Ned Lamont is NOT a 'darling of the netroots' .....

[Stinky The Clown]

He can now be officially called a mainstream candidate. His remarkable lead in the primaries is the underlying truth to that statement (54 to 41, sez Quinnipiac).

Our job, Mr. and Ms. DU, is to kill that 'darling of the netroots' meme right here and now. That meme is being relentlessly pushed in the Three Monkey Media and will be a big deal come October and November.

The words are being VERY carefully crafted into a synonym for the ever derisive 'librul'. Yell all you want about it, but them's the facts. Its code. Its dismissive. It marginalizes not only Lamont, but the 'internet community' ... which in fact is REAL FUCKING PEOPLE who are working hard to counter the very media that is working to kill us as an entity and a constituency.

We are NOT 'the netroots'. We're real people.

And we're pissed.

Ned Lamont is Mainstream

People who use the internet as an organizational tool are REAL PEOPLE.

...... pass it on .....

::::climbing off seltzer water box:::::

[eleny]

1. Getting the nod from the NY Times puts him in another place for sure

[bvar22]

2. Recommended.

The language is very important!
K&R


I am a REAL person.
I AM a citizen.
I use the Internet as a tool!
Lamont is nobody's "Darling", except maybe his wife's.
Husb2Sparkly looks good on a seltzer water box. :)

:dem:

[eridani]

3. And not only that--

--but lots of us do oldfashioned doorbelling and phonebanking as well.

[LynzM]

25. Yup....

I may be one tiny "netroot", but I also put in real human voice hours on the phone and entering data, dammit!

[Tinksrival]

4. Boy, that sure needed to be said!

Ned Lamont didn't bring me to the internet, Lord Pissypants and his destruction of my country did!!
:mad:

[EST]

5. As I recall, Mr. Lamont was not particularly enamored of

taking a bath in the political cesspool. My impression was that it was a "let this cup pass from me" scenario, with Lamont finally taking a "dirty job but somebody's gotta do it" approach out of patriotism and good citizenship.

If it should happen that we get an honest, dedicated public servant out of this whole deal, lucky us!

[MarkDevin]

7. Lamont tried to get other prominent CT Democrats to challenge Lieberman...

...but none of them would do it. Finally, Lamont concluded that if *he* didn't run against Holy Joe, nobody would.

[Sparkly]

6. Yes, I am one of the netroots and proud of it!!! Damn neo-con CLOWNS!!!

(Sorry, couldn't help myself...) :hide:

[MarkDevin]

8. Surely, you aren't referring to 5 or 6 of your fellow DUers?

;)

[Sparkly]

12. Huh?

Well, uh....

[welshTerrier2]

10. if you will pardon the pun ... i think what we're dealing with here are ..

neo-Clowns ...

[Sparkly]

13. Ooooh, the worst kind!!!

The good ones wear wigs. I hear you can tell the neo-Clowns by their baldness....

[ChiciB1]

48. I Posted Below & Asked A Question... Maybe I Can Get A Response Here....

How do the Parties break-down in CT?

I for one live in a District that for the most part elects Repukes. Cruella, to name one. While I think their number only reach about 37%, there are a lot of Independents and they generally seem to vote Repuke. As long as I can remember there has NEVER been a Democratic Representative, but this District is very wealthy. I always add that I'm not one of those "wealthy" types myself. The District DID vote for Clinton in '96 though, but then there was Dole!!

We seem to be getting a little more cohesion within the Democrats here, but by no means do I think we will ever out-number anyone.

So, in CT do the Independents vote more Repuke or Democratic. I am aware of the older poll taken a while back, but things have changed and Clinton was of no help to Lieberman or so it seems.

[welshTerrier2]

9. hmmmmmm ... perplexing to say the least ...

and ================================> here we are ... these StarTrek transporter thingies are waaaaay cool ... i can't believe how easily this "inter-thread transport" works ...

what to do with this theme?

a wee bit conflicted about this ... any movement needs a sense of identity ... it's members need a sense of belonging to a greater whole ... people come together and through all the back and forth emerges some sort of a definition of the group characteristics ... some join in; some drop out as the dominant aspects of the group become more and more sharply defined ...

to quote a well-known parolee, group dynamics - it's a good thing ...

but with identity comes labels and stereotyping and derision and dismissal ... they swoop us all up into one big butterfly net and pack us all into the bus to the fun house ... they try to turn our pursuit of our own identity into a false identity of their choosing ...

and so, do we go about our business and build a movement identity or do we dismiss their efforts to differentiate each of us from mainstream citizens? on one side, we are positive and optimistic and confident that we can set our own goals and establish our own identity; on the other side, perhaps, there is pessimism that they will tie us up in a neat little package and stick an unpleasant moniker on all of us ...

in trying to define us, the MSM also gives us plenty of publicity ... while the labels they use are very negative, they also are suggesting that we have power which converts into actually gaining more power ... so i'm not sure this whole netroots business is all that black and white ... more than open to the idea but i see the MSM coverage as a mixed bag-o-tricks ...

[Stinky The Clown]

11. That's an interesting take on it ... and one on which I will have to chew

I understand what you're saying, and there's solid logic to it.

"Print whatever you want about me. Just be sure to spell my name right."

My own inclination is to simply identify as a Democrat.

And isn't it funny how the right side of the 'netroots' spectrum is never covered derisively?

Walking away ...... chewing .......

[welshTerrier2]

14. "simply identify as a Democrat ..."

well, that's the other little piece of this ...

it's not at all clear to me that the "netroots are crazy liberals" is coming only from the MSM ...

there sure seems to be plenty of that flavor available right here on DU ... some of those people may very well be Democratic Party operatives or at least they're from a less progressive wing of the party than many online posters seem to be ...

they think we're all Nader supporters and Greens and left-wing wackos and "lefty freepers" ...

i guess the point of view i have is that we are a constituency with certain likes and dislikes just like any other constituency ... to suggest we are crazies merely because we support a challenger to an incumbent based on our deeply held beliefs about the war is, well, kind of absurd ... we are not crazies but we are indeed rebelling against the status quo ... and we want to share in the decision making process and we will not have terms dictated to us either by our own party or by the MSM ... imagine that - we're a community of citizens who wants a voice in decisions that affect our lives ... how crazy is that??

as an "underground", i think we are both part of, and separate from, the power structure inside the Democratic Party ... i see us as a community that wants to share in Party decisions and we want our voices to be heard ... by banding together as a community with some sort of common agenda, debatable though it may be, we have built a movement that has strength in numbers ... we are not "mainstream" in that we are oppositional to the status quo ... at least to me, mainstream means the decisions are left to the party elders ... at least that's how it's always been ... the "progressive net community" is a new force ...

it's easy to take the more dismissive view and say that we are and we have always been and that the net is nothing but a communication tool ... well, there's a bit of truth in that ... but the net, as a communication tool, has allowed us to build a powerful movement ... think about it - there's a force in this country against the war ... it's palpable ... you know it's there ... everyone knows it's there ... but you look on the great mall in DC and there are not hundreds of thousands of demonstrators ... the campuses? quiet ... protest has always existed ... it's existed long before there were internets ... but the net is the source of today's movement ... what movement was there 10 or 15 years ago? there was no movement that i could see ...

i sure can see it now ... so can everyone ... i strongly agree with your idea that's it's important to remind others that there are real people, real citizens behind their keyboards ... i think our involvement and awareness, whether our views are right or wrong, should be celebrated ... unlike so many, we are actively learning the issues and participating in democracy ... instead of letting them paint us as extremists, let's make them see us as involved citizens ... but that shouldn't necessitate blending us in with the masses ... we should have our own identity ... we spend hours and hours pecking away at our keyboards trying to reach some sort of consensus as to who we are and what our values are ...

media bias, and perhaps our own party's bias, needs to be corrected ... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't let them see us as a democratic movement for change ...

[Stinky The Clown]

15. Your fingers on your keyboard connected right to my seltzer filled

cranial cavity.

I was put in mind of the Dems way back when. The Scoop Jackson wing of the party vs the George McGovern wing of the party.

McGovern's biggest hits came not from the Republicans but from the Jackson wing of our won party (now known as the Neocons, I might add).

If one favored thin, metallic headwear, one could even conclude that the media's effort to marginalize the 'netroots' in the Lieberman case was coming from the right side of the Dem Party ... or is that the Republican infiltrators of the Democratic Party.

What the HELL am I saying ....... ?

And what the HELL was Al Gore thinking ............. ?

[Sparkly]

16. "blending with the masses" vs. "our own identity"

First, I have to say (as you've no doubt noticed) that I do NOT taste that "flavor" you describe on DU ("crazy liberals")... I find a flavor that makes "crazy liberal" a tasty trend, without much meaning behind it.

About "blending" vs. "identity," I think the netroots' greatest power is in *influencing* the voting populus and getting them out to vote. We can't create change by staying on the outside (a la Nader) pounding on the windows, whining about what SHOULD be, and in the process weakening our own side and thus strengthening our opponents.

I think, strategically, it's better to SHUN the "wacko, crazy, netroots, radical, fringe" labels they want to put on us. There's a reason they want to put those labels on us (or else they wouldn't make such an effort to do it)! I would rather see our party say, "WE are the mainstream! THEY are the extremist whackos!" And I truly, honestly, believe that is true, when you get down to the issues themselves.

Our power is about going up against the machinery, as I see it. We can't change the politicians, except by changing the electorate.

[welshTerrier2]

17. hmmmm ... interesting twists ...

i am 100% in agreement that we should SHUN their negative labels ... the ones i agree are negative (from your list) are "wacko, crazy, radical and fringe" ... but "netroots", i'm not so sure ... i think of the "netroots" as very active, online citizens who are participating in their democracy ...

my greater point, and it sounds like you're in agreement if i'm correctly interpreting what you wrote, is that we are SEPARATE from them ... i got this from your statement "WE are the mainstream! THEY are the extremist whackos!" ... this seems to put us into our own group ...

the interest twist you provided was in suggesting, if this was your point, that we are the majority and that they are the fringe ...

i guess i'm struggling with the term mainstream ... i see mainstream as the status quo ... it's where "most are at"; it is not where we hope to go ... i see people involved in progressive politics as change agents ... we are trying to change the status quo, where most have settled, to something else ... i see us as leaders or at least trying to be leaders ... i see the mainstream as the flock we are trying to lead ... so i guess my point is that i don't see us as mainstream because i am not at all sure we have yet become the majority or that the majority has yet signed on to our views ... perhaps much of this gets all entangled in the definitions ...

i wish i could be clearer in writing this ... i'm not sure i responded directly to the points you made ...

you wrote: "I think the netroots' greatest power is in *influencing* the voting populus and getting them out to vote."

i think that may be only part of the equation ... to be sure, people contact and get out the vote efforts and even voter education are critically important ... at some point, voters vote and if we are to have any impact we damned well better be interacting with them before they do ... so, no disagreement there ... but what is it we're saying to them? for some, it is all about supporting a party or supporting a candidate ... important? of course it is ...

but i also think it's very important to define our views on the issues ... what are we passionate about? who are we? what are our values? to me, this has to occur before we go around licking envelopes and making phone calls ... i want to be part of a movement that future candidates can see ... if they know we're out here and they know what we believe, future candidates may see a constituency that will support them if they become candidates ... if we are only envelope lickers, it's less clear what kinds of candidates jump in ...

so, for me, the first job of the net is a definition of who we are and what world we envision ... to be honest, i think this is the greatest source of conflict and misunderstanding on DU ... it's not so much left versus center; the bigger divide is between "party soldiers" and issues warriors ... i'm an issues warrior ... when insulted, i call the "party soldiers" cheerleaders ... i couldn't be more insulting ... and they call me a lefty wacko or whatever ... it's too bad there's not more bandwidth for tolerance ... let the architects get busy with their architecting; let the carpenters get busy with their hammers ... both have a role to play ...

[Sparkly]

18. On issues, I truly believe Democrats ARE "the mainstream"

and polls show that.

On issues, time and again, the majority is with our party. Yet SOME wedge or another narrows the gap (and there's no doubt in my mind, frankly, that the GOP messes with the voting process from there -- so we need a LARGE margin in pre-election polls to keep them from these "surprises").

To me, the differences between the Democratic and Republican parties have never been so enormous. On social, economic, and foreign policy issues, the platforms are miles apart. What happens is that the GOP couches their terms to meet the Democratic viewpoint -- witness Bush embracing Gore's and Kerry's positions, or backing down from his own "base" position (saying he couldn't do anything about abortion anyway so not to worry, saying he backed the assault weapons ban, etc.).

Polls in 2000 STRONGLY favored Gore on issues. Attaching names to the polls, they equalled out. It's about the stupid lies and machinery that persuades people to vote against their own views and interests -- it's not about their views and interests. It's not about the issues themselves. (Which is why I say over and over again, we do NOT need to bend one inch in Democratic positions on the issues in an effort to "cater" to the supposed rightwing "mainstream"!!)

The "flock," as you put it, is with us. We just need them to get over the hurdles the GOP throws in their faces, and vote Democratic.

The differences are so huge, and so important, they are WELL worth licking envelopes to me. I see myself as a "party soldier" BECAUSE I am an "issues warrior" and realistically, there IS no other way for my issues to have any hope at all, in my daughter's lifetime. And, as I said, I see advancing issues as a grassroots effort, not a "nag at the politicians" effort. They just do what their constituents want them to, go where the money is, barter across the aisle and make deals for funding... The stronger the support from their constituents for liberal action, the more free they are to take such action, stand up, and speak out. (Thus many of the politicians we admire are able to do what they do because of the people they represent.)

(Which is also why I do not view political "experience" in office as "President School," but rather, as on DUer put it, "where they get their strings attached." Nothing against our elected Democrats in office in general, but...)

[welshTerrier2]

23. "The "flock," as you put it, is with us."

you stated: "To me, the differences between the Democratic and Republican parties have never been so enormous." ... i could not possibly agree more ... I have remained a Democrat, thus far, primarily because of that very fact ... arguments that there are no differences between the parties are absurd ...

you also stated: "The "flock," as you put it, is with us.

here, our views part company ... you may feel a sense of identification with "the flock" ... i do not ... there are very critical changes i think our country needs and I do not believe the Democratic Party mainstream reflects these changes or shares much of the vision for change that I have ... it certainly does NOT make me right ...

if you feel the flock is with you than you must feel that you are with the flock as well ... you're "on the same page" on most issues ... i am on the same page on many issues but the differences i have, and i suspect many progressives have, are also very real ... it's not a binary thing ... it's not "you're either with us or against us" ... i hate republicans ... it almost inconceivable to me that anyone would vote for these jackasses ... look what they've done to our world ...

but that doesn't mean i feel represented in the Democratic Party ... many of the things i feel most passionately about are virtually ignored by elite Democrats ... here's a link to a post I made (a satirical post) about what would change if Democrats came back into power: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2740194&mesg_id=2740509

the point isn't to argue the merits of what i wrote in that post; the point is to highlight that the kinds of changes i think are necessary are not often heard from "the flock" ... does this mean i don't lick stamps and make phone calls? no, it doesn't mean that at all ... but I also think it's important to build, perhaps on the net, a movement around the values I have and to fight for more representation within the Democratic Party ... and as this movement for change gains strength, through sound arguments, through greater exposure, and through sheer numbers, we will become a stronger political force for change ... we will attract candidates who share our views ... and real change will then be possible ...

i just can't emphasize enough that there seems to be two very different kinds of posters on DU ... it seems to me that you and I may reflect some of the divisions we see so often ... it is truly unfortunate that DU is NOT able to blend these differences into a more powerful political force ... we spend most of our timing just screaming back and forth over the fence ... not only don't we build any kind of strength through unity, but we seem completely unable to even understand each other ... how pathetic is that?

one group on DU sees themselves as part of the flock; the other sees themselves as outside the flock but hoping to inform the flock about their values ... one group is all about beating republicans; the other group is all about asking more from Democrats ... the "beating republicans" group sees themselves as "pragmatic" ... they are the real foot soldiers and are not "head in the clouds" impractical like those "self-proclaimed visionaries" ... the "change the party" group sees themselves as strongly opposed to republicans but think the Democratic Party is selling out a better vision just to get elected ... each group accuses the other of "hurting the cause" ... it's all crap ... all of it ...

the "right" process is to realize that there is a very large group of Democrats who do NOT feel they are part of the flock ... some of us feel very alienated and unrepresented ... the good news is most of us are still Democrats ... we're still talking and working within the party ... it's not too late to make the party more inclusive ... unfortunately, i see almost no progress to closing the divide ... maybe it's not possible to close it at all ... and i can't ignore the tens of millions of former Democrats who no longer even vote ... something is very wrong here ... the Democratic Party bills itself as a big tent ... it may be but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be even larger ... more and more of us are outside the flock ...

[Zodiak]

49. An excellent post, Welshterrier

This is exactly how I see the "Netroots". We are an issue-driven community that serves as an informational filter in an age when the media filter is so tight that only crap gets through. On the left, we are mostly allied against Bush as a unifying theme...that binds us all. We started out just complaning and saving our sanity by finding other voices in the wilderness , but then we started collecting information and trying our hand at grassroots politics, and we became a political force.

We are not known for our numbers. What we are known for is our loudness, our correctness, and our passion. We have taken stubles, but now we are poised to become a true force nationally, at least within the party.

If they want to call Lamont the "darling of the Netroots", and Lamont wins the primary, we are going to become even more of a force. It will not be from promotion from the media; it will be from people seeing it for themselves. That is a good thing for us, democracy, the Democratic party, and the general marketplace of ideas. If LAmont loses in the general election to Leiberman, I do not believe that our positiojn will change. We will still be a force, but not as powerful as we could be.

DU has an amazing consensus if one pays attention to the results of polls around here (as skewed as some of these polls are). We are roughly 80% in agreement on just about every issue. We have our share of leftie and rightie knee-jerkers and yes-men, but we do manage to provide a good deal of information and arrive at consensus, which translates to collective action (even if only 10% of us "do stuff").

Isn;t that what the marketplace of ideas is all about?

[Dr Fate]

19. Yeah- "Netroots"- is that a Lord of the Rings character or something?

What is this net-roots business? I thought all kinds of people of all stripes used the internet these days- what is the big deal?

Great post- K & R

[wildeyed]

20. Yeah.

I am a minivan driving, stay-at-home mom, not the wacko, out-of-the mainstream radical that they want to paint me as.

I have serious concerns about this country. The only reason I went online is because my concerns are not being acknowledged or addressed the media or by my own party. So I take action through other avenues and I find information in other places. Why is this so hard for them to understand?

[wyldwolf]

21. I have to disagree

He can be a "darling of the netroots" and still be a mainstream candidate.

Howard Dean. Jim Webb.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a world where labels don't exist. There is a "netroots," and it is a segment of activists who do their activism mostly via the internet.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. With all due respect, you missed the point of my post

The point was how the media and the right are comspiring to turn the term 'netroots' and all its synonyms into a derisive, dismissive term, much as they did years ago with 'librul'.

[Dr Fate]

28. Are you "netroots?"- because I see you on the internet as much as anyone.

????

[wyldwolf]

29. the term is applied to those who do activism on the internet

Netroots is a term describing populist campaigns and movements sparked, promoted and conducted over the Internet. Such movements are typically generated from within the blogosphere, the democratic and user-created media segment composed of bloggers. The term netroots is derived from grassroots, itself a word used to describe a political or social movement stemming from the efforts of ordinary people rather than established leaders.


I post on DU for the pure pleasure of it.

[Dr Fate]

32. You once called us the "Key board warrior brigade" as well.

I suppose that is used only for Lamont supporters who type on key boards though.

I think everyone who posts here gets pleasure out of it. That is not the issue.

The point I'm making is I think it's funny when DLC & Lieberman people sit behind their keyboards and accuse others of "sitting behind their key boards." The irony seems to escape some folks.

If you are trying to suggest that Lamont supporters never hit the streets, well his numbers and rally attendance in Conneticut just dont reflect that.

If anyone is not hitting the streets, its the DLC and the disorgnized Lieberman GOTV effort-

I've never heard of the DLC doing much or any phone banking, canvassing, etc. Seems all they do is draft long winded position papers with the misguided hope that swing-voters will actually sit down & read them.

[wyldwolf]

33. I have and I will again

---snip of typical keyboard warrior brigade revolutionary rhetoric------

[Name removed]

34. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr Fate]

45. Because name calling is all you seem to have- we understand. n/t

n/t

[wyldwolf]

46. like I said, I won't chase you from subject to subject everytime...

..you lose ground on one.

[cmkramer]

24. just keep telling yourself that

it's still a lie.

The net was his Goebbels and their followers were his stormtroopers.

He's a candidate for the fringe nutters.

[LynzM]

26. Yeah, obviously 40% of CT citizens polled are fringe nutters.

Or something. I've seen many posts from you today in this vein. What do you have so personally against Lamont, and his ability to build up a strong showing of support and volunteer base, who believe in his message?

[Stinky The Clown]

35. Self Delete

[welshTerrier2]

36. i see your self-delete and raise you a self-delete ...

i think the poster you responded to with this reply was directing her comments to another poster and not to the OP ...

or have i kept my 22,414 error-a-day streak intact?

[LynzM]

38. No, I think you got it figured out :)

:hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

39. I DID .... and I'm mortified .....

Whew .... good tool, that edit button .... and a self delete!

[LynzM]

37. Dude, I was replying to the guy who called us Nazis

You know, us volunteers for the Lamont campaign? :hi: Obviously, we're all eeee-vil.

I'm on your side. Chill. :)

On edit: Saw the self-delete. :rofl: <--- gotta love the internets, huh?

Friends? (And yeah, I'm female. Skirts. Only in the summer!)

[Stinky The Clown]

40. Mea Culpa. Mea Maxima Culpa!

Man, you guys are FAST to notice when clowns go bad! :)

I DID misread your post. I thought you were responding to the OP, not the person to whom you actually DID reply.

But damn, if ya read it before I kiled it, ya gotta admit that was one good flame I wrote! :)

[welshTerrier2]

41. fast? pas du tout!!

i'm using highly specialized auto-clown software ... you never had a chance ...

[LynzM]

42. LOL, yeah, I read it!

And here's me, all :wtf: until I figured out that you thought I was calling *you* out! It was a good flame; remind me not to piss you off for real! :rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

43. I **REALLY** feel ......

:blush: :blush: :blush:

I'm glad we can laugh about it. :hi:

[LynzM]

44. No worries, dude!

Stuff happens... personally, I was way more laughing than offended! *grin*

:hi:

[welshTerrier2]

27. "fringe nutters"

how can Mr. Lieberman lose to a "fringe"? doesn't it take a majority, or at least a plurality to win?

Mr. Lieberman has frequently voted differently than many of his own Democratic colleagues in the Senate ... it would seem that he is the one on the "fringe" ... it would also seem that he is toast ...

or are you deceiving yourself into believing the party's right-wing will rise from the ashes to rescue him? if so, meet me back here next Tuesday night under the big clock ... i'll be the one applauding for Connecticut's Democrats who made the right choice ... i'll recognize you because you'll be the one calling that majority "fringe nutters" ... see you then ...

[Dr Fate]

30. Comparing Democrats to Nazis? Sounds like what Rush Limbaugh says...

And Bill O'Reilly always references the Democratic media (what little there is) to Goebbels.

You have to admit that your rhetoric is similar to those guys.

Calling people at DU "Nazis" is probably against the rules to boot.

I'm hitting "Alert."

[calico1]

31. You've really got those right wing, Rovian talking points down!

By the way, what part of CT are you from?

[ChiciB1]

47. Check This Out.... Don't Know If You Want To Name It "Netroots"

I don't, but this is something WE can do to help Lamont out. And I'm not sure how many here support MoveOn.org that much, but they are trying to help him out. I recently went to a local meeting sponsored by MoveOn with a phone hook-up that Barack Obama spoke to supporters, asking them to sign up to make phone calls for the Democratic Party. I signed up to make calls myself because it's better than doing NOTHING!

http://political.moveon.org/phone/volunteer/pv.html?id=8339-5874639-sbQJ7UIedBYhYvun6DzbLQ&t=1

I do have a question though.... does anyone know the specific break-down of Republican, Democrats & Independents. Where I live we have many Independents, and they can be counted on to vote Repuke for the most part. But then I live in Cruella's District and the county is a wealthy one. However, I'm NOT one of those wealthy people. Obviously!

[MrBenchley]

50. LOL! And if you clap your hands, Tinker Belle will live!

"His remarkable lead in the primaries is the underlying truth to that statement "
His remarkable lead is the result of the far left adopting swift boat tactics.

[Stinky The Clown]

51. Bitter pill for you to swallow?

Go post a black face cartoon or something.

You'll feel better.

And as in the other thread ... you can have the last word ..... its a good substitute for whatever you're lacking.

[MrBenchley]

52. No, a source of endless amusement

"Go post a black face cartoon "
I leave that to the "progressive" nutroots...who of course, are no more liberal than they are mint-flavored....