Let's make this REAL clear: Being Gay does NOT make one a Pedophile

[Stinky The Clown]

The two issues are COMPLETELY unrelated.

The Republics will be playing this card over and over and over and over.

They are wrong.

[newsguyatl]

1. NOR does being attracted to 16/17 year old guys

a predator, maybe, a pedophile? no.

[CBGLuthier]

8. Oh good luck with that argument

I just threw away a huge post arguing the same point.

Give it up, half of DU is convinced they are right in their incorrect definition. And if you argue hard enough, they will accuse YOU of being a pedophile.

I know, I fought that battle already and ran away bloodied by overwhelming ignorance.

[newsguyatl]

23. no need to convince them, it's the truth

if they wanna keep usin' the word "pedophile" to describe him, so be it.

but they're wrong.
period.

[Teaser]

10. it is a disorder, though

see below.

[INDIA]

20. That's not a bad argument...

As a 23 yo male, can I honestly say I only thought the Olsen Twins/Hillary Duff were attractive the day they turned 18? Not likely.

Although I wasn't sending them perverted IMs either.

[acmavm]

2. The repubs are telling everyone over and over that we are winning in

Iraq and Afganistan.

We know that they lie. About everything.

[KyndCulture]

3. Neither does being molested.

75% of the people I know were molested...

[Kutjara]

4. Exactly. Succinctly put.

The Pugs are spinning like hell to equate the two. Even Foley's latest 'revelation' about his childhood abuse at the hands of a priest only underscores the equation between paedophilia and homosexuality. They'll try to slip this meme into any discussion about Foley, until the sheep firmly believe it.

[greyl]

5. True, plus Foley isn't a pedophile

as far as we know. Pedophilia involves prepubescents.

[Teaser]

9. He's an ephebophile

which is the disorder of being attracted primarily to adolescents.

[katsy]

15. No no no...

you mean he's a scum swilling madrephucker amoral corrupt lying sleazy cowardly incompetent thieving elitist whore evil republican. Did I leave something out?

There's therapy for ephebophiles. There's only one cure for pukes... and I can't say it here.

[Catchawave]

11. wiki sez :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Pedophilia or paedophilia (see spelling differences) is the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent or peripubescent children. Persons with this attraction are called pedophiles.

In contrast to the generally accepted medical definition, the term pedophile is also used colloquially to denote significantly older adults who are sexually attracted to adolescents below the local age of consent<1>, as well as those who have sexually abused a child.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. congressional pages = peripubescent.

[slackmaster]

22. Splitting hairs

He is sexually aroused by people who are too young.

[greyl]

25. Yeah, and so is brain surgery. nt

[xchrom]

6. ...

:applause:

republicks will of course do just that -- however.

[katsy]

7. I don't think that being molested by a priest...

makes one gay either.

:shrug:

[Kutjara]

12. Probably much more likely to have the opposite effect.

I think being molested by some big sweaty priestly pervert like the ones I remember from my schooldays would be the best 'cure' for homosexuality imaginable.

Actually, it's probably proof positive that homosexuality isn't a 'choice.' If you can still be gay after that, it's in your bones.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. Neither having been a victim of priest abuse and not being gay .......

I can only guess.

My guess would be ..... nope.

What I *can* imagine is that being abused by anyone can fuck up the victim for life. How it fucks up the victim probably varies from victim to victim, and **might** include 'gay activity' or a propensity to prey on children. But engaging in 'gay activity' for a pathological problem is actually not being gay either.

[katsy]

16. by phucked up...

the chances would be they'd become a puke?

[tkmorris]

17. Ummm, yeah

You know this really ought to be very high on the list of Things That Should Not Need To Be Said.

There really isn't anyone here at DU that thinks otherwise is there? I mean, I know there are Repubs that don't get that, but they're all mad as hatters anyway.

[Auntie Bush]

18. Hey Stinky!

Why don't you run against the professional Clown...Kenneth Kahn? lol

I'd vote for you and I bet you would win! Run Stinky run!

Sorry for the hijack...couldn't resist.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. That's my bastard step cousin

Kenny the Clown



Running for mayor of Alameda, California.

[MrCoffee]

19. Can we not get out of our own way for five lousy weeks?

Because the second some idiot Rep gets up to defend the finer points of the clinical definition of pedephilia, that's the ballgame.

Five short weeks. Can we not shoot ourselves in the foot for that long?


Probably not, but it was worth a shot.

[slackmaster]

26. MrCoffee, you are my Short-Duration Personal Savior for the day

Thank you.

[MrCoffee]

31. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[Dr Fate]

34. Thank you. Let the outed REPUBLICAN hypocrites split those hairs.

At least for the next five weeks, that is.

Once elected, the good DEMS will continue to support civil rights & equality.

[MrCoffee]

35. That's the part that I really don't understand at all...

It's like you have to prove your Dem Cred on gay rights and so carefully couch your language that by the time we're ready to attack these fucking swine we spun so hard we sound like we're coddling pedophiles.
*please read that sentence carefully before you burn me at the stake*

What are the Democrats going to do once they get into office, repeal the Civil Rights Act? Are they going to pass the marriage amendment bullshit, or even let it get anywhere near the floor? Are they going to start bashing gays all of a sudden?

This is electioneering. This is all-out war. If you think the Repukes are treating this as anything other than a bar fight, you are out of your mind. In a bar fight, you fight with the weapons at hand.

[Zhade]

45. Well, we got DOMA under Clinton - even Wellstone, to his ultimate regret..

...voted for that bigoted legislation.

And of course, few elected Dems will stand up for our inherent right to marry someone we love, as witnessed by even the 2004 candidate not favoring 'gay' - which is to say, the equal right to - marriage.

So you tell me how solid those pro-GLBT credentials are across the board regarding the Democratic party.

(That said, no one should DEFEND Foley. But being accurate in stating the fucking scumbag predator does not fit the legal or medical definition of pedophilia isn't defending him.)

[JerseygirlCT]

24. I find myself screaming at the television

More of their purposeful lying to suit their agenda. More hate toward gays and lesbians. More children exposed to abuse because we're all so busy looking for that gay boogieman that we don't see the nice young father next door as a molester.

More excuses for bigots to revel in their bigotry.

It's sickening, it really is.

[slackmaster]

27. I recommend turning the sonofabitch off

Try it.

[JerseygirlCT]

30. LOL. Yes, it is a bad habit. nt

[Zhade]

44. Ignoring the lies won't stop them from being told.

NT!

[Tom Rinaldo]

28. The guy who shot and killed the Amish Girls

Was a straight married self identified Christian who invaded their school house with the specific intent of sexually molesting them. The two news events broke at roughly the same time. I would love to see that pointed out on the news some time when one of these rightest anti-gay asshole Republicans tries to link Foley's behavior to his sexual orientation.

[Zhade]

29. Wait - you actually have to say that HERE?

WTF, are some DUers actually equating the two?

[Stinky The Clown]

32. Not gunna call names .......

..... but look around .......

[Dr Fate]

33. No- lets make THIS clear- Foley is hypocritical, gay, sexual predator.

Let the GOP/media split hairs over the finer points of what the majority of society at large (AKA swingvoters) sees as deviant sexual behavior.

Why do Democrats need to craft any defenses or excuses for creeps like Foley, one way or the other?

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Some arguments are worth making and mean something .... some not so much

For example ..... in this issue ......

Some here wre trying to make the distinction that a 'pedophile', by definition, is one concerned only with prepubescent kids and that since this kid was 16-ish, it wasn't child predation. While technically true, it was a distinction without practical (and ****surely**** without political) difference ****in this case****. This is said in view of these essential facts: 50+ congressman, teenage boy victim. It doesn't matter what you call what, this will be seen as a 'crime' against a kid.

The conflation of being gay and being a child predator, however, is a FAR different issue. That meme cannot be allowed to stand.

[Dr Fate]

37. Let's make that argument after November- from the seat of power.

Right now our main focus need to be Republican hypocrisy, lies, secrets and cover-ups.

Instead of "Stop picking on Foley becuase he is gay" as a theme, for now we need to say "Foley is a hypocrite- what ELSE is the GOP congress covering up? If they lie & cover up for child-molesters, then they will lie about & cover up Iraq, 9/11, etc."

FOCUS.

[Stinky The Clown]

38. I wish the 'debate' between Shrum and Buchanon on Tweety's show yesterday

was on Youtube or someplace else. Buchanon went off on this these (gay as pedophile) and Shrum drop a TON of shit right on his head. Shrum was actually very good (for a change). He never lost his essential point about Foley (hypocrisy, coverup, and all the rest), but also NEVER let that wrong headed gay=pedophile meme stand unanswered.

If you find that clip, watch it. You'll see what I mean.

[Dr Fate]

39. The FOCUS should be on FOLEY&cover ups, not Gay folks in general.

We will have plenty of time to stick up for civil rights & equality IF we win in November.

FOCUS.

I dont see how GOP apologists tying Foley's homosexuality to his penchant for teen-boys helps him or his pals who covered for him what-so-ever. If this is indeed a GOP/media strategy, it is misguided and it wont work.

FOCUS.

[dback]

51. Right on!

I've also been squeamish about the Right's conflating pedophilia with homosexuality. For Foley, they may indeed be mixed up in some awful way, if he was at one time a gay young man who was molested by a priest--he may have enjoyed the sex, yet still felt tremendous violation, shame, etc. This would then set up his pattern of becoming someone who achieves sexual satisfaction by replaying--but reversing--the dynamic.

Yes, he abused his power. Yes, his actions were not OK. Yes, he should be appropriately punished. However, finding someone just under 18 attractive is not illegal--ACTING on it is.

If Foley has a long-term mature partner, he doesn't seem to fit the pattern of someone who's attracted exclusively to adolescents or children. He would thus be a gay man who engaged in inappropriately intimate actions that were an abuse of power with a minor. He would not necessarily be "sick" "deranged" or other adjectives being tossed around. This is not Michael Jackson we're talking about.

No, I'm not making excuses for him--he should be punished to the full extent of the law for his actions. However, as a gay man, I will say that words and definitions have been used as weapons against me and people like me for a long time, so I'm also a little hypersensitive about certain adjectives being used to define males who are sexually attracted to other males (momentarily leaving the age issue out of it).

However, I also agree that we are indeed splitting hairs and turning this into a Clintonesque definition of "is." We can avoid the right's homophobic language and conflating homosexuality with pedophilia by sticking to the following:

--Foley abused his power and authority by sending inappropriate messages to underage people, and encouraging inappropriate relationships with minors. He should be punished accordingly.

--the Republican leadership who sat on this information despite protests from unhappy recipients of said attention should also be appropriately punished.

I would thus like to differentiate between what people ARE (gay) vs. what they DO (encourage inappropriate relationships with minors). But only for our intellectual pursuits; discussing it with the media, the world, etc., I think we should stick with the previous statements, re: crime and punishment.

[Zhade]

46. Excuse me?

Being gay is NOT 'deviant sexual behavior'. Why do you use the word as if it equates to hypocrisy and sexually predatory actions?

Are you actually suggesting we abandon people LIKE ME to the ignorance of the citizenry in the interest of political expediency?

You could easily leave the word gay out of your subject line and make your case. I am disgusted that you are using fellow DUers' sexual orientation as a slur.

I asked upthread about the dedication of the party to its GLBT supporters. Clearly, with hateful rhetoric like yours that puts being gay on the same level of a sexual predator, I was right to be worried.

I am extremely disappointed to see you fall into this bigotry.

[The Count]

40. Randi Rhodes drumming this on her show

Giving numbers: 99% of girl molestations are by men
98% of boy molestations - also men

Child molestation= craving for power, like rape

[Scriptor Ignotus]

41. i don't think they're playing a card

I just think they're ignorant homophobes who don't understand the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.

Seriously, I heard a conservative on NPR today with Terry Gross (forget the name but I guess I could find it) who said homosexuals are "obsessed" with sex, apparently more so than heteros. He cited unspecified scientific studies to support this.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. That's such bullshit ..... almost **everyone** is 'obsessed' with sex

Its a high human need .... right up there with self preservation is procreation (the animal need in us) manifested as sex (the cognitive need in us).

I would bet near anythng that 80% or more of men think about sex in one form or another - even if just a passing admiration for a nice set of tits or a nice 'package' in another man - at ***least*** once an hour. I don't know what the frequency of this would be in women, but I bet its nearly as high.

[terrya]

42. Thank you.

Apparently, after hammering that point over and over and over and over and over and fucking over again, some people are STILL not getting that. Said people are just too stupid to live, quite frankly.

[MissWaverly]

47. Being gay doesn't make you a moron in the Congress either

I thought I would point that out!

[Stinky The Clown]

48. How about this ...... ?

Being gay doesn't make you anything but ....... gay.

[Zhade]

49. Not according to some on this thread.

:grr:

[MissWaverly]

50. yup, that says it all

:-), But I wish I knew the cause for moronitis in the Congress!