"Seniors the most selfish" Steve Moore Club for Growth

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

"I can say this because I'm not an elected official: the most selfish group in America today is senior citizens. Their demands on Washington are: 'Give us more and more and more.' They have become the new welfare state, and given the size and political clout of this constituency, it's very dangerous. One of the biggest myths in politics today is this idea that grandparents care about their grandkids. What they really care about is that that Social Security check and those Medicare payments are made on a timely basis."

I came across this quote from Steve Moore one of the founders of the Club for Growth while researching the "Club" for an LTTE about the backers of the local republican. This "club" has been airing commercials with misrepresentations and outright lies about our local candidate and I wanted to level the playing field a bit with a LTTE. However, after coming across this little quote, I think more should be made about this organization and it's founders. But, what? I've thought about sending it to the campaign of our local fighting dem or possibly to some of the other groups running ads in his support. Any suggestions?

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. In Florida, I haven't had good experiences, especially in private

H.O.A. situations. They don't want to spend a penny maintaining the common grounds, for example, so the predators in the community steal them. Yet they don't understand why people in the community don't come running to clean up their yards after a hurricane hits.

[liberalhistorian]

2. That's truly disgusting. I mean,

how DARE those eeeeeevil old people attempt to get back from the sytem what they paid into it during all those long years of hard work, years that made up the bulk of their lives. They should all just get up from their wheelchairs and condo balconies and spend the rest of their lives in the same hard work they spent forty or fifty or more years doing in order to get their SS and Medicare. How DARE they expect any rewards after a lifetime of hard work and sacrifice! I mean, the nerve of some people! :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :mad:

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. What's lacking is leadership and self-sacrifice.

I was in one H.O.A., where the board was completely controlled by seniors and things went swimmingly well. They organized Easter Hunts for the kids and did things for the older citizens. But, I suspect they could afford to be kind, because the roads were public and the Association membership was not mandatory.

[liberalhistorian]

14. Self-sacrifice?

Excuse me, but most of them (not the born-rich, of course, but I'm not talking about them) HAVE sacrificed a great deal and worked very hard for forty or fifty years. They've earned their reward.

However, I definitely agree when it comes to their refusal to pass any school levies, that drives me absolutely batty. Who do they think helped pay for THEIR children's schooling and who do they think pays into the current SS and Medicare they're receiving?

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. I know that good seniors abound in this country, but, sadly, I know

few, personally. The sad truth is that the higher I moved up the social scale, the harsher, more selfish people I encountered of all ages. The poorer the community, the better that people reached out to help each other. The higher income community was more self-sufficient as well as self-interested to downright greedy.

I know I'm generalizing and there are exceptions everywhere, but when I sit down and actually have conversations with some seniors, what I find out is disheartening. Two men, for example, have told me in separate conversations things that are in line with the original thread. One, who is filthy rich, said that he doesn't care to leave things to his kids or grandkids, and that he doesn't even plan to buy funeral services for himself, because, why does he care what happens to him after he dies? Let it be someone else's problem. The other guy, who was a typical Republican who is now realizing that Global Warming is real, reached the conclusion, what does it matter anyways, since he'll be dead when it all starts to fall apart. It's like people have lost their sense of community. They understand real estate, but not community. I'm afraid that's the true legacy of the trickle down economy.

[irislake]

18. As an ex-welfare worker

I can tell you that poor people are pretty generous and willing to share what little they have. Greed seems to be mainly an affliction of the very rich. But of course lots of them are generous. Would be interesting to know if affluent and rich Democrats are more generous than Republicans. I think the answer to that is kinda obvious.

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. Welcome to DU.

I bet you're right, for the most part. But, I did community activism at one time for a P.A.C. and was given a sheet, that they were entitled to have, that breaks down the homeowners by political party. I know the political party of every member on this street, or did as of about five years ago. I'm sorry to tell you that even the Democrats were self-interested. It might have to do with the underpinings of corruption that existed at the top levels of the Association. Those who were abusing the system were either Republican or Independent. Those that fought them off and tried to restore balance were Democrats and Independents, but the Democratic allies held onto their pocketbooks tightly, and most moved out instead of stay in a bad community. I'm stuck here until my kid graduates from high school, so it's a very difficult situation. I see it all developing before my eyes. It's all about real estate, and nothing to do about building the kind of trust that binds a community.

[Warpy]

11. It doesn't dawn on fools like Moore until they're over 50

and they aint rich yet.

Nobody under 40 much likes social security, it's a drain on often meager pay. However, it's the only thing that is OURS, an program to insure us against extreme poverty when we get too old to work.

[Rosemary2205]

28. Actually

Most seniors will get back in SS what they put in in a mere 5 years on SS. And very few of them paid anything at all into medicare. These programs were set up to insure the most "at risk" seniors had some minimal form of income and healthcare. Do we really need to be paying for Warren Buffett's healthcare? Does he really "have it coming"? I don't think so.

[liberalhistorian]

32. That simply isn't true that they didn't pay

into Medicare, everyone pays the Medicare tax beginning with their first paycheck. And people like Warren Buffet have their own healthcare, frankly, they don't rely on Medicare and they don't often use it.

And after working hard for forty or more years, I think they've earned their rewards. I look at my parents and how hard they worked and they deserve every single penny they're getting, in SS and Medicare.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

4. We have a lot of retirees here

Most of them military retired and I'm sure they would be outraged to hear of this quote. It truly disgusted me. This Club for Growth's main agenda is social security privatization, very much an anti-tax group which most people around here are...anti-tax. But, this is extreme and quite frankly outrageuous. I just need to find the best venue to get the word out and fast!

[NaturalHigh]

5. What a jackass.

[Xipe Totec]

6. I wish you a very long life,

that you may one day see the world from their perspective.

[Lindacooks]

13. I'll NEVER live long enough to be that selfish. NEVER.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

7. Check into it

I bet your own local candidates are supported by these Wall Street hacks lookin to cash in on SS privatization too. They have their hands in many campaigns.

[charlyvi]

8. Do you know that Steven Moore is no longer with CFG?

The recent resignation of the president of one of the nation's most successful conservative political groups, the Club for Growth, was part of a broader power struggle over the organization's governance and its stance on policy issues, according to sources inside and outside the group.

The Club for Growth announced last month that its president, Stephen Moore, was leaving to start a new organization with a similar outlook, the Free Enterprise Fund. The club's statements about the change, including a letter from Mr. Moore, portrayed the transition as an amicable "passing the torch" from Mr. Moore to the new president, Patrick Toomey.

However, sources familiar with the inner workings of the group said Mr. Moore's departure followed heated disagreements with the club's four-person board of directors...

http://www.nysun.com/article/8587

It's an awful group---really radical right wing, but I don't want you to have your facts wrong in your LTTE.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

9. Thanks for the info

It's been a real pain to find out info on this group.

[Doremus]

27. The Club for Growth guy was on Bill Maher last week.

What a slimy sack of shite. Barney Frank was brilliant, pinning him down again and again, every time the asshat lied and then tried to change the subject.

I understand why people like that crave power and control, but the burning question is why do people fall under their spell? The first sentence out of his mouth was enough to know he was pure slime.

[papau]

10. "Rich and Corporate the most selfish" says Papau - "They think luck of

birth, and luck in life are not the major reason they are wealthy. They believe their wealth came to them solely based on merit and their working harder than the next person. Given others must have chosen to not work hard, their starvation is not their problem and they should not be expected to give back anything. If they destroyed lives on their way up the latter, or while being near the top of the ladder by reason of birth and legacy, that is not their problem, nor is it the government's problem.

Because if it was their problem people would expect a great deal more than 10% of the income of the rich donated to charity each year. If it was the governments problem, people would expect the government to hit the rich with high taxes so as to fund programs for the poor - perhaps with an annual 10% asset tax on assets over $10 million.

By the way, it is impolite to point out that while many, many folks are smarter than today's rich and have worker harder than today's rich, they ended up with very little by way of assets at the end of life. Pointing this out would imply that the success of the rich had a "luck" component, and the story line that must not be challenged is "self-made man who was smarter and worked harder than the rest".

[SharonAnn]

15. Corporations used to pay 50% of taxes, now it's less than 20%.

WHo's selfish?

CEO pay up more than 1,000% and going up. Backdating stock options, off-shoring jobs to raise their bonuses.

Who's selfish?

[LiberalFighter]

19. Corporations pay taxes.... Bullshit

Think about it...

Is the money I pay for merchandise from a business/corporation entirely for the labor to produce the item and the cost of the raw goods? Does the money to pay for federal, state, local taxes come from a mysterious source that appears to pay for those taxes?

So in effect it is the consumer of goods and services that pays the taxes for the business.

[papau]

21. Corporations do pay taxes- not consumers - and at less than a 10% rate

more many many large corporations.

First I started up and was the head of Sun Life Insurances of Canada's US Tax Department, which controlled State, local, Federal, and our contribution to reducing international taxes.

I also advised over my career on how to use corporations and investments to remove or reduce the tax paid by the rich.

The rich do not pay a high tax rate. Most of the income is investment income that is hidden, and that which is not hidden is barely taxed because the rich have sold the canard that they would not invest if investment earnings were not taxed at a much reduced tax rate compared to wage earnings.

The rich own corporations, and drain them of cash via perks that are never redefined as income, plus income directed to private corporations that do not pay any tax. Earnings in any country can be moved to another, or dumped in the sea, via various very legal actions - the most evil - to me - being IRS Code 482 transfer pricing where all value added and therefore open to taxation just happens to occur in areas of the world with no tax or no tax enforcement.

The end result is the income of the rich is barely taxed. And the price in the market place is set by competition, not a profit percentage applied to a sum of costs that include expected taxes to pay. The small business tax burden does indeed determine if you get into a small business since it can eat up your profits - as you say the money to pay taxes must come from somewhere and that somewhere is the same place your profits come from. But when a company wants to stop letting the small businesses set the price, they, like Walmart, just drive the small businesses out of the market place - and taxes have nothing to do with the small business going down.

I took those same course years ago that showed how an efficient marketplace was affected by taxes - and how taxes just become a cost that all that are competing in that marketplace just pass on in the price of their goods. But we do not have an efficient marketplace. Indeed some folks spend much of their careers working out how much of a given tax actually gets moved on to the consumer in the real life pricing decisions that are being made.

[Lindacooks]

12. I will never forget this interview with an old man about Social Security

being a welfare program.

He was going on and on and on about 'it's my money and I want it and I paid into the program and give it to me now.'

Then he was given a chart showing that what he was being paid back was far, FAR more than he put in, even with interest, and that he was now on welfare. He looked at it for a minute and then said:

'It's my money and I want it and I paid into the program and give it to me now.'

Also, we used to vacation in Florida and read the newspapers there. Try to add taxes to those areas ripe with senior citizens. No matter what it's for - to help conserve water, improve schools - they'll vote against it. Don't give a damn about anybody but themselves.

I know not all seniors are like this. But like the human race, a large, LARGE percentage of them are as selfish as shit.

[papau]

22. The old man was correct - and the interviewer's idea incorrect -SS is not welfare

Interview Myers - he is still alive - who was there and helped design SS - becoming its Chief Actuary later in life (and he was a fully qualified actually, unlike the very nice and honest fellow we have via the GOP that is only an Associate of the Society of Actuaries).

The idea of SS as Welfare was discussed in 1934 - and rejected. The decision was to go with a SOCIAL INSURANCE PROGRAM BETWEEN GENERATIONS. The first generation to get benefits does indeed get much more than they put in - otherwise we'd have to wait 40 years before the first benefit is paid, all the while the GOP Government would be taking the payroll tax money so as to give it out as tax cuts for the rich as they force SS to accept Gov bonds (that fund those tax cuts for the rich) in lieu of any other investment. Later generation do not have a large inequity between themselves, but some might say they are slightly screwed as they must make up the shortfall in funding that occurs in the first generation.

Indeed, Bush wants to "screw again" the current later generation so as to end worries about a rather minor inequity between generations coming from that first generation - ending between generations equity questions by switching to a savings account approach - offset by real welfare for the aged that didn't save enough to have money for food and shelter in their old age. Of course the inequity between generations of a tax cut for the rich of this generation causing an increase in the National Debt that must be paid by later generations does not bother these inter-generational equity fixers.

Other countries invest in non-gov bonds for at least some of the assets of their social insurance pension system - why not us - but I digress.

The math is out there to explain how SS is a very stable system with a reasonable level of intergenerational equity - if anyone wants to read up on it,

I guess until then there will be interviews where someone is trying to tell the aged that taking Social Security means they are on welfare. Indeed the GOP is trying to enforce that false idea by "saving money while improving fairness" via a means test in order to get Social Security. If that succeeds you will really see who doesn't give a damn about anybody but themselves as the rich cut their taxes by cutting those welfare programs for the poor like the newly means tested Social Security.

[LoZoccolo]

17. He's not just a founder of the Club For Growth...

...he's also a member!

[area51]

25. LOL.

Everytime I see something about the so-called "club for growth", I think of this too.

[roseBudd]

23. He always laughs inappropriately when on Bill Maher & always has

a tortured expression on his face. Barney Frank did a good job smacking down his economy is great talking points

[4bucksagallon]

24. I can only go from my own experiences, my mother is over 90 receives

medicare, social security, drug plan and just about all the perks that republicans hate, yet she has been and still is a republican supporter. She is not rich by todays standards. So what motivates people to just take and take but not to realize that without someone like the democrats fighting for them that they would be in dire straights. I can not figure it out, some of it seems to be peer pressure, and greed that is all I can come up with. So maybe he is right about them being selfish.

[Jack Rabbit]

26. "Haves and have mores most selfish" Jack Rabbit Democratic Underground

/s/


My mark placed here with assistance from
the University of Kansas

[madmunchie]

29. Saying that all of that the seniors care about is their SS and Medicare Payments

is like telling the normal working person that all that they care about is their paycheck and the health of their family. Since income and health are primary to human life I would say that it is only logical to worry about these things ESPECIALLY when you have the Republicans trying to disassemble SS and trying to bankrupt Medicare. Hey, if somebody was trying to mess with my paycheck and take away my medical insurance, I'd be a little SCARED to. Isn't this what the Republicans do so well? Trying to scare people into complying with them?

Furthermore, SS isn't anything but getting a return on years of investment....remember that deduction that is taken out of our paychecks every pay period? That deduction is money that we should be able to lay claim to when we retire - Period.

[Retrograde]

30. "Are there no workhouses?"

Why don't those whiny seniors get out and get jobs? Some light agricultural work - get 'em out in the healthy fresh air, and since they're all stooped over anyway it will be easy for them to pick crops. Solves the immigration issue at the same time. And if that doesn't work out, we can sell their bodies for parts.

/sarcasm

As someone on the cusp of senior-citizenhood, the only explanations I can come up with are 1) this guy is relatively young or 2) has a large trust fund (or both). When your income suddenly goes way down (pension? what a quaint idea), even if you're somewhat prepared for it, priorities do shift around a bit. And guess what, Steve: as you age, you tend to get more medical problems - and your insurance, should you be lucky enough to have some, goes up so those medicare payments can literally be a matter of life and death. And by the way, as the baby boomer generation starts to retire you're going to hear more social security. Retiring with a pension is so 20th century: if you're lucky your employer contributed to your 401K, and you could leave that alone without having to dip into it because of illness or unemployment.

I suspect that like any age group, seniors represent a wide range of political views. There are the ultraconservatives, but they probably started out that way. The ones I know are active in various community groups, but maybe, like Steve, I'm just seeing what I want to see.

[Totally Committed]

31. Just a smidge of a taste of that Compassionate Conservatism

the Repubs are so famous for... yeah, we're just s bunch of money-grubbing geezers.

Thank goodness the global warming is making all those ice floes disappear or they'd be loading us on them a few at a time and jettisoning us to save themselves all that Social Security and Medicade $$$ that affords us our lavish lifestyles! :sarcasm:

I'm not a senior citizen yet, but I'm too close to it to be amused by this in the slightest.

F*ck you very much, Mr. Moore. Please take your Club for Growth and shove where the sun don't shine.

TC

[The2ndWheel]

33. Not sure why a Club for GROWTH guy

would be ripping on people who want more. Seems to me like seniors(and all of us who cheat death by artificially extending our lifespans and expecting every generation to have it better than the last) would be ideal for their club.

[cmd]

34. I'm a senior who wants the same thing for everyone.

Comprehensive health care for everyone including prescriptions and dental is my greedy dream.