Why Dems are Scattered

[BeFree]

Dems were for civil rights for blacks in the 60's thru today.
A lot of dems were never behind that idea.

Dems have been the major opposition to war.
A lot of dems were never behind that idea.

Dems are for better health care for everyone, better jobs, a higher minimum wage, and stronger social security.
A lot of dems were never behind that idea.

Dems are for the same civil rights equally no matter your sex, age, race, or age.
A lot of dems were never behind that idea.

It's tough to hold a party together when the party as a whole is moving faster than it's members.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. A shitload more WERE behind those ideas.

Those that weren't became Reagan "Democrats."

I disagree with your premise.

[BeFree]

2. Reagan "Democrats"

Yes. But they're still Democrats.

And yes, a shitload more were behind those ideas, duh. That's why so many of those ideas became the law of the land. Double duh.

How can you disagree with my premise if we both agree on the facts?

[bobbolink]

10. So, you're saying we should just give up on all our progressive ideas?

Just pander to votes, whatever it takes?

[BeFree]

14. Where did I infer that?

What I am doing is describing why dems are as scattered as we are, and why the world still sits at the edge of total nuclear destruction. Because there are a bunch of assholes who don't see things the same way we do. That's all.

[bobbolink]

16. "The party as a whole is moving faster than it's members"

It sounded to me like some of the same DLC shit that keeps getting peddled.

If I misunderstood, sorry.

Personally, looking at this board on just about any day, it seems to me one of the reason why Dems are "scattered" is because they are either busy bashing each other, or refusing to back up each other.

Have you looked at any polls on these issues lately? I'm asking because I suspect that if you were to actually question people in this country, not just Dems, you'd find that the majority back the very ideas you stated in your original post.

I know for a fact that even the majority of Republicans back Universal Single Payer Health Care, so the fact we don't have it means the Dems haven't done a very good job in pushing it. Maybe they also have hands in the pockets of the medical corporations?

No, I definitely don't think the "party is way out in front of the members". I think the party itself is in such disarray they can't get a message together to save their souls, and the country is suffering from it. I suspect it's more like what Bobby Kennedy, Jr. was talking about when he said that 100% of Republicans are corrupt, and 75% of Dems are corrupt.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. The case could easily be made that the members are out in front

of the party.

Way out in front.

[BeFree]

20. It could

Nothing gets done without the party as a whole- but especially by having our representatives doing the necessary actions.

I contend that there are those who are good dems but are actually holding us back. So how do we get them to catch up? If we keep losing members with each leap of progress, isn't it like taking one step forward and two steps back?

Look where we are today.... in a hole. How'd we get here if we are so great?

[bobbolink]

21. That's certainly the case of the people *I* know!!

And, I think some of the poll results show that, also.

Thanks for your thoughts. :)

[BeFree]

19. 25% of us are not corrupt?

Can't argue with that.

As for the majority, yes, you could say that about most - but not all of the ideas. But those are just the ideas that we've been successful at getting done. Those things are history, for the most part.

What concerns me is what we can do next, and what will it take to get it done? What are the sacrifices and what kind of unity will we need? And how can we keep from getting more scattered?

[bobbolink]

23. uhoh... I should have clarified that.. he was talking about politicians,

not rank and file.

~~gigglesnort~~

What needs to be done next, and this is coming from a person who is 60 years old and homeless, is wipe out poverty in this country!!! Bobby Kennedy would have done that, but we lost him. :cry:

Judging from the concern about poverty as shown on this forum, I don't expect anything, and know that most of us in poverty will continue to die, and it won't matter.

Yes, it makes me sick.

[gully]

6. That makes two of us who disagree with the premise.

eom

[BeFree]

9. Define your idea of the premise.

Because I disagree with your premise. So there! If that's how you want to debate.........

[gully]

11. My idea is the vast majority of Dems supported the ideals

you note, and the reason we're "scattered" - in a sense, is because "all politics is local." Different parts of the country have different "values" however, as Democrats our primary goals remain essentially the same.

[stellanoir]

3. they have mastered "group think"

we are still herding cats.

Armed with the greatest intellectuals, academics, mathematical, and scientific corroboration, if our argument remains rational, it will invariably be refuted. By total BS.

We have to gain conscious focus and repetitively say or think loudly, "I am co creating with spirit that any malicious code in the vote tallying software be neutralized, and that any malfeasance be so blatant that it will be corrected immedietely, so that justice will again be restored ASAP."

That is all.

[BeFree]

5. Refuted? Always.

True progress is always fought. Especially by those who have something to gain by keeping the status quo, and those who are afraid of change.

And they use BS to fight us. Mainly cause that's all they got.

Furthermore.... so you think that electronic patterns in the electronic voting machines can be altered if we all think electronically? I like. It's better than nothing.

[stellanoir]

15. Having fought this battle through traditional means for well over 4 years

to no avail. That's all I've got.

And I do believe in the hearts and minds invested in the greater good being stronger than the greedy and heinous low life usurpers of power over time.

[BeFree]

22. To no avail, my ass.

Granted we may once again lose our ass, we shall see. But we have come a long damn way. I needn't bore you with the details, but things look a whole lot better than two years ago. Back then we were pariahs! At least now we have a modicum of respect.

Chin up, kid!

Besides, I think the idea has merit. Just imagine. "They may say you are a dreamer, but you're not the only one."

[cobaindrain]

4. It's because we support what's right

and not necessarily what's popular.

[BeFree]

8. Exactly. We do what's right.

But it always becomes popular once we get 'er done, eh? Thing is, in the process, we get scattered.

Take gay rights for instance. It is right, but it is also very divisive. We have lost quite a few voters because of the party's stance on that issue.

[cobaindrain]

12. true, look at what we lost in the 60's and 70's

when it came to supporting civil rights legislation. we lost the entire south of the country. Something the repugs still enjoy to this day. We've given it up more than they've "won".

[BeFree]

17. Yep

But it was the right thing to do. And way over due. The point is that only by a uniting of the people who really cared did change come about. Uniting, is the key word. We lost unity in the end, but the brief unity made things so much better for so many people. 'Course, the work is not yet finished, but government did change, big time..

[gully]

7. "All politics is local" and we need to embrace that while holding on to

our MAIN values as a party. We can't "Naderize" everything. We have to understand that Harold Ford is competing in TN because he's "moderate."

[BeFree]

13. Right.

Naderizing things is ridiculuos. The heads of the two parties may be sleeping together, (!) but the grassroots are worlds apart.

Politics are the art of the possible. Somethings, at sometimes, are impossible. But we Dems stick to it and if it is the right thing, we get it done. Always have.