So, in 2004, did Kerry stand down so we would stand up?

[texpatriot2004]

Just watched Hacking Democracy and they got to the part where Kerry conceded (I had this horrible flashback to 2004)but there was this part where Cliff Arnebeck says something like Kerry was aware that the Optical Scanners were delivering * votes. Then he concedes?

Now, I admire and respect Kerry even though his concession was extremely traumatic for me personally so this is not about Kerry-bashing...that's not my point here. It just occurred to me that by him standing down, like the film stated, the people had to take up this fight.

Why would he do that? Perhaps there was a reason? Maybe it's because he could not prove the fraud, that's the problem, who can? The program tonight made it clear that alterations in the votes were not detectable. Maybe there were many reasons, maybe it was complex...

Still, it was an interesting moment for me thinking about this people standing up for their own democracy and their own vote idea because mostly I wanted someone else to take up that fight, someone to fight the fight on my behalf. And, BTW, I am involved in this issue and this fight so what about those who aren't, wouldn't they want someone else to do it also?

I don't know...

Just a thought.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. If Kerry was aware of the fraud, wouldn't they have taken some

steps by now to protect the vote--not only against Diebolding but against other forms of mayhem?

God, I hope so. I hope the Dems have an effective plan.

[texpatriot2004]

2. With HAVA and the conglomerate of e-voting corporations

and, as Ion Sancho stated the vendors running the process, I am not sure that the minority party could do much to change it. I would hope somebody would.

[MiaCulpa]

3. Kerry had cancer

When I read that recently, I wondered if that played any part in his decision.

[karynnj]

4. He was treated for cancer in early 2003

and has not had any proplem since then

[MiaCulpa]

7. I don't know how I missed hearing about it back then.

I just read it either this year or last.

[blm]

16. That's our media for you - they made great hay out of his post cancer pics

and how bad he looked, completely ignoring he was a cancer patient, so when he recovered and photographed better, he was accused of botoz treatments making him sound vain.

Kerry is probably the only cancer patient ever widely mocked for his appearance after treatment.

[blm]

15. No - Unwilling DNC and no proof in hand to take to court made the decision

.

[stillcool]

5. I find it very hard to...

seperate fact from fiction. It seems to me, that if we all knew what was going to go down before the 2004 election...the guys with the high pay grade were not clueless. I would like to think that if John had thrown his hat over the fence we the people would have followed, but in hindsight I doubt it. The power party has all hands on deck, and has covered every conceivable angle to block any remedy..plus they have the bullhorn. Kind of reminds me of a quote...
from Martin Luther King, Jr
In his speech "Beyond Vietnam"...
"Perhaps a new spirit is rising among us. If it is, let us trace its movements, and pray that our own inner being may be sensitive to its guidance, for we are deeply in need of a new way beyond the darkness that seems so close around us."
http://www.mlkonline.net/

[texpatriot2004]

8. You make some good points here, esp re: the bullhorn and I love

the MLK quote, it's very fitting.

[southerncrone]

6. Kerry conceding so quickly still bothers me

I like him, but could not understand that move, ESPECIALLY if he knew voting problems existed. Why didn't he fight that election? He had the $. AS I recall, Edwards seemed frustrated by that move. Seemed like he just folded. Unusual for a soldier of his caliber. He is so sharp &articulate (until lately!). Think it is a stretch to think he did it for US to stand up. Many I know think that tainted him, basically handing over the election to monkeyboy. :grr:

[SheilaT]

9. Kerry

wimped out. He was slow to respond the the Swift Boat assholes, and he conceded the election almost immediately. There was no grand strategy that would play out two or more years later.

You're giving him far too much credit.

In his twenty years in the Senate he never introduced any significant legislation. He was a terrible choice as a nominee. I knew that back then, said it over and over again, and was frequently slapped down here at DU. And what we've seen in recent days is the same wimp factor. Instead of clarifying things, he did this lame "I was making a joke" crap.

To see what should be said, look at any of Olbermann's Commentary's in the last year or so, especially the most recent ones.

[texpatriot2004]

10. I disagree 100% nm

[AtomicKitten]

11. disturbing HBO special

Everything we already knew but I had forgotten much. And I just want to say this. Kerry's own attorneys said he KNEW about the fraud and walked away. Now the Kerry Klub here at DU posts over and over again about how he exposes and fights corruption, and all I've got to say is that the election of 2004 would have been an excellent time to put up or shut up. But he walked away. With the money we raised for his post-election attorneys for a recount challenge. He walked away.

Regardless of the tidal wave of venom spewed on his behalf, he promised to fight the fraud and did not. If we are fortunate enough to actually take a house of Congress in a few days, correcting election fraud must be within the the top ten of their objectives. And IMO Kerry doesn't deserve another shot in 2008. I don't care about the pounding that will ensue here. His own goddamn attorneys in this documentary were flabbergasted that he pointed to the fraud and then folded. And I share their dismay.

That is my opinion which I am entitled to have and express.

[texpatriot2004]

12. Yes, you are entitled to have and express your opinion. nm

[Sensitivity]

13. Michael Moore had it right -- National Numbers indicted loss of popular vote

and that would make it hard to fight against the impression of being a sore looser.

I believe there was calculated fraud in many states, as well as an
unscrupulous GOTV system working for the Republicans. But, it is hard
to track and prove the plethora problems with the vote.

[blm]

14. He knew from security experts it was UNTRACEABLE - He was a prosecutor

sitting there with NO EVIDENCE to make a legal case.

They had hoped for a whistleblower because at that point that was all they could get into a court specifically on the machine fraud.

[texpatriot2004]

17. Yeah, that NO evidence part eh. Hacking Democracy mentioned

that, actually made it very clear that any alterations of the vote were "untraceable" and then they asked why would that be?

Only one reason I can think of.