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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:17 PM
Original message
To those who joined the Bush league's RW attack on Senator Kerry:

Kerry's Remark: Right either way

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD

Republicans evidenced their election desperation by braying about an offhand comment that Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., made at a California college rally.

"Education" Kerry said "-- if you make the most of it and you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Was Kerry making fun of the president, or warning students against the pitfalls awaiting the undereducated in general?

It doesn't matter. Kerry was right either way.

Kerry wasn't saying -- regardless of the Republican spin -- that our troops are stupid.

Kerry's intended point was obvious. President Bush didn't do his homework before he ordered the invasion. He didn't study the intricacies of Mideast religion, culture, politics and tribalism. He wasn't smart about it and we are stuck in Iraq.

Although there are plenty of well-educated people in our armed forces -- Kerry was one of them -- military service has long been an opportunity employer for those with less education and fewer skills than they need to work in the private sector. Indeed, the military sells itself as a place to garner skills and to help pay for higher education.

And wars, including this one, are often fought by those less privileged -- albeit no less smart -- than the sons and daughters of those who lead us into them.

Apologies? Sure, from the cut-and-run Democratic candidates who've cancelled appearances with Kerry.


The Senator, in essence, called Mr. Bush stupid. The context was unmistakable: Texas, the state of denial, stuck in Iraq. No interpretation required. And Mr. Bush and his minions responded, by appearing to be too stupid to realize that they had been called stupid. They demanded Kerry apologize to the troops in Iraq. – Keith Olbermann


A few people decided to join the Bush league's RW attack:

TIMES FORGETS KERRY RAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2004. Okay, that's not exactly what happened, but still, this is pretty amusing. Check this out from today's New York Times piece on John Kerry's botched Iraq joke:

Mr. Kerry’s advisers were trying to figure out the damage as he considers a 2008 run.

The long-term problem was not so much that he appeared to be insulting the troops — although that did not help, when his message rests so much on his military service and concern for veterans. It was more that his remarks left a segment of his own party, and perhaps the electorate, wondering if he has the agility and political skill to compete at the highest level.

Did anyone in Kerry's party really tell the Times this? It sounds a lot more like the reporter set out to hear this -- and then when something resembling it came along, went ahead and paraphrased it in the above manner. But it's just silly. Have we already forgotten the 2004 Presidential election? Kerry got over 59 million votes, second in history only to the current resident of the White House. Okay, he was an imperfect candidate and he lost, but still -- there's no question whatsoever that his run demonstrated the skills to at least "compete at the highest level." Sheer idiocy. -- Greg Sargent


"John Kerry is not a very good politician," said Joe Lockhart, a senior adviser to Kerry during his presidential campaign. "Politicians who succeed and do well have great internal instincts and have a great ear for what works and what doesn't. John Kerry has neither. He's not a funny guy. He's not a natural guy. He is not someone who can pick up on the nuances of a daily political battle."

Lockhart says that Kerry, "like a lot of highly educated people," has trouble coming to terms with the fact that "something as important as electing a president or electing a Congress can turn on something so trivial, like a word left out of a joke."

"They take themselves and the process so seriously they have trouble dealing with the rest of the system, dealing with it in such a trivial, half-assed way," Lockhart said. "That's the reality of the situation. Does it make him somehow less of a person? No, I think it makes him more of a person. Does it make him a good politician? No, it doesn't make him a good politician."

That said, Lockhart added, "John Kerry is a good man, and that's why he has gotten as far as he has in politics. So when he says he was telling a joke, everyone should believe him."


Mr. Bush has been pushing these divisive themes all over the nation, offering up the ludicrous notion the other day that if Democrats manage to control even one house of Congress, America will lose and the terrorists will win. But he hit a particularly creepy low when he decided to distort a lame joke lamely delivered by Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts. Mr. Kerry warned college students that the punishment for not learning your lessons was to “get stuck in Iraq.” In context, it was obviously an attempt to disparage Mr. Bush’s intelligence. That’s impolitic and impolite, but it’s not as bad as Mr. Bush’s response. Knowing full well what Mr. Kerry meant, the president and his team cried out that the senator was disparaging the troops. It was a depressing replay of the way the Bush campaign Swift-boated Americans in 2004 into believing that Mr. Kerry, who went to war, was a coward and Mr. Bush, who stayed home, was a hero....When the president of the United States gleefully bathes in the muck to divide Americans into those who love their country and those who don’t, it is destructive to the fabric of the nation he is supposed to be leading -- Editorial, The Great Divider, Published: November 2, 2006


But they also share something else in common. When George Bush and the Republican Party decided to beat John Kerry down, John McCain and Hillary Clinton decided to pile on and add a few kicks of their own. Both of these people know John Kerry personally, they know the Republican playbook first hand, they’ve been abused by these same people themselves, and they know full well that John Kerry would never have disparaged the troops. But they both saw a political opportunity to profit by the bloody works of George Bush and Karl Rove, and they didn’t hesitate to take it. -- Mark Barrett


To the above group, a few messages from people willing to stand up to RW smear:

Strength Sells. Show Some.

Rep. Sherrod Brown, a Democrat leading in late polls in his bid to unseat Republican Sen. Mike DeWine, said Republicans are merely trying to change the subject. "The people who should apologize are George Bush and Mike DeWine for sending our troops into battle without body armor and without examining the cooked intelligence," he said.


"John Kerry is not only a great leader for the Democratic party and a great U.S. senator, but he's a patriot," Casey said after a morning political rally in Allentown. "He said he botched a joke and I think that is the beginning and the end of it. He was talking about the president and I think he has every right to criticize this president." – Bob Casey


"I think people will remember John Kerry's press conference today as the moment we Democrats stopped once and forever accepting the disgraceful smears of Republicans. John Kerry showed our Party how to fight back with the truth.

“John Kerry is a patriot who has fought tooth and nail for veterans ever since he came home from Vietnam. He has stood with his brothers in arms unlike this Administration which exploits our troops to make a political point and divide America.

“John Kerry should apologize to no one for his criticism of the President and his broken policy in Iraq. George Bush is the one who owes our troops an apology. This is text book Republican campaign tactics.

“Everybody knows it's not working this time around. If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they've got a partisan political agenda and that's the bottom line. We're not going to take it any more." -- Max Cleland


Dem strategist James Carville: "It is much easier to say, I botched a joke, than to say, I botched a war. And he was very frank. ... He gave an explanation. And, as I say, Senator Kerry is one of the great war heroes to ever serve in the Congress. He has about a 100 percent record when it comes to the veterans. So, I don't understand exactly what the problem is. He didn't owe anybody an apology. He owed an explanation" ("Situation Room," CNN, 10/31).


"It's time for the President and Vice President to start leveling with the American people, and stop attacking brave veterans like John Kerry who have dared to question the White House's flawed decision to stay the course in Iraq. Every day they attack Democrats instead of reaching out to find a new way forward is another day our security suffers and our troops go without the political leadership they need to succeed. -- Harry Reid


Keith Olbermann comments on President Bush and John Kerry's remarks on "Countdown with Keith Olbermann."

Colbert Sets the Kerry Smear Straight

Daily Show on the John Kerry Botched Joke Flap

George Bush, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld think you’re stupid. Yes, they do.
They think they can take a mangled quip about President Bush and Iraq by John Kerry — a man who is not even running for office but who, unlike Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, never ran away from combat service — and get you to vote against all Democrats in this election.

Every time you hear Mr. Bush or Mr. Cheney lash out against Mr. Kerry, I hope you will say to yourself, “They must think I’m stupid.” Because they surely do.

They think that they can get you to overlook all of the Bush team’s real and deadly insults to the U.S. military over the past six years by hyping and exaggerating Mr. Kerry’s mangled gibe at the president.

What could possibly be more injurious and insulting to the U.S. military than to send it into combat in Iraq without enough men — to launch an invasion of a foreign country not by the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force, but by the Rumsfeld Doctrine of just enough troops to lose? What could be a bigger insult than that? -- Thomas Friedman


On June 13 of this year, my younger brother Russ was killed in Afghanistan. There is obviously no need for me to explain the pain this caused me and my family, from my mother, to Russ' twin brother, to his fiance.

We were contacted by all the members of our state's congressional coalition (all Republicans) and by our governor (John Lynch, a Dem). Only one politician from outside the state contacted us, and that was John Kerry. At Russ' funeral, the only two politicians who attended were Lynch and Kerry (no, cynics, he didn't advertise his appearance or make any statements to the media about it, so don't suggest he did it to win votes).

Since the funeral, a couple of our congressmen have followed up a little with our family. So has Lynch. So has Kerry. He has called my mother on multiple occaisions and offered to do anything he can to help us.

In short, he was there for my family, the family of a fallen soldier. He continues to be there for us, and has offered to do more.

What he said yesterday was clearly a slip of the tongue. He was talking about Bush, and misspoke slightly. The White House knows it, just as we know it. For cheap political gain, Bush and Co. are trying to make it sound as if he is insulting the troops, when they absolutely know that that is not the case.

As someone who has experienced Kerry's support for the troops first-hand, and as someone who has seen him give some small amount of comfort to my griveing mother, I can't put into words how offensive I find the false suggestion, for cheap politcal gain, that Kerry wants to insult our troops and their families.

To everyone out there trying to make that case (Bush, Cheney, Snow, McCain, among others), one simple message: Go to hell. -- RIP Russ


“Senator John Kerry has served our country with great distinction, both in the military and in the United States Senate. The men and women of our armed forces know they have a friend and tireless advocate in John Kerry. When it comes to Iraq, he's right to stand up against baseless attacks, and right to keep fighting for a better course for our troops and our country.” -- Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy


Kristen Breitweiser
11.03.2006

Because It's Not That Hard To Apologize--So Pass It On

This past week in response to John Kerry's remarks about our troops in Iraq, White House Spokesman, Tony Snow, stated that Kerry should apologize to the troops because he insulted them. Snow preached to Kerry that "it is not that hard to just apologize."

The audacity of the Bush Administration requesting John Kerry to apologize to the troops is astounding given the record this Republican Administration and Republican Congress have with regard to their use of our troops in Iraq.

Admittedly, John Kerry spoke words that offended our troops. As a mistake, a poor judgment call, or a bad delivery of a bad joke, John Kerry's utterance was just that-the passage of words at a speech he was giving to a group of students. Kerry's words did not cause the unnecessary death or injury of another human being. In short, at the end of the day, NOBODY DIED.

If only those words-NOBODY DIED-could be said about the words and actions of the Bush Administration and this Republican Congress in the past five years.

If saying sorry is just "not that hard to do"-according to President Bush's official spokesman, then perhaps President Bush can start apologizing for the many things he is responsible for in the past 5 years. Here is the beginning of that list:


To the GOP/RW crooks and liars, "It's Not That Hard To Apologize!"

To Lockhart and the pile-on Democrats, shame!

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP! DEMS who had Rove's back & not mine-thanks for NOTHING!!
Kerry will come out smelling like rose after this- the only losers are the WH Spin machine and the idiot DEMS who had their back instead of OUR back.

We wont forget in '08 who attacked Bush and who attacked fellow Democrats.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. IMO John F. Kerry has too much INTEGRITY and COMPASSION
to be elected in today's political climate.

I kid you not, had I been a fellow Senator, I would have stepped forward and stood next to Kerry.

Never Forget: It was the corporate news media that choose to treat BushWorld's DISINFORMATION Campaign as *real news.* We all knew exactly what the Republican Smear Machine was doing, but just like during his "Swift Boating" those Democrats in power left their colleague twisting in the wind. IMO, f**king cowards do not deserve to hold onto their seat. I plan on voting for their Democratic competition in their next primary. :grr:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Be glad for Karma - Guess who can call for hearings on Corporate Media
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Seattle Post said it for me

Was Kerry making fun of the president, or warning students against the pitfalls awaiting the undereducated in general?

It doesn't matter. Kerry was right either way.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Even though I didn't
your post is nonsense as regards posters here, particularly the thread title. People here expressed concern that Kerry's goofed up joke would help the repukes. Some folks who don't like JK did pile on, but that is not the same as joining forces with the pukes. Some politicians in tight races distanced themselves from him. I find that understandable. I assume that they know their electorate better than I do. Or better than you do.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. This post is directed to those cited in the post! Your defensiveness is uncalled for! n/t
Edited on Fri Nov-03-06 02:26 PM by ProSense
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. If the shoe doesnt fit, then by all means, dont wear it. n/t
n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I don't blame ANY candidate - they were listening to Dem "strategists"
and taking cues from "leaders" like Hillary Clinton.

The yet uninitiated into DC politics candidates aren't being attacked any more than Kerry attacked the troops.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. It is the same
The entire party could have joined together to point out that this was just one more slam in a long line of concocted slams by the Rovian Republican Machine. This has been the sleaziest campaign season I can ever remember and instead of using this as an opportunity to point out all this garbage, our stupid-ass leadership decided to go along with the Bushies and dump on Kerry. It's absolutely shameful and the only reason any Democrat has trouble with their constituents is because they buy into this ridiculous notion of Republican moral authority and Believe Republicans First. It's stupid stupid politics, for the short run and the long run.

Our President went on Rush Limbaugh's show for chrissake, and our leadership didn't say a word about it. Where are they on the Nuclear Bomb story, defending Michael J Fox, the voting machines?

I'll tell you one thing, thank god this election is almost here because the ones who would lose it are the ones who are in charge now.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-04-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
33. Yep...
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Very nicely done. This incident certainly showed some people for their
true colors. Very damning, but certainly not to Kerry. K & R
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LilyLibber Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nicely done!
A brilliant compendium! K & R
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ohtransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. This will go down as another baseless RW smear.
and Dem pols who piled on will owe the apologies.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Unfortunately, many of them...
owe plenty of apologies already. The Democrats have a long list of "moderates" who are quicker to stab the party in the back than they are in voting with the party.

This incident is also one of many, and the same players are involved time and time again.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Well said, Prosense! The only way to deal with their noise
Edited on Fri Nov-03-06 03:26 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
machine is for Dem leaders to go into attack mode, at full volume, and the first and finest way to do that, is to rush to stand by the side of their latest would-be Swift-boat victim, and deride his/her neocon attackers mercilessly.

The American people depend upon the Democratic politicians to do that, because they cannot - except through blogs and forums like this. They knows he's got their back, but can only look to their putative Democratic leaders to reciprocate on their behalf in the mainstream media. Don't keep frustrating them by your pusillanimous submission to such slaves of evil.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Excellent work, Prosense. This damn episode has been completely
manufactured -- in context, it was a joke obviously about Bush. But because of the Right Wing and the lapdog media, it was deliberately spliced and diced for maximum effect so it WOULD hurt the troops. And, then, John Kerry HAD to apologize, which was the gracious thing to do.
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thank You Thank You Thank You
I completely agree with you. Thank you for the great post. Hillary Clinton is another Lieberman as far as I am concerned. She could not wait to jump on the ban wagon with the Bush. I have supported her previously, but NO MORE! She showed her true colors at this critical time when Democrats need to provide a strong united front, especially in light of what has happened in the last 6 years. This is the most critical election of my lifetime, lets just say H.Clinton, should have been more "Olbermann-Like" and less "Bush-like"!
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I disagree...I think classifying Hillary as a "Leiberman"...
Edited on Fri Nov-03-06 03:02 PM by Zodiak Ironfist
is a bit simplistic. They are distinctly different. Leiberman is a solid turncoat who would stab his party in the back even when it is unpopular for him to do so. Take, for example, his attack on Bill Clinton during the Lewinski affair while Clinton had a 70% approval rating.

Hillary is a pure political opportunist who has a crappy sense of what will score points or lose points (because she acts like yesterday's politics). She will jump on any bandwagon that rolls by if she thinks it will gain her more traction. She thought that the wind was going to blow hard against Kerry and she jumped on the bandwagon to squeeze a point or two with Obama's support breathing down her neck. She jumped the gun and found herself on the wrong side of the issue, and now she has alienated more Democrats than she gained moderate supporters. Trust me, when it is clear that the party is heading in another direction, she will "reinvent" herself as she has done numerous times in the past.

Leiberman = turncoat or mole
Hillary = crappy opportunist
Zell Miller = batshit crazy

My opinion, of course.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. Excellent work ProSense!
K&R:kick:
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Horsey" also in the Seattle PI that day!
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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. This episode shows who has basic HONOR and INTEGRITY
John Kerry has it in spades, as do those who stood with him.

Hillary Clinton and her ilk, who knew DAMN WELL what Kerry meant, chose instead to cynically stab their colleague in the back.

Hillary doesn't even have the excuse that Harold Ford and Jon Tester did, that her contest was in jeopardy. They were simply fearful. SHE, however, is DISHONORABLE. She did this SOLELY for 2008.

I don't know about you, but I want a President who doesn't take shit from thugs and bullies like the Bush administration. Hillary is completely unfit ever to be President of the United States.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Agreed. Hillary is dishonorable, and a coward to boot. I would
NEVER vote for her -- ever. I would vote 3rd party. She is poison.
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Hillary appears is the most shameless to me right now.
Edited on Fri Nov-03-06 06:57 PM by cadmium
She has no credible opposition in her senate race. At least the people running in tight races can claim they are reflecting the opinions of their constituents--after all they sell out the Geneva Conventions and the Constitution on that rationale. Hillary Clinton does not even have that excuse.
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Democrafty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. kick! n/t
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thanks ProSense!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. Nice post!
Too bad they didn't pile on Bush going on Rush Limbaugh instead of piling on Kerry for beating up Bush.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. kick n/t
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
25. I appreciate the work that must go into these posts
K & R
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joeldm Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
27. I hope Kerry keeps fighting because he's an honorable, honest guy . . .
. . . but I don't think he has what it takes to take the party standard and be the next candidate and I have to wonder if this latest incident doesn't nail it shut for him.

JoeL
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. That's what they want you to think
Edited on Fri Nov-03-06 07:04 PM by politicasista
I wouldn't count him out. I wouldn't count anyone out.

This post lays it all out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2924078&mesg_id=2925573
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-04-06 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Latest talking point
As seen last night on Maher, and in Joan Venocchi's column - he doesn't have what it takes to be the standard bearer. And someone chooses to use that talking point in one of their first posts at DU. What a coinky-dink. :eyes:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-04-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Hi joeldm!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. More from the no-class Bush league!
Granted, Kerry didn't intend to make fun of the troops. But he's in no position to mock anyone else's academic record. The Yale transcripts of Bush and Kerry -- widely reported last year --showed that the two were equally sorry students...(Apparently some in the Party establishment agree -- his campaign appearances have reportedly been cancelled.)...

So, let's shrug our shoulders and let Kerry twist in the wind... -- Liza Featherstone

Liza Featherstone could benefit from a remedial course in logic!

Sheer idiocy!



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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-04-06 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
31. When Clinton and Ford jumped on the 'pologize wagon...
what the heck were they thinking? Why do our leaders pull this crap? Ford at least could argue that he is in a close race and needed to avoid any damage, but Clinton?
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-04-06 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
32. Shame and disgust for all the DU'rs HERE who bought the repuke spin,
hook line and sinker...

I will ALWAYS remember who they were and act accordingly...

But considering these SCUM past posts - not all - but enough - I am not at all surprised by their reprehensible actions...

Makes my blood boil...

and I can not be considered an avid Kerry supporter here by any means...
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-04-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. i amwith you though i admit, i willnot remember a single one of em
wink
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