I'll say it: I don't want the Evangelicals coming over to our side

[Duer 157099]

I think they should collectively admit that their foray into politics has been a dismal failure, and they should stick to what they know and stay in their churches. They can keep their tax shelters, as long as they stay out of politics.

I hope they don't see all this GOP corruption as an excuse to cross the aisle and start trying to dictate the democrat agenda! I don't want their votes, I don't want their beliefs, I don't want their agenda, and I hope I'm not the only one.

[phiddle]

1. They won't. I'll be happy if they stay home.

[griffi94]

2. amen

the un-holy marriage of religon and gop politics
is why the gop is about to implode

[tblue]

3. People who follow the true teachings of Jesus are good people, and are welcome

but people who hate and hurt and condemn others for private matters, and who suport war and death and deception, sorry, I have no use for them either.

[redwitch]

4. They can keep their agenda, with ya on that.

But if they won't stay home, I'll take their votes. Just so they don't expect us to pander to them, just so we don't get addicted to their votes. Sometimes I loathe politics!

[Stinky The Clown]

5. The Evangelicals I know you're speaking about hate our guts

Not all Evangelicals are the same. The ones of which you speak are the most vocal - the right wing, politically active ones who love to hate and scold. There is a whole other group of them who are reasonable and loving.

I have two of them in my family. Sister-in-law and her daughter. Both are married to the nutter side of the group, so we know that part pretty well, too. In fact, apart from a 'love for Jesus' they have in common, they might as well both be in mixed marriages - you know, a Dem married to a Repub, and who, when they vote, cancel out each other's vote!

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. I don't want opportunists coming over to our side.

They can vote for Dems, but if they've done something wrong, I hope they don't think there are Dem crime lords out there they can count on to take care of their parking tickets or some other indiscretion. Those days are past, right?

[TygrBright]

7. They already tried that, in the 1970s, right after Roe V. Wade...

...they made a determined assault on the Democratic Party that lasted through the 70s and fizzled out when a Christian Dem President didn't do everything he could to kill all the fetus-murderers. So they switched to the GOPpies, with whom they hadn't had much in common until then. They've fallen for the GOPpie "kiss 'em to death and promise them everything and then ignore them when the election is over" tactic for 25 years, and they're finally realizing that the GOPpies aren't going to make blastocyst-worship mandatory, either, no matter what they're willing to say to get the blastocyst-worshipper vote.

They're not gonna come back over here after getting politely (and sometimes not-so-politely) ignored at every podunk Dem County Convention and Precinct Caucus since 1974.

What bothers me is all the "moderate" GOPpies who are looking to us for sanctuary. Not that I'm against giving it to them temporarily, but I don't want them making themselves at home here. They're welcome to hit the buffet, get a shower and a good night's sleep on the sofa, but then I want them to head back and retake their OWN party.

firmly,
Bright

[hwmnbn]

8. If they start using facts instead of faith.....

to arrive at their political positions, fine. I'll entertain their comments and we can have a civil discourse about what should be done about all the hot button issues.

The moment they start justifying their political positions by claiming "it's God's will," they can get the fuck out of my face.

They are very responsible for the damage the chimp and his minions have done to this country. Without their blind, misguided support of that asshole, he wouldn't have made it out of the 2000 repug primaries. They'll have to atone for THAT sin before I'll become buddy buddy with any fundie.

They got a long way to go.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. You certainly are not alone in your wish

You think the Democratic Party is leaning towards the right now? Wait until they start coming on board.

[Elidor]

10. I caught a snippet of something on NPR this afternoon

A poll that claimed that where evangelicals used to be predominantly republican, they are now split roughly evenly between Dems and the GOP. Kind of blew my mind. I can't find the story on their site, however.

[Flabbergasted]

11. You're stereotyping a group.

Secondly, why not allow people to change their mind.

"Evangelicals" are not voting for dems so they will accept their beliefs.


On the other hand "evangelicals" should keep religion out of politics.

[elperromagico]

13. I'd naturally assume that the OP is referring to conservative evangelicals,

not progressive evangelicals.

There are evangelicals who feel that their faith compels them to do as much good in society as possible; they don't need to cross over, as they're already with us.

[Duer 157099]

19. That's true, I am

People can change their minds; that's not what I'm concerned about.

The Evangelicals I'm speaking of are the people who want to use the Bible to coerce their interpretation of morality on the rest of society.

It bothers me to no end when I hear discussions, often on talk radio, where the Bible is cited as the rationale for this or that moral highground. For example, the other night Thom Hartmann was speaking with some pastor about gay marriage (or something relating to being gay) and the pastor would cite the Bible (even though Thom was very well versed and able to counter every argument the guy could come up with) and I was just annoyed that the conversation didn't stop at "Sorry, the Bible is not our Constitution, nor should it/will it ever be. Period. Next topic?" Instead, people typically meet them on their battle field and play by their rules, accepting the premise that *if* the Bible *really* says that (or *means* that), then OK, maybe we'd accept it.

NO! NO! NO!!

Don't refer to the Bible when you want to prove ANYTHING to me, thank you very much. I reject the premise, so the discussion must end there.

Anyway, I'm ranting now. But the point is: "true* evangelicals will not forfeit their premise, which is that it's their business (so says God and the Bible) to apply God's rules on everybody. If they don't do that, most of the fundamentalist-type evangelicals would even dispute whether such a person truly was a Christian ("you will know them by their fruits" etc).

[elperromagico]

12. I don't regard that as much of a possibility.

They're more likely to not vote at all.

[Infinite Hope]

14. I want them to form their own Evangelical Party...

and ensure the future of the Democratic Party's majority.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Many (not most, but many) evangelicals are already on the Left

economically and politically, if not socially.

The Mennonites are a prime example: conservative on behavioral issues, but very, very Left on issues of peace and economic justice. If they want to push an agenda of anti-militarism and economic justice, that's fine with me.

[Marrak]

16. I am not that....

optimistic about this group of sheep. While the first reaction may be to think these events (Foley, et. al) will alienate them from the Repuqs, I really think they will only repeat their patterns (vote repuq), and carry on their religious rituals with more conviction. Just look at how Preznit B**h reacts when confronted with the real world!? It's all they know, "dig-in your heels, ignore the outside, the real world, the "god-damn-it pray-harder" mentality. They'll most probably further entrench and periodically "God's messenger" will whip-up some inquisition froth and fervor, you know purge the "evil sinners" paranoia that keeps them in-line. You know the drill. These are real high-maintenance types.

[Silent3]

17. My dream would be...

...for the right-wing fundies to give up on the Republicans and form their own independent party, one that doesn't have a ghost of a chance of winning (except for the occasional "stealth" candidate running in a small-town election no one is paying attention to, or the occasional stroke of luck when both major party candidates are revealed to be axe murders two days before elections), and mainly serves to split votes that would have gone all Republican before.

Ah, yes. A man can dream! :D

Instead of calling it the Bible Thumper Party or the Dominionists or something else with a little more truth in packaging, they'd probably go Orwellian and call it the "Freedom" Party, sadly without the necessary scare quotes.

[Duer 157099]

18. Now that's a solution I can get behind

Besides, that's within their mandate to "be in the world but not of the world" -- see they can insulate themselves in their own little political party, pretending to be a political force to be reckoned with, when in reality they'll just have sequestered themselves, much like a benign tumor.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. You don't have to worry.

They won't come over to our side.

The best possible scenario is that they stay away from the polls and the fence sitters come over to our side.

[AZBlue]

21. I thought religious freedom was allowed in this country?

You and I must be in different Democratic parties. Mine allows room for any religion, race, sexual orientation or whatever, as long as they agree with and support most or all of the party's principles. If an "evangelical" supports the Dem party's ideals, including the separation of church and state and freedom of all religions to practice as they see fit, then come on over.

[Duer 157099]

23. Well clearly I was referring to

those evangelicals who are political and who are political in order to push a religious-based agenda.

You're right -- if they respect all religions and the separation of church and state and don't try to legislate their brand of morality, then fine with me.

But we both know that's not who I'm referring to.

[rosesaylavee]

22. Never good to stereotype a group.

There are a lot of good evangelicals who haven't jumped on the * bandwagon. Jimmy Carter describes his faith as an evangelical.

I say our tent is big enough for anyone to join who respects the constitution and the bill of rights.

[TankLV]

24. IF they are willing to surrender and support OUR Democratic Ideals

I'm OK with it

WE SHOULD NOT COMPROMISE OUR IDEALS ONE IOTA!

but it's about as likely as a cold day in hell...

[PaDem]

25. Well you're stuck with me.........

I'm an Evangelical, though I never had to cross over. There are some of us who don't think the government oughta be in the business of deciding who can and can't be married, and there are some of us who don't think the government oughta be in the room when a woman and her doctor make medical decisions. I know we are in the minority, and I can't apologize enough for the majority of Evangelicals who are driving the bus down the road to destruction.

[Duer 157099]

26. Well, all I can say is...

Hi!!! :hi:

I have no problem with people's private beliefs and practices, as long as they realize that it cuts both ways, as you clearly do.

[1932]

27. I believe Cornell West considers himself an Evangelical Christian, as does

Jim Wallis.

I'm glad they're on our side.

[mmonk]

28. They can come over if they accept

what our founding fathers provided by the establishment clause which is separation of church and state.

[1932]

29. I don't they would come over if they didn't, but, rather than worry about

what they have to accept before you let them in the door, I think we should be worrying about what we can say to encoruage them to come inside.

I'd like to see more Democrats make the arguments Jim Wallis makes in God's Politics.

[catzies]

30. I'm with you and I don't want them with us. It's disingenous & a blatant

reach for power. You're NOT the only one and I'm sick of their agenda too.

[conscious evolution]

31. I'd like to see them

move to paragauy.

[anitar1]

32. Heres another one who agrees with you.

I was wondering last night if I can ever forget the sheer ugliness of the last 6 years. No,I feel like 6 years have been lost and the country has been totally trashed. But, I did find DU, and am glad about that.

[omega minimo]

33. the "democrat" agenda?

:evilfrown:

[Duer 157099]

34. LOL, I was wondering if anyone would comment on that

I was going to write "democrat's agenda" and that didn't sound right, and neither did "democratic agenda" and so I opted for what I wrote.

[Pragmatic Pilgrim]

35. They might go FAR Left. We can live with that.

True Believers are a breed unto themselves. (The psychological opposite of one True Belief is NOT the other True Belief--they're both Fundies, and thus are much more alike than different. The opposite of both is the Moderate, the thinker.) So when True Believers find that their idols have feet of clay, they rush around like ants whose ant-hill was just kicked over, searching frantically for a new True Belief. They often swing to the opposite extreme.

That happened when Nixon took his fall--lots of Right Wingers went Left. It's the same phenomenon you often see in a reformed drunk or a reformed smoker--they become crusaders for the opposite. And since the Left is actually a lot more Christian in its values than the Right, they might find a home in our Far Left Wing.

I think we can deal with them if it happens. After all, we believe in healing the sick (health care), feeding the hungry (minimum wage increase), ministering to the imprisoned (habeas corpus, less in the way of legislated minimum sentences for non-violent crimes), and exalting the poor over the rich.

They'd just have to narrow their focus to the New (Christian) Testament instead of living in the Old (Hebrew) Testament with all its anger, punishment, revenge, and torture. Then we could get along fine!

[Irreverend IX]

36. Why say no to more votes?

In the unlikely event that they do cross to our side rather than stay out of politics, we can do the same thing to them that the GOP did. String them along for a boost at the ballot box and throw them away like a used condom when it's time to make policy. The Bible tells them they'll face suffering in this life. Why disappoint them?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

37. And let's keep the Jews out too...

Collapsing the big tent, are we?

[Geek_Girl]

38. I'd be happy to have them.

Keep in mind the Baptist use to be very strong proponents of separation of church and state. It's the GOP politicians who have manipulated the evangelicals to get their votes and support. If they came to our side voting on the issues and true family values like affordable health care, fair wages ect... Then we win.

[Jawja]

39. I agree with you, totally.

Evangelicals need to stick to the business of their faith and stop trying to destroy the wall between church and state.

They sided with the corrupt GOP who used them; they did everything they could to destroy the Democratic Party and America.

No. We don't want 'em.

[election_2004]

40. AS LONG AS they are willing to tolerate socially-liberal or socially-moderate policies....

...I say bring 'em on over! :)

[Blue_Roses]

41. Don't worry..they won't

nt