Just want to post how disgusted I was with Alec Balwin for his remarks

[saracat]

cocerning John Kerry. Congrats to Bill Maher for having the guts to defend Kerry. For Baldwin to say that Kerry wasn't fit to be apresidential candidate as the result of that Joke when the intent of both the "joke and the so called apology were obvious to anyone but a moron was disgusting. I lost a lot of respect for Alec Balwin.And BTW, you would think of all people, he would know about being quoted out of context.

[AIJ Alom]

1. him too. good grief. I'm going to say it again.

Sadly we are a nation of consumers and not investigators. We feed off the information others give us rather than look at the content ourselves and then and only then, after weighing both sides formulate an opinion. But heaven forbid we should miss our sitcoms or our sports, whatever the media says is good for us. That attitude has got to go.

[Doremus]

35. Thank you. I was just saying the same thing today...

to a friend who gets her information from idiots like Trivisonno and Limpballs.

When naive people take the word of voices on the radio because "they should know what's going on," we are all the worse for it.

I think I opened her eyes a tiny crack. Maybe.

But why would we need to reconstruct Iraq when our bombs have such pinpoint accuracy?
Ummm, do the words "shock and awe" ring a bell?

Clinton disgraced the office. We need a president that sets a high moral standard.
Drug and alcohol abuse aside, is it moral to lie, cheat and steal? What about murdering thousands of innocent people?

Election fraud? Yeah, I hate that the Democrats always try to vote more than once."
Why is it that some people are so obsessed with the penny on the floor that they don't know the 100 dollar bills are flying out their back pocket? Uh, yeah, I'm talking about the Repuglican party OWNING the machinery that counts our votes and you're worried about a handful of imaginary two-bit fraudsters.

IT'S FREAKING TIME TO WAKE UP YOU MORON! (No, I did not say this, but I sooooo wanted to.)

[rodeodance]

55. yeah, i am surprized also.

[Erika]

2. Kerry was a Nam vet

It sickens me that he gets no reward for that while the chickenhawks in the Bush administration put him down.

[Vexatious Ape]

3. The "liberal media" allowed that to happen.

They allowed Kerry to get painted as a wussy--while the chimp was painted as the bad-ass.

[blm]

11. Here's a surprise for the corporate media come January - guess who can call

for hearings on Corporate Media?


Kerry Seeks to Reverse FCC's "Wrongheaded Vote"

Commission Decision May Violate Laws Protecting Small Businesses; Kerry to File Resolution of Disapproval

Monday, June 2, 2003

WASHINGTON - Senator John Kerry today announced plans to file a "Resolution of Disapproval" as a means to overturn today's decision by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to raise media ownership caps and loosen various media cross-ownership rules.
Kerry will soon introduce the resolution seeking to reverse this action under the Congressional Review Act and Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act on the grounds that the decision may violate the laws intended to protect America's small businesses and allow them an opportunity to compete.

As Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, Kerry expressed concern that the FCC's decision will hurt localism, reduce diversity, and will allow media monopolies to flourish. This raises significant concerns about the potential negative impacts the decision will have on small businesses and their ability to compete in today's media marketplace.

In a statement released earlier today regarding the FCC's decision, Kerry said:

"Nothing is more important in a democracy than public access to debates and information, which lift up our discourse and give Americans an opportunity to make honest informed choices. Today's wrongheaded vote by the Republican members of the FCC to loosen media ownership rules shows a dangerous indifference to the consolidation of power in the hands of a few large entities rather than promoting diversity and independence at the local level. The FCC should do more than rubber stamp the business plans of narrow economic interests.

"Today's vote is a complete dereliction of duty. The Commissioners are well aware that these rules greatly influence the competitive structure of the industry and protect the public's access to multiple sources of information and media. It is the Commission's responsibility to ensure that the rules serve our national goals of diversity, competition, and localism in media. With today's vote, they shirked that responsibility and have dismissed any serious discussion about the impact of media consolidation on our own democracy."

[blue cat]

4. I with you

Digusted.

[pretzel4gore]

5. baldwin's an actor, his brother stephen is born agin!

while everything does seem critical, the windy misperceptions of an alec baldwin, or dennis hopper, or kelsey grammer etc shouldn't be too grievieous concern - baldwin might be thinking optics regards his career (look at jane fonda. a freeper spat on her, and we did nothing. or barbara streisland; she had a drink thrown at her by a gopig, and again we heroes didn't do or say nothing)...the fact is, baldwin has to take care of himself, since we 'liberals' aren't gonna be there for him if he sticks his neck out maybe it's better to pander to the neanderthals then worry about the cowardly lions....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Music/11/01/people.streisand.ap/index.html

[NYCGirl]

49. He's also one of the founders and on the board of People for the American

Way, a wonderful progressive organization.

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=3686

[hughee99]

92. IIRC

The "gopig" that threw a drink at Barbara Streisand was a drunk Aussie, and wasn't doing it for any political reason, he was just drunk.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2560402

I would find it difficult to argue that "we liberals" did nothing while the freepers attacked the Dixie Chicks, Martin Sheen, Sean Penn, Michael Moore, Bill Maher, etc... I don't know Alec Baldwin personally, so perhaps the OP found the truth, he could just be a moron.

[Vinca]

6. You had respect for Baldwin? Don't you remember the

allegations of abuse by Bassinger? He's a pig.

[nickinSTL]

8. uh...allegations being the key word

I'm not defending him, and it's terrible if he was abusive, but until it's proven he was they are just allegations.

They were in a nasty custody battle, and sometimes in those situations things get said that aren't true...again, not saying Basinger was lying, but unless it's proven, they're still just allegations.

[uberblonde]

7. Baldwin plans to run for office some day.

So naturally, he's protecting his future interests. He's more interested in winning than doing the right thing.

[AtomicKitten]

9. It was also the opinion of the woman guest there too ...

an opinion they are entitled to have without the tsk-tsking of others and has nothing to do with rightwing spin. Many other leftwing pundits expressed the sentiment, also their opinion, that Kerry is finished for 2008. We don't have to all agree to be good solid Democrats.

[saracat]

10. Democrats , maybe.Solid? I think eating our own points to a lack of

conviction! Backing up a GOP based lie also doesn't sit well with me, but each to his own.

[AtomicKitten]

13. That's not the focus of their comments.

The latest brouhaha generated by Kerry merely punctuated it. They commented (and I am paraphrasing) he is a great guy and great Senator, but that he made a lousy national political candidate, punctuated again by this latest misstep (yes, not everyone thinks it was a plus like some of you do).

It really isn't fair to convey to people here that didn't see the program only part of the dialogue in order to create a strawman that you can burn down in your outrage. I don't think there is anyone that disagrees the Republicans used Kerry's misstatement to fuel their fake outrage. Seems rather ironic to me that you are using selective quotes to fuel yours.

[saracat]

22. Some don't think it was a misstep.And the fact that they say it is is a GOP talking point.

It was obvious Kerry was bashing Bush from the context.Even without the "us". Kerry NEVER should have apologized in any way.He should have ignored it.Harold Ford and Hillary Clinton are a disgrace.They are.And you will never convince me Hillary neede to say anything at all to win her race.And it isn't a strawman and it isn't unfair.And Kerry was not a lousy candidate.He got almost 60 million votes but he had a lousy party that was never really behind him.JMHO.And it is ironic that you have no problem with Kerry being pilliaried by "selective quotes" I find that ironic.

[AtomicKitten]

23. It really wasn't obvious at all.

We can state with reasonable certainty what he meant to say, but it isn't at all what he did say. And the Republicans capitalized on his words. You have to understand that you can't take to the bank what you mean to say but only what you actually do say.

And blaming Ford and Hillary for self-preservation when they are up for re/election next week is really unfair.

And you better get used to the idea that many solid Democrats (including me) did not vote for Kerry in the 2004 primary but worked their tails off for him in the general. And truth be told it was an ABB vote for many, many Democrats, and he won't be anywhere near the top of their list come 2008. Our nominee will be chosen by a consensus of Democrats, as always, and may the best Democrat win.

It would be nice if the Kerry supporters here at DU could muster the grace to be tolerant and respectful of others that don't support Kerry in favor of other candidates, but the truth is to some Kerry is god and all others fly shit. So, I guess we are all dealing with opinions that rub us the wrong way.

[saracat]

36. Are you serious? Hillary did this as an act of self preservation?

Are you snockered? There is nothing that could prevent Hillary from winning her Senate seat.It isn't as though she even has a real opponent. Who is her opponent BTW? I can't even remember.And our nominee in 2004 WAS chosen by a consensus of Democrats. I am sorry the choice wasn't to your liking.My family was split.My husband supported Wes Clark, who I really liked too but I supported Kerry.But this is not about 2004.This is about Dems believing Repuke talking points and spouting them themselves.I still say that is a disgrace.And I would defend any Dem whose words were twisted by that POS in the WH. As Carville said, "we are always right and they are always wrong" and that is the way we should handle these things and that is the code Hillary broke. I understand Ford more but I don't respect him for it and I don't think his comment was necessary or will get him any more votes.He is Black and a Democrat and nothing he has to say about a Kerry comment is going to change that or make him more acceptable to the type of voter he is courting.I heard one today on NPR say he wasn't a "real" Christian and she couldn't "trust his values" because he was a Democrat.

[AtomicKitten]

37. This election isn't about Kerry.

I don't care about John Kerry. I care about winning next week. And I know those not in the JK fan club here at DU feel the same way. It doesn't seem you have the perspective required to understand those kind of priorities and the fact that you got Alec Baldwin's comments entirely wrong, so I won't waste my time trying to reason with you and just riling you up further.

[saracat]

42. Wow!! Where did I say this election was about Kerry? I was

very clear as to the cause of my anger which was backstabbibng Dems.I would feel the same about this being done to ANY Dem. You just have a problem with Kerry and another with reading to comprehend so I guess your conclusions are to be expected.

[karynnj]

69. Also, Kerry has been out defending every body

else - including Bill Clinton. Is it asking too much for the Democrats to simply add that Kerry wasn't talking about the troops or Kerry supports the troops.

People want it both ways - that the smear is hurting all Democrats and that it is irrelevant - so there's no need to defend Kerry - who by the way should stay quiet so as to not hurt the elections - but a week from now he'll be asked why he stayed quiet.

[AZBlue]

45. What on earth are you thinking?

You know facts, logic and rational thinking have no place here on DU!

Sheesh!!

[karynnj]

71. But it was important to defend Bill Clinton?

[confludemocrat]

97. Tolerance and grace from Kerryites?--that'd be a switch!

I am hearing it all today from that crowd in trying to rehabilitate Kerry (and have heard it from them many times before)
>"eating our own" to question Kerrys capabilities and handling of his "joke" last week
>it's "GOP talking points" to say he is not a good 2008 candidate
>demanding to know who you support-like that would be fixed in one's mind now
> linking your opinions as blm does below with being alongside criminals and the corrupt who apocryphally Kerry exposed and brought to justice

and just plain making shit up

[AtomicKitten]

98. thank you for acknowleding that

they could use an intervention

[Blue_In_AK]

12. Agreed.

I was with him up until that point. He's obviously shilling for Hillary. Which is his right, of course -- but why in the hell can't Democrats back each other's play this close to the election?

[AtomicKitten]

15. no worries

I don't know why it upsets people that others are for candidates other than the one they support. That's a rather intolerant and unreasonable way to evaluate people, and tearing them down just for that is worse.

Hopefully neither Kerry nor Hillary will be our nominee in 2008. So, if you only agree with half that statement, are you only going to trash me half as much?

[Blue_In_AK]

20. No ax to grind with you, Atomic Kitten...

I just think it's rather sad that so many Democrats piled on when they knew full well what Kerry meant to say. To imply, as the Republicans did, that Kerry would EVER disrespect the troops is insane, and for Democrats to call on Kerry to apologize or to say that his comments were "inappropriate" (buying into, or, in my opinion, exploiting that misconception) is just as damaging. I'm of the camp that believes Kerry had no reason to apologize for anything -- explain, maybe -- but definitely not apologize.

[AtomicKitten]

21. I don't think any Dems thought he meant to say what he did -

just that it was an inopportune time for the gaffe. And then to let it go two news cycles without throwing a bucket of ice water on it dragged it out allowing the RNC to capitalize on it by issuing ads using the gaffe to slam other Democrats.

Let me reiterate: This isn't Kerry's fault. It's opportunistic Republicans and very bad timing.

Under normal circumstances, telling everyone to piss off would have been a reasonable response, but this occurring just a few days before an election complicated the matter. And I for one don't blame Ford or Hillary for saying whatever it took to get out from under the gaffe since they are both up for re/election and didn't cause the brouhaha. This isn't about Kerry but rather being on the brink of a really important election.

The problem is the selective grace issued around here. I try to look at the bigger picture and put myself in everyone's shoes. People here are spinning it as a good thing when I think the best we can hope for is that it will be just a fart in the breeze.

[BootinUp]

27. I don't think Democrats believed that spin

but some, like me initially thought he was making a factual observation about recruiting realities, and that it was a pretty big gaffe. That was because I did not see the context nor was I familiar with his recent speeches. Seeing more of the video removed the doubt. But the story exploded before I ever saw the longer clip.

[BootinUp]

26. heh, I imagine you will get double the fun. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

29. just an urban experiment , n/t

[election_2004]

14. Now watch Baldwin endorse Hillary for '08....

You can take that to the bank! :(

[NYCGirl]

17. I'll take a piece of that bet...I think you're wrong. NT

[election_2004]

19. And I hope you're right...

For all our sakes!

[AX10]

16. Alec didn't serve in the military.

He should just shut up.

[NYCGirl]

18. WTF does that have to do with it? NT

[roseBudd]

24. I think his comment was more about Kerry's penchant for verbal faux pas...

It is a reality that the verbal faux pas unless you play a dim wit can be the kiss of death.

[ruggerson]

25. He didn't say it was because of the "Joke"

he said it was because Kerry has a history of being an inept politician and this compounded that problem.

[bilgewaterbill]

38. I think you're right. Baldwin is still po'd that Kerry blew a prime

chance to defeat Bush in '04.

[Cha]

28. I'm disappointed that

alec baldwin is being disingenuous on this. I always pictured him as a straight shooter. Wonder if he has anyone in mind who he does think "would be fit to be a presidential candidate"?

I'm surprised that maher defended Kerry..if it were Gore..maher would twist the knife in deeper because he always has something snarkinfested to say about Al Gore.

[TSIAS]

30. Baldwin said he respected Kerry

And thought he was a great legislator and veteran.

It's hardly new news that Kerry has his flaws as a candidate. I hardly think this is some Baldwin effort to prop up Hillary.

Kerry supporters are going to have to develop much thicker skin if he does declare for President.

[Cha]

58. Good to

know.

[Blue_Roses]

31. you're taking what he said out of context

I watched it twice last night and what he meant was if you can't tell the joke DON'T. I thought Alec Baldwin was spot on about several things. First of all, Kerry is toast for '08 'cause this will be a campaign issue that will reek havic for him if he decides to run (even if it wasn't meant to be what it's being portrayed as).

Secondly, Alec said that the reason this has really hit a nerve with the people is because the "bar" is higher for Kerry and low for Bush. I totally agree. We have become so accustomed to Bush's dum comments, it's just par for the course. I think we expect more from Kerry.

[AZBlue]

32. The reality is we need an '08 candidate who won't commit goofs or gaffes

Kerry opened himself to it - I'm not saying it was right or that I believed for a moment he meant it the way it came out. But, we need someone who will think of every word coming out of their mouth before they say it - especially one week prior to an election. The media and right-wing spin is nothing new and wasn't invented just for this Kerry misstep - it was there long before and will still be around for a while and anyone in the public spotlight has to be aware of and cognizant of it and Kerry just doesn't seem to be.

[beachmom]

33. With video all over the internet, there is no such person. n/t

[blm]

48. We need carefully crafted sentences like...depends on what the definition of is is.

This is going to happen to ANY BODY. No one on earth has never dropped a PRONOUN.

Are you serious that any dropped pronoun eliminates someone because of a RW LIE MACHINE?

Geez - they CREATED a lie just as they created Clintons trashed the White House.

You either FIGHT THE LIE or be used as a fearful tool afraid of the lie machine.

[AZBlue]

81. I don't see how a supposed pronoun makes that comment any better.

eom

[blm]

88. What was wrong with the comment?

.

[robbob]

94. Really?

"you end up getting stuck in Iraq" vs. "you end up getting US stuck in Iraq"?

One could be interpreted as an slur on the intelligence and education of those serving in Iraq, the other is obviously a disparaging (and accurate) comment about an incurious, intellectually deficient moron of a president.

I don't think the missing pronoun was "supposed" (whatever you are implying by that); IIRC wasn't there a transcript of the prepared statements that made it clear the comment was a slight on b*, not the troops? Which of course you will never hear about in all the endless hours the "free" press have decided to waste on this non-issue.

[politicasista]

53. Name that candidate

Because if you think that what happened to Kerry won't happen to anyone else, then you are in for a rude awakening.

[zulchzulu]

84. There is no such human on this planet...

When you run for president, it takes millions of dollars, hundreds of speeches, hundreds of meet and greets, hours and hours of travel...and you have to be upbeat, spot on, super-confident, funny, incredibly knowledgeable on many issues and also be attractive.

You do that for two years straight...24/7...and have a staff that steers you perfectly through any storm.

You do that with every word, every movement and every off comment recorded to be able to be cheery-picked by the Repigs to use out of context and hammer on over and over with political ads.

Name any candidate out there and I can show you how their message can be demonized by the Repig Machine.

[lwcon]

34. I finally caught up with the show and...

I had mixed feelings about what Baldwin said and how he said it.

On the one hand, I think progressives need to be super clear about the most important thing: that the real scandal was the way that the President, McCain, Hillary Clinton and others played fast and loose with the facts and pretended that Kerry's comment was about anyone other than Bush. That was absolute bullshit, as was the media feeding frenzy that incented them to do so.

That said, I understand and agree with Baldwin's real point, which is telling John Kerry to stay out of the 2008 race.

Pardon me if you've seen this one already, but here are some thoughts about Kerry's attempt to reinvent himself as a funny, swaggering guy: http://vastleft.blogspot.com/2006/11/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so.html


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[sandnsea]

39. So you support Gore

Why is it that everybody else can only support their candidate by using the right's manufactured talking points?

Because there's nothing at all wrong with John Kerry, that's why.

[lwcon]

41. Thanks for the condescension

Guess what, some people have informed opinions that don't coincide with yours.

I was embarrassed watching Kerry try to become something he's not on Bill Maher's show a few weeks back and was unsurprised that his weak attempts at humor blew up in his face shortly thereafter.

I spent a lot of money and time supporting Kerry's campaign, and I've said many, many supportive things about him. But I think his reinvention's a bust, and until this snafu, I was afraid that the same backroom politics that turned him from also-ran to front runner in the 2004 Iowa Caucuses might happen again.


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[sandnsea]

44. There's never been a reinvention

That's the same John Kerry I saw plenty of times on the campaign trail. Just depended on the speech he was giving. "We're coming, you're going, don't let the door hit ya' on the way out" "I know something about aircraft carriers..." "we need a regime change in Washington"

Telling jokes is absolutely nothing new. Flubbing 3, count them-THREE, lines in 4 years is NOTHING. The only reason those lines get scrutiny is because there is absolutely NOTHING ELSE to go after him over. It's pathetic that our own Democrats are honestly so fucking stupid that they help Rove do it. How many really outlandish things has Howard Dean said - and I guarantee some of the same people pissing on Kerry right now would be ecstatic if Howard ran. I don't know why there's such a huge double standard, but there clearly is.

[lwcon]

59. Well, here's how I see it

1. Anyone who criticized Kerry's gaffe last week without clearly acknowledging that it was unequivocally a joke about Bush, and not about the troops, is either badly misinformed or a lying spin doctor. And that includes Democrats like Hillary Clinton, who threw Kerry under the bus.

2. The Kerry we saw on Bill Maher was pretty awkwardly and ineffectually playing at being a swaggering funny guy. Maybe there were signs of it before, I don't know, but I felt he'd be a lot better served staying the sober, thoughtful guy we proudly voted for in 2004.

3. Some Democrats still love and respect Kerry -- and think he did creditably in '04 and had the election stolen from him (literally, or at least figuratively, with the lies, distortions, and corrupted reportage) -- and yet still hope he does not run in '08, because there are other candidates who are better positioned to close the deal. My own list includes Gore, Feingold, Clark, and possibly Edwards. And maybe Obama, if he stops whoring himself out to the religious right.

4. If we saw something disconcerting about Kerry during this recent tempest in a teapot, it does not make us turncoats nor dupes for Republican talking points, so long as we're adamant that the "dissing our troops" accusation was total bullshit. He is, of course, a war hero twice over, serving with distinction in Vietnam, and then courageously opposing that misbegotten war. And I feel he followed his conscience by voting to help weapons inspectors get unprecedented access in Iraq, and then he did the right thing by opposing Bush's insane abuse of the war powers that had succeeded before a single bomb had been dropped.

5. The bottom line is, I think he's a good man and a mediocre candidate. I'm proud to have him as my senator, but I'm not optimistic that he could win in '08, where he'd likely face a media darling like John McCain or Mitt Romney.

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[sandnsea]

62. Number 5

You just don't get it. Whoever our candidate is in 2008 will take the same media pounding and you will be brainwashed into believing whatever the 'charicature' is at the end of the day. The fact that you believe HE couldn't win against a 'media darling', while somebody else could, is proof that you still don't get that YOU are influenced by the media against our own candidates.

Now if that isn't true, the only other logical conclusion is that you use the right wing media talking points against Kerry so your chosen candidate, Gore, will be more likely to run.

Forgetting, of course, that the media assault on him would be so ugly - boring, loser, liar, fat, crazy, reclusive retreat, I could just go on and on and on. You ought to make a mental note that it hasn't been done, to date.

[politicasista]

63. Exactly

As a Gore fan, I definitely agree. Truth hurts sometimes.

[lwcon]

64. Nope. It's you who doesn't get it.

If I were the stooge to rightwing talking points that you say I am...

* Why did I vigorously support Kerry in '04, and praise him in most respects ever since?
* Why am I actively supporting a (prospective) candidate who was comparably abused by the right wing in 2000, and who continues to be belittled by them every chance they get?

Apparently, there is no other conclusion one is allowed to form except that Kerry is the ideal candidate for '08. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a dupe.

Oh, and candidates do need to be able to communicate well, which is damned hard with today's so-called liberal media. It *is* a factor, but if you want to pick a fight with someone for being shallow in their choices, you might want to look elsewhere than a fan of the wonky Mr. Gore.

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[sandnsea]

67. Oh okay, let's compare - just 'gaffes', shall we??

Just come on - get real. There is NO comparison on the basis of communication and gaffes between Gore and Kerry. None whatsoever. If you're looking for someone the liberal media can't pick apart, it sure isn't Al Gore.

John Kerry:

I voted for the $87 billion, before I voted against it. To explain that there were two pieces legislation and he supported paying for the war as we go instead of running into debt as we have.

I would have voted to give the President authority - which isn't voting for the war by any stretch.

And the latest - getting stuck in Iraq.

Oooh the horror!!!

Al Gore:

"I accompanied James Lee Witt down to Texas when those fires broke out." (Witt was never in Texas, Gore was headed to a fundraiser.)

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet"

"A zebra does not change its spots."

"..that we can be e pluribus unum -- out of one, many."

I've spent the night on a dairy farm here in Wisconsin. If I'm entrusted with the presidency, you'll have someone who is very familiar with what the Wisconsin dairy industry is all about."

"He is proposing to privatize a big part of Social Security and he's proposing to take $1 trillion, a million billion dollars out of the Social Security trust fund and give it as a tax incentive to young workers."

"...it is written in the book of Matthew, 'Where your heart is, there's your treasure also."

"Speaking from my own religious tradition in this Christmas season, 2,000 years ago a homeless woman gave birth to a homeless child in a manger because the inn was full."

"When we come here, we see the longpole pine and the Douglas fir."

[AtomicKitten]

72. no one begrudges you the opportunity and certainly not DU

to post whatever consolation you can dream up to make yourselves feel better, regardless of how delusional it is.

The truth is Al Gore polls either #1 or #2 (only to Wes Clark) CONSISTENTLY at DU, while Kerry polls CONSISTENTLY in the low-middle of the pack. In the real world, Al Gore CONSISTENTLY polls #2 to HRC, with Obama starting to poll well (it's all good), and Kerry CONSISTENTLY polling low-middle of the pack.

I am really pleased you and yours have had the opportunity to expose the fact that you care more for the political longevity of one fading politician over the fate of the party this coming week. It speaks volumes.

So, please, by all means cling to whatever consolation you can muster regardless of how anorexic it is. It seems very real to you; we understand that. No skin off our nose.

[lwcon]

82. Over and out

I've made my case about why I don't think Kerry should be in the 2008 race. He's a super guy, and I don't want to pile on about it.

Simply put, the reinvigorated Gore knocks me -- and a lot of other people -- out, in a way the post '04 Kerry doesn't.

I don't disagree one whit about how ugly it is out there for a Dem candidate. Whoever becomes the frontrunner / nominee will be ripped apart by wolves (or rather, Fox News and its brethren). We're all struggling to figure out who can somehow survive that onslaught and then lead as a true progressive.

Peace out.


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[blm]

51. What sane person would tell a guy who received 60-65 million votes that they

can't handle the campaign?

Gore got 5 million more votes than Clinton and Kerry got 10 million more votes than Gore.

If the DNC had done THEIR job for the four years in between elections, then both Gore and Kerry would have had the votes they EARNED counted.

Give in to the lies or FIGHT THE LIES. I side with fighting the lies.

[AtomicKitten]

73. In 2004 my dog would have garnered 60-65 million votes against Bush

eom

[blm]

74. I doubt it.

.

[AtomicKitten]

77. Seriously, a Seven & Renfield ticket would have been

an ABB ticket that voters might have really responded to and BushCo would have been toast.

[NYCGirl]

78. Seven looks like he could beat Bush in the debates, but Cheney might have

tried to eat Renfield! Gotta watch out for Darth Cheney!

[lwcon]

83. As I've said...

... I didn't think Kerry was the ideal choice in '04 (and it was a *choice*, made in the Iowa caucuses, not a grassroots phenomenon). And, IMHO, he over-performed -- he did pretty well. I'm not going to condemn the guy. But my confidence isn't high that he's a stronger candidate now. In fact, I think he's stopped being himself, and is a less able candidate.

Gore, on the other hand, is showing his best stuff now. He made a reasonable, but probably regrettable (we'll never know how things would have gone otherwise), decision to try to stay above the sleaze in the post-impeachment political climate, much as Kerry did with the Swift Boaters. It accentuated his "stiffness," and I think he was incredulous about the equivalation in the media that treated an ignorant chimp as a worthy competitor, hence the offending sighs.

Since then, he's focused, engaging, and productive. Here's one "vote" for him to join the '08 fray.


___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[MattP]

40. I have a problem with Kerry

The way Kerry backed out of Ohio and didn't challenge the vote in 2004 might have set democracy back a generation.

[saracat]

43. What part of they refused to release the evidence and could not be

compelled to do so by a Bushco controlled judicial system do you not understand? Kerry STILL has petitions pending in Ohio that will NEVER be resolved.But forget it.For some ignorance is bliss.

[blm]

50. The DNC did that by not securing the election process back in 2001 as they

PROMISED TO DO.

They controlled how the votes would be counted from 2001 thru 2004. They didn't secure the process.

[Nedsdag]

54. Sorry.

It doesn't matter how much the DNC did or did not do to secure the election process. If you are a bad candidate or run a lousy campaign, be prepared to lose. You can secure the process all over the place; however, if you don't answer to your critics and/or if you make sloppy gaffes, it'll show up in the election results.

[blm]

56. Gore and Kerry both won in 2000 and 2004. Unsecured election process cost

them the votes they earned.

Exit polls showed Kerry winning by almost 5% against the most media-protected president in history. That wasn't a fluke. BushInc had to work overtime for months to suppress votes, purge voter rolls and rig machines all over the country to stay in power.

If Kerry ran a bad campaign as people want to say, BushInc wouldn't have HAD to work so hard to steal it.

Logic wins over lies. Liars need media to protect them and distort perception. I don't fall for that crap and I don't give in to LIES no matter where they are coming from, right or left.

[Nedsdag]

65. If they were better candidates

They would've won with a higher percentage of votes. Then they would not have to depend on the unsecured election process. In 2000, the Bush campaign were more concerned about winning New Jersey that they nearly forgot about Florida. Plus Gore closed his campaign in Ohio and failed to use Clinton until the last moment.

[blm]

66. That's illogical. The machines are rigged by percentages.

And maybe Clinton should have been smart enough to stop saying PUBLICALLY how he supported Bush at every crucial juncture from 2001 through 2004. Fer chrissakes, every time he got on camera he would be praising Bush to Larry King and commiserating with poor Bush doing the best he can in a very difficult job.

It also didn't help that Clinton waited till Sept 2006 to counter the charges he was to blame for 9-11. He only waited till AFTER 8 books came out claiming it was.


And maybe Clinton wasn't so smart to run the DNC into the ground in favor of their targeted states strategy they had in place since the 94 election. Every red and swing state party infrastructure was collapsed by 1997.

[Nedsdag]

68. I'm talking about the Clinton of 2000

not the Clinton of 2004. Stop blaming the process. Blame the candidates and the candidates surrogates.

[blm]

70. Kerry won by 5%. The exit polls said so, and so did RFKs investigation.

I blame the DNC for ignoring 4 years of the RNC working to suppress votes, purging voter rolls and gaining control of the input and output of the vote count.

It was the job of the DNC's Offic of Voter Integrity who promised us that a 2000 theft would never happen again. How did they do?

[Nedsdag]

80. You can blame the DNC all you want

But it still comes down to the candidate and the candidate's operatives weren't up to the job.

[blm]

87. Candidates can't work for 4 years to secure the election process when it's

their job for the 6 months they are the nominee to craft the better policy positions, dominate and win the debates, and campaign all over the country constantly with just a few days off.

Kerry won all his matchups with Bush - how did the DNC do securing the election process so those votes wouldn't be purged, suppressed or stolen?

BTW - how did the left media perform against the RW media machine?

Care to opine on that?

According to you, Bush ran a great campaign and won. The RNC had nothing to do with it - Bush was just THAT good, eh?

[wisteria]

46. Me too, any way to get in touch with him? n/t

[Sensitivity]

47. The New Politics of slime may be too dirty for good men like Kerry

[wisteria]

60. This administration has reached a new low. No good people will

ever want to get involved in politics. What does this say about many of those who are in their now.

I am not losing hope. We need a new direction and we need to clear out washington of the slime. I still believe Kerry can prevail by taking the higher ground. There is only so much dirt people are willing to swallow.

[sendero]

52. JK...

... isn't fit to be a presidential candidate again, but it has nothing to do with a botched joke.

[blm]

57. Fit? The man who exposed more government corruption than any other lawmaker

is unfit for the oval office where it will be necessary to expose the crimes of BushInc?

I would guess that alot of people who are part of Bush's crime ring the past 30 plus years would agree with you.

[sendero]

75. I misspoke..

.... he is not fit to BE ELECTED president, he simply doesn't have the oratorical chops, the charisma, the ability to connect with people, or any of the other intangibles that are required in the age of TV.

[blm]

76. I think things mediawise will be alot different - I don't expect media to edit

and chop him up the way they did in 2003 and 2004.

I think some in the media regret that it happened, and I also expect that there will be some major changes in corporate media by 2008. Kerry will be able to call for hearings to overturn FCC ruling that discarded the restrictions on corporate media, something Kerry already has had in his sights since 2003.

BTW - misspeaks happen...... to everybody....no one is immune. I do appreciate you clearing it up, though.

[sendero]

79. Kerry's media....

.. problems have nothing to do with their bias. On his best day, he is simply not inspirational.

That said, I defended him here over the "botched joke", and think any Dem pol who piled on is a snake. Kerry isn't inspirational, he isn't charismatic, but he isn't a snake either.

[blm]

85. He's inspiring and inspirational to me.

And I happen to be quite the expert on "sizzle" when it comes to people, men and women. What Kerry is is too modest, but then, that turns people like me on. I can't stand faux "loveguys" and go for the heart, brains, and character.

[sendero]

90. Sorry..

... you are not the typical American. If you were, he'd be president already.

[blm]

95. True - I understand that though being dirt poor growing up and beaten by a

fundie mother for reading books, my life has been made more unusual just because of my outward appearance.

I hope that postKatrina, postIraq war chaos the American people will look towards strong policies and competent OPEN government over glibness and secrecy.

And I also believe that there isn't anyone else with the better chops than Kerry has for an overall campaign from primaries, Dem debates, general and presidential debates.

The fact that he's anti-corruption after the most corrupt administration in his history is a HUGE factor for me.

[saracat]

86. And Bush OR his father did??????? We have only had two presidents that

fit that description Clinton and JFK. Good luck finding another, and NO I don't think Obama is the "one " either! There was really nothing wrong with Kerry except what the media did to him.He is really quite presidential and his oratory is fine.What you apparently have a problem with is it IS oratory not "down home and laid back" each to his own!

[sendero]

89. Wow...

.. you folks are so out of it. YES George Bush is quite accomplished at working a crowd, or at least he WAS. He got elected TWICE, being the EXACT OPPOSITE of JK.


Where were Dubya's "qualifications"? He had none and yet he was elected. Kerry's got them out the waazzoo, but he was not. See a pattern here? Do you freaking understand that in this country the election is not about who would make the best president, it's a freaking speech contest? Same for Reagan BTW all talk, all smooth banter.

Stop wishing the country was something it is not. The American people are too fucking lazy and stupid to care about something like "qualifications" and they will remain so for the foreseeable future, at least until the country is in REAL trouble and everyone is looking for answers. Right now, a person like JK who cannot get in front of a camera and impress people is going in the race on one leg.

[saracat]

91. You folks? Excuse me.I am a Democrat not some part of another group

to be labeled "you folks" like I was an outsider.And I was never making this about John Kerry but Democrats who back stab. Apparently this is just fine with you which is why we have problems getting elected. Democrats will destroy themselves.

I vehemently disagree with your comments and think it is a disgrace that the standard bearer of our party be treated so shabbily by people who haven't done a pittance of what he has or sacrificed as much for this nation.

John Kerry has bled both physically and financially for this country and believe it or not, he used to be known as the "charismatic junior Senator from Massachusetts".That was when the media liked him.Nothing has changed it is just that some are such lemmings they persist in regurgitating the GOP talking points.It absolutely sickens me to see any Democrat including DUers do that.Enough said .I am thoroughly disgusted.

[wisteria]

61. He is truly fit to be President. A real President-not a mockery of one. n/t

[Dob Bole]

93. You are worthless Alec Baldwin, you are Worthless Alec Baldwin

If you watch the credits of Team America: World Police long enough, Kim Jong Il starts singing this song:

I was sent from planet Gyron to conquer the Earth
I had a terrific plan
I thought it would work
Tried to get the earthlings all to kill each other
You see
But it all went wrong and now I must decree

You are worthless, Alec Baldwin
You are worthless, Alec Baldwin
You failed in every way and now my stock in you has fallen.
Your career is stalling’ and you’re worthless, Alec Baldwin
That’s why I blew your head off
And your children are all Baldwin

Planet Gyron is inhabited with Zypods like me
But also with Balmacks who are giant bees
The Zypods and the Balmacks are at constant war
So we wanted a new home and that’s what Earth was for

But you are worthless, Alec Baldwin
You are worthless, Alec Baldwin
You fucked up my whole plan
And now Gyron is smeared with Balmack Pollen

Your garbage needs some hauling’
And you’re worthless, Alec Baldwin
Now I must return home a failure
I’m afraid the pit of Cry rock is calling

[ChipsAhoy]

96. What an ASS!

I lost respect for him when he promised to leave the country when Bushy won, yet he's still here. He could have made a real statement and followed through with his threat. He's a liar and deserves NO respect.