Some Call It ‘Botched’ — Kerry Played the GOP

[kerrygoddess]

Some Call It ‘Botched’ — Kerry Played the GOP
November 5th, 2006 @ 2:11 pm

Here we are a couple of days before the mid-terms and the D.C. pundit and consultant society would rather carp about John Kerry’s comment last Monday that created a rather ridiculous firestorm from the right wing. We all know that some in the trade are already lined up with their chosen ‘08 candidates — these would be the same genius pundits and consultants, who in ‘02 believed Democrats needed to take national security “off the table” by voting for the Iraq War. And they are the same people who just a few months ago thought Democrats shouldn’t be debating Iraq and decided a lobbying scandal should be the central issue of the mid-term elections. Well, they are at it again, now attacking John Kerry for joke that was botched but others have noted made a lot of sense.

Let’s get a little perspective here people, this classic inside the beltway story belongs buried in the archives of website, and on the eve of a very real election that will change the political landscape, we should all be forgetting the hype over this by now.

Susannah Meadows claims in NEWSWEEK that Democrats are assessing the damage done to the party (and Kerry’s ‘08 chances) by John Kerry’s ‘botched’ joke. Well, I already noted here the other day day that Kerry was helping the party and polls have shown that there was no damage. In fact, polls show that Democrats are carrying the 50 toughest Republican districts out there and are winning big on the top issue in this election – Iraq. Yes, John Kerry had the audacity and the guts to hold Bush and the GOP accountable for this miserably failed war in Iraq. He pushed the envelope, he pushed the issue to the forefront and he proved what this fight is really about – Iraq. Some call it ‘botched’ but the fact is Kerry helped to push the Iraq issue to the limelight in the final days of this election cycle and he helped to spell out disaster for Republicans in this election.

When all was said and done, Kerry made the selfless choice to put the Democratic party first by deciding to come off the campaign trail last week, simply because he refused to let the Republican Hate Machine (aka the Republican Noise Machine) who Susannah Meadows is shilling for in NEWSWEEK, use Democratic candidates as proxies in their sick, twisted, distorted spin war.

John Kerry refused to be part of any distraction in this campaign, from the issues or from any candidate whose name is on the ballot. This choice, this election is far too important to the country, and this fight is far too important to John Kerry. Period.

Kerry’s early commitment in this critical campaign made a difference to countless candidates. He stepped up and gave so many the resources to compete. Like his fellow veterans — Iraq war vet Tammy Duckworth running in Illinois and Admiral Joe Sestak in Pennsylvania. It was because Kerry donated early and big to these campaigns that these candidates were able to run hard to change the direction of this country. John Kerry’s commitment to his fellow veteran candidates has been unparalleled in our party. Kerry gave over 1 million dollars to Democratic veteran candidates and campaigned longer and harder for them than anyone else out there.

{snip}
Even Bill O’Reilly of Fox News got it: “I don’t believe that John Kerry meant to demean any American military member, I just don’t, and I think that fair-minded people know that would be political suicide for the senator and he wouldn’t do it.”

Yes, some Washington Democrats continue to be cautious. And that is why many Democrats from the east coast to the west have worries about the cautious crowd — like Hillary Clinton.

As Joan Vennochi of the Boston Globe wrote in her column yesterday about the Democrats who turned on John Kerry this week, “Kerry’s fellow Democrats… cut and run from their presidential nominee of just two years ago. Democrats are supposedly on the cusp of regaining power in Washington. If it happens, it will be because the public lost faith in Bush and one-party control…The GOP huffs and puffs like the Wizard of Oz. Even after the curtain is pulled back to reveal Karl Rove feverishly revisiting Lee Atwater’s playbook, Democrats are still the cowardly lion. Why make the minor mistakes of a man who isn’t president more important than the deadly mistakes of the man who is?”

Cut-and-run Democrats… The Seattle Post-Intelligencer editorial board wrote: “Apologies? Sure, from the cut-and-run Democratic candidates who’ve cancelled appearances with Kerry.”

Here’s a fact — No one in the Democratic party has stood up against this war in Iraq more than John Kerry. Time and time again, John Kerry has called the Bush Administration out for sending young Americans to fight and die in a war, when BushCo and Congressional Republicans have nothing but a stubborn, miserably failed strategy, and no plan for success.

{snip}
No one has fought harder for our veterans, troops and military families than John Kerry. For 35 years he has led the fight to keep the promise with our veterans and his brothers in arms. He spearheaded the effort to provide a full accounting of missing US soldiers in Vietnam. He made it among his first priorities after the 2004 election to enact a Military Family Bill of Rights. John Kerry has stood up and led the fight for veterans and the troops over and over again. He fought to help victims of Agent Orange. And now, today he leading the fight to help our troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan who are suffering from PTSD. PTSD, something the Bush administration would prefer to deny exists.

So, while the shills ask what Kerry’s ‘botched’ joke means for the future — I have a good answer for them.

{snip}
While some call it ‘botched’ others see the reality — Kerry opened up the flood gates on Iraq at a critical time right before the election. Anyone who thinks that Kerry is “radioactive among Democrats” can think again. Plenty of activists are standing behind Kerry, plenty of activist still have his back, like Mark Gorenberg, Kerry’s former finance chair for California, who told NEWSWEEK “he would definitely be with Kerry if he ran in ‘08.” That goes for plenty of Democrats I know as well. John Kerry will re-emerge from this tougher, stronger and with more of a fighting spirit than ever — the fact is you can’t keep a good man down — and you sure as hell can’t keep John Kerry down!

Some call it ‘botched’, but some see it for what it really was — Kerry played the GOP and they fell right into his hand.

MORE & LINKS - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=4653

[smoogatz]

1. Generic polls tightening (especially among indies):

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=295

Yep, Kerry's got them right where they want him.

[ProSense]

2. Funny, thing about polling:

[blm]

3. Polls also showed military votes up for Dems since Nov 1.

Most polls will show tightening towards the end because they go after "likely voters" at this point. Likely voters always skew heavily Republican, especially for midterms where they have been most dependable in the past. It completely disregards the energized Democratic vote this cycle.

[ProSense]

5. Pew trend

.......................................Rep...Dem..Unsure
Pew RV....10/17-22/06........ 38.... 49......13
Pew RV.....9/21 - 10/4/06.... 38.... 51......11
Pew RV ....9/6-10/06.......... 39.....50......11


http://www.pollingreport.com/2006.htm

[Mass]

17. WaPo article - Democrats, on the Offensive, Could Gain Both Houses

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2929820

[mtnsnake]

4. Kerry botched it plain & simple, but keep living in denial if you must

Not only did he botch it, but he was dead wrong to even attempt a joke like that about the military.

I don't know of any Democrats who weren't totally embarrassed by his brain cramp other than the Kerry afficionadoes on this forum.

[rockymountaindem]

7. It was not a joke about the military

It was a joke about Bush. The military wasn't part of it at all.

[mtnsnake]

8. It was a joke that USED the military. It was lame & embarrassing.

[MH1]

10. No, it didn't.

It was about Bush not having a frickin' clue about foreign policy or getting us out of Iraq once we invaded.

Would you have 75% of Bush's failures be off-limits to joke writers?

[rockymountaindem]

12. No it wasn't

Where's the military involved in that joke? Other than where the Republicans are trying to make us see it when it's not there, that is.

[mtnsnake]

16. Oh for crise sake. Who are the people who "get stuck in Iraq"? The military.

Wake up.

[ProSense]

24. The joke was about Bush. You're the only one,

other than those who are intentionally repeating the RW distortion, that doesn't seem to get it!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=2919&mesg_id=2919

http://video.johnkerry.com/video/flash/103106_countdown.html

[mtnsnake]

25. Yeah, it was so harmless that our Dems had to put a muzzle on him

so he wouldn't jeopardize our chances anymore than he already did with his botched up useless joke. Funny how he isn't anywhere to be seen until at least this coming Wednesday.

Oh, and enough with the "intentionally repeating the RW distortion" nonsense. I don't listen to their crap, just like you don't. Any conclusions I make are my own, so if you don't agree with it, blame me for being dumb or something, but not for being influenced by the right wing. If something I say happens to sound like something you heard the RW say, then chalk it up to either coincidence or we're both right. Take your pick.

[sandnsea]

28. You support Hillary, that's your right

It's your right to advocate for whatever candidate you want in the primary. But don't think it isn't obvious when it's being done. And don't think you can just slime everybody else out of the primary because it's not going to happen. I don't know who the last 'man' standing will be in 2008, but I damn well guarantee it's not going to be Hillary.

[mtnsnake]

32. Clark & Obama are my favorites consistently, but just the fact that you

have to throw in a Hillary angle proves how pathetic it can get on this forum. Granted, it appears to people like you that I "support" Hillary because I've spent enough time refuting the many many blatant lies that some people seem to love ramming down everyone's throats about her.

So get off you high horse by implying that I'm bashing Kerry because I'm supporting Hillary. How lame. I'm criticizing Kerry for his brain fart, nothing more, nothing less. Deal with that.

[sandnsea]

38. Then you've changed your position

Because you were a Hillary supporter some time ago. And the point doesn't change anyway, because Clark supporters do the Kerry Bash too and have since the day after the election.

This is incredibly sick because I've never seen Kerry people bash Clark or Gore, specifically, the way their supporters bash Kerry. If Hillary would stop manipulating everything behind the scenes, we wouldn't be bashing her either.

[mtnsnake]

47. Here, you just don't get it so for the last time, just for you:

I have often stuck up for Hillary because of so many arrogant and blatant lies that so often get hurled around on this forum about her. Because I stick up for her doesn't mean that she IS my favorite candidate, ever WAS my favorite candidate, or ever WILL be. For the record, though, I do think she'd make a fine president if she ever got elected, and I would totally support her if she won the primary. I've CONSISTENTLY said that Wesley Clark is my favorite candidate with Obama probably being my second favorite. Lately, I'm leaning almost toward hoping for Obama first, only because I think he'd have a better chance at actually winning a general election than Clark would. Gee, is that all right with you that I might switch Obama to my first choice instead of Clark?

This forum can be the greatest thing on earth, but it can also be such a friggin waste of energy at times like this.

[sandnsea]

50. When it's used to bash Democrats

It sure is. So stop doing it. How hard is that? You were wrong.

Here's what Admiral Sestak had to say - are you going to disagree with him??

"There is something I have learned after 31 years in the military, that I was in a wonderful brotherhood, a wonderful sisterhood that withstands all of time and eternity. Yes I would stand with John Kerry. Because I also learned in those 31 years to look a man in the eye and get the cut of his jib. He is an honest man. He said it was a joke. He would stand by me in war, as he volunteered in the middle of a war for combat. I would stand with him right here today. Absolutely.”

[w4rma]

95. I can't stand it when people disappear from debates when they get shown up by a fact

that they can't counter. They disappear, rather than admit they were wrong, usually to come back elsewhere and tout the same lies.

[mtnsnake]

121. I can't stand it when people like you can't read or don't take the time to

In your case it's just a chance to pile on and keep the flames going. Be my guest. lol

[w4rma]

138. And again you proved my point by not responding to sandnsea's point. (nt)

[mtnsnake]

141. I responded more than once. Your MO is obvious.

Give it up.

[w4rma]

172. Here's what Admiral Sestak had to say - are you going to disagree with him??

"There is something I have learned after 31 years in the military, that I was in a wonderful brotherhood, a wonderful sisterhood that withstands all of time and eternity. Yes I would stand with John Kerry. Because I also learned in those 31 years to look a man in the eye and get the cut of his jib. He is an honest man. He said it was a joke. He would stand by me in war, as he volunteered in the middle of a war for combat. I would stand with him right here today. Absolutely.”

Since you have been responding to me, maybe you'll respond to this point if it is in my post.

[ProSense]

39. Well, if Hillary Clinton didn't know

that Kerry was talking about Bush and not criticizing the troops, then she isn't very astute!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBywaYuScCk

[Mass]

45. And far from a telephone.

[politicasista]

40. From all the replies in this thread

it sounds like you are bashing Kerry with RW media spin and lies. The joke was NOT about the military. It was about Bush.

You think that dumping on Kerry while promoting Clark and Obama makes them look good?

If you think the corporate media will go easy on Clark and Obama, and they won't have gaffes than you are in for a rude awakening. No candidiate/politician is perfect period.

What happened to Kerry will happen to whoever the nominee is in 08. And that's the truth.

[mtnsnake]

49. Funny how not 1 of you Kerry loyalists can ever listen to an iota of criticism

about him without accusing people of doing it because they support some other candidate or because they're repeating right wing spin, or yada yada yada. If John Kerry was so perfect, then how did he lose to an imbecile?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mtnsnake]

57. So suck on that? I wouldn't expect anything better from you, so I'm not

surprised.

BTW, Bush isn't running for anything so I don't know how we can "lose to him AGAIN".

Nice try

[sandnsea]

60. lol, this is a referendum on Bush

and the overall Republican Congress. And we're having a very tough time winning and people are 100 times more angry now than they were in 2004. So this whole 'couldn't beat Bush' is a bunch of hogwash. Every other candidate would have finished down in the 30's the way McGovern did.

[blm]

101. Kerry won his matchups against Bush. How did the DNC do against the RNC?

How did the left media do against the RW machine?

[mtnsnake]

118. FANTASY: Kerry ran the perfect campaign. FACT: His campaign was botched

the entire time, just like that joke the other day. Stop blaming the DNC and put it where it belongs.

[blm]

120. Fact: Kerry won and outmatched Bush in every area he controlled.

Fact: DNC did not repair the party infrastructure in many states during the 4 years of Terry McAuliffe's reign there, and never secured the election process as they promised in 2001 when they opened an Office of Voter Integrity.

If Kerry ran such a bad campaign why on earth would RNC go to such lengths to suppress votes, purge voter rolls and rig machines all over the country?

[mtnsnake]

123. FACT: Worst campaign ever. RESULT: He lost to a moron.

[blm]

129. Worst campaigns wouldn't have resulted in 60-65 million votes and the DNC

not securing the election process in the four years they were charged with doing so, was the worst scenario for ANY Democratic candidate.

Worst campaigns don't dominate the debates against a sitting president. Worst campaigns don't craft outstanding policy positions. Worst campaigns don't have 30-80,000 people at their rallies.

You think Bush EXCELLED over Kerry while the DNC excelled over the RNC?

Kerry beat Bush, just like Gore beat Bush, but the dNC was too weak in too many crucial states to get their votes counted, especially at the county and precinct level where the votes are counted.

[AtomicKitten]

180. It was Dem outrage that fueled that ABB vote.

eom

[blm]

185. Dem outrage didn't show up on stage at the debates and dominate them.

Alot more people voted for Kerry than just outraged Dem activists.

[AtomicKitten]

193. whatever rationalization gets you through the day

[blm]

197. sure - I just made that up - - Kerry didn't dominate the debates, Bush did.

And the only rational reason Kerry got so many votes is that every person is just like you and voted against Bush.


Rationalization, eh?

Projection is running rampant. And getting SO boring.

Back to the EXCITING, anti-corruption, open government wing of the Democratic party for me. You have fun with your preferred wing, ok?

[AtomicKitten]

199. self-delete

[AtomicKitten]

200. Back to the actual topic ....

Kerry fucked up and your tag-team isn't content to just hope for the best. Most people here including me were pretty cool about this whole thing, that is until you tried to sell this as brilliant political strategy. It was not. In fact, it has already impacted the independent vote.

But thanks for playing.
Drive through.

Oh, by the way, THERE IS AN ELECTION TOMORROW that is infinitely more important than this crap that we hear here 24/7 nonstop. Have the common courtesy to stuff a sock in it for once.

[blm]

202. I've called 84 people today on my Dem call list. Maybe take your own advice and lay off

supporting Bush's lies against Kerry so people who bother you, like Kerry supporters, won't feel the need to correct the lies started by BushInc.

[AtomicKitten]

203. blah, blah, blah, blah

Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry
Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry
Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry
Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry
Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry
Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry
Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry
Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry
Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry

[ProSense]

204. OMG! n/t

[blm]

205. Sweet dreams.

I still have 47 Dem households to call.

[confludemocrat]

165. Insane spin of Kerry f'up & all the Kerry operatives are here for support

every last one of 'em or should I say all 15 of them. Losers.

[Tellurian]

175. Actually, It's 3 people using 5 pseuds apiece...

:rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

181. the Ministry of Kerry Spin is out in force

war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
Kerry is a brilliant political strategist

[Tellurian]

182. They probably hoodwinked Kerry into paying 15 people

all going into 3 pockets..

The "Legend in their OWN minds", still lives.
But only in their own mind, mind you! :hi:

[AZBlue]

192. Consider the source

And by that I mean: check out the screen name of the person who posted the OP.

'Nuff said.

[ProSense]

34. Kerry is not responsible for their timidity, but

he will put the party first. He wants the Democrats to win!

“During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet,” Gore said. “I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country’s economic growth, environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.” On the whole, this was the kind of chest-thumping statement which candidates routinely make on the stump. But as anyone who followed this election will know, Gore’s initial, sixteen-word comment was widely dissected for the next twenty months. Almost surely, Gore’s brief remark about the Net was the most widely-discussed statement of Campaign 2000. The spinning of this one remark drove a nasty War Against Gore—a spin campaign which almost surely decided the 2000 race.

Gore’s remark would be widely attacked. But surprise! At the time Gore made his statement, it received no attention whatever. Blitzer didn’t ask Gore to explain his remark; he showed no surprise at what Gore had said. And in its on-air promotions for the taped interview, CNN showed no sign of thinking that Gore had “made news” with his comment. Meanwhile, major papers which covered Gore’s interview completely ignored the comment. On March 10, for example, the Washington Post ran a full report about the Gore-Blitzer session. But the paper only discussed Gore’s remarks on U.S. relations with China. On March 11, the Washington Times’ Greg Pierce reviewed the interview in his “Inside Politics” column. But Pierce only mentioned what Gore had said about early campaign polling. Similarly, the AP’s dispatches about Gore’s interview completely ignored his Internet comment. And another major organ passed over Gore’s statement. On March 10, the Hotline—the widely-read, on-line digest of the day’s political news—ran extensive excerpts from the Late Edition Q-and-A’s, but omitted the Internet remark altogether. In fact, in the first two days after Gore’s appearance, no press entity remarked, in any way, on what Gore said about the Net. Gore’s comment would be critiqued, attacked, burlesqued and spun over the course of the next twenty months. But it evoked no reaction from the press—none at all—at the time Gore made it. Repeat: No one in the press said even one word about Gore’s statement at the time it was made. No one showed the slightest sign of thinking Gore’s comment was notable.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh120302.shtml

The difference is that Democrats didn't attack Gore. Then there was Hillary Clinton's vast right wing conspiracy, which to this day Democrats are still defending Clinton against right wing attacks!

Now take Kerry's controvery, a faux pas out of thin air. In context, Kerry's statement was only made into a controversy through distortion. He was clearly criticizing Bush, and this has been pointed out over and over again. There was/is no excuse for anyone to claim otherwise.

By any measure, Kerry's statement was harmless, the distortion easily debunked, but the Democrats gave the RW an opening to continue the smear.

[Tellurian]

176. But Kerry's handling after the botched joke...is what you're in denial about..

The BAD advise...Like the 'dropped pronoun' schtick as a valid argument
is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Kerry even considering such childish
thinking as a viable excuse to himself does make one wonder why he is unable
to think for himself and this behavior scares the BEGESUS out of investors.
They won't back someone they feel is too big a risk!

Kerry isn't known as the 'Comeback Kid!'

He's a slow and steady wins the race without a backup plan for a slip and fall.

[rockymountaindem]

27. No, the *person* who is stuck in Iraq is *Bush*

Why are you buying the Republican spin on this? They're the only ones saying this was about the military. Well, not including you of course. I'm not the one who needs to wake up.

[fedupinBushcountry]

31. No

you wake up and get yourself out of the spin machine. My God do you hate Kerry that much that you push swift boat lies. You should be ashamed.

[mtnsnake]

41. You're out of your mind to say something that's so far fetched like that out of sheer

desperation and your inability to grasp reality.

Show me one fucking post where I ever said or implied I "hate Kerry". I've done nothing but bash what he said last week in his botched joke. I'm gonna wait right here all fucking night long for you to show me where I ever have posted my hatred toward Kerry. On the contrary, I've always shown Kerry respect, but have never been afraid to bash him for the atrocious campaign he ran in 2004.

I'm waiting. Put your money where your mouth is bigmouth.

[fedupinBushcountry]

46. eeeeew, I'm scared

what's that matter truth get to you. EOM.

[mtnsnake]

52. I guess you can't come up with anything, can you.

Thanks for proving me right. Next time maybe you'll think before you post any bullshit about someone.

[bunny planet]

61. the line was supposed to be 'get us stuck in Iraq.'

that would be Bush. Kerry had told the same joke a few times in other campaign appearances and had included the missing word 'us'.
You wake up.

[mtnsnake]

63. No kidding

but he left it out so it got perceived by the dimwits that it meant all the wrong things.

He botched it. If you don't think he botched it, then you don't need to explain to me about the word "us" that he left out.

You wake up

I just wanna wake up Wednesday to a Democratic Congress!

[bunny planet]

78. me too, I want absolutely nothing more in life at the moment than to win back

Congress.

Of course I think Kerry botched it. But if the media didn't do its usual pile on and help the Republicans twist what they absoulutely knew to be a botched joke and never by any stretch of the imagination a joke meant at the expense of the troops. And if Dems had stood behind him, the Republicans could not have done another swiftboat attack on him as easily. I still don't think it was effective but I was sickened by the Democrats that jumped on board and threw Kerry under the bus, almost as disgusting as McCain.

[blm]

103. Well, if you KNEW the dropped word was us, meaning the COUNTRY, then why did you post

that he was referring to the military in your post upthread, which is what BushInc tried to get away with?

[blm]

100. The COUNTRY got stuck in Iraq - the pronoun dropped was "us" - get us stuck

I am quite certain many of us Dems have been defending Clinton for YEARS for dropping his pants, and you want Kerry scolded for dropping a PRONOUN?

[mtnsnake]

114. Maybe you should tell me 15 more times.

[blm]

122. You seem to never tire of siding with Bush on this. Why should I not fight back?

I fight everyone who sides with Bush on a lie he created to hurt this country.

[mtnsnake]

124. If I'm siding w/Bush then why am I so concerned about Kerry's botched joke

hurting us?

Nice spin, though.

[blm]

125. By ACCEPTING the lie and blaming the person who didn't do a damn thing to

deserve the vitriol directed at him because of a LIE. That's enabling the liars.

You either FIGHT the lie - or enable the liars by blaming the subject of their lie.

[mtnsnake]

127. Oh I see. Kerry deserves no blame. Thanks.

Damn, I should've already known that.

[blm]

128. If he CRAFTED the sentence that way, he would be to blame. That he missed

a two letter word while he was telling a joke he told a hundred times before is just not worthy of ANY blame.

If it wasn't this, it would have been another lie about Kerry. They HAD to create a demonizing event - they knew damn well Hacking Democracy was airing. Just as they invented the Clintons trashed the White House to cover for their stolen election in 2000, they created this lie that Kerry insulted the troops because of another expose of their illegitimate hold on the White House.

[MH1]

9. The joke wasn't about the military.

Thanks for playing.

[mtnsnake]

15. It was perceived that way by half the dimwits in this country, no matter if

he was insulting Bush or whomever.

"Education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

What a boneheaded thing to say and at such a critical time.

[electron_blue]

23. I think you still misunderstand the botched joke

He accidentally left out the word "us". As Kerry meant the joke, and as it was written in his speech, he said "...if you don't, you get *US* stuck in Iraq". It's an insult to Bush, not to any of the troops. It might sound like backpedalling if not for the fact that he's told that joke (correctly) many times before, and even prominent Republican politicians admit that.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200611010012

[mtnsnake]

29. No. It was simply a careless thing to do. He obviously didn't go over it &

say to himself while practicing in front of the mirror, "John, is there any way that the idiots of this country can make it look like I'm bashing the military?" Before he spouts out anything, he should be thinking about any implications of jokes that concern the war or the military. I know what he meant, but he was a fool for not being aware of all possible perceptions. It was a rookie mistake made by a veteran politician at a crucial time.

[electron_blue]

35. eh, mistakes happen. And it put Iraq back on page 1.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[mtnsnake]

54. Yup, agree to disagree

and thank you for not putting your words into my mouth like so many others love doing around here.

Peace

[blm]

145. He told the joke a hundred times before - campaigning every day for candidates

all over the country and he dropped a pronoun.


Let's videotape EVERY politician out campaigning and attack EVERY ONE who misspeaks or lord help us, drops a PRONOUN.

How about if Maher sends you a bottle Feign-Feign.

[mtnsnake]

148. He told that joke a hundred times before? Show me a link that backs that up.

It'll make me feel better about the entire mess.

[blm]

155. It was in a Hotline article someone posted here last week. The reporter there said he

KNEW it was a botched joke because they heard him say it many times before. The "hundred" part was just a guess, based on how long he's been out there campaigning over the past few months.

[mtnsnake]

162. I'll be happy if you can show me where Kerry used that joke even once before,

let alone "a hundred times". I'm saying only "once" just to take the pressure off of you a little. As I said in the post below, I have no problem with giving you all the time you need.

[blm]

166. FOUND it thru mi compadres. I was looking for Hotline, but it was the

Hotline blog at National Journal.

It was part of a larger article where they went thru all the crap that was going to happen - fully aware that it was going to be spun, and sometimes blaming Kerry as if he meant for it to happen, a bit schizophrenic for reporters who KNEW that it was a joke.

Point also being that reporters DID know and chose to run with the Bush storyline and created points to attack Kerry that had nothing to do with the truth. Just like the Gore invented the internet CREATION.


http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/10/bush_slams_kerr_1.html


>>>>
Do Republicans really believe that Kerry wasn't talking about Pres. Bush? (We believe that Kerry was referring to Bush because he's used a similar formulation in our presence before and quite clearly meant to call Bush a dummy.)
>>>>

[mtnsnake]

168. No offense to you & your compadres, but that passage doesn't equate at all with

proving that John Kerry ever used that joke before a hundred times, 10 times, or even one time. Not that they aren't out there, but it appears that there are no links to him doing so. Kerry himself never alluded to using that joke ever before, or I'm sure he would've pointed it out in his apology, as it would've cleared things up considerably. All he ever said was that he botched THAT joke that had been prepared for him for THAT particular speech.

Anyway, I'm willing to chalk this up to an honest mistake on your part about him using that same joke so many times before, when the reality is that he didn't.

Having said that, no one can question your loyalty (and that of your compadres) to Kerry.

[blm]

169. That's baloney - the reporter says right there that they heard that joke before -

I told I guessed about a hundred based on how many campaign appearances he has done in the past month.


Why on earth would you pretend the reporter didn't say what they CLEARLY SAID?

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/10/bush_slams_kerr_1.html


>>>>
Do Republicans really believe that Kerry wasn't talking about Pres. Bush? (We believe that Kerry was referring to Bush because he's used a similar formulation in our presence before and quite clearly meant to call Bush a dummy.)
>>>>

"He's USED A SIMILAR FORMULATION IN OUR PRESENCE BEFORE AND QUITE CLEARLY MEANT TO CALL BUSH A DUMMY."

What part of used it before is a foreign concept to you?

[mtnsnake]

170. "A similar formulation" is NOT close to what you were saying

Look, I was willing to let this go and chalk it up to an honest mistake on your part. You made a mistake, but it's now clearly obvious that you won't admit it NO MATTER WHAT.

If John Kerry ever used that joke before LIKE YOU SAID, then show me where and when he used that joke. As it relates to what you said over and over in this thread about him using that joke "a hundred times" or even once, that article is meaningless. Just because someone in some blog says he used something similar, it doesn't come close to equating with Kerry using that particular joke in any other speech other than the one he botched up in California. Even Kerry himself admitted to botching up that joke that he used in THAT speech. You ought to try the same.

[blm]

171. You are spinning as bad as Tony Snow right now - this is useless when someone is entrenched

and wants to now claim that I MADE A MISTAKE because the reporter said he'd heard the joke before.

What part of hearing the joke before in a similar formulation is a MYSTERY TO YOU? That's how most jokes are told, and I would bet my house that you have never told every joke you've made using the exact same wording each time.

Geez - Snow job must be influencing the Dem party, now, too. You should try boxing with that reach of yours.

[mtnsnake]

173. I'm not the one who used misinformation. You are, so enough w/Tony Snow stuff

the reporter said he'd heard the joke before

No he didn't. Where did he say that? From your own post, it looks more to me like the reporter said this:

We believe that Kerry was referring to Bush because he's used a similar formulation in our presence before and quite clearly meant to call Bush a dummy.

The bottom line is that you were wrong when you said that "he (Kerry) told the joke a hundred times before - campaigning every day for candidates". It's right there in post #145. What you said and what that guy from the Hotline blog said are not even close. For all I know, Kerry probably NEVER used that same joke even once in another speech, or someone would've come up with it by now. Post to the contrary all day long and into next year if it makes you feel better. Knock yourself out!

[mtnsnake]

156. Well, blm? How about answering my question. Cat got your tongue?

Link please?

Your answer above doesn't even come close to backing up your claim.

[blm]

157. I'm trying to find it, make GOTV phonecalls and clean my house - please

I think I've earned some slack here that you can give me some time and not be nasty about it. Do you really think I would just lie?

[mtnsnake]

158. I'll absolutely give you slack and more time to find it. No problem

I'm not being "nasty". I'm honestly wondering, only because Kerry himself didn't mention anything in his apology that coincides with what you're saying how he used that joke a hundred times before, let alone even a few times before.

[blm]

160. I read it here at DU from a Hotline article right when it happened.

.

[mtnsnake]

164. There's nothing in Kerry's apology or anything else that coincides with that

....that he used that joke before. That Hotline article shoudn't be too hard to find.

Please take all the time you need to find any link that shows Kerry used that joke a hundred times before....or even ONCE before, for that matter. I've got other things I need to do in the meantime, too, like get back to work in the real world, so if you find it sometime, you can post it later. Take care.

[ClassWarrior]

132. Why do you care so passionately about "half the dimwits" as you call them?

They'll never be convinced anyway.

NGU.

[mtnsnake]

143. I'm glad you asked. It's because I'm worried that some of them who

weren't going to vote might decide to do so now. That seems to be a universal concern among many mainstream Democrats. Hopefully, enough time has passed for those "dimwits" to even remember or care about it by tomorrow.

[ClassWarrior]

147. Ah, the "let's seal ourselves in a hermetic box" school of thought.

That's worked so well in the past. :eyes:

NGU.

[mtnsnake]

149. I should've known better

than to give you an honest answer.

[ProSense]

11. Here are some:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2925015&mesg_id=2925015

[kerrygoddess]

88. Thanks for sharing - but I was there when he said it

And everyone - and I mean everyone in the room got it. It was about Bush. Sorry you don't get it. And sorry anyone else doesn't get it. It's a shame, a damn shame that people in Democratic party STILL believe the Noise Machine Spin.

[nickinSTL]

137. clueless?

the joke wasn't ABOUT the military, it was about BUSH.

If you don't get that, either you're not paying attention, or ALL you're paying attention to is the MSM.

[understandinglife]

6. "Kerry played the GOP and they fell right into his hand." Exactly.

And, that is just what I noted on 31 Oct 2006:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/understandinglife/673

Recommended.

And, thank you again, Senator Kerry, for your never-ending service to the Republic.


Never Forget: George W. Bush willfully violated National Security to cover-up his willful launch of a war of aggression and illegal occupation of Iraq .... and, now he willfully provided nuke-making instructions to terrorists -- if you doubt it, just check 'the google' ...

[Kahuna]

13. Face it. Kerry gave them a GIFT. And he didn't have to do it...

If we lose this week, I only have one person in mind to blame. His name is John F. Kerry.

[Mass]

14. If we lose tuesday because of that, we will have had very weak candidates and a very weak leadership

No other thing to say.

But we are not going to lose. All polls predict we will win the house and the Senate is still the same thing: hard to do, but possible.

But you will blame Kerry whatever happens, so why bother...

[Kahuna]

18. So now you want to blame our candidates who were doing just fine

until Kerry opened his big mouth and gave the people who were going to stay home a reason to vote? That's rich. :eyes:

[Mass]

19. No, because I do not think it will change a thing. You are the one who wants to say we are going to

lose.

There has been very few changes since October, and most of them were already in the works, as the polls show.

[ProSense]

20. If we lose, I'll blame

a party that couldn't capitalize on Iraq, Haggard, Foley and this:



A party weak enough to get thrown off message by Michelle Malkin!

I certainly will not blame the one person who did, and did so consistently!

[sandnsea]

30. haha, it'll be because the Clintons were in charge

and didn't keep the focus on attacking this war. The Clintons have got their chance to run the whole thing for an entire week. If they can't win it with Bill in 29 states, when Bush is so far down in the polls, they sure as hell can't win anything in 2008.

[mtnsnake]

33. Yeah, let's blame the Clintons when nothing else works.

Blame anyone but Kerry. How convenient.

[sandnsea]

42. The Clintons are running the show

That's just a fact. They've switched focus from Iraq recently too, helping Bush switch to the economy which is exactly what he wants to do. Or blathering about 'complete the mission', whatever the hell that means. People want an exit strategy and the Clintons are too timid to stand up and demand one. Thank god the election is Tuesday because if it were any further away, we'd lose on their wussy strategy - AGAIN.

[NYCGirl]

68. Run for your lives, IT'S THE CLENIS!

:rofl:

[blm]

105. If you defended Clinton for dropped pants, you can't defend Kerry for a dropped PRONOUN?

Funny - I defended Clinton for YEARS for his carefully crafted sentence, what the meaning of the word is is.

Some people want to blame Kerry for a lie that was CREATED by BushInc because of a dropped PRONOUN.

[mtnsnake]

115. Let me know when you're ready to admit that Kerry isn't perfect

I wanna be there to see it.

The guy screwed up. I don't give a rat's ass if you weren't worried about any ramifications of his botched up joke. I sure was. Howard Dean et al have worked hard enough they didn't need a brain cramp hurting their chances. Defer the blame to the Clintons all you want. It doesn't change a thing.

[blm]

116. He isn't perfect - he tolerates way too much thrown crap for my liking.

You are the one who can't admit that YOU and BushInc and the RW media made a mountain of a dropped PRONOUN.

And according to Keith, Olbermann, Tom Friedman, Robert Parry, Bill Maher, and many others - that is FULL OF SHIT because it is a known LIE.

Bush created the lie because they feel people are STUPID ENOUGH To believe their lies.

This ginned up controversy did SPAWN some amazing backlash commentaries against BushInc, as it was the last straw for many of them sick of the lies.

Too bad you still have a bale of hay there you're not ready to give up.

[politicasista]

44. Sounds like you bought into the spin n/t

[blm]

104. That's absurd. They CREATED this lie just as they did about Gore and the internets.

Just like Clintons trashed the White HOuse.

I fought those lies. I fight every one of their lies.

[mtnsnake]

117. haha, I see that it's jealousy that motivates so much of this nonsense. Too bad

that John Kerry didn't invent the internet and discover the 10th planet of the solar system like Gore did. It's also such a shame that John Kerry doesn't stand a chance of ever trashing the WH like the Clintons did.

[blm]

119. No - it's as simple as not giving in to a lie. Fight the lies or FEAR THEM, as

you do when YOU accept them.

I never accept a lie from BushInc. no matter WHO the Democrat is. Guess you missed my threads calling for a counterattack on ABC the week BEFORE the PT9-11 aired. You can find them in the archives. As I recall, Pitt started one and I started the other.

See, even if I am angry with a Dem for serious reasons, I will still defend against damaging lies against them.

[truthisfreedom]

21. Kerry's gonna be fine. that joke will only serve as a reminder of how the gop

noise machine distorts the truth at every opportunity. it only makes the gop look worse.

[Infinite Hope]

22. Kerry didn't intentionally "play" the GOP...

his retreat from campaigning proves it. He never intended to have his point come across as it did. He'd have otherwise kept campaigning and forcing the Iraq issue. Further, he wouldn't have come up with excuses as to why it happened from a mistake, to a joke, to mispeaking from his script. Some people try to give him too much credit.

[ProSense]

26. He didn't have to come up

with an excuse. The prepared remarks were there! The context of the statement was clear, even as delivered.

The OP is correct! Senator gets the credit for disrupting their plan, and the feeding frenzy by those who saw it as an opportunity to take a swipe. This will reflect badly on them!

[Infinite Hope]

36. But...

he didn't intentionally botch his joke or intend this to make Iraq the issue before the election. He was giving a speech about education and was making a sort-of-joke about Iraq in doing so.

[ProSense]

43. No one claims that!

The OP is talking about the actions Kerry took after the RW launched its attack! He did the right thing! They tried to take the focus off Iraq and put it on Kerry in the hopes of gaining momentum, but their attack backfired.

[Inuca]

37. Not sure what you mean

"he wouldn't have come up with excuses as to why it happened from a mistake, to a joke, to mispeaking from his script" - these all refer to the same thing, no? A mistake in telling a joke so it came out different than how it was written, i.e., the "script". I do not see the many different excuses that you seem to imply, just a single simple explanation. An awkward moment, no doubt. But nothing more than that.

[kerrygoddess]

89. Well you don't know that do you.

The retreat was meant to keep the focus off him. Rather brilliant - the man goes out travels around the country raising the issue of Iraq everywhere he goes and then he pulls a blooper - gets everyone talking about Iraq even more and even sits back and let's BushCo and the GOP fall apart and look like fools.

[beachmom]

93. There was only ever one explanation -- a botched Bush joke

That's it. It's not complicated. In fact, it's quite simple. Your remarks that he gave multiple explanations is, quite frankly, a lie.

[motocicleta]

48. deleted. too angry to let my post live

[Doctor_J]

53. A 23-point lead in the polls is now 7

can you attribute that to anything besides the attention paid to Kerry?

[Mass]

58. Same poll? Really?

It seems fairly improbable, but show me the proof.

BTW, the two polls that were taken while the media were full of Kerry show no evolution. The two that were taken after the story was closed where the ones that show a smaller gap, probably because the media were showing Bush campaigning 100 % of the time with something more credible than calling Kerry anti-troops. (I do not know: calling Democrats proterror without being contradicted?).

I checked:

The poll with a difference of 23 points was an USA Gallup poll from June, that was reduced to 13 in September. Please, do not think people are idiots.

http://www.pollingreport.com/2006.htm

[Mass]

62. Also, latest TIME poll Dems 55 Rep 40.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2586417

So, either something happened Friday, and it was not Kerry because he has been out of sight since Wednesday, or those are simply different polls with different methodologies.

And latest USA Today is 7:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-11-05-national-poll_x.htm

What seems clear, from all these different results, is that the GOTV operation of the GOP, which started Friday is working, once again. This is the only rational operation between polls ending Thursday and polls ending this week-end.

[MH1]

188. Not true.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/06/demos.poll/index.html

Poll: Democrats boost advantage in races for Congress
POSTED: 8:47 a.m. EST, November 6, 2006
Adjust font size:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The percentage of likely voters who plan to vote for Democrats in Tuesday's congressional elections increased in the past week, according to a CNN poll conducted during the weekend.

Those voters supporting Democrats also seem less likely to change their minds before casting ballots, the poll found

Democrats hold a 20 percentage-point advantage -- 58 percent to 38 percent -- over Republicans among likely voters in the survey released Monday morning. The Democratic advantage was 11 percentage points -- 53 percent to 42 percent -- in a poll a week ago.

[AtomicKitten]

55. I just organized a group of friends and executed

several hours of phone bank work for Harold Ford, and if you think for one minute the Kerry "thing" didn't affect the election, then you need to take a break from your Kerry cheerleading, get your ass off the internet, and check into some of these campaigns that hang in the balance and find out for yourselves.

It is delusional to suggest what he did was a plus. Worse, it is insulting to the rest of us here. What this incident has proved unequivocally is the lengths to which some of you will go to use pretzel logic to deify a fading politician, putting his interests ahead of this election, our country, and the rest of us.

Shame on you.

[ProSense]

59. It's delusional to say he did anything!

It was a manufactured RW smear! The smear doesn't make it a fact.

Shame on you!

[Mass]

69. Anyway, polls for Ford were lousy before this happens and they are still lousy.

So, our friend can say what she wants and she certainly had answers from racists who used that as an excuse, but all polls show it is the Corker ad who hurt Ford, but of course, it is easier to put that on Kerry.

[AtomicKitten]

73. yeah, I'll be sure to pass that on

to those people in states where GOP attack ads with Kerry's flub are being used to slam Democrats.

I'm sure they will be sympathetic to John Kerry's plight in this mess and worship him just like you.

[Mass]

74. I could not care less what you think. So move on.

If you cannot read a poll, this is not my fault.

[AtomicKitten]

75. no shit you don't care - about anything EXCEPT Kerry

THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT !!!!!!

[Mass]

76. What you think would be more credible if you had not harassed Kerry's supporters for months.

This is the whole point.

There is no difference between your posts this week and in the previous months.

So, sorry, I will trust people I know really.

And in fact, you are wrong. I care about a lot of things, but you do not care about anything except bashing Kerry.

If you do not like what I say, there is an ignore function. There is also a hide function for the Kerry threads.

[AtomicKitten]

77. "I do declare, this talk is giving me the vapors."

Mass: "Like my good friend Miss Barbara Bush once said, 'I don't care what you think. These people are much better off with Mr. Kerry's faux pas and resultant attack ads. It is working out very nicely for them.' "

[fujiyama]

81. Yes it was manufactered

and so was the swift boat campaign.

But guess what? It was effective, just like this distraction has been effective. Kerry fuckin blew it. Now, did I think he was bashing the troops in his joke? Of course not. In fact, it even took me a little while to figure out what the fuss was about, because I knew from the context of the rest of his comments, that he was slamming Bush. Kerry served in the military. Those folks were his friends. He saw some shot. He even saved some the life of one. He's served years in the senate working for veterans.

But I'm really pissed at him for not thinking a little longer about the stupid attempt at a joke. Kerry would have made an amazing president, but this makes me really question his political skills. This was an incredibly inept thing to do. He should have known how the RW media machine would react to this as well. He just hasn't seemed to learn from his mistakes in the last campaign. And of course, the first thing Bush and the other ass holes would do is say "this is more proof the Dems don't care about troops". In states with large braindead populations like TN, these attacks are actually effective. And in a year when there are some very close races, this is the kind of thing that can swing a small but crucial number.

Kerry got played this time. And denying that is spin. This was a major fuck up.

[ProSense]

84. Bullshit!

Now, did I think he was bashing the troops in his joke? Of course not. In fact, it even took me a little while to figure out what the fuss was about...

Well, with that your post makes no sense! Manufactured is manufactured! The major fuck up was the allowing the assholes room to breathe after Kerry came out with a strong statement exposing them! Had the Democrat left it at that and not piled on with calls for an apology, the RW would have been out there blowing smoke up wingnuts' asses!

Santorum tried his best to capitalize on this, but Casey stood firm and widen and it had no impact!

Bullshit!

[fujiyama]

87. Santorum was desperate to capitalize on anything

He's virtually done anyways. My own senator Stanenaw also didn't diss Kerry, but she also has a pretty comfortable lead.

Only those like Hillary with future ambitions and those stuck in close races like Ford asked for an apology.

[beachmom]

94. Huh? I phonebanked in Virginia (#1 state for veterans) and didn't

hear a peep, one way or the other. It's quite frankly, irrelevant to the campaign. And let's be honest here -- Ford's number collapsed BEFORE the Kerry gaffe, due to that awful racist ad the GOP ran.

[blm]

107. When did he put his interests ahead of the election? He'd been campaigning for candidates

for over a year. He was tired and dropped a PRONOUN, and you all want to claim it was something it wasn't.

Did you get every videotape of every politician stumping for candidates and make sure no one elese dropped a pronoun?

BushInc LIED to create a controversy - just as they CREATED a lie that Gore said he invented the internet because of awkward wording by Gore.

They created a LIE that Clintons trashed the White House and that stuck for many months.

And THIS lie created out of a dropped pronoun is what you want Kerry strung up for?

[Seabiscuit]

56. The only way Kerry could have "played" the GOP was by intentionally

botching his joke just before he paid Mike Jones to spill the beans on Pastor Ted Haggard.

[blm]

130. heheh...I agree - I think he didn't start playing till they attacked him

and he was able to get 15 minutes on camera calling them liars trying to distract from their failed strategy in Iraq, noting he was being attacked by those who never served who seem to enjoy attacking those who did.

[AZBlue]

64. Wow! It must be a pretty world you live in, with marshmellow clouds & licorice roads

eom

[AtomicKitten]

65. tangerine dreams and marmalade skies

eom

[AtomicKitten]

66. HQ

[AZBlue]

98. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

He didn't mean to imply that the troops are stupid."

[ProSense]

99. "Pay no attention to that man...He didn't mean to imply that the troops are stupid"

But that's what you seem hell bent on promoting, which puts you in league with the RW.

[AZBlue]

190. Sorry my comments went over your head.

I'll dumb them down for you from now on.

[AtomicKitten]

198. type s-l-o-w-e-r

Fasten your seat belt because the spin here will knock you right out of your chair and be careful of the hairpin turns off-topic.

[ProSense]

70. Fantasy is believing that this furor over Kerry

is about Kerry instead of the RW. Some misstatements offer a lot more fuel to the RW:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/19/MNGM8GPDV41.DTL

http://www.blackcommentator.com/168/168_freedom_rider_clinton_plantation.html

[Mass]

72. Not even the RW, the media,

[kerrygoddess]

91. No actually

My world is all lavendar scented and it keeps me stress free when people can't respectfully disagree. :)

[geek tragedy]

67. Wishful thinking. Kerry is the best thing that

happened to the Republicans in the past two months.

He is FINISHED as a contender for the 2008 nomination.

[wisteria]

97. They chose him because he is the one strong voice speaking out

against this administration. You silence him, you silence your voice too. When you speak out, you risk that your words can be misused. However, in this case his words weren't misused, they were manipulated and their definition changed.
This low, low dirty administration doesn't have any ethics and chose a low blow.

Frankly, even Shumer realizes at this point that Kerry will have no impact on these elections. The elections aren't about Kerry, he isn't running, they are about the war. I think you just don't like him and are being irrational. Races are won or lost for many reasons- not just because kerry left "us" out of a sentence- get real and stop believing the hype- its bullshit.

As for 2008, I wouldn't COUNT HIM OUT- HE WILL NOT LET THIS DETER HIM FROM CONTINUING TO MAKE OUR COUNTRY RIGHT. IT WON'T DETER US- HE SUPPORTERS EITHER.

[Mass]

71. What really matters, that is when our friends will stop ...

thinking Kerry is responsible for everything going wrong in the world:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2586024&mesg_id=2586024

And it goes a lot further than a question of Kerry. But, because some people here are too busy pushing their own guys, they do that at the risk of ignoring some pretty major issues.

[LaCrosseDem]

79. Ummm no.

Kerry just kept the house and senate in Repub hands.

[fujiyama]

82. I don't know about the House - but it likely narrowed the lead...

but he may have killed Ford's chances, and possibly a few others as well in the senate. I sure hope not though.

[LaCrosseDem]

83. I worked and contributed my ass off for rat-bastard Kerry in '04

I am so pissed that this idiot has to open his maw again and fuck everything up.

[wisteria]

96. I see you don't come around very much, just to bash Kerry I assume.

You want him to keep quite then you are silencing one of the best voices the net roots has. Who do you think would replace him/ I have not seen anyone really step up to bat. And I am not referring to one issue, I am referring to really speaking for the net roots.

[politicasista]

85. The racist ad and his family may have done him in

I refuse to play along with the media and buy into the spin that this is Kerry's fault. Flame me if you want, but I will not.

[fujiyama]

86. Probably right

that the racist ad had more to do with it. But more than actually Kerry's botched joke has been the constant media coverage and questioning of "will this hurt the dEms". Ask the question enough times and it will eventually start to hurt.

[wisteria]

109. Ford has been down for a couple of polls even before they

decided to exploit Kerry. No way this has a thing to do wit Kerry. Even Schumer said today on MTP, that this exploitation of Kerry has had no effect on the elections- so why spread untruths?

[AtomicKitten]

195. Ford is fighting for his life.

And your boy just made it tougher for him. He is not out by any stretch of the imagination, but we do take note of you willing to call it over to cover the inept tracks of your favorite candidate.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2006/10/02/in_tennessee_ford_surges_ahead.html

[SouthernBelle82]

80. So true!

This is great and a great way to look at it. Perhaps that is what John Kerry was trying to do whether he knew it or not. He did make Iraq the issue again.

[kerrygoddess]

90. Ding Ding Ding!

Thanks for seeing what some here don't. :)

[wisteria]

92. Kerry's intent was to go after Bush, his comments were not about the troops

He had a right to defend himself from false accusations and not just roll over and except the verdict after trumped up charges of bashing the troops. I am appalled at the lack of support some here have shown him. NO ONE ELSE HAD LISTENED TO AND SUPPORTED US MORE AND FOR THIS, HE HAS TAKEN MUCH HEAT AND RIDICULE. HE DOES WHAT IS RIGHT, AND THEY KICK HIM ON THE DEM SIDE AND THEY KICK HIM ON THE REPUB SIDE. THEN HE GETS BASHED HERE.

I WANT TO KNOW FROM ALL THOSE THAT ARE BLAMING HIM FOR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING,HAT THEIR CANDIDATES HAVE DONE FOR US LATELY? HAVE THEY FOUGHT LEGISLATION ON OUR BEHALF, HAVE THEY BEEN CHALLENGING PRESIDENT BUSH AND CALLING FOR CHANGE NOW IN IRAQ? HAVE THEY SUPPORTED THE TROOPS JUST ABOUT 100% OF THE TIME? HAVE THEY FREQUENTLY KEEP IN TOUCH WITH US AND OUR OPINIONS BY BLOGGING ON KOS AND HUFFINGTON? HAVE THEY SUPPORTED THE CANDIDATES RUNNING IN THIS ELECTION TO THE TUNE OF 12MILLION DOLLARS. HAVE THEY MADE MORE VISITS, AND PARTICIPATED IN MORE RALLIES?
I WANT TO KNOW! BECAUSE, I SURE HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH ACTIVITY FORM MOST OF THE OTHER GUYS.

[savemefromdumbya]

106. MSM were ordered to report it as Kerry criticizing troops

[wisteria]

110. Exactly. They are exploiting a small gaff anyone could have made. m/t

[FernBell]

102. much ado about nothing

[Tellurian]

108. A Little Perspective is Good for the Soul..

Not Everyone Feeling so generous towards Kerry:


"But not everyone was feeling so generous. On the ground in New Hampshire, some activists who’d been open to him pre-blunder, were now shutting their doors and turning out the lights. “It’s not that this gaffe was so bad,” says Ann McLane Kuster, a prominent New Hampshire activist, “But it plays into all the traits he has that are out of touch, like using intelligence as a way to distinguish himself rather than compassion. The underlying joke wasn’t funny.”


"Not surprisingly, the judgments were a little less diplomatic inside the Beltway. “There is not a Democrat in Washington who thinks John Kerry is a viable presidential candidate after last week,” says a longtime Democratic strategist (who isn’t working for one of Kerry’s potential rivals). The strategist, who spoke freely and at length about Kerry on the condition of anonymity, says the gaffe reminds Democrats that he is politically inept. “This is not something that will linger in pool halls and bars and normal places in America,” he says, “but among the donors and activists who like to win, this memory will last a long time. Remember, his entire candidacy is based on electability. And when that’s the basis of your candidacy, and you’ve already lost once, amateur hour doesn’t begin to describe John Kerry. And that’s without even getting into the personal animus towards the guy.”

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15562022/site/newsweek/page/3/

[loyalsister]

207. Exactly

Some responses only reinforce our reputation as elitist.
"Everyone knows what he meant" totally disregards the possibility of a perfectly reasonable alternate interpretation. There are a lot of people who may hear it that way who may be inclined to vote our way.
The hearer is entitled to hear and base their interpretation on their past experience.
Sometimes they are RWers. Sometimes less educated with less of a tendency toward nuance. Sometimes they will be people who are poorer because they are less educated.
Defensiveness without recognizing or caring where their response is coming from is not productive.
Respect and support cuts both ways. If we disrespect their right to hear and interpret, we don't deserve their support.
Dean's strategy has been that we can gain support from more disaffected citizens if we would stop pretending that their POV does not matter because "they wouldn't vote for a democrat anyway."
Pretending it is irrelevent that they might hear something different from what Kerry intended is a symptom of what has been wrong the the Democratic party for a very long time.
It is like making them invisible.

[rodeodance]

111. I feel so bad for kerry. He botches a joke and both Dems and Repugs

diss him! Shameful.

[bling bling]

112. Me too.

He's a good person and a good American. For that and for his service to the country, he deserves more respect than this, I think. I think it's a shame that this is what he gets in return from the country he has served for so long.

I have to agree with some of the others here and blame the RW for this. They, once again, have proven that there are no boundaries they won't cross to get their grubby little paws on a vote. They are repulsive, slimy, and the perfect opposite of what we OUGHT to expect from leaders of the United States of America.

Bush, Rove, and the usual suspects in the GOP live up to their reputation as a bunch of low-life thugs by spinning what Kerry said the way they did. They have such a powerful machine attacking on so many fronts and with our media that jerks off to anything the GOP says there was almost no way to get out of it gracefully. They are truly masters of deception, manipulation, and dirty politics. They have no shame.

[talk hard]

113. he messed up but youre trying to say it was good

spin-spin-spin-spin-spin
bull-shit

[mtnsnake]

126. You nailed it.

[ProSense]

134. The RW created a distortion out of thin air

and some people are still sucking it in!

Acknowledge that the RW lied. The distortion is the bullshit!

[Marie26]

131. Brilliant strategery.

I especially liked how he paused in the middle, said "uh", and appeared to be desperately looking to find his spot in the written speech before skipping to the end of the joke. It gave it that look of an authentically "botched joke".

[NYCGirl]

133. It was Kerry's "Dean Scream", and it's finished off his national ambitions

for the foreseeable future.

[ProSense]

135. It's not even Kerry's "inventing the Internet"

He's a fighter!

[NYCGirl]

136. We'll see.

He's toast!

[ProSense]

144. We'll see!

The amount of spin to prove this failed RW smear is the biggest factor in the election is nothing but hysteria. The smear was to distract from Iraq. Rove had other plans for swaying the election.

Rove’s Dirty Little Surprise

The National Republican Campaign Committee may be coming to a phone near you. I'm getting multiple reports from all over the country — in districts where the races are close, and even some where the Democratic candidate has moved ahead pretty substantially — of a robocall blitz.

These recorded calls are designed to do repeated call-backs and they have been masquerading as coming from Democratic candidates. Except they are not. They are coming from the National Republican Campaign Committee.

[NYCGirl]

146. It's not about the smear, it's about his reaction to it. The RW was successful

in creating the furor, and it'll sink Kerry nationally.

What does Jane Hamsher's article have to do with Kerry?

Edited to add: It'll sink Kerry nationally because he didn't get out in front of it and simply and succinctly defuse it. Sure, we at DU all loved the statement calling Snow a "stuffed suit" etc. (which, BTW, sounded word for word like it was written by David Wade), but it did little more than to confuse much of the electorate who doesn't hang out here or watch news or political TV shows nonstop.

[ProSense]

151. It is about the smear!

You seem to be suggesting that because the RW created the furor, it achieved its objective. Bush and McCain were exposed as sleazy. Kerry stood up against the smear and many people who were not opportunists rallied to his defense! As the following poll shows, only the opportunists and Republican supporters give a shit:




People who didn't buy into it:

78% of all voters
62% of Republicans
93% of Democrats (and 8%-11% of Democrats voted for Bush in the past two elections)
79% of Independents

[NYCGirl]

152. Yes, the RW smeared Kerry. But it's his reaction to it that'll sink him.

You can yell and stamp your feet all you want, but that's not going to change things.

[ProSense]

154. His reaction to it obviously

made it a non-issue with a significant majority of the public, either that or the RW smear really was ineffective. Which is it?

[NYCGirl]

159. You've been trying to steer the conversation away from my original point —

that Kerry is finished as a national contender. Whether the significant majority of the public believes "the botched joke" to be a non-issue or not, the two days of media attention for that non-issue will serve to make him radioactive as a Democratic candidate. Even if the smear is totally ineffective, the fracas has served to highlight Kerry's former inadequacies as a candidate, and that's too bad.

He screwed up. He screwed up big time, and instead of saying, "Oops, I mangled the punch line of that joke. I've told it dozens of times — here's what it was SUPPOSED to say...If anyone was offended by it, please accept my apologies, I meant no offense." Instead, he puffs himself up and says, (I'm paraphrasing here) "How dare they question my commitment to the troops; me, of all people! Tony Snow...Rush Limbaugh...etc." which prolonged the stupid story.

[ProSense]

161. If 20 months

didn't knock out Gore, this failed smear will have no affect on Kerry!

“During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet,” Gore said. “I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country’s economic growth, environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.” On the whole, this was the kind of chest-thumping statement which candidates routinely make on the stump. But as anyone who followed this election will know, Gore’s initial, sixteen-word comment was widely dissected for the next twenty months. Almost surely, Gore’s brief remark about the Net was the most widely-discussed statement of Campaign 2000. The spinning of this one remark drove a nasty War Against Gore—a spin campaign which almost surely decided the 2000 race.

Gore’s remark would be widely attacked. But surprise! At the time Gore made his statement, it received no attention whatever. Blitzer didn’t ask Gore to explain his remark; he showed no surprise at what Gore had said. And in its on-air promotions for the taped interview, CNN showed no sign of thinking that Gore had “made news” with his comment. Meanwhile, major papers which covered Gore’s interview completely ignored the comment. On March 10, for example, the Washington Post ran a full report about the Gore-Blitzer session. But the paper only discussed Gore’s remarks on U.S. relations with China. On March 11, the Washington Times’ Greg Pierce reviewed the interview in his “Inside Politics” column. But Pierce only mentioned what Gore had said about early campaign polling. Similarly, the AP’s dispatches about Gore’s interview completely ignored his Internet comment. And another major organ passed over Gore’s statement. On March 10, the Hotline—the widely-read, on-line digest of the day’s political news—ran extensive excerpts from the Late Edition Q-and-A’s, but omitted the Internet remark altogether. In fact, in the first two days after Gore’s appearance, no press entity remarked, in any way, on what Gore said about the Net. Gore’s comment would be critiqued, attacked, burlesqued and spun over the course of the next twenty months. But it evoked no reaction from the press—none at all—at the time Gore made it. Repeat: No one in the press said even one word about Gore’s statement at the time it was made. No one showed the slightest sign of thinking Gore’s comment was notable.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh120302.shtml

[NYCGirl]

163. Is this about Gore? I thought we were talking about Kerry.

Check with me in 20 months. IMO, Kerry is finished as a national candidate for 2008. So to answer the original post, no, Kerry didn't play the GOP.

[AtomicKitten]

179. bait and switch

shuck and jive
pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
war is peace
feh

[confludemocrat]

167. Yes, the Kerry handling of this was the take-home message

Never straightforward and unfailingly lame and filled with indecision then a brief stand, followed by retreat. Hopefully he permanently gone from the national stage.

[Tellurian]

174. The Kerryites are starting to believe their OWN spin...

and choose living in a vacuum as opposed to dealing with the problem head on, working to resolve the problem decisively and effectively; I can understand why Kerry was ill advised by the people closest to him.

His advisers are relegating his 'faux pas' to a 'dropped pronoun'; (which in of itself misleads and distracts from the ramifications thereof) drawing a tangential comparison as the parallel to somehow in the brain freeze, cancel out the issue as a non-issue.

The Kerry activist in New Hampshire someone blessed with knowledge acquisition, said it best--

"they understood the mistake “It’s not that this gaffe was so bad,” says Ann McLane Kuster, a prominent New Hampshire activist, “But it plays into all the traits he has that are out of touch, *like using intelligence as a way to distinguish himself rather than compassion.*

..ending with..

"The underlying joke wasn’t funny.”

This is the point the DU Kerryites fail to grasp.

Oh well, we can only hope they will wake-up....someday!

edited for the graphic addition...muey importante!

[AtomicKitten]

178. they would have been better served

to just STFU and hope it blows over - as we all did - but, no, they are all puffed up trying to sell us the notion that this ill-timed BS is somehow brilliant strategy. I reject that and so should every thinking person that isn't bamboozled by the biggest snow job I've seen to date here at DU.

"The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it."
*** Joseph Goebbels

[ProSense]

183. "to just STFU and hope it blows over "

Why, because you can't deal with the fact that a RW smear didn't work?

Take your own advice!

[AtomicKitten]

189. quit trying to sell it as brilliant political strategy

The best part of all this is you not knowing that his aspirations for 2008 are finished.

[ProSense]

196. For me, there was no best part!

Watching people desperately trying to justify the RW's BS smear, and now its obvious irrelevance, is sad!

[Tellurian]

201. STFU ? the Star Trek Federation University, people..?

hahahaha!


:rofl:

[flpoljunkie]

139. Pew: 18% of independent voters say Kerry's joke raises serious doubt about voting Dem

What is it with independent voters that they can swing like this? Of course, without the media hammering on Kerry's "botched joke," this would not be happening--if, indeed, it is.



In addition, Sen. John Kerry's "botched joke" about the war in Iraq attracted enormous attention. Fully 84% of voters say they have heard a lot or a little about Kerry's remarks with 60% saying they have heard a lot. By comparison, just 26% say they have heard a lot about President Bush's statement that he will keep Donald Rumsfeld as secretary of defense until he leaves office in 2009. Most voters say Kerry's statement is not a serious consideration in their vote, but 18% of independent voters say it did raise serious doubts about voting for a Democratic candidate.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=295

[Cameron27]

delete

dupe

[Cameron27]

140. Shit

We can't lost ANY votes. Thanks for the joke Sen. Kerry. SHIT.

[AtomicKitten]

177. I think that's more accurately HOLY SHIT.

The indie vote was at one point shifting 2:3 toward Dems, and I am so disheartened to read this data. At the same time I am absolutely disgusted that the Kerry cheerleading squad just shakes it off like this data on the indie vote is no big deal. This episode has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that these people are poor citizens that care more for the viability of ONE politician (and, yes, he has gaffed his way into obscurity) than for the wellbeing of America. It wasn't enough that just about everyone here with very few exceptions was pretty cool about the gaffe; no, they are now trying to sell it as a brilliant move and are indignant that we aren't buying it. Effin hell.

[ProSense]

186. OMG!

I hope the other 79% who don't give a shit vote for the Democrats! It would be the biggest landslide in history!

[AtomicKitten]

191. You, apologist, are now responsible for the 18% of indies Kerry turned off.

That fact that you don't understand the magnitude of that speaks volumes, but isn't something we all didn't already suspect.

[ProSense]

194. Do you really believe that 100% of Independents planned to

vote for Democrats or even supported Democrats before this failed smear?

[ProSense]

142. 79% say it doesn't! How does that matter since

at least 23% of Independents plan to vote for Republicans:

CBS News/New York Times Poll. Oct. 27-31, 2006. N=598 likely voters nationwide. MoE ± 4 (for all likely voters).

"If the 2006 election for U.S. House of Representatives were being held today, would you vote for the Republican candidate or the Democratic candidate in your district?"

ALL likely voters
34% Republican
52% Democrat

Republicans
84% Republicans
6% Democrats

Democrats
3% Republicans
90% Democrats

Independents
23% Republicans
50% Democrats

http://www.pollingreport.com/2006a.htm


This is also an indication that some Independents who plan to vote Republican, don't give a shit!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

150. I'D SAY YOU NEED A FEW MORE VOTES MS. GODDESS!

[RestoreGore]

153. Good backtracking n/t

[PeaceProgProsp]

184. Believing this is a sign of a real lack of objectivity

[Imagevision]

187. They will use kerry Botched joke-flap as the reason the change in repugs

not losing the house or senate...
(while computer fraud runs rampant in background)

[DemBones DemBones]

206. This is like the 2004 claims that Kerry was "playing chess" and

would make his move soon, outsmarting Rove.

[KoKo]

208. It's the second apology Kerry has had to give over Bush Statements....

I just can't go for a Dem Candidate who apologizes for calling out Bush for what he is.

Sorry...but this is the second apology. It came at a bad time. It caused Kerry to have to drop out of appearances he could have given in support of Dem candidates who needed it.

He either has terrible timing or bad "foot in mouth disease." I just don't understand how he can be seen as a victim twice...and I'm not even mentioning the "Swift Boating" he didn't stand up two because I don't fault him for that. But Two Apologies are his fault. :shrug: Sorry...

[KoKo]

209. Cindy Sheehan and John Murtha "opened up the flood gates" on Iraq...

Sorry...but that's the truth of it.

[Name removed]

210. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

211. You had to kick up an old thread just to say THAT?!

Pffffft.

[enough already]

212. Do you think I give a rat's ass about Kerry today?

It's always about Kerry. Biggest election ever today, and it's STILL all about Kerry. Give it the fuck up already. It's over for him.

[LittleClarkie]

213. It's a two day old thread, and she's not the one who kicked it back up

Someone who's message was deleted for flamebaiting kicked it back up to taunt her.