Boy oh boy, that botched Kerry joke hurt us like hell, didn't it?

[elperromagico]

I love it when pundits are so wrong.

[The Count]

1. Tweety actually asked Mccaskill that. Winner mccaskill!

:crazy:

[pacalo]

2. There's no doubt in my mind that Kerry won the presidency.

Whoever is pulling the strings (CorporateWorld) decided Bush needed a swift kick in the pants & he got it tonight. They let the people speak this election.

[still_one]

3. It was very close to hurting us, and that is the truth

two thing saved us, Kerry removed himself from the spotlight

and haggard appeared on the scene

[elperromagico]

5. It's been about as close to a perfect shitstorm for the GOP this year

as humanly possible. The Kerry gaffe was their only ray of light and, as soon as Kerry apologized, he cut the legs off that story.

[still_one]

7. That was my point. Kerry took himself out of the picture by appologizing

[politicasista]

33. He hasn't even talked about 08

Let the voters decide that.

[churchofreality]

54. Lets hope it stays that way

He doesnt have political skills. He can get elected here in massachusetts where its like 90% democrats, but nationallym he is a clown.

[Mass]

65. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but this is all it is: your opinion.

and let's rejoice about our new governor. I am sure we can agree he is a great man, and he defeated soundly a real clown: Kerry Healey.

[wisteria]

53. He was going to take himself out of the picture even if he

hadn't apologized.

[Canuckistanian]

9. Right on both counts

The timing was impeccable. What Kerry did was a bit timid in my view, but proper.

And Haggard was the icing on the cake.

[WildEyedLiberal]

18. He had to step back because he was stabbed in the back

After his own party shivved him in the back and refused to stand up for a fellow DEM being smeared.

His choices were: a) continue to fight and prolong the screeching media shitstorm, all while the entire Democratic party sides with the GOP, or; b) remove himself from the picture.

He chose b because he KNEW that without the party backing him up they would continue to beat a dead horse and then accuse him of hurting Dems chances. With "friends" like those, who needs enemies?

[still_one]

20. what is the point, Kerry wasn't up for re-election

[karynnj]

48. The reason for fighting the RW interpretation - which Kerry did

well in the first response within hours of the RW fake outrage - was that Kerry IS a Democratic leader and the reason the RW did it was to tarnish all Democrats.

Iraq was the issue. The Republicans on hate radio have had a litany of "Democrats are against the troops" for over a year - and it included everyone from Kennedy to Durbin to Kerry. Kerry has been a strong voice speaking out on the war. If not for this, they would have used some comment that the war wasn't winnable militarilly. (It would have been less embarassing to Kerry though) They had nothing else to do.

[LittleClarkie]

12. I dunno. I found it kinda motivational myself

Even an independant friend of mine felt sorry for Kerry. I don't think it was going to hurt us really.

The country is turning out to be smarter than we thought.

[Hieronymus]

15. I agree ..

keep Kerry locked up.

[politicasista]

17. Yes, keep the most outspoken dem locked up n/t

[still_one]

22. have you seen how close the election is?

[wisteria]

55. Yeah, he could of been out there driving home the mess in Iraq. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

21. But not his money, eh?

Oh, we'll keep that alright. Even Ford, who took the side of the Republicans, wasn't going to cough up any of Kerry's pac money.

He was a great help. Part of this victory tonight belongs to him too.

[wisteria]

56. Absolutely. n/t

[Sensitivity]

28. Dem were cowardly -- too scared to face-off Bush as they well could.

[wisteria]

57. yeah, Kerry took them on and took a risk- that is true leadership. n/t

[wisteria]

52. No, it wasn't ever going to hurt us. The Dem's overreacted when

it wasn't necessary. And, And, Kerry turned it around right away on Bush and said that he should apologize.
Remember, stuck in Iraq and Bush should apologize. Those were the phrases I heard over and over again from average citizens.
Kerry is smart enough to know what they were trying to do and if they were going to try it he was going to turn it around on them, which he did.
He also worked harder than any other pol to get Dem's elected.

Nonsense, Rove made a major error in going after Kerry. It made them seem desperate and brought up Iraq again.

[TheDonkey]

4. oh yea, Kerry just lost the Democrats chances in 06, 08, 10, 12, even 14 with that joke

or at least that's what Faux News would like you to think

[still_one]

6. Kerry destroyed his chances for 2008 for sure

[politicasista]

8. Let's just give the man credit for his work in 06

then worry about 08 later.

[still_one]

10. no argument from me on that

as for the other thing I brought up, that is just my opinion which won't even buy you a cup of coffee

[WildEyedLiberal]

16. Oh good GOD why?

It's a complete and total non-issue... Jesus... a pathetic last ditch Republican smear job to try to retain their seats. It didn't work. So why in the hell does it matter for anything?

Spare me.

[still_one]

25. you want to know why, because he opens his mouth before he thinks

I don't want to relive the 2004 campaign, but there was enough mis-statements made

[politicasista]

32. Name one candidate that is free of mispeak

You think the media will go easy on any Dem that mispeakes? If so, then you are in for a rude awakening.

[WildEyedLiberal]

34. Oh please. Do you know who our current president is?

Bush has contributed to 5 different daily calendars full of his "mis-statements" - obviously, "misspeaking" doesn't affect one's ability to be elected or not.

You know what, when you find your Perfect Candidate who will Never make Any errors Whatsoever and who will run a Perfect Campaign, you let me know, okay?

[karynnj]

49. He actually had relatively few mistatements in 2004

He also was very very good on talk shows in 2005 and 2006 explaining the need for change in Iraq. I don't know who you thought better in 2004, but this is clearly overstated.

[wisteria]

61. I couldn't put it better myself. n/t

[wisteria]

60. NOPE!

I wouldn't count him out. You are buying into the DLC, media spin. Kerry is too focused and he still has support.

[Sensitivity]

66. jThat is his prob. He certainly did not hurt the Party. Some Dem just acted

cowardly.

[TayTay]

67. Really? Tell NH voters that.

Tell the people in this first primary state that the man who worked harder than any other '08 potential to turn over those 2 R seats to the D's that Kerry doesn't matter. Oh and the NH House and Senate.

There are major chits to be picked up in Iowa and NH. That is undeniable.

[txindy]

68. Okay.

:eyes:

[wisteria]

58. ROFL N/T

[twilight_sailing]

11. Jesus,

they made such a big deal out of it. It went on for days.

The Republicans just didn't have anything good to talk about so they bored the living shit out of the whole country for 3 damn days talking about Kerry.

Ha ha

[LittleClarkie]

13. Remember how Hannity was grinning like a moose

because he thought that Kerry had just handed them the election? And the pundits around here just went on and on about it for days.

Ha indeed.

[MGD]

30. I think it just pissed off Americans. It was insulting their intelliegnce

Bush is a three trick pony- fears, smears, and queers and Americans have figured it out and are sick of it me thinks.

[Sensitivity]

14. Kerry truly served the Party selflessly. It was shameful what some did

to him.

He gained added respect from me.

[Trajan]

19. This is a Non Causa Pro Causa Fallacy ....

Can you guarantee that the joke didnt cost MORE votes ? ...

Can you guarantee that the joke didnt cost MORE seats ? ...

You cannot .....

I presume it DID cost us at least some votes .... your crowing is misplaced pride ....

[WildEyedLiberal]

24. If you really think anyone who would vote BASED ON

The GOP smear about Kerry's joke was ever going to vote Dem to begin with, well...

[still_one]

31. There were vets who were pissed

[WildEyedLiberal]

35. There were vets pissed about the Swift Boat lies too.

So in your opinion it's okay to let lies and smears stand? What the hell?

[Bridget Burke]

51. Now YOU'RE denigrating the intelligence of our troops!

Why do you hate America?

[Trajan]

37. All small things .....

add to bigger things ....

To deny that had any impact whatsoever is really mindbogglingly dense ....

Did it 'change' votes ? ... yes : It did ..... I am positive some independents were turned off by the tenor of the joke ....

It was stupid of him to fuck it up like he did .... he should have made it VERY clear who the target was by setting the joke up better ....

For the record: I gladly voted for Kerry, and would gladly vote for him again .....

There is no free lunch ....

[ProSense]

39. You know what's mindbogglingly dense:

pretending that Kerry said something he didn't. Worse, pretending that this wasn't a RW attack based on a statement that even in it's original context had nothing to do with the claimed distortion. Here, may be the RW can explain it better; although this version for the Heritage Foundation is the revised distortion:

Sen. John Kerry’s mangled anti-Bush joke has metastasized into a week of negative news for liberals hoping to regain control of the Congress. Even his reluctant apology has done little to quash the fires he lit. Significantly, these fires rage because liberals have yet to expunge the scarlet “D” that has adorned them since the Vietnam War -- “D” for disdain of our military.

Indeed, in the run-up to the 2004 presidential election, liberals insisted that the burden of military service was being borne, in Rep. John Murtha’s (D.-Pa.) words, by “people who are volunteering because they could not find a job.” Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) and 14 of his liberal House colleagues sponsored legislation to reinstitute the draft. “It is plain fact,” argued Rep. John Conyers, the dean of the Congressional Black Caucus, “that the military does not come from the higher socio-economic status of society.” Rep. Pete Stark (D.-Calif.) reasoned that a draft “with no deferments and no exceptions” would be “both fair and democratic” because “it will mean that Americans of every background will serve our country, not just the poor and disadvantaged as it is today.”

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed110406a.cfm

Huh, call out the RW scavengers and the media!

Now what was it that Kerry said about Bush? Obviously, there is free lunch, and the RW dishes and Democrats eat their own at opportunistic moments!

[LittleClarkie]

26. Can you guarantee it didn't gain us some votes?

Can you guarantee that it didn't gain us some seats?

Neither can you.

I think for at least some people, the attempt by the Republicans to attack Kerry was motivational. And even one of my Independant friends felt sorry for the guy.

And botched joke or no, he did help us with his PAC money. There is a good chance that we gained votes because of that money as well.

[elperromagico]

27. No, it's called a joke.

Having no discernable sense of humor, you would not understand. :)

Latin is dead -- as you will be if you don't learn to laugh.

Still, the Democratic Party is the big tent party; I embrace you in friendship, O Humorless One. :hug:

[Mass]

43. He probably costs us and won us some seats.

The answer is probably that, if the effect could be counted, it would probably be neutral.

[karynnj]

50. It's impossible to prove either way

The people who decided in the last 3 days before the election broke more for the Democrats than those who decided earlier per the exit polls. This suggests it had no effect. (Even as a Kerry person - I won't claim that the extra 2% Dem was because of Kerry)

Overall though, Kerry was a leader speaking on Iraq. His This Week appearance a few weeks ago when he questioned the morality of Republicans waiting 2 months to change a failed policy to wait for the election did resonate. The danger being the person speaking out the most is you become a target.

Kerry knows this - he did it once before. Who else is speaking in terms of morality? How many Democrats were arguing not to overtly challange the Iraq policy because they thought it could hurt election chances. For Kerry, this is an issue of the troops and morality. The bottom line: he cares far more about the individual soldiers than the creeps who mounted this smear, maybe because in them he sees a younger version of himself and his friends.

[MGD]

23. God Bless Haggerd!!!

[LittleClarkie]

29. Yep, knocked Kerry right off the front page

I see by my Kerry google alert that some are still trying to make hay though. Ptewi on them.

Much obliged, Haggard.

[Kahuna]

41. Right. I saw Haggard as a counter affect to Kerry's speech. So

it was probably a wash.

[wisteria]

62. People didn't vote their morals this time- it was Iraq and corruption.

two issues that Kerry addressed long before the other Dem's got on board.

[Sensitivity]

36. Bush attacking Kerry on Network TV was a GIFT to Dems. It nationalized the race

The BIG MO for the dems was the nationalizing of the election.
Some Dem were just too naive, scared or just too taken with themselves
to stand together and fight. The STORY would have turned against the
BIG LIE leaving Bush and McCain scummy naked pimps on the street.

The haggard story would have distacted the gotcha hounds anyway,
but it would have happened after a real Dem vs Repug tussle in which
the Pukes could have even more bloodied.

The voters were ready to nationalize the election over Iraq and
corruption rather than pay attention to local and personality issues.
Kerry helped. Bringing Bush and Iraq to the fore what exactly what was
need at just that time in the '06 contest.

But the Party lacked the discipline to make the most of it.

Dems did not trust that judgement and failed to hold strong as they should have.

[wisteria]

63. Absolutely. They had better start standing together now and

show some leadership or we won't be leading for long.
What they did to Kerry was shameful and unnecessary.

[Raine]

38. Yeah it sure did

:rofl:

[sendero]

40. It hurt us...

.. as much as I thought it would. None, zero.

[Mass]

42. The GOP blew their hand by overreacting. The vast majority of the country took it for what it was:

a stunt by the GOP, nothing else.

[Apollo11]

44. Ask Tammy Duckworth

Ask Tammy Duckworth if Kerry's botched joke cost her votes in Illinois.

The Iraq War is not funny. John Kerry is not a comedian.

It was a bad-taste joke, unfunny and badly told (by a so-called smart guy, who likes to laugh at the dummies!).

Even the logic of the joke doesn't make sense, because Bush went to Yale - which according to most people - would make him a member of the highly-educated elite (like Kerry). So looking down on uneducated folks who don't "make an effort to be smart" (which is also dumb - because either you is smart or you ain't - what's effort got to do with it?).

Fact the facts. Kerry will not come back in 08. Sorry if that disappoints some folks around here.

I'm confident we will be able to find a good Presidential candidate (like Al Gore).

[Mass]

45. I dont know if he will , but I would be happy to see him do that,

just to come back at people who can not rejoice of a victory without attacking other Dems.

Get over it. The sooner, the better. We will have work to do and your attack on Democrats on what was a positive post is stupid.

Go Democrats! We won! This is the only thing that should matter.

And Tammy was probably hurt a lot more by the VFW endorsing her opponent than by anything else, and she still did incredibly well in a strongly Republican district where she was NEVER in the leads in the polls. Kudos to her and sorry if the truth disturbs some here.

[ProSense]

47. Bullshit!

In a statement, VFW PAC director Salvatore Capirchio, said the group endorsed Roskam “because of his track record of supporting veterans and service members as an Illinois state representative and then as a state senator.”

Roskam also completed a 22-item questionnaire required for anyone seeking the PAC’s endorsement. The Duckworth campaign never answered the questionnaire, Capirchio said. Her campaign called once asking about a possible endorsement, was told about the questionnaire and was not heard from again, he said.

“Meanwhile, someone from the Roskam campaign called and asked about a potential endorsement. The PAC endorsement was given based on the questionnaire answers, Roskam’s legislative record and because of the recommendation of the leadership of the Illinois VFW,” Capirchio said.

http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2339532.php

McCain, Roskam overlook differences
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/117603,CST-NWS-mccain31.article

[karynnj]

59. This was never a joke in terms of what the Iraq war was

it was more properly a snarky comment that had as its root the fact that it was "not doing your homework" that led to an absolute disaster - it is the same as how they dealt with Katrina. (Not preparing conscientiously is the problem not innate intelligence.) Kerry had at other times made this point.

Looked at in the context of everything Kerry has said in 2002 -2006 on Iraq, it is clear that Kerry is very seriously working to drive opinion to fixing Iraq. This was simply a joke - used with no problem for a long time - can't stand up to intense scrutiny.

[wisteria]

64. Oh please, you find one person who lost a race and you blame it on

Kerry. Did Duckworth say that Kerry cost her the election? I would guess not, that is just you talking. There were other issues why Duckworth didn't make it, but it had nothing to do with Kerry.
Maybe McCain's crase remark about other soldiers having no limbs implying that that doesn't make you qualified for Congress had a large effect on voting.

Don't count Kerry out- I am sure you would like too- but don't, because Kerry is a fighter and a risk taker and he is focused on changing the course in Iraq.

[wishlist]

46. Common wisdom: A lot worse for Bush to botch a war than Kerry to botch a joke n/t