Okay, where are all those who said it would be stolen?

[Zynx]

It most obviously wasn't. We won virtually all the close races. I think those who kept saying fraud would do us in owe us an apology for trying to depress our optimism.

[wryter2000]

1. Thanks for reminding me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2574147

Had this little gem bookmarked

[DFW]

87. You don't think they tried?

What about all the robo-calling, which might well have cost Tammy Duckworth the seat in IL-06,
and very nearly cheated Jim Webb out of his Senate seat (and the Democrats out of the Senate).
I, for one, was never so pessimistic as to think we had no chance, but I was sure that electoral
fraud would be attempted, and it was. I said from the beginning that only a tidal wave of Democratic
voters turning out would be enough to overcome the disadvantage that we would suffer due to electoral fraud.

And so it was. I only hope that there is thorough investigation into the actions of everyone
from Harris in 2000 to Blackwell in 2004, preferably going all the way up to Rove in the director's
chair--I'm sure he left some latents on the megaphone.

[wtmusic]

2. Based on the last two elections

I think caution was in order. I don't fault anyone for that.

[wryter2000]

4. Caution, yes

But there were some folks saying it was hopeless, hopeless, I tell you!

[NVMojo]

86. well, how do we know they didn't rig it and more of us showed up

and voted and it over-rode the rigging count? Or maybe they let us have it this time so our leaders could hang themselves, setting up the repug "I told you so" party for a major win in 08? This has all been too weird. They want us off guard for 08, I tell ya.

[conservdem]

3. I was wondering the same thing.

[wholetruth00]

5. I was one. Still feel that way. Folks were just a little wiser about it.

[Justyce]

6. There was an awful lot of intimidation, computer crashes,

harrassing phone calls, people being told they had to vote elsewhere, etc... I really think they did try to corrupt this election too, but we were just winning by too much to overcome - JMO. I think we still need to seriously pursue election reform & getting rid of paperless electronic voting.

[LiberalArkie]

7. Just remember that the CEO of Diebold was removed by Diebold.

Probably for just what happened in 2004. That probably explains all the unapproved patches to the software that people were worried about.

I am always confident of the human spirit. I believe, on the whole, that people will do the right thing. It may also be that some of the locals had had all the corruption they could stand. It used to happened in the old south, when some of the election officials did NOT accidently throw away a ballot box.

Just my thoughts..

[ccpup]

8. No, they don't owe you anything.

I'd rather be cautious, prepared for the unexpected and hard-working than be caught unaware and then cry about my unpreparedness (and their theft) later.

We're Dems, so, therefore, we shouldn't insist everyone follow the Party Line and say the same thing. If we did that, we'd be Repugs!

I wonder what the vote totals would have been if there hadn't been computer error involved? Election Day didn't go off without a hitch, mind you. Vote flipping, voter intimidation, etc and so on was still prevalent, but it wasn't strong enough to beat back the Blue Flood.

Just my two cents.

[gully]

9. I can understand people thinking it may be. We need PAPER BALLOTS

regardless.

[nxylas]

10. In my case

Happy to be proved wrong. As for trying to quench optimism, I can't speak for anybody else, but I was trying to quench complacency. I actually wonder if the election frauds in 2000 and 2004 were partly responsible for the high voter turnout. People knew what was at stake and made sure they stood up to be counted. Wouldn't that be deliciously ironic if it turned out to be true? Roveian tactics turning out to contain the seeds of their own destruction.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. They tried

hard

Only if you care to look at the exit polls for both Virginia and Montana...

They tried. Don't fool yourself into thinkng they did not

What overcame it is exactly what was needed, MASIVE and I MEAN MASSIVE turn out

If we slack, 2008 will be very different

Keep yer eye on the ball... and don't loose track of it

[Maine-i-acs]

17. Amen

A win by us does not preclude attempts at a theft. The margins were just high enough this time.

[BootinUp]

12. apology naaah, but it would be helpful

if folks questioned conspiracy mania and whether it helps or hurts the real goal.

[BattyDem]

13. Don't get complacent! We still need to get rid of those machines or at the very least ...

get a paper trail! Just because things went our way this time, that doesn't mean the problems don't exist anymore. Hackable machines, no paper trail, secret software and corporate-owned voting systems are not acceptable in a democracy! Neither is voter suppression and intimidation. We can't give up on this now.

[Der Blaue Engel]

14. Hey, I was very worried about fraud

Even though I was certain that we'd win in a landslide if there wasn't any. It's hard to have faith when you've been kicked around like we have. I think we beat them this time by sheer numbers, too many to steal.

I say today is a day to party and rejoice, not beat up on each other. (Well, okay, that link in the next post was pretty good...you can gloat on that one.) :)

[Maine-i-acs]

15. I for one really think they tried!

VA and MT seemed closer than polls predicted. Again the machine irregularities heavily favored Republicans.

I believe there was some point-shaving, either through electronic means or vote suppression ... but it was too little, too late this time.

[mtnsnake]

16. Thank you

I don't blame the voter fraud afficionadoes for their concerns. Voter fraud is a concern of ALL of us, but sometimes it got to the point where it was entirely counterproductive, as in 'Why should we even try if they're simply going to steal it?'

[BootinUp]

allow me

to mention that election fraud is probably the term that is recommended. (So I have been told)

:)

[mtnsnake]

38. thanks Jim

Yeah, sometimes my wording isn't up to par :)

[Big Sky Boy]

18. We don't know it wasn't stolen

I think the results are valid. But what we know now from Ohio 2004 is that there was no single prime directive from on high.

There were all kinds of inappropriate manipulations all over the state that led to a 200,000 vote discrepancy.

We don't know that the same group of angry people didn't stuff the box for our side.

Again -- I don't think they did.

But until we have a verifiable count with real audit trail, none of us can be comfortable that the count is correct.

We should not stop asking for that just because we won.

[Pragmatic Pilgrim]

28. Or that the Repulsives tried but miscalculated.

It'll be VERY interesting if the Repulsives call for a recount in VA and it turns out they lost by a whole lot more...thanks to deliberate miscounts by their own people.

And there's still the issue of voter-suppression & voter-intimidation campaigns by the R's.

I think the posters who warn that just because we won we shouldn't relax our vigilance--and I'll add, "redouble our efforts to eliminate Voter ID laws"--are exactly right. Attacks on the vote will never halt.

[kster]

19. The votes are still being counted in secret

Win or Lose this practice has to be stopped.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7236791207107726851&q=hacking+democracy

[Dr Fate]

20. I was not one of those negative naysayers- BUT- who is to say the GOP did not try?

Who is to say we would not have won even bigger than we did had it not been for dirty pool?

There were indeed reports of "glitches" and "irregularities" and illegal mischief all day yesterday.

Just because we won does not mean they still did not try to cheat.

I disagree w/ any suggestion that we abandon our healthy skepticism...

[bobbie]

21. Maybe we're celebrating because there were so many votes cast against the regime

That even the huge number of stolen and suppressed votes couldn't help the fascists.

It's not time to relax. If you're suggesting that election fraud isn't a problem here then you're deluded.

[demo dutch]

22. People have gotten a lot more "Voter Smart"

[GetTheRightVote]

23. It must be paper elections, just because it was a land slide we won

but what about the next election which carries a presidential election. WE must be cautious at all times so that it never happens again to the public.

:kick:

[acmejack]

24. Owe you an apology?

That would seem to rather specious reasoning to an uninformed observer, as if everyone was maliciously attempting to "suppress your optimism". Give me a break! I'm thrilled we won, but I'll be darned if I'll apologize for being concerned that the republiclown history of dirty tricks would result in another stolen election!

I'll add that the 110th Congress hasn't been seated yet...

But on second thought, I guess I am deeply contrite :cry: that you were bummed :eyes: by my fears.

[ThomCat]

26. Agreed.

because of fraud and voter suppression I'd bet our margins are noticably depressed. Instead of needing 50% to win we ended up needing a higher percentage. But how do we know what percentage?

That fact that we won despite the dirty tricks does not mean that the dirty tricks didn't happen. And it doesn't mean we should not be concerned about them.

Anyone who dismisses the dirty tricks and wants an apology is being a polyanna.

[asjr]

25. I will not apologize for how I felt. I really thought

theft would happen again. Glad we won but after 6 years of thievery I couldn't help but feel downtrodden.

[Bitwit1234]

27. I did

I was sooooooo afraid that the republians would pull something they are so good at that. And if the bloggers and other watchers had not constantly kept bringing such stuff as the robo-calls to everyones attention they might have made it a closer race. The republicans are so damn good at dirty tricks I was afraid, I really was that they would do something.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Given I spent all last night, making screenshots from the MT

SOS just in case they needed them, I owe you nothing... excpet this

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

If you think they will not try, you are not paying attention. They clearly did... but the margins were simply NOT there to pull it off

It was that concern that had many of us VOTING EARRLY and INSISTING ON GETTING A FUCKING PAPER TRAIL

And if you believe they will not try again, I have a piece of really cheap, real eatate, with ocean view on the nevada california border. It may even include a bridge to nowhere.

[PermanentRevolution]

41. Thank you again for that, btw

Glad it turned out to be unnecessary, but even gladder that we had it documented in case it was needed

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. I am pooped

and keepign the damn file until they get sworn in!

[DuaneBidoux]

30. We have to face he possibility the really won in 2004 (not 2000!) n/t

[Generator]

43. That's so insulting to John Conyers and the thousands that stood in line

in Ohio, the thousands of voters purged, spoiled, that basically never existed. It really is. Let's blame the gays, let's CHANGE our values, let's throw away women's rights, let's pump the war. NO, let's be Democrats and Conyers certainly didn't write a book about What Went Wrong in Ohio and all those people that tried so hard to vote for Kerry becaue Bush had a MANDATE! (Rot in hell Bob Shrum.) 2004 is not going to be revisionist history becuase of this election. It was obviously close enough to steal AND everyone knew it came down to Ohio. That was all they needed and they took it.

[DuaneBidoux]

79. Don't get me wrong--there were always injustices (and there always are some)

I'm just saying that unlike 2000 they may well have not made the difference in 2004. In any case, we have power now and I hope that one of the things we really push for is true election reform!

[Spangle]

31. Who says there wasn't funny business going on?

When someone is 'playing', it doesn't have to be a Republican agenda or a Democrat agenda. And I don't think that part has been 'gotten' yet. Most still think it's one party or the other playing dirty.

It could be the 'oil' people. It could be the..

Get it?

A lot of people are not happy with Bush's dictatorship on so many different levels. With the balance of power restored, it's less of a dictatorship.

It really hasn't been that long, that negative about could be said about Bush in the media. The Owners/Owner had to allow it. The people had to be allowed to report/say without worry about loosing their job. What changed? The Owners/Owners views about Jr Changed. That doesn't mean they became a Democrat.

Also, it has been said all along, if enough people turn out, it's harder to 'fix' the votes. The bigger the margian, the harder to close the gap.

[Placebo]

36. It's true.

There was probably still fraud in places but the Democrats came out in such large numbers that it offset it by a slim margin of victory. Who knows how much bigger this "wave" could have been if we had fair elections in America?

[TheWraith]

37. Not quite.

"It really hasn't been that long, that negative about could be said about Bush in the media. The Owners/Owner had to allow it. The people had to be allowed to report/say without worry about loosing their job. What changed? The Owners/Owners views about Jr Changed."

No, they didn't. The media caters to the public mood, and when Bush was riding high, they didn't want to open themselves to charges of whatever by the flying monkey right, which had suddenly gotten a megaphone with which to call people unamerican. This was true even when Bush was less popular, though the water was safer, because they wanted to try and maintain that false sense of balance. It has nothing to do with how the higher-ups feel, except at Fox: most networks are in business to make money, and they're happy to do that even with things that go against any political leanings they might have.

[Arkana]

32. We were right to be on our guard.

But I did not piss on ANYONE'S parade.

[primative1]

33. I have to admit I am surprised ...

But it could have been and thats one thing that should be fixed during this 2 year window when we know at least a little light is going to shine in.

[MGD]

34. We owe them a thank you. They don't owe us an apology.

How different things might have been had they/we remained silent about this threat?

[slackmaster]

52. That's hard to say

Maybe you can shed some light on it.

I will say they did raise awareness of some significant potential problems. But at the end of the day, more people than ever voted on poorly secured electronic machines.

[TheWraith]

35. Hell yes.

Of course, I doubt that most of the real offenders will have the sand to step up and admit that perhaps the scale and degree of possible vote fraud was exaggerated--particularly the people who spent the entire campaign implying that Diebold controlled all vote counts everywhere. The machines are bad because they're insecure and unreliable, but they're far from the automated Republican electors that it was often implied. The classic forms of voter supression and fraud, as demonstrated in TN and VA, as well as various races across the country, are still the Republican's tactics of choice.

[AlinPA]

39. Yes, I was one,but I was not "trying to depress our optimism". I still don't

trust the Diebold machines.

[Milo_Bloom]

40. Do you really think they didn't try?

No, fraud didn't do us in, but do you think that Fraud may have made this far closer than it ever was? Do you really think VA came down this close or do you suspect about 30K votes in the R column aren't real?

Personally, I believe the victory was SO MONUMENTAL, it overcame the fraud.

[Karenca]

105. They tried

'Personally, I believe the victory was SO MONUMENTAL, it overcame the fraud.'

My thoughts exactly.

[truthisfreedom]

42. i screamed "chin up" and "soldier on!" as often as i could.

i reminded everyone that if we got the vote out as much as possible, they couldn't afford to cheat... it would be far too obvious.

[abburdlen]

45. I apologize

Based on the history of the GOP's dirty tricks, outright fraud and the media's refusal to take it seriously I sincerely didn't put it past them to pull it off again.

The republicans did stoop to new lows to depress the vote. They did blatantly break the law trying to stay in power. There were glaring problems with electronic voting and more often it was to the benefit of the GOP. But in the end we still won the day. Not only did the democratic party "thump" the republicans but optimism beat cynicism and already there have been concrete changes because of it (bye-bye Rummy, don't left the door hit you on the way out).

I'll personally say I'm sorry for my statements of pessimism on how fair this election was (not) going to be especially if had the effect of anyone questioning whether their vote mattered. I'll add however that even though we won the day yesterday we're foolish if we think fixing our broken electoral system ought to be one of our top priorities. Thank goodness (and a lot of hard work) WE get to set agenda now.

[demokatgurrl]

46. sitting here with my fingers and toes crossed...

hoping they don't pull it off in Virgnia.

[Imagevision]

47. Listen, if there wasn't so much election theft talk in the air, it would have been stolen

To the extent of the well informing HBO Documentary, "Hacking Democracy"

Diebold and Rove were paranoid about pulling what they did in 2004 election and it worked fine...!

[oasis]

48. Lou Dobbs was a big help in making the public aware of voting machine

theft. He ran feature stories on the subject for weeks.

[Zynx]

95. Some claim Rove pulled off 9/11 in front of the whole country...

What's a few votes a precinct tipping close races?

[Imagevision]

49. HBO' S "Hacking Democracy" - Lou Dobbs, it all adds up - Rove/Diebold got nervous and

took their chances using other methods they thought would be sufficient.
(surprise)

[slackmaster]

55. If expanding the Conspiracy doesn't explain a situation,

You can always CONTRACT the Conspiracy.

:eyes:

[happydreams]

60. Just look at VA race. Webb's campaign contacted DOJ over it.

The threat of stolen elections is alive and well for a time when the tide of discontent isn't as strong.

[flpoljunkie]

61. Voter suppression, intimidation, disenfranchisement, dirty tricks is so much more fun

The bottom line: Voting in our democracy is not transparent and is not auditable in many cases because of touchscreen machines. Voting has become faith-based, and that is not good enough!

[Hosnon]

50. THANK YOU! I grew so sick of seeing the first response to every thread being:

"Won't matter, we can't win: DIEBOLD."

And yes, there probably were some problems but some here claimed that Diebold would cook us no matter what.

[slackmaster]

51. Some of them are stuggling to keep the Conspiracy alive

Still without hard proof that there ever was one. Here are some gems I have collected today. I'll leave the authors anonymous in the interests of harmony.

- Diebold technicians got mad at their GOP masters and rebelled against them en masse.

- The people who control the results decided to let Democrats take this one so their guard would be down in 2008. They're still out there lurking in the shadows.

- The Democratic landslide would have been much larger if not for brave efforts of the Conspiracy fighters, who got rid of electronic voting machines (even though there are more in use now than ever before).

- They took Neil Boortz down as a token Libertarian to distract us (Boortz was unable to vote because of a "problem" with his registration.) Same thing happened to the Republican Governor of South Carolina.

- Exit polls have never been wrong in all of history. Anything that is called an "exit poll" is necessarily accurate. In fact, EVERY OTHER NATION ON EARTH uses exit polls to gauge the accuracy of its election results.

- Three close races in Nevada went narrowly to Republicans. Ergo, the Conspiracy is alive and well.

[zulchzulu]

53. The number of voters was too overwhelming to have it stolen

You can bet they tried...but based on the lines of people and the immense turnout, it was just too much...too many voters destroyed the possibility.

In case you didn't know, the exit polls were very correct. Now rewind to 2004. Exit poll numbers for electronic voting machine districts were VERY different than the "results".

We have to keep it up...

[God Almighty]

54. They did their best to steal and rig it.

They were only able to steal it in places where there was no paper trail. Dennis Kucinich worked hard to protect the voters in Ohio. We could have won bigger without the machines.

[slackmaster]

57. It's very easy to say that, but where is your evidence?

We're talking about a CRIMINAL matter here. Your gut feelings about what was really going on don't count.

[ThomCat]

59. Have you been watching the news

of all the reported "irregularities?" There are even a few FBI investigations starting.

[slackmaster]

67. Sure, and that's no better than hearsay you read here or on blogs

There are even a few FBI investigations starting.

Cool beans. Please let us know when someone gets indicted.

[ThomCat]

68. I hope you enjoy keeping your head in the sand.

I hear the sand is nice and warm. :hi:

[slackmaster]

69. Argumentum ad hominem, the final resort of someone who lacks a logical reply

:nuke:

But you are so much better educated than I am, because you learned about the subject by watching TV.

[ThomCat]

75. Actually, I don't watch TV

and that is an ad hominem attack. :7

[slackmaster]

76. Please accept my apology

And do let us know when those FBI investigations turn up something billable.

[featherman]

56. Generally agree but not that happy with a couple OH results where our

old pal Ken Blackwell was still in charge

[Thrill]

58. They're still trying to steal it

[Zynx]

93. Eh?

[Fire Walk With Me]

62. Selfish idiots or opportunistic masterminds. Which is more uncomfortable?

Did they work over any midterm elections? The only odd one I know of is how Enron and Ahnold snatched California. If the presidential elections were stolen, then look forward to anomalies next time as well.

[slackmaster]

73. Enron and Arnold snatched California???

I thought Gray Davis lost it.

But I only live here, and have been voting for only 30 years, so what would I know?

[ProudDad]

85. You're both wrong

Darrell Issa bought it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_California_recall

[keopeli]

63. Why are you criticising your own supporters? Because they were cautious?

Every long-time DUer knows the danger of voter fraud. It's very possible that the tide of Democratic voters overwhelmed any vote rigging possibilities.

Rather than demand an apology from your friends and advocates who were cautious and skeptical until the very end, why not congratulate all of us across the political spectrum who pulled this off?

I welcome all the skeptics and pessimists, the dreamers and idealists, the practical and ruthless, liberals moderates and conservatives, one an all who pulled off a major success yesterday.

Remember, the people you are asking to apologize VOTED for DEMS across the board. They are part of why WE won.

Peace.

[ClassWarrior]

64. Nonetheless, NOW's the time to kick into high gear on election reform.

NGU.

[struggle4progress]

65. Frankly, I still expect some weirdness in Virginia. And there were

plenty of stories about people finding that magic touchscreens across the country repeatedly indicated that votes intended for Democrats were going to be allocated to Republicans. I saw a good number of stories about dirty tricks, too.

With the record of the last six years, isn't it at least somewhat surprising that so many Republicans are still in office?

Maybe it's just me -- or maybe we shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to relax ...

[elizm]

66. Owe you an apology???

That is pretty twisted.

[ComerPerro]

70. just wait until Repigs start accusing us of fraud.

[slackmaster]

71. Santorum already did

You missed your cue.

[ComerPerro]

72. he has?

[slackmaster]

74. Yes, there's a thread in GD or here about him requesting seizure

Of voting machines.

:eyes:

[Conker]

77. Am I the only one?

Am I the only one that found all the narrow victories for Democrats suspicious?They won many races by only a couple percentage points.It seems like it should have been more.

[Zynx]

94. That's what polling in many of those races suggested.

Besides, that is actually indicative of clean elections that we did win the close races. If we lost all of those seats by a few points, I would be worried.

[Conker]

103. Yeah, but...

maybe the Democrats won by a larger margin, but the results were changed to play down the significant loss for the Republicans.Especially, since many people predicted a landslide victory.

[greeneyedboy]

78. i am all for having a strong offense AND defense, as long as we are ACTIVE

and not passively wailing about how hopeless things are.

from Glenn Greenwald at Crooks & Liars:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/11/08/american-democracy-still-works/

American democracy still works
By: Glenn Greenwald on Wednesday, November 8th, 2006 at 6:42 AM - PST Submit or Digg this Post

The basic mechanics of American democracy, imperfect and defective though they may be, still function. Chronic defeatists and conspiracy theorists — well-intentioned though they may be — need to re-evaluate their defeatism and conspiracy theories in light of this rather compelling evidence which undermines them (a refusal to re-evaluate one's beliefs in light of conflicting evidence is a defining attribute of the Bush movement that shouldn't be replicated).

Karl Rove isn't all-powerful; he is a rejected loser. Republicans don't possess the power to dictate the outcome of elections with secret Diebold software. They can't magically produce Osama bin Laden the day before the election. They don't have the power to snap their fingers and hypnotize zombified Americans by exploiting a New Jersey court ruling on civil unions, or a John Kerry comment, or moronic buzzphrases and slogans designed to hide the truth (Americans heard all about how Democrats would bring their "San Francisco values" and their love of The Terrorists to Washington, and that moved nobody). It simply isn't the case that we are doomed and destined to lose at the hands of all-powerful, evil forces.

All of the hurdles and problems that are unquestionably present and serious — a dysfunctional and corrupt national media, apathy on the part of Americans, the potent use of propaganda by the Bush administration, voter suppression and election fraud tactics, gerrymandering and fundraising games — can all be overcome. They just were.

Bush opponents haven't been losing because the deck is hopelessly stacked against them. They were losing because they hadn't figured out a way to convey to their fellow citizens just how radical and dangerous this political movement has become. Now they have, and as a result, Americans see this movement for what it is and have begun the process of smashing it. . . .

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

80. I witnessed voter supression first hand in Denver. They tried but

the people stuck it out in spite of the obstacles.

The election system needs serious fixing now. MKj

[NotGivingUp]

81. who the hell ARE you? and 'who' are you calling 'we'?

[OnionPatch]

82. Personally, I think they probably tried

and no, I don't have evidence, it's just a hunch (at least for now) and I'm entitled to it. I've been right on most of my hunches about these people, anyway. I believe they probably just couldn't pull it off in the right places at the right times. They didn't have enough minions, there were too many Dem voters, more Dem poll watchers, etc. They knew we were all watching, too. I would not be surprised to find out it wasn't as close as they're saying, that they did manage to steal some votes.

I am immensely grateful that our side pulled it off, but we still need serious election reform ASAP and I have nothing against those who are upset and suspicious about election fraud. It's a serious threat to our democracy.

[marions ghost]

112. to make a long story short

I KNOW the Dem poll watcher at my voting place was doing an excellent job and will be filing a report on some questionable procedures that were observed.

The more Dem poll watchers the better. Thanks so much to everyone who did this. It is a vital service to democracy.

[buddysmellgood]

83. You think they didn't try to steal? You think all the votes were counted. You

owe me an apology.

[Rebellious Republican]

84. Uh, guess you do not live in Florida, election fraud is alive and well

down here. Check out the Jennings/Buchanan race as exhibit A.

Snip>Supervisor of Elections Kathy Dent couldn't’t explain why 8,000 to 10,000 fewer people voted in the congressional race than in other high-profile races for governor, attorney general or U.S. Senate. But she said nothing mechanical went wrong with the county’s $4.7 million touchscreen voting machine system.<snip http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061108/NEWS/611080506

Well she got one thing right, it would be difficult to have a mechanical malfunction on an electronic touch screen.

It is with great pleasure, that I retire my distress flag gif


And with great pride, hoist my new flag in honor of our new direction

[eridani]

88. Some of our races WERE stolen

Check out the Florida hankypanky. Our turnout overcame the disadvantage this time. It may not next time, and it damned well didn't in 2004. Dean is right--trustworthy elections have to be one of the first things we achieve.

[Zynx]

92. I would say FL-13 was stolen, but I personally have acknowledged that

Florida elections are a special case since that state wouldn't know democracy if it came and whacked it on the head.

[bobbieinok]

89. you didn't follow all the posts about problems on Tues???

Well, golly, just keep on trusting the GOP, the corporations, etc. There's really no need to keep a careful watch on the voting process. People are just alway so honest and upright.

Have you checked the posts in Election Reform???

[Zynx]

91. Of course there are problems, but I don't see any grand conspiracy.

Democrats did just as well if not better than expected.

[eridani]

97. Exit polls matched final results pretty well except for--

--guess where? Montana and Virginia. The "grand conspiracy" is merely Repubs trying whatever they can get by with depending on where they happen to live. The mix includes messing with voter registration, various election day vote suppression tricks, messing with the ballots or DREs, or fucking with the tabulation. Which elements dominate varies strictly by locality, and of course all can be ovecome if we have big enough margins. We did this time, but we sure didn't in 2004.

[Vinca]

90. I still think they probably tried to steal it in some places, but

the people came out in almost unprecedented numbers and won it anyway. There's still plenty of fishy stuff that went on. No apologies from me for being paranoid about the way we vote. In fact, discussing possible theft of votes on blogs and, finally, in the MSM, might have done something to discourage the thieves. We need to work very hard for paper trails on every machine before the next presidential election.

[Apollo11]

96. Transparent and accurate

That's what elections should be. Like in England where everyone votes on paper and the votes are counted out by hand in full view of observers representing all the candidates.

Just because Democrats won this time doesn't necessarily prove that there is no risk of partisan interference with the vote-recording and counting process. It certainly doesn't prove that the system is 100% safe and secure.

Just because nobody has yet been convicted by a court of law for helping Bush steal the 2000 election, or the 2004 election, doesn't mean that Bush won those elections fair and square. There is a lot of evidence that thousands of citizens wanted to vote and tried to vote and thought they had voted ... but their votes were never counted. So yes we should be worried.

Like Bush says - if you look at individual races - the election this year was close.

I am inclined to believe that with 100% fair and transparent elections (every step of the way from registering voters to declaring results) - Democrats would have won more seats in the House and the Senate ... and by wider margins in most cases.

[GOTV]

98. Those who said it was useless were wrong, simple as that...

... and I don't know if they'll apologize for telling us all our efforts to canvass and GOTV were in vain but hopefully, next time, they'll temper their remarks.

At least they could drop the "we're all DOOOOOMED. The GOP will steal it all again!" rhetoric.

The real shame is that some might have believed the chicken littles and stayed home. Stayed home on canvassing day and well as stayed home on voting day.

[Norquist Nemesis]

99. I said it and in the words of JK, I apologize to no one!

I freely admit I posted my fears about Karl's Math, but never in such a way or with intention to 'depress our optimism.' Can't say whether I ever posted it would be a certainty versus that they would be trying to steal. And frankly, it looks like they did try using the same tactics as before.

They just miscalculated the margin.

[MadHound]

100. Sorry, I won't apologize for my comments

Which were essentially that I thought in light of the past three elections, this one would probably be stolen. However I also added the caveat that this should not mean that voters should stay home. Just a warning, a caution, a way of bringing to light this problem that we all know has happened time and again recently.

And part of the reason that I think this electiono *did* go our way is because of people like me, raising a ruckus about voter theft and disenfranchisement. We shined enough of a spotlight on this problem nationwide that it probably made the 'Pugs real leery of trying Grand Theft Votes. We actually got national airplay on this issue, multiple times, before the election. If people like myself hadn't been raising such a stink, as happened in '04, we would probably have been screwed again.

Also, voting problems did occur. If I heard the news correctly, there were voting "irregularities" in eighteen states this time around, more than in past elections. Most of them happened due to electronic voting machines, and people were aware of what was happening, and called people on it.

So no, I'm not going to apologize for bringing warning. Frankly I think people like myself did a great service, both to the party and this country. We raised an issue to such heights that the 'Pugs dared not to try it on a grand scale, and hence, we got a relatively clean election and the Dems won.

[seabeyond]

101. 18,000 MISSING votes in sarasota florida. gone. is that an OH WELL

to you. is that acceptable?

[windbreeze]

102. just curious...

who says it wasn't? does anyone here have any hard proof, that no one, at any time, manipulated or affected any of the votes in this most recent election? ..just because WE won, doesn't prove anything...when I think of how damned sure Rove/* and Cheney were that they were going to keep control of Congress, it makes the outcome even more suspect...you say, sheer numbers....I would like to see number comparisons/differences between 2004/2006.... sorry I am suspicious, but after the last 6 years, I feel I should be...ability to hack the vote has been proven possible time and time again....

I remember on election night there were many posts on DU, asking what the hell was going on with this or that race...that hundreds/thousands of votes kept switching columns....Perhaps there's a reality we all better face...if the republicans can manipulate the vote, by hacking... LOL...sure we wouldn't do such a thing..uh huh.....no paper trail...so the only thing that could possibly happen in that case, is that the vote tallies are delayed as numbers go back and forth, from one party's candidate to the other party's candidate(sound familiar anyone?)...until one side quits, because they realize they have been had..how absolutely perfect is that situation...because the party that's been suspected of stealing/hacking/manipulating votes in their favor in previous elections, now cannot scream foul w/o implicating themselves as being involved, positively...so of course, it's better for them to keep quiet and act as though they are being good sports by giving in...I am not saying this DID happen...I am saying don't tell me it couldn't have...as long as there are machines with NO paper trail...the vote IS questionable...this is one of the first and MOST IMPORTANT things that a Democratic Congress MUST take care of...our vote MUST BE SECURED....

Another thought....WE have NO CLUE about what their plans include...Maybe that determination we were showing, wasn't the type of resistance they expected and surprised them into rethinking what to do and caused them to back off..don't we think it strange that they all kept telling Allen to concede w/o a fight?? I do..it's totally out of character...

But wait...it's a couple months before we take office...so let's keep our fingers crossed and stay very alert, perhaps it wouldn't even hurt us to mislead them a little about what we'll do after we take over... after all, they ARE still in control until January...unless....something happens to keep them in control...with the way they've pushed their agenda in the last 6 years...the meekly giving up they've done, just doesn't fit the script...

Every time you feel you should trust them...Think of 9/11, and the investigation they didn't want and lied about, how this president made himself unavailable to testify, and tried to railroad the investigation...about their personal family corruption and suspicious connections to everyone, including BinLaden....Think about Katrina/NOLA.....about Afghanistan/Iraq, how they outed an undercover agent to get even(how many died as a result?)....Think of global warming...of Cafta...of Medicare...of the elderly and poor who have suffered...of the middle class who's disappearing, due to their rich man's tax breaks, think of the men and women who have died for his illegal wars, whose caskets we were not even allowed to see returned, as though they deserved to be hidden, instead of honored...the pedophiles in Congress who preyed on their young pages....the unending CORRUPTION, the hundreds of signing statements, the trashing of the Constitution, lost jobs, border fences, how we've been treated as though WE are the terrorists... let's NOT forget ANY of it...let's act accordingly when dealing with them...and let's not take anything for granted ever again especially our votes....suspect everything, including offered "olive branches"....
windbreeze

[rinsd]

104. People sounding the alram about fraud are not to blame

A-holes who said stuff like "why bother they will steal it anyway" deserve scorn however

[meldroc]

106. I definitely sounded the alarm.

Don't get me wrong. I'm absolutely happy with the way the election turned out. But there was quite a bit to be worried about, and there still is. The events in Virginia, Denver and Florida, as well as the GOP's voter suppression tricks show that yes, those machines do have lots of problems, and yes, there are people out there who will try to steal elections. The tidal wave was strong enough to overcome the cheaters, but we really need investigations and reform so our elections can be fair.

[MasonJar]

107. I thought that they would try to steal the election again because

they have done so much that is treasonous. If they did try, it was a failure...just too much discontent over their mis-adventures.

[mother earth]

108. How will we ever know the real numbers? The answer is when

we have real election reform. You only know what the results were according to a very tainted process. They couldn't pull it off as easily as they did in 2000 and 2004, true, but don't let me depress you. Enjoy the victory, but don't let it pacify you.

[eridani]

109. Stealing doesn't work as well in the face of high turnout

--and positive action against vote suppression. They actually did steal a couple in Florida however. There was almost enough cheating in Virginia to knock Webb out, and we got lucky. There is a reason that Dean is putting election transparency on the front burner at DNC, namely that cheating worked in 2004, and it may well work in the future unless we do something about it now.

[marions ghost]

111. right

I heard of several instances of cheating in VA (not to mention Webb having his name accidentally chopped off to Jim on the ballot). It could have been a more comfortable margin for Webb. Oh they definitely tried.

Anyone who thinks this election was clean is dreaming.

[WaterDog]

110. I'm one who was convinced

the election would be stolen again though I didn't post about it. I was taking a poll at work if people would be convinced of election fraud if the GOP won again--one yes, one no and several clueless.
This election has changed my perspective completely in that now I see I mustn't give up hope ever. I don't know what happened--I think the best explanation is we overwhelmed them with sheer numbers--what a beautiful American story as I was sure this was the last we'd see of Democracy.

What's really important now is that we get our election system safe and secure for evermore!!! I do believe it is a continuing problem for future elections. Now I really have hope that we can do this!!!


:patriot:

[Skittles]

113. maybe the folks who were supposed to steal it were fed up too

yes INDEED. Really though, these thefts are only feasible in close elections.