DU: Stop with the doom and gloom over Joe Lieberman! It's getting silly.

[ddbaj]

I've seen a lot of posts saying things to the effect of "Even if Lieberman caucuses with the dems, he'll vote with the GOP on important things". This is NONSENSE! Why?

There is ONLY ONE vote we need to care about, and that is the vote to determine which party will be the majority. THAT'S IT! If Joe gives us that, I'm happy. That gives us a 10-8 margin in all the committes, many of which he is not a part of. That gives us the ability to set the agenda, block legislation, etc.

Now, you may say "OH NO! HE WILL VOTE WITH REPUBLICANS AND CAUSE MANY 50/50 SPLITS!" This is a silly concern, why? First of all, the GOP does not vote as a single block. Remember they used to pass a lot of shit 52/48 51/49? DICK CHENEY HAD TO BREAK TIES even when they had 55 votes. So even if (This is an IF) Joe ever votes with the GOP on a big issue, there's a good chance Snowe, Collins, Specter or some other Rep will give us a vote to cancel his out.

Also, if there's ever a 50/50 vote which Cheney breaks in favor of defeating the measure, it was going to be vetoed anyway and having Cheney defeat it has about the same political effect as having Bush veto it.

SO STOP WITH THE DOOM AND GLOOM ABOUT JOE LIEBERMAN! AS LONG AS HE IS IN THE DEM CAUCUS, YOU NEED TO PUT A FUCKING SMILE ON YOUR FACE AND SAY HELLO TO A SENATE MAJORITY LEADER WITH A BIG FAT *D* NEXT TO HIS NAME!

And yes, Caps Lock is cruise control for cool. ;)

[DaveinMD]

1. amen

great post.

[Akoto]

2. I agree. Some people here seem determined to lose.

I don't get it. We score the biggest victory we've had in over a decade, and some people are still hellbent on us coming out short. It was even going on during election night, when these folks absolutely insisted that we weren't going to take the Senate, or even the House.

[SoFlaJet]

3. Joe is a dem

you know why? Because we ALL know he'll ALWAYS look out for himself first and foremost THEN whatever's best for the rest of us and he KNOWS the dems have more to offer than the republicans and would NEVER risk a chairmanship like he's gonna get from us...we KNOW this guy kids

[sui generis]

6. I've never heard it put that way but ROFL

yes, we know he is always going to suck up to power, regardless of who that power is. As long as we're "IT", he's ours.

[SoFlaJet]

12. Exactly sui

now if Allen had lost....then I'd be afraid-Harry aleady called him to tell him he still has his senority-it's all good

[stepnw1f]

4. Joe Lieberman is a POS

I could care less if you consider him to be a Dem or not.

[ddbaj]

7. Regardless of what you think of him...

He will give us the majority in the Senate. The ability to set the agenda or kill any bill in BOTH houses.

[stepnw1f]

10. You Sure about That?

Have you been paying attention to LIEberman?

[wyldwolf]

5. meanwhile, back in the angry left laboratory of Lieberman hate...

...another doom and gloom scenario is being hatched to terrorize Democrats...

[The Magistrate]

8. You Are Quite Right, Sir

The situation is what it is, and the best must be made of it that can be. Majority status in the Sebate is worth a great deal....

[patricia92243]

9. Thanks for the INFORMATIVE post. I know a lot of my fear has been because I was not really aware of

the things you have just pointed out.

Kicked and Recommended!

[Seabiscuit]

11. If you wanted to insult me, you could have at least done it in my thread.

Instead of creating a new thread misrepresenting my position with your strawman caracature, then knocking down your own strawman. At the very least what you've done here is intellectually dishonest.

The point I raised in my thread clearly went over your head.

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2950243&mesg_id=2950243

and: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2950243&mesg_id=2950358

[Barack_America]

13. Everybody is also assuming that all of the Republicans will...

vote with the Republican side. Given the "thumpin" the Repubs just received and how popular they are, I think it's pretty safe to assume that a good number of them will vote with the Dems.

Lieberman is NOT going to caucus with the Repubs, the Dems WILL have the majority.

I agree, let's put this thing to rest.

[The_Counsel]

14. You Know ... I Gotta Agree With You There...

I admit it: I was one of those folks who were afraid Holy Joe would at some point pull a Montreal Screwjob on the Dems. It was the major reason I was pulling for Ned Lamont to win that Senate race outright.

But you know ... this whole "losing the primary and being forced to pull support from Dems, indies AND GOP-ers" thing just may make Joe a better Senator after all. I still think he's too hawkish, but I really think Joe just may be the pragmatic thinking person ALL Senators should be. Indeed, what our forefathers had in mind when they came up with the concept of a Senate. Remember, most of them never liked the idea of political parties, and even spoke out against them.

Having said that: if Joe ever thinks of pulling an Anakin Skywalker and going over to the dark side, he should be "dealt with" Compton style. He should need security on the Senate floor, and not just on the streets of Connecticut, knowutimsayin'...? :evilgrin:

[longship]

15. If Lieberman flips CT voters get the tar, feathers, and pitchforks

CT voters will not stand for Lieberman going back on this promise.

They elected him based on his promise to remain in the Dem caucus. If he tries any funny business he knows what would happen. The CT voters will run him out of the state on a rail, tarred and feathered.

Never underestimate the power of a pissed-off electorate.

[kentuck]

16. Joe Lieberman is a SOB but, by God, he's "our" SOB ! ?

:)

[LoZoccolo]

17. His past voting records indicates 90% of the time he'll vote with the Democrats...

...on issues where the two parties differ. If that lowers, I'd imagine it to be due to the vilification he's recieving from the left, actually.

[madfloridian]

18. He got 70% of Republican vote...

There is a lot of info here about his Republican support. I wonder if it will be hard for him to ignore those who voted him into office?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/581

"Lamont won the Black and the Latino vote

Lamont won the under 45 vote; Lieberman by 16-20% the over 45

24% more if over 65

Lamont won if your total income was 50,000 or less; Lieberman was 24% higher if your income was 200,000 or more

Higher educated people voted for Lamont

72% of those who support Bush were Lieberman supporters

77% who strongly approve of the Iraq War support Joe Lieberman

72% of those say send more troops"

And more at the link...including a devastating WP article about his Republican support.

[wyldwolf]

19. ...won the senate seat and will caucus with Democrats.

[Barack_America]

20. If they wanted to vote for a Republican, they would have voted

for a Republican. There was one on the ballot, after all. What these numbers tell me is that there were an awful lot of Republicans who did not want to vote Republican, but could not bring themselves to vote for a Democrat. These numbers tell me how disgruntled many people in this country are with BOTH parties. Viable Independent candidates can be elected, after all.

People take what they call themselves very seriously, even if that label doesn't actually match up with their political beliefs.

[madfloridian]

21. So what will you do if all incumbents refuse to be voted out?

Will we support their decision as well?

If an incumbent is voted out, decides to run as independent, attacking his fellow Democrat, getting Republican support...is that ok?

Is that what it is coming down to here at DU....excuse everything?

If that happens, and it well could in many cases....what would you do?