Remember in order to convict after an impeachment you need a 2/3 vote in the Senate

[Bjorn Against]

I want to see Bush impeached as much as anyone, but I am glad to see that Conyers is wise enough to take that course of action off the table at least for the time being.

We may be able to just barely squeak by the votes to impeach Bush at this moment, but when the case went to trial in the Senate there is absolutely no way in hell we could get the votes to throw him out of office. We would not only need every single Democrat and Independent (including people like Lieberman and Nelson) but we would also need the backing of fifteen Republicans. In order to get those votes we need a very serious investigation which will lay out the case against Bush to the American people in very clear terms. It is going to take time, and ultimately Bush may finish his remaining two years before the process has time to be completed.

Ultimately however what we are seeking is accountability. I will not be happy until I see George Bush in prison. I want these investigations to thoroughly expose the crimes of the administration that we can guarantee that the second Bush leaves office he will be arrested and put on trial. To me it doesn't matter whether he leaves office through impeachment, resignation, or the expiration of his term all that matters is that he does face some serious consequences.

We need investigations and we need to make sure those investigations have time to run their course so that all Americans will know the crimes Bush has committed. If we can get impeachment great, but lets not rush things. Big trials last a long time, and in order to ensure our prosecution is successful we need to be patient.

So lets quit attacking the Democrats for taking impeachment "off the table" and instead lets be vigilant in ensuring they do their job and issue lots of subpoenas. If we can get some big investigations going we can then aim for accountability, but right now it is too early to call for impeachment as we do not have the votes. If we are patient we will one day see several members of the Bush Administration marching in orange jumpsuits, but if we play our cards too early we may not be successful.

[benddem]

1. when all the facts come out

the liberal or middle road repugs will vote to impeach.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Uncover the crimes committed.

Then we will talk about what to do next.

[bullimiami]

3. you forget what the investigations turn up and what damage that does.

nixon left because his own party told him he had to go.

i think after the dirty lies and corruption is exposed the same thing would happen again.

[Bjorn Against]

4. No I did not forget that, read my post

I make it very clear I want some big investigations, and it is certainly not impossible that those investigations could give us the votes to impeach. What I am arguing is that we do not have the votes now and that we need to be careful at this stage to make sure we have a case strong enough to swing fifteen Republican Senators all of whom were at one time hard-core Bushbots.

[LiberalFighter]

13. Right... it has be bad enough as Nixon, Foley to make it happen

[bullimiami]

15. what they have done is much much worse than nixon.

it just needs exposure that cant be plausibly denied away.
many devout followers and party faithful are still inclined to accept what bush says even though it is now on obviously flimsy ground.
with a little more evidence many of those will also be forced to face the sick reality.

[DearAbby]

5. After the evidence is exposed

via the investigations and hearings, we will not have to worry about having the votes. These people want to have a political career following >>> BUSH <<< They'll be more than willing to convict and remove from office.

[librechik]

6. impeachment will fail

in the meantime we get to humiliate the fascists and drive a stake through their hearts by exposing their crimes to all. If we dont, we are complicit imo.

Or maybe just the threat will do it with this coward Bush. He could resign and avoid all the garbage that will be slung.

[Cerridwen]

7. Can a sitting president be brought up on criminal charges by

anyone other than the senate? For example, probable cause of criminal activity is found through invesitgations...can a sitting president be charged for criminal activities and be required to stand trial by the criminal justice system...like you or I would be?

edit: punctuation

[Bjorn Against]

8. My understanding is no...

If I am not mistaken a President can not be arrested or convicted of a crime while they are in office, they can however be charged criminally the moment they leave office for abuses made while they were in power.

If there are any lawyers here perhaps they could provide further clarification, but I don't think we can anticipate the possibility of any actual charges being filed until he is no longer President. Most of the members of his Administration do not have that protection however.

[Cerridwen]

9. So, a sitting president can murder someone on national TV

and if the senate doesn't care to convict him/her...they get away with it until the end of their time in office?

Yes, I know, an extreme example.

[Bjorn Against]

10. Sadly If I am not mistaken that is indeed the case

Maybe a lawyer could argue otherwise, but my understanding is that the President is immune from prosecution while he is in office no matter how serious the offense.

[Cerridwen]

11. So in our democratic republic we do in fact have

laws which represent the divine right of kings? And how is it that "all men are created equal"? Gee, I wonder how much more "common knowledge" about the U.S. "democracy" is in fact, myth?

Things that make me go hmmmmmmmmm.

[flyingfysh]

12. remember what happened during the Nixon era

So much evidence was built up against Nixon that the Republicans had no choice but to tell him to go.

Now: let's do the same to Bush: Start the investigations!

[Jodin]

14. We'll get 2/3rds

2/3rds vote in the Senate to Impeach will happen once the evidence gets aired on CSPAN during the trial.

http://impeachforpeace.org/evidence/

All we need is for a few Republican Congress members to realize that tying their political future to Bush reduces their chances of getting elected. Remember, one way or another, Bush is gone by 2009— but members of Congress may retain their offices beyond that date. Bush's poll numbers are extremely low, and most Americans support impeachment. This is a bipartisan movement. This means that if we make the pressure unbearable for Members of Congress, they'll turn on him to keep their own seats (like they did with Nixon). It's already starting to happen.

And even if we only impeach, and the Senate fails to do their duty and remove him from office. It will only implicate the Senators who fail to do their sworn Constitutional duty.

[newyawker99]

16. Hi Jodin!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast: