Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Will you vote for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic Primary, if she runs?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:36 AM
Original message
Poll question: Will you vote for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic Primary, if she runs?
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 12:01 PM by John Q. Citizen
The mid terms are over and the 08 campaign has begun. Though Senator Clinton is so far undeclared, many people expect that Hillary Clinton will run for the Democratic nomination for President.


Please also post your reason(s) for your vote on this poll. No need to post your gender unless you want to, many DUer are "undeclared" in their profiles and I respect your privacy.

However this poll goes, or whatever your personal preferences, please let's treat each other with respect.

And away we go.....


I voted NO, I won't vote for Hillary Clinton if she runs in the Dem Primary.

Reasons:
1. I don't think she can win the general election. She would galvanize the opposition, IMHO she doesn't inspire many rank and file Democrats or independents, and because I'm not sure if a majority of women in America are ready to vote for a woman for President. (I know this reason may inspire hate mail. I base it on extensive polling/focus groups that is admittedly a couple of decades old, but the data then suggested more men would be willing to vote for a generic "woman for Prez" than women would be. Weird, I know, and as a man, I'd be more than willing to vote for a "generic" woman for President, and I know lots of women who would be willing to vote for a woman for President, but that's what the data said then. I haven't seen any newer hard data on this. Anybody got any links to some? I suspect it may be changing or have changed, but I don't know this based on hard data.)

2. I don't agree with many of her Senate Votes (such as the war, flag burning, and her pro-corporate votes) and many of her statements seem too calculated to win over the center right, at the expense of the Dem base. I think triangulation has a big political price in terms of how people perceive the values of the triangulator. I prefer the direct principled approach, ala Wellstone.

3. I'm opposed to Presidential family dynasties. Just been there and done that.







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Boston Critic Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. I want a Democrat who can win
I'm not convinced she can win the general election.

Should she get the nomination, though, I will vote for her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vorta Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Can you imagine the reaction in freeperville if she won? eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
62. They're among the biggest boosters of her candidacy
The GOP is weak and divided right now, its members so frustrated that their contributions are down. A Hillary candidacy is one of the few things that would save the Republicans-- their contributions and funding war chest would shoot through the roof.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Same here. If Gore or Clark is on the ticket
they get my pick. I really don't think she can win the general for obvious reasons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Boston Critic Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. I thought Bill was great
And I'd love to see Al Gore enter the race. And I wouldn't mind a President Gore appointing Hillary to the Supreme Court.

I'm just not convinced she can win a national election, and we *desperately* need a Democrat to win in 2008.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vorta Donating Member (704 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
67. Either way, the party focus should be on choosing a winner and someone who can survive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zensea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'll vote no, but please spell her name correctly.
Who is this Hillery Clinton?
I won't vote for her in the primary or for Hillary either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Doh! Thank you, It was unintentional and I have corrected my error. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
W.E.B. Du Bois Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Bravo to you for starting this thread
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 11:41 AM by W.E.B. Du Bois
I also spoke out against Hillary on DU and my thread was closed with the slander that I was "campaigning" against Hillary. I simply recognize that Hillary is the wet dream for the Republican Party and a nightmare for the Democrats. There's no need to follow Hillary with some herd mentality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. I started this poll solely to find out what people are thinking. I am not
anti- Hillary any more than I'm anti Kerry. I like Kerry, and I like his votes better than most Senators, but I don't think he would be the best selection this time around either
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Kick for a larger sampling!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Insufficient information
Who's she ruuning against: Gore, Clark, Edwards, Kerry ... ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. That would put you in the undecided catagory perhaps?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. Poll: who the f'ck cares? I have climate change to work on now... eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Inquiring minds want to know? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
solara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. I don't think she can win the Presidency
I think we need to have a candidate who has a real chance to win in '08

Hillary should lead the Senate, it would be a more powerful position for her now anyway. Let America see how she can lead.. maybe then she would be in a stronger position to run in '12

And, I agree with you about dynasty
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. No to Hillary
Disagree with her positions on the war and flag burning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
90. Agreed. How often do we have to keep taking the same poll? "NO" to Hillary...NO.
Not ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. Hillary will kick ass...she may not win but she will kick ass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I think you may be correct. She may kick some ass. Time will tell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
63. She'll kick the asses of Progressive Democrats
as she's done with her unflagging support for the Iraq War, saber-rattling against Iran, pro-corporate bankruptcy laws, anti-flag burning initiatives and other anti-progressive favorites. She's trying to reach the wrong audience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Only on Grand Theft Auto or Bill's. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
77. Never the less, she is good for President...far better than whot Bush has shown us
I will donate and help her if she runs...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. Hell no, and it has nothing to do with the fact that she owns a vagina.
She is, IMO, reprehensible and utterly unacceptable as a Candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. I like Hillary for many reasons and I don't like her for other reasons,
None of which has anything to do with her gender.

Thanks for responding and sharing your views.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
18. I have said before that I will vote third party
if she gets the nomination and I have not changed my mind nor will I ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I'm not sure I'm where you are on that, but I certainly respect your viewpoint.
We all have to do what we have to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
41. So why don't you go post on the Green Underground then?
What's the point if you're not going to support the Democratic nominee?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. I can say this: If the Dems ran Zell Miller, and the Repos ran Chaffe, I'd vote
for Chaffe. No question.

Of course, that scenario ain't going to happen, but if it did, I'd vote the candidate over the party label. Does that mean I have to go post over at freeper land? cause I don't think I'd last long there. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. does it realy matter who I vote for in Nebraska?
I might as well say something with my vote and protest Hillary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #41
94. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
50. same here
in a hillary/mccain race, it's arguable that hillary is more rightwing

i'd write nader in, even if he's not running if that's choice i have in nov. 08
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. It's arguable that Hillary is more rightwing than McCain? Dear lord.
Please, do yourself and everyone else a favor and try and know anything at all about which you speak. Even a little teeny tiny iddy bitty bit.

Look at Hillary's voting record. Then look at McCain's voting record.

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=WNY99268
http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=S0061103

Why would you post such nonsense here? Are you trying to influence other people to dislike Hillary but you're too lazy to bother to use facts to do so? Why would you knowingly post information that you KNOW you didn't research??

I think that's just wrong and unacceptable. I think we should have higher standards for posting information about Democrats. Truth and a speck or two of accuracy ought to be one of the standards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. That's preposterous. Hillary is in the top 10% of progressively voting Senators
Last I knew this was the Democratic Underground, not the Innuendo Rumor Mill, although every day it's getting a little closer to that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. The problem with this sort of statement
is that on the most important, red-alert issues, Hillary has been anything but progressive. She's been one of the biggest boosters, Democrat or Republican, for the Iraq War, plus she's been a big supporter of pro-corporate legislation on things like bankruptcy and outsourcing, which are devastating to the middle class. This is why such an incredibly large number of Democrats will not vote for her under any circumstances whatsoever-- on the big issues, she's definitely not been Progressive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. Please back up your accusations.
How has she been the biggest booster out of all Democrats and Republicans for the Iraq War.

What outsourcing legislation did she vote for?

What bankruptcy legislation are you referring to? Hillary was not present for the vote when the bankruptcy legislation passed. She was in the hospital with her husband who was having major surgery.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
78. What a load
I'd love to see you back that nonsense up with something more than an over opinionated brain fart.

As a Senator, she ranks on the top of the list when voting progressively on ALL the issues, not just YOUR issues.

This is why such an incredibly large number of Democrats will not vote for her under any circumstances whatsoever


HAHAHAHAHA! The only Democrats who won't vote for her under ANY circumstances are the far left whiners on this forum who have nothing better to do than complain about everything under the sun Clinton, without ever lifting a finger to do anything positive away from their computers. I don't mean to burst your bubble, but those people comprise about .0000000001% of all Democrats in the REAL world, if that. You see, you're negligible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #78
85. "Opinionated brain fart" that's funny, may I use it?
He's been posting this nonsense all over the board!

He advocates voting 3rd party over Hillary.....something is not right with this picture.....there's an agenda somewhere.......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #85
98. damn right
Glad you enjoyed it.....

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:02 PM
Original message
I think Hillary is to the left of McCain
and it's not really very close. Someone like Chafee, though, is probably to the left of Hillary and a few other R's would qualify also - not that the R's would nominate some like Chafee but I can dream.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FDR33 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
79. thanks for supporting Republicans
Your view is a perfect example why Democrats lose so often.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rep the dems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. I said that it depends, but unless there are very very few
candidates in the field I see very little chance of voting for her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. Depends on who the other candidates are...
I just hope its not an 'Anybody But so&so campaign' -- I want someone to get me FIRED up in 2008!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. Hillary having sold out will have a hugh amt of money that will finance a Dem defeat in 2008
With all her money, connections, name recognition, and Bill she will not go away quietly and will be the divisive factor that sinks out presidential aspirations in 2008. She will lead a scorched earth campaign to win the nomination and will destroy our party's hopes to win the White House for the next eight years. Hillary will be the worse thing to happen to the Democratic Party in 2008.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. A "hugh" amount of money.
I hope you're joking... I mean, about the spelling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
86. Another "Opinionated Brain Fart!" Hugh=Huge LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yes I will vote for her.
I want a woman president next time. I am tired of waiting. And, unlike many people here, I believe she is the woman who can win it.

BTW, crap about some focus group from 20 years ago is just that--crap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. When that data was current, many people said the same thing then as you say
are saying now.

The data was presented in a discussion about gender politics. The persons position who was presenting the data was that it's an uphill battle to form a political movement around gender. He made the point that the politics of a 25 year old woman living on the West Coast and the politics of a 68 year old woman living in Kansas aren't particularly dependent on gender as much as on other factors having nothing to do with gender.

At the time gender politics was very much in peoples minds, and I assumed, as did many, that it was a growing political force. However, I've reconsidered my assumptions on this. For one thing, women comprise a majority of the electorate. If women based their political choices primarily on gender, we might have had a woman president long ago.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe more women than men (nationwide)would support a "generic" woman for President over a "generic" man
for President? I'm not so sure a majority of women would.

The data I'm referring to came from Virginia Slims Tobacco company who did extensive research using many focus groups and other research tools to determine how to best sell their poison to women. The data wasn't published but was used in their marketing efforts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
83. I;m not disputing the facts as you presented. But a study that is 25 years
old does not reflect the public today. I was just starting elementary school when that study was done. It is crap to say a woman can't get elected because some study that is a generation old says so. BTW, we just re-elected our woman Gov in KS (and she is our second woman Gov).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
66. Most people really don't care about her gender one way or another
They do care about her policies and her stands, which are totally unacceptable for a man or a woman in power. This is the reason for the strong opposition to her even among Democrats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
26. Where is the choice that says, "Fuck, NO!!"
Good God...what a disaster that would be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Well, I was trying to keep the bashing aspect of politics at least a
little at bay. :)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NJ Democrats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
30. No I won't vote for her in the primaries
I would most likely vote for her in the general, usless Bloomberg runs, then i might consider him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
munkie Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
31. So Much Koolaide,So Little Time
There is a very strong contingent of anti-Hillary posters on DU. Funny thing is theres only slightly more on FR.
I for one will proudly vote for Mrs.Clinton should she run in the primary. Yes she comes with baggage, who doesn't.
The People of New York aren't dummies. They know a good thing when they see it and posters on DU should think about that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. We all have our opinions, but characterizing those who don't agree with
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 02:25 PM by John Q. Citizen
you as "Anti-Hillary" would be much the same as characterizing you as Anti-Kerry, Anti-Gore, Anti-Clark, etc.

Which isn't somewhere I'd go, personally.

Most of us will vote for who we prefer in the primary, not against who we don't prefer.

Is that a fair statement?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
68. Munkie, New Yorkers also elected Alphonse D'Amato on multiple occasions
and he wasn't exactly blue ribbon material, was he? The point is, the People of New York aren't dummies, but they aren't geniuses, either-- they're fallible human beings voting in elections with a particular inclination, in this case very liberal.

The truth is, New York is probably the most liberal state in the nation, completely different from the rest of the country, and just about any Democrat with financial support would win Senator/governor in New York these days. Eliot Spitzer won the governorship by an even bigger margin than Hillary did, despite the fact that she had much more money and an opponent who got even less financial support for the GOP! The performance of just about any Democratic candidate is just about useless as an indicator for their competitiveness in a national election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. I won't vote for her in the primaries, but it might not matter
They were decided by the time it got to NY last time. Could happen again. I voted for her for Senator without hesitation. I don't think it's an absolute certainty she couldn't win, only because she's got a hell of a machine going including some very good strategists and she's a very smart woman. However, my position on the primaries is that I don't favor northeasterners and I'd prefer to leave popular and powerful Senators where they are for now. They have a lot of work to do. The northeast is deep blue right now and needs no pandering. It's also less inclined to feel a strong regional identity. I don't think we think of ourselves as northeasterners nearly as much as southerners identify with the south, midwesterners with the heartland or westerners with their own regions. I don't think a southern accent or midwestern twang will turn off a single voter in the NE if the candidate is right on the issues, but I think the term "Senator from NY" will lose a few potential electoral votes as would "New England Liberal". I don't think we should underestimate that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
34. Well, this poll is a resounding "no confidence" in HRC, isn't it?
(Female, voting "no," here)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Yes, it refects DU, but not even close to reflecting mainstream Democrats,
who currently pick Hillary overwhelmingly as their number one choice for Democratic nominee, according to all the big polls.

Same thing with my first choice, General Clark. Here on DU his only competition is Al Gore, who isn't even running, but among mainstream American Democrats he doesn't do as well as I'd like him to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Has general clark declared yet? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Actually, I don't think so, but I'm not sure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jen4clark Donating Member (812 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. Hi John Q!! Answer is no
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 06:32 PM by jen4clark
General Clark said he would decide in the next 2 months if he'll run. He says "I haven't said I won't."

Congrats on your new Senator! :D

Oh, as for your poll -- I'm a female and no I would not vote for HC in the primary. I have a feeling Senator Clinton is smart enough to know she would not win the general, AND why the hell would she put herself through the hell she knows they'll put her through if she does run?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. Hey Jen, fancy meeting you here!.
Quite the election, eh?

It was a lot of hard work, but I think we got a pretty good guy in. He even knows what the phrase "Single payer health insurence" means, and he ran on repealing the Patriot act.

How's everything with you and yours?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jen4clark Donating Member (812 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. LOL!! I knew we'd run into each other
someday! :D

Z and I are well! We're living with my dad! He's loving having us here but unfortunately there's no room in this house for my stuff so it's still in storage! I went and got my winter clothes and a few things that fit in the room, but mostly it's like being back in the '70's! LOL!!

Made some new friends from the Dem group here and had a great time campaigning for Jill Derby, Dina Titus and Jack Carter -- none of whom won... BUT we did get a Dem Sec of State!! (Ross Miller), and a Dem Atty General, a wonderful woman Catherine Cortez Masto!!

I supported your new Senator through WesPAC, along with all the other WesPAC endorsed candiates! The election there was a nail biter though, wasn't it!!

Hope you and the family are well and ready for winter!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. People pick Hillary because they've heard of her. It's name recognition.

Most people don't know much about politics -- think of the polls that show how many people can't name their governor, senators or rep, or even the prez or veep.

If the average voters do learn anything about the candidates before they vote, they learn during the campaign, usually after the primaries. But even among average voters, Hillary has high negatives now and I think those people will continue to loathe her -- and we're not talking about DUers here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. "name recognition", the excuse de jour on DU as to why she gets picked
Name recognition can also work negatively as much as it can work positively.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
71. Yes, and it *is* working negatively for Hillary
which is why her negatives are already among the highest of any potential candidate for 2008, even before the Republican smear machine has kicked into gear. In the mainstream Democrat polls, there's overall little knowledge one way or the other about potential 2008 candidates, and Hillary Rodham Clinton is about the only one they know. However, she has already aroused bitter opposition among Progressives who are among the most loyal of the Democrats, who would not vote for her under any circumstances.

This is an utterly awful harbinger if she were to actually choose to run for the 2008 election. Barack Obama for example, or John Edwards would be much better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #71
81. Yeah, real negative. That's why she's the front running favorite among Dems
currently.

I agree Obama would probably have a better chance of winning in a general election than Hillary. For that matter, I think Obama would have a better chance of winning than ANY of our other candidates as things stand now.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #49
87. Now don't start with that "everyone who supports Hillary
is a fool and not smart" thing...we've already beat that poor horse.....be nice......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
70. But the problem with the "mainstream" Democrat polls is that they're
far too captive to the name recognition factor at this point. Most Democrats really don't know much about the other candidates, whereas Hillary was constantly in the public eye for 8 years as the First Lady and then as a Senator-- people simply know her better.

The problem is, the name recognition advantage is wiped out early in the primaries, so it's an extremely poor predictor of a candidate's potential down the road. Thus when the primaries actually take place and all is said and done, if anything the DU inclinations early on are much closer to the actual pick than the early mainstream polls, since the DU polls are more reflective of intrinsic concerns among primary voters that come out during the primaries, when name recognition itself becomes less of a factor.

Remember, Joe Lieberman dominated the mainstream polls back in 2004, but when the primaries were decided, he was near the bottom-- just as he had been in the DU polls themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jpwhite Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
36. Gore, Clark, Obama, or Edwards
I like Hilary but I don't think she can win the general election. We need someone like Al Gore, Wesley Clark, Barack Obama, or John Edwards. Al Gore is a great champion for the environment. Wesley Clark has a ton of military experience. Barack Obama is an incredible speaker and may someday be the first african-american president. John Edwards is a great trial lawyer and he fights for the rights of average people. Any of these four would win the white house.

James
jpwhite@okstatealumni.org

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AJH032 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
37. Please elaborate
I'm curious which "pro-corporate" votes you're referring to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. I've been looking but Operation Vote Smart is overwhelmed at the
present and I can't get her voting record there at present.

The Bankruptcy bill comes to mind.

I'm not looking for purity in my candidates, and I realize people I like and support will sometimes vote contrary to my wishes.

I'm glad Hillary is in the Senate.

I was pissed off at her for her ingenuos remarks about Kerry's non-issue flap about education. I thought it was the wrong time to publically take up Repo talking points. That doesn't address your question, but it goes to some degree to my overall perception of Sen. Clinton.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AJH032 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. However
Hillary did not vote for the Bankruptcy Bill (the one her husband actually vetoed).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. Thanks for clearing up 1 of the 10,000 myths about HRC that run rampant on DU
Some of the other crap that people spew about her here is worse than any of the nonsense that the RW makes up about her, and it's usually done with intentions of knocking her down in order to build up Poster X's favorite candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #54
73. it's been dispelled 1,000,000 times before
but resurfaces like a bad case of gastric reflux.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
38. I like Senator Clinton, but I believe that she is too polarizing a
candidate to be able to win.

A) Conservatives, including some Democrats and Independents, often tend to be misogynists, and will not vote for a woman under most circumstances.

B) Senator Clinton has been continually demonized by RW media since before her husband was elected Prez. This constant demonization has caused the more gullible or feeble-minded among us to dislike her for no valid reason.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
39. No, I don't think she's the right choice for 08
I believe that there are many on the right who are hoping beyond all hope that we do nominate her, since then their job will be much easier if we do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
48. Your reasons for opposing Hillary are much the same as mine.

We loved Bill because he was such a relief after eight years of Ronnie and four of G.H.W., and because he is such a charismatic speaker. But he approved NAFTA (which G.H.W. wouldn't do), maintained sanctions against Iraq, knowing that they were harming the Iraqi people, not Saddam, continued bombing Iraq, forced poor Americans off welfare into the workforce -- as has been said by others, he was a moderate Republican president. I haven't read anything about what happened to all the people forced off welfare but can't imagine all of them kept their jobs or that they and their children were better off. The minimum wage has been the same for, what, 15 years? People earning more than minimum wage need two incomes per family so I wonder about all those single mothers and their kids. How did they pay for daycare? Did they get jobs with health insurance? Sure it'd good for people's self-esteem to earn their own living but I wonder what kind of living they've all earned

And Hillary already talks a more right wing game than Bill ever did. She still support's Bush's war!

We need a real two party system again, and Hillary would be in the GOP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AJH032 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. No
If the lines were drawn such that Hillary would be in the GOP, then I guarantee you the Democratic party would be so tiny that its political influence would be almost nothing. If you look at Hillary's ratings from liberal websites, she actually scores very high in all of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. This is true. I think she's a good Senator and I'm glad she's in our party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
53. Is this predictable or what?? Maybe a good poll would be
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 06:34 PM by laugle
to ask; "would you vote for Hillary if she becomes the nominee?"

I think with a very good running mate--she would have a good chance of winning.

The Clinton's are master's at raising money and winning elections and aferall, that's what we need most.

But 2 years is a long time in politics and anything could happen but I wouldn't underestimate her.......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
59. Many Dems I know wouldn't even vote for her in the General Election
That's what I find especially scary here. It's not just that Hillary's bitterly opposed in the Democratic primaries-- it's that, even if she were to be nominated, millions of loyal Democrats are so angry that they won't vote for her either.

They've done polls right in the aftermath of the recent elections-- when national support for Democrats and dislike of Republicans is the most impressive it's been in perhaps a decade, and with Hillary having such high name recognition relative to almost any other Democrat-- and Hillary Clinton still loses to Giuliani and McCain. This is at a time when we enjoy our highest popular support, a moment that of course will be fleeting. To make matters worse, Hillary's negatives are more than twice those of Giuliani and McCain.

Again, it's not just that she's polarizing to the country in general, to Independents and Republicans. Hillary's even polarizing to other Democrats, so much so that millions will not vote for her at all with many even inclining toward Third Parties. Her stances on Iraq, Iran and that egregious pro-corporate sop, the bankruptcy "reform" bill, have angered far too many grass-roots Democrats. We're courting disaster with her as a frontrunner-- Barack Obama, John Edwards, Wesley Clark maybe would be much better candidates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. You need to get out more often
and away from the computer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
69. Tweety touted her for Senate Leader on his show 11-12-06
and was quite complimentary of her skills in that regard. Perhaps that makes more sense than her running for president in 2008.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. I agree. I think she'd be a good fit for that position.
I'd support Hillary if she was elected in the primaries. But I can't say if I would vote for her in the primaries or not unless I know who she's running against. I would vote for Obama as my first choice if he were running.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. *
Agreed. I LUV Gore and Clark, but I'm beginning to think a clean slate in politics and a run by a fresh, exciting candidate like Obama might really put the ooompff back in politics again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #75
88. Hey AK---how much of this do you think
is just pure "SEXISM?"

10,20,30 percent? I wonder........

I certainly think it's in the equasion...what say you??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #88
92. It's definitely a white good 'ol boys' club
Edited on Mon Nov-13-06 04:16 AM by AtomicKitten


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tyedyeto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
76. She's a good Senator but I don't think she could win the Presidency
I want someone who has that chance. Not sure who is as of yet. I'll wait until candidate have actually declared their intent to run before I make any decisions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
80. Male, and no.
I utterly refuse to support anyone who voted for the Iraq War, pure and simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
82. No, not because I don't
like her. If she wins the primaries which she very well may I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell she could ever get elected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
84. Depends on what she proposes and who else runs
I will take Clinton over Casey or Harold Ford Jr. anytime.

Mostly, depends on what her platform is. Why she thinks she should be the President, why she thinks she would do a better job than the other candidates.

Isn't this the way we should elect our representatives?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
89. America wants effective, competent government. The Clintons will deliver.
Edited on Mon Nov-13-06 02:12 AM by oasis
As for "family dynasties", I've often found experience to be a plus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. Bill really delivered with the Trade Bills.
I like him but did not like many of his policies. I felt he sold out and was very disapointed. But regardless of his actions,some people seem to feel he is a faultless hero. Why is that ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #93
99. "Some people seem to feel he (Clinton) is a faultless hero". I haven't
been in the presence of a single person who has stated that. Presidents, politicians,professors, preachers and plumbers all have their faults.

Which candidate for 2008 will deliver flawless government?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
91. What Would Wellstone Do?
I like the direct principled approach too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
95. Not in the primary, but in the general
I felt the same way about Kerry, that he was "the chosen one" several months before anyone ever voted, and I wasn't particularly impressed by his recent record. Pre-2000, yes, but post-2000, he did a lot of stuff to piss me off.

The same rings true with Hillary, whereas Gore's been the opposite - post-2000, he's become a fire-breathing populist liberal with some charisma, whereas pre-2000 (and even in early 2000, though he got better) he didn't light the world on fire for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
96. I wouldn't vote for her simply because she's a woman
even though I am a woman. If I could pick a woman for president, I'd pick my wonderful senator, Barbara Boxer.

I won't vote for Hillary in the primary, but if she ends up the candidate, I'll fight like hell for her. She may not look so hot to me compared to Boxer, but she looks great when standing next to a right-winger.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mak3cats Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
97. Hillary is my senator...
...and that's where I'd like to keep her. Not only do I think that this country is not ready to elect a female or a minority, but if the Dems were to put up a female candidate there are several others who have "paid their dues" a lot longer than Hillary has.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
100. Female. Decided. Depends on who else runs.
If Clark runs, I'm there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fadedrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
101. No vote for Hillary
I voted NO, but ABSOLUTELY NO would be more accurate.

I'd like to see Bill appointed as Secretary of State (he is
already unofficially)but not Hillary.  I can't warm up to her
for some reason.  She never votes the way I like.

I'm represented by Senator Carl Levin (MI)- who almost ALWAYS
votes my way. I like him better than anyone in the Senate.

The country has had enough of the Bush-Clinton feuds.  Can't
we get a fresh start with some midwestern governor?  The fresh
start would commence, naturally, after the hearings and
investigations and the guilty are jailed. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
102. Not just no but Hell No!
I don't like her and I think she'd be destroyed in the general.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kelly Rupert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
103. No, and don't put your explanation above the vote.
It looks push-polly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. That's good advice. I'll remember that next time I do a poll. thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
105. Definitely not in the primaries, but maybe in the general election
but she'll have some convincing to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
106. Nope
There are stronger candidates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
107. NO
she doesn't have a chance in hell of wining the General Election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC