DLC says "Unite!.... Behind us!"

[MGKrebs]

Pelosi is now the Speaker of the House, and the DLC, the quintessential "can't we all get along" centrists, choose to oppose her choice for Majority Leader.


DLC message from 11/10:

In our opinion, Democrats must avoid the temptation to follow up the electoral repudiation of the Bush-Rove polarization strategy with their own version of the same thing.

...so they divide by challenging the new Speaker...

DLC message from 11/13:

That's why House Democrats should elect Steny Hoyer as majority leader

DLC message from 11/10:

independent and moderate voters ... want to know what each political party is fighting for, not just fighting against.

... Right! That's probably why Pelosi isn't in the DLC!

That's why we should all be wary of intra-party arguments that Democrats did well simply by "fighting" or maximizing partisan differentiation from Republicans, or that they can paste together a majority by insisting on ideological unity and ignoring parts of the country or parts of the party -- e.g., "red states" -- that call for a more diverse and inclusive message.

"Ideological unity"? You're kidding, right? YOU are the ones calling for ideological unity! Dean is the one with the 50 state strategy! You guys are the ones trying to throw him out!!!

A party that doesn't have room for both Bernie Sanders and Joe Lieberman probably doesn't have room for a majority of the American people.

Agreed! So you accept Bernie Sanders' ideology but not Pelosi's?

[xchrom]

1. the dlc can kiss my ass.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcane1]

27. is this an example of the "dems fighting dems"

that you keep going on about? :eyes:

[TankLV]

39. So we should care about someone who JUST JOINED UP to berate one of our best posters?

You lost honey?

Yeah - I'll believe you - NOT!

[Cha]

43. We don't.

[JetCityLiberal]

2. I'll keep uniting behind Howard Dean and Pelosi

you can have Zell, he is a perfect dlcer.

[Zhade]

5. Considering it was Dean's 50-state strategy that won the day...

...and not DLC hand-picking cadidates, a wise move!

THANK YOU DR. DEAN! Your plan worked!

[MannyGoldstein]

6. But If Ford Had Run The DNC...

We'd have won 52 states!!! Hell, even Mehlmen would have won 51 if he'd run the DNC.

Or don't you believe Clinton-appendage Carville?

[Cha]

45. That's a good one..

"clinton-appendage carville".

Oh yeah, tryin' to make a comeback only this time they have to deal with Howard Dean and the GN.. grassy netroots.

[hijinx87]

9. Rahm Emmanuel is getting all the credit in the MSM

the love fest is getting disgusting.

[wyldwolf]

30. except he didn't.. oh, and by the way, Zhade...

Got proof of those claims on Clinton and the DLC yet?

Anyway, here are those who somehow missed Howard Dean winning the day, from Nancy Pelosi and Charley Rangel, from the Nation to the Weekly Standard... and various points in between:

As the Democrats took control of the House on Tuesday, the expected new House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, told a Democratic gathering in Washington, "Let's hear it for Rahm Emanuel. He did a great job masterminding our strategy, which is bearing fruit tonight."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0611080085nov08,1,2440897.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

"Rahm Emanuel is a very ambitious person," Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) said yesterday, glowing in his own reelection and the possibility that he will be named chairman of the Ways and Means Committee. "There's no question that with the election, he's picked up a lot of political clout..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/08/AR2006110802239.html


"... The architects of Democratic victory, Rep. Rahm Emanuel and Sen. Chuck Schumer..."

Michael Scherer,

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/11/08/pelosi/index_np.html

Credit in particular goes to Rahm Emanuel and Chuck Schumer, who led the House and Senate efforts to pick candidates...

http://online.wsj.com/google_login.html?url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB116303391191517999.html%3Fmod%3Dgooglenews_wsj

But you have to give Rahm Emanuel, the House Democratic campaign chief, credit for recruiting an impressive group of candidates, including a few non-liberals like Brad Ellsworth in Indiana and Heath Shuler in North Carolina. (From the Conservative Weekly Standard)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/08/opinion/main2162362.shtml

Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, and Rahm Emanuel say they are happy to share credit for the Democrats' electoral success, but not everyone in the party is feeling as generous. Progressive bloggers, who often promote and criticize the Democratic Party with equal vigor, want their props. (From the liberal The Nation)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/08/opinion/main2162618.shtml

"...Congressman Rahm Emanuel, whose staff will get most of the credit for a big victory."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=783725&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1

Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.), the architect of the Democratic takeover of the House, will take the No. 4 spot in the leadership, chairman of the House Democratic Caucus.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/printedition/2006/11/13/natleaders1113a.html

Rahm Emanuel, the mastermind behind the Democratic victory and the party's disciplinarian...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448021,00.html

And Democratic gains included the addition of many conservative Democrats, brilliantly recruited by Rep. Rahm Emanuel with classic Clintonian triangulation.

http://www.baxterbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061113/OPINION01/611130311/1014/OPINION

[BanzaiBonnie]

3. I heard some good reasons for Hoyer

But now that I know he's the choice the DLC is pushing --- makes me say NO WAY.

Get the DLC off our backs. We know who they work for --- corporate interests.

[AlamoDemoc]

4. The DLC lost November 7, of 2006.....they should just Go Away

[Writer]

8. Is the Blue Dog Coalition the same as the DLC?

Because they won BIG on November 7th.

[wyldwolf]

29. and picked up 15 of the 29 House seats in the process. Go figure!

[SOS]

40. The DLC web site coverage of the 2006 election

makes no mention of their 15 winners.
Who are they?

[wyldwolf]

41. Looks as if the number may climb to 19!

Among the incoming Democrats, there will be at least 20 moderates: 15 are expected to become members of the pro-business New Democrat Coalition, nine will likely join the anti-deficit Blue Dog Coalition — and four will probably join both groups.

http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2006/11/14/cq_1938.html

[Writer]

7. Wait a minute... I think we're missing something here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the DLC is supporting Steny Hoyer as MAJORITY LEADER. That is NOT the same position - SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE - slated for Nancy Pelosi. Are you sure you're reading this correctly?

You didn't provide a link so there's no way to double-check.

[hijinx87]

10. hoyer is running against murtha for majority leader.

that is what the OP says.

[Doremus]

11. Majority Leader. Pelosi wants Murtha. The DLC wants Hoyer. n/t

[MGKrebs]

13. These are emails, no link.

I would check their site to see if they have a notice up, but their site seems to be down at the moment.

But as others have pointed out, Speaker Pelosi has already indicated her support for Murtha as Majority Leader. A couple of days later, the DLC sends out the message that they prefer Hoyer, thereby igniting- in my view- an uneccessary intra-party battle at a delicate time, while at the same time calling for unity.

I've said it before and I still believe it: The "centrists" try to figure out where the "center" is and head for that. The ideologues try to convince "the center" (and everyone else) that their ideas are worthy. Centrism is just P.R., it is only concerned with winning elections, and that path ultimately leads to Shimkus type behavior.

The "center" moves because of the relative success of the ideologues on either side to sell their philosophy. Centrism just supports whatever side is winning at the moment...but not all the way, just enough to capitalize on the success without having to buy in to the philosophy.

In a way we may need each other. The ideologues blaze the trail and the centrists follow along. But the DLC insists on leading, and leading towards a moving target can take you on some unfortunate detours.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. Somebody please tell Al From and Bruce Reed that ther 15 minutes are up

Thank you.

[Greeby]

14. I'm just sick of the DLC

They seem to purposefully not want their party to win. Sometimes I wonder whose side they're on

[LeftishBrit]

15. Am I correct in my guess that the only difference between your DLC and our New Labour

is that New Labour were (at least for a while) good at winning elections for their party?

[MGKrebs]

20. Not sure about New Labour, but the DLC were good at winning elections too.

In fact, that is their guiding principle. No "liberal", no "conservative", but a "third way", which amounts to trying to determine where the most votes are this year and positioning the candidates there.

Problem is, you are letting someone else define the debate. If a very effective fascist were to alter the debate, "centrists" would have to go along.

[gratuitous]

16. I'll get behind the DLC

The better to kick their ass. Give it up guys; you're not the ones in power.

[paulk]

17. so... how do you square Murtha's conservative voting record

with Hoyer's much more liberal one in this newest anti - DLC/anti - centrist rant?

[MGKrebs]

19. If Steny is DLC he can't also be "liberal".

That is their whole gig. They are the "third way", which looks a lot like "goes with the prevailing wind" to me.
If Steny looks more liberal today, that does not mean he will still be that tomorrow. He will be whatever he thinks he has to be to be in "the center". Which changes.

In my opinion, we're not supposed to be electing robots who will always just do the will of whatever the majority feels today. If that were the case, we might as well let Rasmussen run the country and save ourselves a lot of trouble. We are supposed to be electing leaders who articulate various philosophies that give us a distinct choice on the direction we want to head. Sometimes these leaders will oppose the prevailing opinion. This may be due to any number of reasons: Inaccurate publicity, cynical but effective efforts by others, entrenched prejudices, whatever. In other words, just because the freaks have convinced most Americans that Mexico has emptied her prisons and Mexicans are here illegally to rape our women and vote multiple times doesn't make it so. Somebody has to stand up and face public opinion when it goes astray. If I am not mistaken, this is the opposite of what the DLC strives to be.

There is a role for the DLC, but it is not "leadership".

[paulk]

21. he has a 95% lifetime ADA rating

based on his voting record. That's higher than Dennis Kucinich.


You need to look past the labels.

[MGKrebs]

24. Steny chose the label.

If he is so dedicated to principle, then he should ditch the DLC.

edit: Does the DLC not identify their members anymore? I can't find a list of who identifies themselves as DLC on their site. Steny doesn't show up anywhere that I can find (other than the endorsement).

[paulk]

33. maybe he's not a member of the DLC

[Odin2005]

18. The DLC can go to hell.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. IMO both Hoyer and Murtha are bad choices for Majority Leader

Hoyer has the legislative profile to do the job but he's trying to get into a position to challenge Pelosi for Speaker and I don't want him anywhere near that. Murtha is too socially conservative to get the votes we need.

[flpoljunkie]

23. DLC back up. Here's the link and text of Al From's endorsement of Steny Hoyer.

November 13, 2006

Al From: Hoyer for Majority Leader

Last Tuesday, Democrats won back control of the House in a stunning reversal of the 2004 election. The Democratic victory represented a striking repudiation of a Bush administration and Republican Party that has so often subordinated problem-solving to power seeking, competence to ideology, honesty and integrity to corruption and cronyism, and the politics of national unity to the politics of polarization.

Republicans deliberately abandoned the political center and invited Democrats to occupy it. If you look at the victorious Democratic candidates in "red" and "purple" states and districts, it's clear that they did. And while Democrats benefited from an energized party base, the key to the victory was in the contested center of the electorate, among moderates, independents, middle-class voters, and suburbanites. These voters could represent an expanded Democratic base, and an enduring progressive majority, if they can keep it. The best way to achieve that is for Democrats to use their new power wisely.

That's why House Democrats should elect Steny Hoyer as majority leader. As Democratic Whip, Hoyer was a vital part of the team that produced this victory. His record as Whip has been exemplary. In a year where corruption was cited in exit polls as a critical issue, Hoyer is a leader with integrity who has been out front on reform issues. His background and experience position him, and the Democratic Caucus, exactly where they ought to be if they hope to turn the temporary majority of November 7 into an enduring majority in 2008 and beyond.

Hoyer is being challenged by another good Democrat, John Murtha. On the most important economic, security, social and reform issues facing our nation, Hoyer's views best reflect the broad center of views in our party and our county.

If we want to keep the House, Democrats need to be the party of reform and problem-solving. Steny Hoyer is the kind of majority leader who will help Democrats keep the majority. House Democrats should support him.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=86&subid=84&contentid=254108

[MGKrebs]

25. I can respond to that.

Murtha is not "corrupt" as the citation implies. He is merely taking advantage of a broken system and he is being given a chance to fix it.

This election may have been about corruption for some, but it was overwhelmingly about Iraq for something like 85% of the voters, and they wanted a change from where we are going now. Murtha is the very personification of that change.

Republicans under Rove ALWAYS abandon the middle from a policy standpoint because they know that the middle won't show up unless they are pissed off, paranoid, or broke. The DLC reads this as an invitation to offer milquetoast alternatives that will offend no one, appeal mildly to everyone, and ultimately encourages complacency.

Steny Hoyer as Whip had nothing to do with this election. Hoyer failed to produce a unanimous Dem stand against sanctioned torture for Christ's sake. This might have been the lamest Whip performance in my lifetime, now that I think about it. How many tmes have we watched in amazement as Dems voted for anti-progressive measures, presumably to "protect their seat".

[PassingFair]

28. Here Here!

We need to get leaders in there who
can get dems TO VOTE like DEMS, so
that our MAJORITY means ANYTHING!

Crappy DLC dems have been throwing
enough votes to the other side for
too long. IT MATTERS NOW.

No more voting shit out of committee
and then voting "NO" in the senate vote...

I'm talkin to YOU, LIEBERMAN!

A majority means dirt if we aren't voting
together. And our recent history ain't to
good. You listening, Nelson, Nelson, Landrieu
et. al....?

[Sturmrabe]

32. The problem is, and has always been:

Republicans have always been better at toeing the party line.

By their very nature "liberals" = free thinkers, and as such tend to not coalesce behind one stance uniformly, do many more Democrats would be a centrist or independent voter, when it is MUCH more rare for a Rep to really break the mold and vote for difficult issues because they personally feel they are right.

The problem arises on either side when someone is so far left or right that only their limited constituency isn't put off by them, and you can put Pelosi and Clinton in those catagories...

They are just too polarizing to be effective in a broad sense.

[rinsd]

36. LOL Murtha is perhaps the most consevative Democrat in the House

"We need to get leaders in there who can get dems TO VOTE like DEMS"

When Murtha starts voting like that, you let me know.

[MGKrebs]

44. Are you supporting a choice?

Can we agree that Pelosi is pretty liberal? And you claim that Murtha is very conservative, to which I can agree. Given that Pelosi IS GOING TO BE the Speaker, is this not a fence-mending, one big tent, let's work together kind of gesture? And what does the DLC do? They very publicly oppose the choice of THEIR new leader. Great. Nice move. We can see who is dividing the party I guess.

[rinsd]

35. Do you have ANY data to back this stuff up

"He is merely taking advantage of a broken system and he is being given a chance to fix it."

And here we have the very definition of rationalization. Of course Mutha's howled when there was talk of no more earmarks.

"This election may have been about corruption for some, but it was overwhelmingly about Iraq for something like 85% of the voters, and they wanted a change from where we are going now. Murtha is the very personification of that change."

Where do you get this? The exit polls say corruption #1, Iraq close #2. So the Democrats in an election that did at least partially swing on corruption have 2 guys with questionable records for majority leader and one guy for a leadership poisition that was impeached as a Fed judge for bribery by a Democratic Congress. Does tha6t seem like a good idea to you?

"
How many tmes have we watched in amazement as Dems voted for anti-progressive measures, presumably to "protect their seat". "

Are you aware of Murtha's voting record? How in the world could anyone see his as a chapion for progressive legislation?

[MGKrebs]

42. Here's what I got.

The first comment is true on it's face. He hasn't been arrested, indicted, charged, censured, reprimanded, or punished in any way. His behavior is distasteful, but evidently well within whatever boundaries exist. By being given a leadership position, he is clearly being given the opportunity to have more control- and that includes fixing the system. (The part about the system being broken is an editorial comment by me, but I think is shared by many.)

I heard the 85% number on NPR a couple of mornings ago. Cokie Roberts I think. She was responding to Rove's comments to Time magazine. I'll have to try to find the cite later.

I don't necessarily see him as a champion for progressive legislation, I am simply choosing to back Pelosi's choice rather than the DLC's.

[Totally Committed]

31. The DLC can kiss my sweet petoot.

And then go do the anatomically impossible to themselves.

TC

Edited for potty mouth.

[dpbrown]

34. Bernie Sanders for Majority Leader because the DLC says so!

I mean, they like Socialists, don't they?

[hopein08]

37. The DLC is for Hoyer? I was too but now I say "Murtha for Leader"!!! n/t

[MiniMe]

38. I must not be paying attention, thought it was untie the knots behind us

As in Run as fast as you can! :rofl:

[Jack Rabbit]

46. Oh, yes, let's unite behind the DLC

And kick it in the behind.