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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 01:26 PM
Original message
"I would describe his leadership as Rumsfeldian in its competence."
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 01:32 PM by Pirate Smile
"I would describe his leadership as Rumsfeldian in its competence."

-- James Carville, quoted by the Atlanta Journal Constitution, on DNC Chairman Howard Dean. Carville "likened the Democratic takeover of Congress to the civil war battle at Gettysburg, which the Union army won but failed to pursue the Confederate army when it retreated."

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2006/11/15/bonus_quote_of_the_day.html

This idiot just doesn't know when to STFU.

:grr:

edit to add the article:


Carville Says Dems Should Dump Dean over “Rumsfeldian” Incompetence

By Scott Shepard | Wednesday, November 15, 2006, 12:00 PM

Democratic strategist James Carville says his party should dump Howard Dean as chairman of the Democratic Party because of incompetence.

Carville, during coffee and rolls with political reporters today, said Democrats could have picked up as many as 50 House seats, instead of the nearly 30 they have so far.

The reason they didn’t, he said, is the Democratic National Committee did not spend some $6 million it could have put into so-called “third tier” House races against vulnerable Republicans.
Carville said the other Democratic campaign committees had borrowed to the hilt.

He said he tried to meet with Dean to argue for additional spending for Democrats in the final days of the campaign, but Dean declined and gave no reason why.
Asked by a reporter whether Dean should be dumped, Carville replied, “In a word, do I think? Yes.”

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/washington/washington/entries/2006/11/15/carville_says_d.html

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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. What the hell is that guy doing?
You're right. He needs to STFU.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. His days are so over
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Carville is leading the charge against anti-corruption, open government Democrats
and he has been since Mary Matalin became a War Criminal.

The last thing the Clintons or their hitman Carville want is for the coverup wing of the party to lose control over it.

They need to coverup for Bush2 the way Bill did for Bush1.

That's why they target anyone who doesn't side with them. Dean is in their way.

Democrats, the Truth Still Matters!
By Robert Parry
(First Posted May 11, 2006)

Editor's Note: With the Democratic victories in the House and Senate, there is finally the opportunity to demand answers from the Bush administration about important questions, ranging from Dick Cheney's secret energy policies to George W. Bush's Iraq War deceptions. But the Democrats are sure to be tempted to put the goal of "bipartisanship" ahead of the imperative for truth.

Democrats, being Democrats, always want to put governance, such as enacting legislation and building coalitions, ahead of oversight, which often involves confrontation and hard feelings. Democrats have a difficult time understanding why facts about past events matter when there are problems in the present and challenges in the future.

Given that proclivity, we are re-posting a story from last May that examined why President Bill Clinton and the last Democratic congressional majority (in 1993-94) shied away from a fight over key historical scandals from the Reagan-Bush-I years -- and the high price the Democrats paid for that decision:

My book, Secrecy & Privilege, opens with a scene in spring 1994 when a guest at a White House social event asks Bill Clinton why his administration didn’t pursue unresolved scandals from the Reagan-Bush era, such as the Iraqgate secret support for Saddam Hussein’s government and clandestine arms shipments to Iran.

Clinton responds to the questions from the guest, documentary filmmaker Stuart Sender, by saying, in effect, that those historical questions had to take a back seat to Clinton’s domestic agenda and his desire for greater bipartisanship with the Republicans.

Clinton “didn’t feel that it was a good idea to pursue these investigations because he was going to have to work with these people,” Sender told me in an interview. “He was going to try to work with these guys, compromise, build working relationships.”

Clinton’s relatively low regard for the value of truth and accountability is relevant again today because other centrist Democrats are urging their party to give George W. Bush’s administration a similar pass if the Democrats win one or both houses of Congress.

Reporting about a booklet issued by the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank of the Democratic Leadership Council, the Washington Post wrote, “these centrist Democrats … warned against calls to launch investigations into past administration decisions if Democrats gain control of the House or Senate in the November elections.”

These Democrats also called on the party to reject its “non-interventionist left” wing, which opposed the Iraq War and which wants Bush held accountable for the deceptions that surrounded it.

“Many of us are disturbed by the calls for investigations or even impeachment as the defining vision for our party for what we would do if we get back into office,” said pollster Jeremy Rosner, calling such an approach backward-looking.

Yet, before Democrats endorse the DLC’s don’t-look-back advice, they might want to examine the consequences of Clinton’s decision in 1993-94 to help the Republicans sweep the Reagan-Bush scandals under the rug. Most of what Clinton hoped for – bipartisanship and support for his domestic policies – never materialized.

‘Politicized’ CIA

After winning Election 1992, Clinton also rebuffed appeals from members of the U.S. intelligence community to reverse the Reagan-Bush “politicization” of the CIA’s analytical division by rebuilding the ethos of objective analysis even when it goes against a President’s desires.

Instead, in another accommodating gesture, Clinton gave the CIA director’s job to right-wing Democrat, James Woolsey, who had close ties to the Reagan-Bush administration and especially to its neoconservatives.

One senior Democrat told me Clinton picked Woolsey as a reward to the neocon-leaning editors of the New Republic for backing Clinton in Election 1992.

“I told that the New Republic hadn’t brought them enough votes to win a single precinct,” the senior Democrat said. “But they kept saying that they owed this to the editors of the New Republic.”

During his tenure at the CIA, Woolsey did next to nothing to address the CIA’s “politicization” issue, intelligence analysts said. Woolsey also never gained Clinton’s confidence and – after several CIA scandals – was out of the job by January 1995.

At the time of that White House chat with Stuart Sender, Clinton thought that his see-no-evil approach toward the Reagan-Bush era would give him an edge in fulfilling his campaign promise to “focus like a laser beam” on the economy.

He was taking on other major domestic challenges, too, like cutting the federal deficit and pushing a national health insurance plan developed by First Lady Hillary Clinton.

So for Clinton, learning the truth about controversial deals between the Reagan-Bush crowd and the autocratic governments of Iraq and Iran just wasn’t on the White House radar screen. Clinton also wanted to grant President George H.W. Bush a gracious exit.

“I wanted the country to be more united, not more divided,” Clinton explained in his 2004 memoir, My Life. “President Bush had given decades of service to our country, and I thought we should allow him to retire in peace, leaving the (Iran-Contra) matter between him and his conscience.”

Unexpected Results

Clinton’s generosity to George H.W. Bush and the Republicans, of course, didn’t turn out as he had hoped. Instead of bipartisanship and reciprocity, he was confronted with eight years of unrelenting GOP hostility, attacks on both his programs and his personal reputation.

Later, as tensions grew in the Middle East, the American people and even U.S. policymakers were flying partially blind, denied anything close to the full truth about the history of clandestine relationships between the Reagan-Bush team and hostile nations in the Middle East.

Clinton’s failure to expose that real history also led indirectly to the restoration of Bush Family control of the White House in 2001. Despite George W. Bush’s inexperience as a national leader, he drew support from many Americans who remembered his father’s presidency fondly.

If the full story of George H.W. Bush’s role in secret deals with Iraq and Iran had ever been made public, the Bush Family’s reputation would have been damaged to such a degree that George W. Bush’s candidacy would not have been conceivable.

Not only did Clinton inadvertently clear the way for the Bush restoration, but the Right’s political ascendancy wiped away much of the Clinton legacy, including a balanced federal budget and progress on income inequality. A poorly informed American public also was easily misled on what to do about U.S. relations with Iraq and Iran.

In retrospect, Clinton’s tolerance of Reagan-Bush cover-ups was a lose-lose-lose – the public was denied information it needed to understand dangerous complexities in the Middle East, George W. Bush built his presidential ambitions on the nation’s fuzzy memories of his dad, and Republicans got to enact a conservative agenda.

Clinton’s approach also reflected a lack of appreciation for the importance of truth in a democratic Republic. If the American people are expected to do their part in making sure democracy works, they need to be given at least a chance of being an informed electorate.

Yet, Clinton – and now some pro-Iraq War Democrats – view truth as an expendable trade-off when measured against political tactics or government policies. In reality, accurate information about important events is the lifeblood of democracy.

Though sometimes the truth can hurt, Clinton and the Democrats should understand that covering up the truth can hurt even more. As Clinton’s folly with the Reagan-Bush scandals should have taught, the Democrats may hurt themselves worst of all when helping the Republicans cover up the truth.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com, as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, C

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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Excellent post, blm.... /nt
TC
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. In the future, instead of sending nasty letters to Carville
I believe I'll send them directly to the Clintons. Last week I thought he was just a loose cannon, but it's clear now that that is not the case.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Got a link? Is this Parry piece from Truthout?
Excellent as usual for Robert Parry. Thanks for posting! Carville can bite me. Howard Dean is the best thing that's happened to the DNC in a LONG time, and the results last week PROVE that.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. consortiumnews - Parry reposted Nov 12, and gave permission to repost in full
so we can spread it in its entirety on the internet.

He is like us - doesn't want BushInc to get away and knows damn well that some Democrats will try to make sure BushInc is protected.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Aha! Thanks!
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 08:44 PM by calimary
It's the anal compulsive in me (or maybe just the ANAL :D ) that leads me to add the link when I copy something off into a file on my computer. Just wanna make sure I can always find it, especially if I need to reference it for somebody.

Glad you posted this. I like Robert Parry's stuff.

on edit - just found it, thanks to your excellent clue:

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. No evidence at all
This same essay keeps popping up on different threads. It contains no evidence at all the Clintons have anything to do with Carville's attacks on Dean. The accusations all just guilt by association,innuendo,and groundless conspiracy theories. It all sounds like very similar nonsense I've heard on Rash Limbaugh.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. that doesn't matter to these people
But I appreciate your effort nonetheless.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yeah - and it wasn't Hillary who scolded Kerry for dropping a PRONOUN in a joke
after Kerry and MILLIONS of other Democrats defended Bill for YEARS after dropping his pants.

And it wasn't Hillary's camp who put up that HeyJohn website where they attacked Kerry as if he was hanging onto money instead of giving it to congressional candidates, and throwing praising at Hillary for her generosity.

Nope. Hillary's not targeting good Democrats just because she's afraid to get on a debate stage with them.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Accusations aren't evidence
I still see no evidence. Just more accusations now which are probably just as groundless.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. See what you want to see - Carville works with the Clintons and if you want to pretend
that he is completely on his own when he's trashing Dean, then suit yourself in rosy skyland.

And if you want to pretend that Clinton did everything he could to assure the public had the information it needed about Bush1 and the serious outstanding matters of IranContra, BCCI, Iraqgate and CIA drugrunning, well, have fun producing THAT evidence.

And Carville IS married to a war criminal - the Downing Street Memos is evidence of that.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. I doubt Limbaugh would even mention that Clinton covered up for Bush1 thereby allowing
Bush2 to find his way into the White House.

And it is a reasonable conclusion that since Clinton let Bush1 off the hook before for SERIOUS matters that his wife would likely do the same for Bush2 if she should rise to office.

And Carville has reasons to to want Bush2's crimes of office covered up since he's married to a BushInc war criminal.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Catapult that propaganda. nt
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't get it. How is winning back both Houses of Congress likened
to Rumsfeld? What has Rumsfeld ever won? And how is winning a huge, signature victory like the Battle of Gettysburg? If the Republicans are the Confederates and the Democrats are the Union, then, yeah, just as the South was crushed at Gettysburg and was never able to recover, then, ok; but how is that bad?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Carville is manicly trying to gain DNC control for the coverup wing of the Dem party.
You know he's doing this because the Clintons charged him to do so. Carville and McAuliffe both are working Hillary 2008.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Those who can't, talk.
:shrug:
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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Strong words, coming from somebody who
had to put a trashcan over his head in 2002 after predicting big Democratic gains.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. And smashed an egg on his face.
I have been looking for that video or picture. The egg smashing was about a year ago.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. There is something severely wrong, either with him, or with those
for whom he is acting as an agent. Something is afoot.

TC
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Carville supports Hillary Clinton. The Clintons don't trust Dean.
The Clintons don't trust Dean. At the very least he's going to play the 2008 primaries straight down the middle and not favor her over other candidates.

There's also the feeling that Dean may have it in for the Clintons because he believes that Bill Clinton was behind the party's move to knock him out of contention in Iowa.

In their worst possible scenario, the party chairman may be beholden to another possible presidential candidate, maybe someone who was not only against the Iraq war from the beginning but who publicly supported Dean in the face of considerable ridicule and later provided Dean with some of his very best staff people. Or perhaps if this candidate doesn't run Dean might favor the up and coming Democratic star who was also anti-war and was one of the original Dean Dozen back when he was running DFA.

If I was Hillary I wouldn't want Howard Dean running the DNC either.

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gWbush is Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Dean doesn't think Hilary is from the Democratic wing of the Dem party
she is Bush-lite which is what Dean is against.

For Hilary to run, and she will run, they want Dean out of the picture.
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shrub chipper Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. Where are the DUers who, last Friday, denied
he was after Dean when the first rounds he shot off his mouth about were being discussed here?

Admit you were wrong?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. It's the election, stupid.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. Smashing egg on face on MTP...bald-headed fool.
This is the guy who is calling for Dean to step down.





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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. EVEN IF he somehow was 100% correct in his
assessment, you don't take this outside the lockerroom.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. Corporal Cueball doesn't know his fucking history
It's been a long time since I've been this disappointed with a former hero. Besides sleeping with that monarchist snit Matalin, he's been little or no help.

First off, the history. Meade couldn't cut off the Army of Northern Virginia. His army was so depleted and gasping for life that they couldn't have mounted even the meekest offensive; his best combat units were torn to shreds and exhausted. Lee made a measured and careful withdrawal covered by very fortunate rain that left Meade no real opportunities to exploit. Although Lincoln was pissed off at Meade, it's salient to note that one of the great military minds of the age, Grant, was full of praise for him and gave him the command of the first corps of the Army of Potomac as soon as he took command of the overall federal war effort shortly thereafter.

Not only am I not a real Dean fan, I've been very vocal during the last primary season against him. He's a centrist and pretty much the most right-wing of any of the major contenders. He lied about the others' votes about the Bush tax cuts. The very recklessness with which he made verbal blunder after blunder made me consider him dangerous.

Having said all that, though, the guy gives a damn, and he's been a wonderful and pugnacious party chair. His was the idea to fight a fifty-state campaign. He's hectored and harried the reactionaries and he's been great

Carville's gone to the dark side now, and he should be ashamed.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. I hate to tell you this
but you're mostly wrong in your original assessment of Dean. Had you based it more on personal observations \than what you picked up in the negative press about him, you'd have been on far more solid ground, IMO.
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
24. Jesus Christ, did he really say that?
I used to find Carville entertainingly amusing and I respected the hell out of the campaign work he did for Clinton, but he's finally jumped the shark me thinks.

Dean just saved the Democratic Party's bacon and now he's "rumsfeldian?" That's some fucked up thinking there. :mad:
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Monty_ Donating Member (162 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
27. I expect nothing less....
from an LSU fan
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