It's interesting to see all the "I hated him all along" threads now...

[MethuenProgressive]

regarding Carville and Murtha. Funny how fast people jump on a shiny new bandwagon when it rolls thru the DU forums...

[movonne]

1. hate carville, love murtha..

[kenny blankenship]

2. It's been a long time since Carville did anything for the party IMO

So when I hear him trashmouthing about Dean after a historic victory (which was larger than anyone in the media was predicting), I just got to wonder about who's pulling his strings and why. He's an attack dog and bites on command.

[bluestateguy]

3. This place has a real "What have you done for me lately?" attitude

I am rather surprised at the short length of time people celebrated our great election victory. In 2 days people were bitching again.

[Doremus]

8. Maybe because that's how long it took Carville and the DLCers to start casting stones.

I didn't see any kvetching until Carville stuck his foot it in ... as usual.

[goclark]

4. After reading "State of Denial" that did it for me

Sleeping with the Enemy is one thing, telling secrets to the enemy is just too much.

[scarletwoman]

5. I can't speak for the anti-Murtha crowd, but I've hated Carville for years.

And have never been shy about saying so here on DU. But you maybe haven't been around here very long? (I checked your profile) So I'm not sure how you are arriving at your judgement.

sw

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Carville is just another paid mouthpiece. Murtha is Nancy Pelosi's choice

for her second in command. So with that in mind, I'm defering to Ms Pelosi.

I figure united leadership is better than divided leadership for the Dems.

Beyond that, I like that Murtha came out and questioned the war, but I'm quite sure he's not perfect and neither is his voting record. Such is life.

[k_jerome]

7. no sheeple here. nt.

[Divernan]

9. You seem to imply John Q. is a sheeple - or did I read that wrong?

Because he definitely is NOT. A "sheeple" is someone who follows blindly. John Q. reflects a pragmatic realization that in realpolitik, leaders get to pick their second in command. The choice is Ms. Pelosi's to make, and she must balance Cong. Murtha's shortcomings with his strengths.

[k_jerome]

10. i was under the impression this was an office that...

was voted for. she has endorsed him, but I don't believe your equating it with a president appointing cabinet is accurate.

[Divernan]

15. Yes, I know the position will be filled by a vote.

But I worked for a state house Dem caucus for 10 years and people campaigning for Speaker typically let other members know who their choice was for Majority Leader. The same held true for the GOP.
That's why I referred to realpolitik.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. Actually, (and to really prove I'm not a sheeple) it's up to the house members

who they pick. I just think at this point it makes sense to have united leadership.

That's just my opinion, and I'm sure however it comes down I'll be able to live with it. I really am not too hot on either candidate.

Also, I'm not sure that k. Jerome was calling me a sheeple in regards to the house #2 position. K. Jerome might just really really really love James Carville and consider him to be the sharpest political mind of the 20th and the 21st century. Maybe the person believes, as Mr. Carville said today, that Newt Gingrich is brilliant and has his pulse solidly on the political mood of the country.

Who knows?


edited to change "that person" to k. Jerome

[k_jerome]

14. actually, its the "i defer to blah blah blah"...

she'll do the right thing. even if it is a regressive right winger buddy she is backing.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. But Ms Pelosi isn't a regressive right winger, now is she? Mr, Murtha

gets a great ratings from the unions, something I doubt they would confer on a "regressive right winger." He also had the guts to be the first house member to speak out against the illegal and stupid war, something that I'm not sure that your preferred Mr. Hoyer has yet seen as necessary.

So you would prefer that liberal speaker Pelosi (with a very high Naral rating and a very low NRA rating)be saddled with a war monger in the # 2 spot who would be attempting to undercut her because she kicked his ass in the last leadership battle?

Mr. Hoyer and Mr. Murtha appear to have not too dis-similar voting records on many issues. Their main differences are on abortion and guns, which, considering their constituents, makes a lot of sense. My bet is if they exchanged voting records, both would be out of their jobs. Both supported the anti-gay DOMA.

Hoyer comes from a much bluer state than does Murtha, and Hoyer represents a much bluer district than does Murtha. Yet Murtha actually voted against some incarnations of the Patriot Act. Hoyer supported them all. Both voted in the minority of Dem congress people and supported the war powers act, yet Murtha later stood up against the war, at considerable political risk.

Also, if we want to neutralize the Repo wedge issues it makes more sense to have the 2 top leadership posts filled with Poleosi, an anti-gun pro-choice Dem with a Pro gun anti choice Dem. Lets face it, the Dems aren't going to restrict choice or take away peoples guns. So the impact is negligible yet the politics make more sense. And both Pelosi and Murtha oppose the war.

Add to that the ability of the leadership to actually work together and to me the decision is a no brainer.

Murtha.


PS, when you characterize someone's argument as blah blah it makes you look like a jerk.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

11. Especially Murtha

NOBODY admitted to any negative feelings a few months back.

[Eric J in MN]

13. I used to like James Carville.

But the way he's bashing Howard Dean again and again within a week has lowered my opinion of him.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Not true at all! Carville and Paul Begala have been catching flak in DU

from the progressive wing ever since they denounced Cynthia McKinney for saying that Bush had been briefed about a bin Laden attack on America before 9/11, and did nothing to prevent it.

Murtha was applauded by DU's progressive wing when he said the war in Iraq was lost and it was time to bring the troops home.

No one is going to cheer Murtha for his anti-LGBT views.