The Way out of Iraq...

[groovedaddy]

Is it just me, or is the way out of Iraq fairly obvious?: the Iraqi people hold a referendum, vote overwhelmingly for the U.S.(Coalition) to leave their country so they can deal with it themselves.
We tell the world that we will honor the will of the Iraqi people and leave. Is this just too simple or what?
I know, I know - WE FUCKED it up so WE should fix it, right? Well, we can & should contribute to the reconstruction of Iraq in a real way - not just pouring money into the pockets of Haliburton & Carlisle and the other cronies.
Why won't this approach work?
I know the military really wants a win there but it ain't gonna happen. They keep talking about "standing up" the security forces in Iraq. All they're doing is empowering the militias by allowing them into the police & military.
I say, let the Iraqis solve their own security problems. What about Al Qaeda gaining a foothold there? I believe the Iraqis will make sure that never happens.
The longer we stay there, the more it looks like the neo-cons are getting what they wanted all along: permanent U.S. military presence in Iraq.

[KKKarl is an idiot]

1. Whichever way we

look at it we screwed up in Iraq. We should have never gone there. Bush has created a monster that is going to be hard to fix. If we leave now then the will be a shiite power stretching from Lebanon to Iran. Not good because the Sunnis have most of the power in the Arab nations & they will want a break in the chain which Iraq was. So probably a war to get Iraq back into Sunni hands. Saddam Hussein did commit crimes against his people, but we have now committed a crime against the whole region. We definitely need to be talking to all the regional powers (that would include Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, UAE, Saudi Arabia & Kuwait) to find out what would work best because Bush surely does not have any idea how the Arab world operates. But Bush feels that half of those nations are terrorists nations so we do not have to negotiate anything with them.

My conclusion is the bottom line suggestion is that we get all the ne-cons of the negotiation table & put the new democratic congress & senate up front to negotiate because Bush & Co have to many pre-requisites.

[groovedaddy]

3. What, exactly, needs to be negotiated?

The partitioning of Iraq?

[KKKarl is an idiot]

5. ..

Anything that will prevent further war in the middle east. We need the people who live there to help figure this out. It is not in anyone's interest to have warring factions in the middle east. But Bush has created the monster & we have to deal with it.

We cannot force democracy onto some nation that does not know the value of it. Democracy was new to the US when the nation was young. But it was decision made by the people here not be some foreign power that invaded us & then told us voting is the best option for determining you leadership. Every nation, where democracy has been successful, embraced it on their own. A dictatorship is not a bad thing if it is what the people are used to. It is better than making them want to believe in something they cannot manage. This will only lead to further turmoil. Like we have in Iraq today. We do not know the answers, but I believe the regional leadership can come up with ideas. Lets not tell them what is good & bad. let them decide how to run their region. This will also prevent further animosity between them & us. What a great idea to help rid the world of terrorists.

But please do not allow the neo-cons in DC near the negotiations. They will only mess it up because it might not fit in with their agenda.

[BridgeTheGap]

2. It seems to me that

the neo-cons knew exactly what they were doing - creating a de-stabalized society. They went in with too small of a force (against the recommendations of many generals). They dissolved the existing police & military of Iraq. They didn't secure locations known to house weapons. They botched the reconstruction projects. They let the Iraqi economy grind to halt. This has all been a set up to keep us ensconced there for decades or longer. That was what the neo-cons wanted and that's what they'll get. Unless...?

[kentuck]

4. Better yet, make the referendum read:

if the Iraqi people want the American people to stay for 12 more months, vote YES, if they do not want them to stay any longer, vote NO...The 12 months would put a timeline on the Iraqis.

[BridgeTheGap]

6. I like that idea

I don't think the existing Iraqi government would go for it though. They're nothing without the U.S. military behind them. Like the neo-cons, they probably don't want the U.S. to leave at all.

[groovedaddy]

7. Then the Iraqi people

need to petition their government, asking for a referendum.

[greeneggs708]

8. Amen

But we are still living in braindead America.

What the braindead will say is, we have to listen to the military.

You mean the ones that screwed this all up.

One thing Bush does not want, a real vote.