Why is it that all one needs to be considered "progressive " on DU

[saracat]

is to be anti-war? I see posts about Murtha being a progressive when his voting record indicates he is anything but. Because he came out and opposed the war he is considers progressive though he doesn't support choice or gay rights? Is nothing except the war important?

[Jed Dilligan]

1. It's a weird phenomenon

BTW, you should change "accept" to "except."

[Sturmrabe]

2. I never noticed people calling him prograssive...

The fact is people like military Dems, and its one thing to be against the war, and its a whole other to be a vet against the war.

Being former military myself I can definitly understand why... I hope Wesley Clack gets back on the political stage...

[nodular]

17. So I presume you reject

the odd, vague story generated around Wesley Clark. 
Basically, people in the media contended that "everyone
who had worked with him thought he was weird."  

This is, of course, in the form of classic character
assassination---which doesn't prove it's true or prove it's
not true.  At one point, nearly everyone in the United States
thought General Sherman was crazy and General Grant was a
hopeless alcoholic.

[Clark2008]

25. Considering I worked around him on the campaign trail and

I know dozens who worked with him (or served under him) in the Army - including my husband - and none of us think he's "weird," I'd have to tell the corporate media to, you know, kiss my ass, if they pulled that shit again.

:shrug:

[nodular]

26. LOL!

Well put.

[StrictlyRockers]

3. According to Gallup it is.

The war tops Americans' concerns by at least 26% over any other issue.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003408914

So, no the war is not everything. But YES, it is VERY important to me right now...and to a lot of other Americans.

I'm not real stoked about Murtha's politics in general, but he was a lightning rod for focussing and fomenting anti-war sentiment in this country at a time when it was not popular. He gets a big pass for that.

SR

[gully]

4. Exactly.

nt

[pennylane100]

5. I don't understand why Pelosi would want him

if he is anti-choice and against gay rights. What is Hoyer's position on these two important points. If he feels the same, we should definitely be considering a third alternative.

[nodular]

18. Hoyer is a political enemy of Pelosi.

Murtha is a way to defeat Hoyer.  it's not always all about
issues---personalities count as well.

[sandnsea]

6. Hoyer isn't a progressive either

Why doesn't anybody care about finding out the truth about Steny Hoyer? He doesn't wany lobbying reform, he works with the Blue Dogs, he's not going to bring change to Washington.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0611.roth.html

[TheWraith]

21. He has a 95% rating from Americans for Democratic Action.

Murtha has a 75% rating. And out of curiousity, are you against working with all the Dems in Congress?

[Zodiak]

22. We do not agree on a lot, sandnsea

But we agree on this.

This was a triple stupid move, in my opinion.

1. Hoyer is a K Street Dem...he represent corporate interests and corporate power within the party. He will do nothing about corruption at all. He likes lobbying. He is not an official member of the DLC, but he has received funding from them on trips, his musings are posted on the DLC page, and he was endorsed to this position by the DLC.

2. Hoyer is "stay the course", which is very unpopular among Americans. Part and parcel to Hoyer's position on Iraq are civil liberties flying out the door, more dead American soldiers, and a mountain of debt that accomplishes nothnig for the American people, and much for military contractors.

3. Hoyer is Pelosi's political enemy, so he will be looking to slide a blade between her ribs at the first opportunity. So we start out with a dysfunctional leadership.


Gay rights, abortion, etc. will not be at issue in the Congress over the next two years, but the war in Iraq will, and so will lobbying and corporatism. We just elected a majority leader who is at odds with the American people on both of those issues. Not smart.

[Skinner]

7. Oh, brother.

Do you want to discuss what the label "progressive" means? Or do you want to discuss whether Murtha is the right choice for Majority leader?

Who says that the members of DU agree on what it means to be "progressive"? And who said the members of DU think Murtha is one?

Is Steny Hoyer a progressive?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

8. After the Q&A on TPM Cafe' yesterday...

I would not make so bold as to call Hoyer a progressive. There are other words. I will leave them to your well-documented active imagination. ;-)

[saracat]

12. Ther was a post referring to him as a progressive so I was curious.

I have seen other posts that accuse Hoyer of being a DLC conservative and some say he is liberal. I did look at Murtha's voting record and that was why I was suprised that the progressives support him.So I wondered is all.

[LoZoccolo]

24. I think your point brings clarity, but think about this...

...should we be debating whether Carville is good or bad, or what a good decision would be as to how to spend money? I'd agree it's stupid of him to try to bring his fight out in the open and make it negative (stupid for him and his reputation), but nobody's talking about the general issue, just whether or not Carville should be appreciated (and I would assert that appreciating/not appreciating is most of what you can count on from 80% of the netroots as far as activism besides voting).

But it's kinda the same thing, people arguing about something auxilliary to the main point. There will always be these kind of fights amongst people in the Democratic Party.

[jobycom]

9. He's the reverse of Lieberman, isn't he? Lieberman is liberal-ish

on most social issues but supported Bush too closely on foreign policy, and we want to boot him from the party. Murtha, who supported Bush more strongly than Lieberman until his overnight conversion, is conservative on most issues other than the war (and labor--he has a good liberal labor record) and is our darling.

I think one difference is that people believe Murtha sincerely changed his opinion as he saw more and more of what was happening, whereas with Lieberman, his decisions always seem politically motivated (I don't believe his support of the invasion was politically motivated, but he comes across that way, anyway).

Frankly, I'd rather not have Murtha in a leadership position. He's not a progressive, not overly liberal, and is more likely to side with the DLC middle way that everyone around here claims to hate. I like the man, I respect the hell out of what he's done for the nation and for his courage in changing his position on the war, but I still don't like the thought of him as Majority Leader. There are a lot of Dems in the House who opposed the war from the beginning--I trust them more than I trust Murtha.

It's the same with Ron Paul. He's a Republican, racist, anti-choic monster, and opposes the war for completely different reasons than us, and yet he gets love around here.

[Robbien]

10. Murtha is not progressive, nor is he DLC.

Murtha is old school centrist Dem.

or so I believe.


There are many groups inside the Democratic party other than Progressive.

[Norquist Nemesis]

11. Be patient and give it a few days

The problem is that one or a handful of posters does not necessary speak for every poster at DU (with the exception of Skinner, of course :) ).

There are several Democrats who I often wonder why they chose to be members of the Democratic Party. Ben Nelson, for example. But in the end, the Democrats have always been groups of people with ideas and values (ugh! I hate using that word) that emulate a Venn Diagram. Republicans are more analogous to a family of geese crossing the road.

[KoKo]

13. "Repugs analagous to Geese Crossing Road..."

Good one! :D

[Norquist Nemesis]

15. I should use spellcheck more often

"analgous" *giggle*

[geek tragedy]

14. People also forget that Murtha voted for the IWR.

He saw the light, but the man is certainly not anti-war. He just thinks Bush fucked this one up, as do many Republicans. I imagine if Chuck Hagel would speak his mind freely, he'd sound much like Murtha.

[BluegrassDem]

16. The ironic thing

is that Obama was against the war from the get-go, and was forcefully, but yet he's not considered progressive on here.

[nodular]

19. Has Obama laid out clear positions on a lot of issues yet?

Some people say he hasn't.  I heard him on the radio. He is
extremely intelligent and articulate.  But during the little
snippet I heard, he seemed to have a tendency to avoid making
a clear stand on any issue.  of course, this does not apply to
the war.

[yellowcanine]

20. Exactly. Murtha is a Johnny come lately on the war and I don't think that is enough

to negate all of the other issues where he is much more conservative than Hoyer and most Democrats. Also, he DOES have ethics baggage and I do not mean Abscam. He is one of the most notorious earmarkers/influence peddlers in the Dem. party.

[sampsonblk]

23. Because these labels are pretty meaningless

They get tossed around - or tossed away - like its nothing.

[greeneggs708]

27. My Progressive

Is anyone that doesn't use labels. But I'm afraid that will never happen.

I am as far left as it gets, I just know it is not 68. We need a leader who brings all to the train.

Everyone knows the war was wrong. Even DarthVader Cheney knows it.

But people have different views on how to end it.

And as of now. There is no right or wrong.

Well, the Bush way is wrong.

[k_jerome]

28. you are very perceptive...

according to conventional wisdom here, Pat Buchanan is a progressive.

[FrenchieCat]

29. There was an election, and one of the candidates won.

Far as I'm concerned, we go from there.

These days, I like Dems better than the GOP. Period.

I would prefer that we start discussing the upcoming agenda that the Democrats will set, now that we are FINALLY in power, instead of discussing something that is going to be as it is.

Pelosi = good Dem
Hoyer = good Dem
Murtha = good Dem

Repubs = bad news!

Racist Lott is the Minority Leader who won by one vote! Now, that's the trip, IYAM!