MSNBC: Hoyer Elected Majority Leader

[TSIAS]

Breaking.

Vote 149-86

[babylonsister]

1. And KBHutchinson is on there scolding the Dems for being so

divisive. Like she should talk. Yuck!

[maxrandb]

32. Oh! Did she mention that 25-24 Ringing Endorsement of Lott

as Minority Whip?

[babylonsister]

39. Very good point, and no, I don't recall her mentioning

Lott's landslide. :D

[Parche]

65. kay bitch hutchinson

Sounds like she tripped over her broomstick this morning.........

[VelmaD]

119. there is absolutely NO reason

for you to resort to that gender slur...there are plenty of non-sexist epithets you can rightfully sling at KBH.

[Parche]

134. kbh

She has no gender.....how about that?

[VelmaD]

137. no...she has a gender...

and if you want to count yourself among enlightened liberals you'll find a way to state your disagreement with her without resorting to insults based on her gender.

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VelmaD]

140. Wow

Way to raise the level of discourse. :eyes:

[Parche]

141. discourse

Ofcourse

[ThomCat]

158. That is just a purely offensive post.

You're not only using an insult that is aimed at women just for being assertive, you're doing it deliberately just to offend a DUer who asked you to be a bit more polite.

This is a site for adults. :eyes:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

162. There are many reasons to dislike Ms. Hutchinson, but what you're

doing is like calling Condoleezza Rice a n*****.

If you wish to describe her specific failings, go ahead, but don't resort to the type of sexist insults that are typical of the less evolved types of 15-year-old boys.

[krkaufman]

172. Wow, that's kinda sexist to categorize 15-year-old boys as "less evolved"

What is it that you have against 15-year-old boys? There's no need to resort to such a low form of teenist dialogue.

[VelmaD]

175. reading comprehension

She didn't say all 15 year old boys are less evolved...she compared a poster whose response to me was to type out "She's a bitch" over and over and over again to the less evolved type of 15 year old boy.

[krkaufman]

183. But why did she choose to limit her analogy to just teen boys?

Are teen girls somehow superior? Aren't there just as many less-evolved 15-year-old girls? (The evidence that the Republican Party hasn't naturally atrophied indicates that there are a good many less-evolved girls out there, as well.)

[VelmaD]

185. The point is she was comparing the behavior of some men on DU...

with the behavior of the kind of teenage boys who treat women and girls like pieces of meat. The behavior of less evolved teenage girls is somewhat different than that of their less evolved male peers.

[krkaufman]

193. No, she wasn't comparing "some men" on DU to teenage boys...

... she was comparing the exhibited behavior to "less evolved" teenage boys. The "less evolved" qualifier didn't mitigate the sexist nature of her criticism, that teenage boys somehow have a corner on the immaturity market.

[VelmaD]

195. like I said...reading comprehension

What is it about this that is so hard for you to grasp? She compared the behavior under discussion to the behavior of, and I quote, "the less evolved TYPE of 15 year-old boy". Not to 'less evolved 15 year-old boys'...which would imply all 15 year old boys are less evolved. But to the less evolved TYPE of 15 year old boy...which proposes there is a TYPE of 15 year old boy that behaves the same way the poster that started all this behaved.

This is the last post I'm making on this topic. After this point I'm just going to assume that you're intentionally mis-interpreting the post. Like one of the members of the Texas legislature once said to a colleague while describing a bill..."I can read it to you but I can't understand it for you."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

177. I'm a former teen-age girl and the sister of two brothers

I stand by my characterization.

[krkaufman]

184. Ah, so *your* generalization based on personal experience is OK.

Got it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

186. If the shoe fits, wear it.

:shrug:

[sendero]

171. no thanks...

... I'm not going to neuter myself to please the folks who are the main reason liberals are so easily mocked.

I don't hear anyone getting bent about "bastard" or "prick" or any number of other male-gendered epithets, and a bitch is a bitch, sorry if you have a problem with that, but it's really YOUR problem, not mine ever again.

Your brand of "enlightenment" is really stone aged. Folks have moved on, and you might as well get used to it.

[VelmaD]

174. It's so nice to know...

that sexism isn't your problem. What the fuck ever. :eyes:

No reasonable individual could possibly argue that bastard or prick are used in the same way and with the same venom that bitch is used to put women down both individually and as a class.

My brand of enlightenment is the kind where people don't go around intentionally insulting each other. It's the brand where people actually have concern for the feelings of others rather than contempt.

It's people like you who make it easy for people to consider liberals hypocrites.

[sendero]

176. If you don't mind..

... I'll concern myself with REAL sexism, discrimination in the workplace, in regards to the law, with respect to opportunities - and leave the petty bullshit to you.

[VelmaD]

178. pardon me if I don't let a man...

tell me what is "REAL" sexism.

What in the hell makes you think women are incapable of working on ALL of the issues you listed plus a whole helluva a lot more subtle sexist bullshit we put up with every fucking day that most men don't even see? Sheesh.

Here's a clue for you...it is much more difficult to get change on the big things in a culture that happily tolerates all the petty little sexist bullshit. So yeah, getting men to stop thinking bitch is a synonym for woman may seem like no big deal to you...but some of us see it as part of a bigger picture.

[ThomCat]

189. You know, when people who have no substantial concern about

prejudice try to define REAL prejudices it is always to define their own actions as an exception, as something somehow acceptable.

Sometimes a simple apology is all that's needed. Just accept that sexist language is a serious issue and move on.

[bliss_eternal]

194. ...and with as much frequency.

You just don't see "prick" and "bastard" used as frequently as "bitch." It's worthwhile to think about why that is, and the messages that sends in the grand scheme of things. ;)

[ThomCat]

188. Actually, you very rarely ever hear feminists

use male epithets for the same reason. It's gender stereotyping.

There are exceptions occassionally. I won't claim anyone is perfect. But at least feminists make the effort. You apparently can't be bothered.

You mock feminism as "enlightenment," whatever you mean by putting that in quotes, and you call it stone aged, but who's really trying to move forward here? You claim to have moved on, where have you moved to if you're still using juvenile language to stereotype people?

[sendero]

190. Its Stone Aged..

.... to continue to admonish folks for doing things that they don't think are wrong. If you think the "word police" haven't done more harm to the cause of feminism than good, that's your opinion. In the crowd I hear, they agree that women deserve the same rights as men, but when you start telling them "you can't say this and you can't say that", they bristle at the blatant hypocrisy and the "mind control" aspect of the position.

Trying to compare the word bitch with something like a racial epithet won't wash either. The word has distinct meaning beyond just being demeaning to half the population, and any HONEST person understands that.

When I'm trying to bring folks around to my way of seeing things, I concentrate on the aspects of my position that are unassailable. This isn't.

[0007]

155. She is a bitch of the worse sort and a crook on top of it.....

"there are plenty of non-sexist epithets you can rightfully sling at KBH" Oh pleeeeese!

[VelmaD]

156. "oh pleeeeeeeese" yourself

If the best you can do is call her a "bitch" then I don't have much respect for you or your communication skills. We're supposed to be better than this.

[ThomCat]

157. I agree that "Bitch" is out of line.

It's a gender specific insult, and it pushes a stereotype that hurts all women. No matter how right or wrong a woman is, she can be assertive without being a "bitch."

[bliss_eternal]

159. Well said, ThomCat.

:hi:

[ThomCat]

161. Hi Bliss_Eternal!

:hi:

Good to see you.

[bliss_eternal]

163. Hey You!

;) Good to see you, too! :hi:

[krkaufman]

179. Sure. But maybe the term was used because KBH is far more than assertive.

KBH is, at best, an enabler for a criminal group of politicians.

[VelmaD]

181. see...that's what I'm talking about

You just described her perfectly...and without any references to her gender or appearance or any of the other things people seem to resort to when they don't feel like thinking.

[krkaufman]

170. Not to mention that they mixed their epithet metaphor...

... or made a broad generalization.

Is she a bitch or a witch? I mean it's a bit presumptive to assume all witches have bad dispositions, if not downright wrong. There wouldn't be a need for qualifiers such as "wicked witch" or "the good witch" if all witches could be so easily categorized.

[ThomCat]

160. Witch and Bitch

Geez, nothing like stereotyping women. It feels like high school in here all of a sudden.

You know there are a lot of wiccans and other pagans here at DU, right?
I've already said what I think about the word Bitch. Maybe if you hear it from several people you'll pay attention?

[bliss_eternal]

164. It just seems SO unnecessary...

to insult pagans and female dogs. ;) ...dontcha' think? There are quite a few animal activists on DU, too.

[ThomCat]

165. Yes. If I want to insult someone

I should at least be able to describe the offensive behavior well enough to come up with some really specific and appropriate insults.
:7

[VelmaD]

166. I find "scum-sucking bottom-feeder"...

works pretty well. Gender neutral and describes most republicans. :)

[bliss_eternal]

168. Good one, Velma!

But again, you're a creative individual--obviously.

[VelmaD]

169. I love coming up with new ways...

to insult people's behavior while insulting their intelligence at the same time. The best is when you call them something and they don't even understand what you said. :evilgrin:

But mostly, I just don't like insulting people accidentally. I like to save it up and insult people when they actually deserve it.

[bliss_eternal]

167. But darling, YOU have a "vocabulary" ...

and critical thinking skills, enabling you to take the time to "think" before creating appropriate insults. ;)
Tossing off such "uncreative" terms takes no thought at all.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

71. Who gives a shit what she thinks?

Sit down and shut up, aging prom queen.

[still_one]

72. who in the hell asked her opinion, she isn't a Democrat

typical MSM BS

[MADem]

136. But.....but...... but..... she's ... a ..... GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Must I pull out the :sarcasm: thing for the irony-impaired? I had probably better, to thwart any high dudgeon, eh?

She belongs to the VAGINA club--and see, all those humans with vaginas, well, they surely must think alike!!!! They all have a secret code, you know, like the black club, the muslim club, or the hispanic club!! They're rather like a BORG, doncha know!!!!

:rofl:

[jobycom]

81. KBH-- voted "Least Likely to be confused with a Rocket Scientist"

by her Senate colleagues, reportedly.

[BattyDem]

86. It's not divisive - it's democracy.

Unlike the GOP, the Democrats don't "anoint" a candidate and force everyone else to fall in line behind that candidate. Dems can disagree and have a healthy debate, but when all is said and done, they get together and support the winner. If the GOP did that, they probably wouldn't have become the "Neocon/Theocrat Party."

[stopbush]

2. Great. Now we can get on with something important.

[cadmium]

47. Agreed. nt

[Skinner]

3. 149-86

Kinda looks bad for pelosi, imo.

[The Deacon]

11. Not So Bad

She showed she would stand up for her guy, but she didn't jam it down the Caucus' throat. Sometimes the best way to advance something is to let others do a little winning too.

[BootinUp]

13. She may have expected this

She is too skilled to make that kind of mistake. I think she wanted to show support for Murtha regardless of the outcome.

[BattyDem]

88. I agree with that. Pelosi had to have known that Hoyer had the votes to win.

She stood up for Murtha for an entirely different reason. JMHO

[katinmn]

109. Yep. Honest loyalty is an honorable quality

She knew going in it wouldn't be the most popular pick but she didn't roll back. I think it shows some backbone and character.

[smalll]

150. I agree too.

She must know how to count votes - she's more than competent. It was a gesture - to Murtha for sure, maybe even a gesture to the anti-war crowd - red meat for the netroots kind of thing. Sort of like, Nancy Pelosi sent US roses. I think Pelosi knows what she's doing, and may end up as a great Speaker. I'm struck by that story of her "keeping the book" for her father the Mayor of Baltimore back when she was a little girl. She knows politics!

[flpoljunkie]

16. That adds up to 235. That can't be correct, can it?

[Skinner]

26. Looks about right.

Wikipedia shows 232 Dems in the House, with 5 races still undecided.

ON EDIT: There are also 5 non-voting delegates in the House. I'm not sure how many are Dems. But I think the Dems let their delegates vote in stuff like this.

[smb]

66. If it's an internal Democratic Party vote...

...it's up to them whether or not people like the DC non-voting rep participate -- I'm assuming that they did, and this accounts for the extra numbers.

[IndyOp]

27. But, removing some of the sting, she was elected unanimously.

I think that her unanimous election is an important counter-balance to the pro-Hoyer vote. I hope that her unanimous election will prevent Hoyer from undercutting her as he has done in past.

[MADem]

41. I disagree. It makes her look loyal to her old friend. She'll get over it,

he'll get over it, Hoyer has already said he didn't take her endorsement of Murtha personally (hell, he remembers who he ran against for the minority leader job) and we'll get on with business...assuming the tabloid media doesn't keep trying to make a big deal out of a vote that turned out pretty much the way the nose-counters on the Hill predicted it would more than a week ago.

When I ask the "What have we learned?" questions, I come up with this: First, after all that noise, it looks like Hoyer lost maybe one vote. Second, Nancy Pelosi is a loyal person, and that's a great quality to have in a Speaker. Third, Jack Murtha is, at his age and absent any previous experience in House leadership posts, not the pick of the litter of his own delegation. Lastly, life will go on, if the media lets it.

Now, on to the issues that matter. The housekeeping is done.

[Junkdrawer]

83. I think it was a referendum on whether Dems would challenge Bush on Iraq...

My sense is that the "Out of Iraq" caucus will be the largest in Congress, but that it will be a minority position.

[EVDebs]

116. Not really, follow the $ Skinner. WHO contributed to Hoyer ?

Same lobbyists that paid to play with the R's. The more things change, eh ? Pyhrric victory

""Letters to the Editor
Don’t expect change

EDITOR: The Democratic Leadership Committee controls the Democratic Party. Virtually the same Fortune 500 companies that control the Republican Party control the DLC. According to The American Prospect, “For $5,000, 180 companies, lobbying firms, and individuals found themselves on the DLC’s board of advisers, including British Petroleum, Boeing, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Coca-Cola, Dell, Eli Lilly, Federal Express, Glaxo Wellcome, Intel, Motorola, U.S. Tobacco, Union Carbide and Xerox, along with trade associations ranging from the American Association of Health Plans to the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. For $10,000, another 85 corporations signed on as the DLC’s policy roundtable, including AOL, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Citigroup, Dow, GE, IBM, Oracle, UBS PacifiCare, PaineWebber, Pfizer, Pharmacia and Upjohn, and TRW.

Therefore, since these same corporations control both parties, don’t expect much political change. Moreover, since these same corporations control the media, it will be very surprising if this message ever gets into any major newspaper.""

published Wed. Nov 15
http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061115/NEWS/61115004/1044/OPINION02

If things don't really begin changing expect THIS DUer to begin voting GREEN at all levels of government.

[MADem]

133. Follow the money indeed--check who STENY contributed to. Loyalty is a two way street.

Steny gave more than a million bucks to the incoming freshmen for their campaigns. And he has given similarly large amounts to every incoming class since he got his PAC up and running. He earned the loyalty by raising money for Democrats, and helping them win.

He campaigned for them. Hell, he RECRUITED them. He had more votes locked up and SIGNED for than Murtha got. Ranking members, Black caucus members, Blue Dogs...he had declared support. It was NEVER a contest.

Murtha, too, usurped the ordinary progression of things. As Barney Frank said, if you do the work, you should get the promotion. Steny has been doing the work for twelve years. And Steny has voted with the GOP way less than Murtha has, if you check their records.

Pelosi knew this would happen. She was given an opportunity to demonstrate her loyalty, she did, but the conclusion was foregone. It was a win-win for her, and anyone who sees the "inside baseball" aspect of this can understand that. Only the stooooooops on TV who love a catfight and those who do not understand the process are ignoring that reality.

When all was said and done, as should have happened, everyone who worked over the past twelve years for this victory got promoted.

You clearly have trouble understanding how things work on the Hill. POLICY views have nothing to do with who gets the leadership jobs. Don't make the mistake of confusing policy with cat herding. If you continue to do that, you may as well go waste your vote with the Greens.

[krkaufman]

180. You mean Republican, I believe. : ) n/t

[EVDebs]

187. No, Green. If money is the mother's milk of politics then the middle class IS screwed

as Thom Hartmann tells us along with NYTime's David Cay Johnston. Waste my vote on Greens, huh ? If Dems don't produce....we'll soon see.

Repealing the Bankruptcy bill ? Giving consumers more rights vs. credit card companies and banks ? Rolling back the Bush agenda ? or just more of the same paid for legislation.

You both must be in the top 1 and 1/2 percent wealthiest.

[krkaufman]

192. No, just in the reality-based community.

Where successful election is possible, I definitely urge going for third-party candidates that best meet your political positions. Where the two-party-favoring electoral system still rules the day, I recommend EVERYONE (Greens, Dems, etc) getting behind one of the planks in the Green Party's platform... Instant Runoff Voting... which would reform our electoral systems to end the traditional spoiler effect of third-party candidates.

To that end, I recently made a donation to FairVote.org, to support their efforts in promoting IRV around the country. I'm surprised at how few people are aware of IRV, what I prefer to think of as "majority support" voting.

[OzarkDem]

143. Something smells

Closed door vote, lots of arm-twisting.

This isn't the way Dems should operate.

[neuvocat]

145. I think the same way.

I wonder though what to make of it exactly. You can't spin it to look good for her but I'm not there to know what guided their decisions. I mean, is it against Pelosi or is it in favor of the man they voted for, or is it against Murtha?

Could it have something to do with Pelosi saying impeachment is off the table or possibly that lunch she had with Bush talking about concessions and bipartisanship?

[Target_For_Exterm]

4. This is bad news for our (extended) future in Iraq.

[bemildred]

7. Bad news indeed. nt

[question everything]

8. Democracy starts at home

and we need to respect the voters' wishes.

[Taxloss]

15. Welcome to DU, Target.

:hi:

[kay1864]

23. Okay, I'm out of touch...

Can someone explain why this is bad news for our future in Iraq? All I know about Hoyer is his Wikipedia entry :hi:

Or is b/c Murtha said "get out of Iraq" and Hoyer has said...what exactly?

[Virginia Dare]

30. I don't think it is...

the Democrats were swept into power largely because of the war, I would imagine Pelosi et al are smart enough to realize this and act accordingly. They will all get back on the same page now, I have faith!

[Target_For_Exterm]

38. Here's a quote from Hoyer:

"After the first of four recent speeches by President Bush on Iraq, I stated that a precipitous withdrawal of American forces from that country could lead to disaster, spawning a civil war, fostering a haven for terrorists, and damaging our nation’s security and credibility. I still believe that we can – and we must – achieve success in Iraq. Of course, we have succeeded in the initially stated objective of removing the Hussein regime, and providing a context in which a democratically-elected government could be put in place. Its ability to sustain itself is our last objective."

http://www.hoyer.house.gov/newsroom/index.asp?ID=575&DocumentType=Op-Ed

[BootinUp]

43. That was 10 months ago.

Not sure that would be the same statement he would make now.

[krkaufman]

182. Yes, that bit of info is helpful in determining context. n/t

[smb]

70. So?

Nobody wants a precipitoous withdrawl -- the Pottery Barn rule still applies. It's going to take time (and, unfortunately, more blood and treasure) to clean up after George of the Bungle.

[jobycom]

92. Here's a quote from Murtha saying the same thing

“A premature withdrawal of our troops based on a political timetable could rapidly devolve into a civil war which would leave America’s foreign policy in disarray as countries question not only America’s judgment but also its perseverance”, he stated.<15> (2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_murtha#Views_on_the_2003_Iraq_War

The point is, Murtha's opinion changed from that. Let's see what Hoyer does when he starts debating the issue. Then we can criticize or praise his current views, not his 10 month old views.

[BattyDem]

96. I have a "wait and see" attitude about Hoyer and Iraq

That statement was made almost a year ago - long before the public made it loud and clear (through the elections) that they no longer support the "stay the course" war plan and they want the troops home. Also, Hoyer said that "a precipitous withdrawal of American forces from that country could lead to disaster." In other words, no rapid withdrawl ... but that doesn't mean he wants them there indefinitely (without an exit strategy), either. I'd like to know how he feels about Iraq TODAY before I make a decision about him.


Welcome to DU! :hi:

[MADem]

51. No it isn't. Good grief. The Minority Leader isn't a deciding body.

He's a cat herder. A whole SHITLOAD of people, from committee chairmen to big money contributors within the caucus to those with massive seniority play an enormous role to influence the party direction. What a crazy and inaccurate statement.

And you might try looking up Steny's more recent votes on war matters. I recommend you check the ON THE ISSUES website to actually learn that Steny is well left of Murtha on most issues.

[maxrandb]

54. Just a small point

but he is actually the majority leader.

Sorry, but I just love to say that word MAJORITY

[BootinUp]

62. just a minor correction? lol.

[MADem]

67. Bwahahaha!!! Geez, I've been down so long it feels like up to me!!!!!

That's a HUGE point...or should I say HUGH!1!1! I could correct it, but I'll leave it, to remind myself that we really DO have the House and the Senate!!!!!!!

[GoblinToe]

60. May be bad news for early pull out of Iraq, but...

...it's great news for women's right to choose.

As much as I commend Murtha for being as outspoken as he was when few had to guts to do so,
he is Pro Life across the board. Personally, I just can't support that. I'm sure Murtha would do
an excellent job as Majority Leader, if he had won, but I just can't support anyone who votes the way
he does when it comes to the personal freedom of one's own body.

I also don't think this will hurt Nancy. She stood up and supported a friend, and that shows her
loyalty.

Time to move on now and kick some ass, united.

[TheWebHead]

5. I'm happy

it avoids a right wing smear engine investigating 30 years of Murtha and putting that ABSCAM tape on an endless loop. We saw the efforts the right made to "avenge" Nixon w/ Clinton and we'd have seen likewise w/ Murtha after Delay.

[peaches2003]

9. Agreed

It would never end.

[dmosh42]

21. I'm not happy, at all!

Pelosi may have to look over her shoulders more in trying to do any reforms in the house.

[WatchWhatISay]

28. Are you sure?

I am now officially waiting for the media to drop the other shoe.

[Tesha]

6. I'm glad it's settled. I think I'm glad it's not Murtha. (NT)

[SharonRB]

10. I think this is bad news in a couple of ways

It doesn't make Pelosi look good.
It's a bad omen for the war.

[MidwestTransplant]

25. Let's face it, Murtha has a checkered past. We don't want a

high profile Dem. to fall to an ethics scandal. I don't think it makes a difference for the war.

Go Blue!

[dennis00]

69. Murtha ethics

He has never been been charged. The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones

[MidwestTransplant]

80. From what I understand he is being investigated and the Abscam

thing he got bailed out of by Tip O'Neil. Why not put somebody in there who is basically above reproach? The Republicans wanted Murtha to win so they could nail him. He is also against the ethics bill. He will continue to speak against the war and will get plenty of air time.

[Polesitter]

142. Grand Jury gave him the same title as Richard Nixon - undicted co-conspirator

Isn't that enough?

[SharonRB]

125. Go Blue

to you, too!

I can't wait until Saturday.

[PegDAC]

146. And for balance...

GO BUCKS!!
(My high school colors were Scarlet and Gray, too!) :)

[Virginia Dare]

34. It's just politics and internal wrangling...

it doesn't mean a whole lot in the overal scheme of things, they'll back Madam Speaker on the important things, have faith, I know I do!! :hi:

[longship]

12. This is okay with me.

It's not what I wanted, but it should put an end to the "shampoo-rinse-repeat" news cycle on Murtha's so-called ethics problems.

In the end, I think this should work out okay. Nancy's still in the lead and Hoyer has stated clearly that he will cooperate.

This was a win-win situation for Dems, no matter which guy won. I'm just happy that it's over.

[WatchWhatISay]

35. How many days till they need a new shampoo?

And the media starts its allegations against Hoyer?

Let us not be naive.

[longship]

55. But that would happen regardless.

So, the best tactic is to get behind the Dem leadership.

Of course, you can also write letters to congress, news media, LTTE, etc., which everybody ought to do anyway.

[Reader Rabbit]

14. My congressman, Earl Blumenauer, explained his vote...

...on Thom Hartmann's program this morning. He thought they were both good candidates, but that Murtha was the far more conservative of the two, and prior to his stance against the Iraq War, he often voted with the Republicans. Earl explained that, while Murtha has been standing up for Democrats for a year (his Iraq stance), Hoyer has been standing up for progressive causes for 12 years.

As I didn't really know that much about either of the two men, his explanation made a great deal of sense to me, and I am satisfied with both his vote and the outcome.

[stopbush]

17. The not-even-close vote shows that Murtha didn't have the pulse

of the Ds. Yesterday he said he had the votes. He was either lying, woefully uninformed or delusional.

[WatchWhatISay]

42. Hoyer said it last week with just as much conviction

The truth is nobobdy knows because they will not be held accountable to anyone for their vote (secret ballot), which is a good thing.

But I did detect a hint of BS when Murtha said it. Didnt know if it was because he knew otherwise, or he didn't really know what the truth was, but if they didn't appear confident of winnging, it would be all over right then.

[WatchWhatISay]

49. Once again the corporate media gets what they want, and we give it to them

Just like what they did to Howard Dean.

[MADem]

61. They wanted a halfassed CAT FIGHT, IMO. And they loved the idea of a FEMALE smack-dab in the middle

Even though the vote count ended up pretty well what the real experts predicted a week or more ago. But here's the truth of the matter in a nutshell, buried in the NYT:

The Hoyer-Murtha contest was not fought along conventional ideological lines. Mr. Murtha, 74, a staunch conservative on most issues with the exception of his highly publicized opposition to the Iraq war, had the support from some of the most liberal Democrats. Mr. Hoyer, the more liberal of the two, had strong backing from moderates and centrists, as well as some of the most seasoned House Democrats.

House and Senate members.....wondered why, in her moment of victory, she injected herself into a leadership fight that was bound to end with the selection of her rival, Mr. Hoyer, or her own choice, a lawmaker criticized for his ethics record, after an election in which Democrats campaigned on a clean-government theme.

Mr. Hoyer and Ms. Pelosi have had a sometimes tense relationship, at least in part because he unsuccessfully challenged her for the party whip post in 2001. In that contest, Mr. Murtha ran Ms. Pelosi’s campaign.

Mr. Murtha, who is 74 and has been in Congress for almost 33 years, threw more fuel on that fire. Members of the conservative Democratic Blue Dog group said that during an appearance before them Tuesday, Mr. Murtha disparaged an ethics overhaul that Ms. Pelosi and the leadership have been promising as one of their first orders of business.......After writing a letter of support for Mr. Murtha, Ms. Pelosi personally went to bat for him, attending a reception for new members and pressing lawmakers on their choice for majority leader. Her allies say her intervention reflects the sort of risk-taking strategy that has brought her to the brink of becoming speaker, and that it sent a message to lawmakers that if they stick with her, she will reciprocate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/16/us/politics/16congcnd.html?hp&ex=1163739600&en=ff1c971279854b88&ei=5094&partner=homepage

A stoops-to-conquer technique, demonstrating her character, even though the conclusion was foregone. And Hoyer isn't holding a grudge, because he is politically pragmatic, and a decent guy who understands things like loyalty.

[maxrandb]

91. Most Guys do love a Catfight n/t

[MADem]

97. Even the Andrea Mitchells and Norah O'Donnells were eager for one

It was as eagerly awaited as a season ending episode of DYNASTY.....

But in a week or two, people will barely remember this.

[quiet.american]

64. Or just displaying political bravado.

You know -- "never let them see you sweat." :-)

[smb]

Chest-Beating BS

Murtha was doing the same thing Dumbya and Rovinator were doing when they declared their confidence that they'd hold both houses of Congress. :rofl:

[MannyGoldstein]

18. Here Comes The DLC Freight Train

The Predator Class will purchase its way to victory.

[mom cat]

113. Bingo!

[Lurking Dem]

127. So are all the people who voted for Hoyer

now on your shit list?

[Tiggeroshii]

19. fuck

I guess :shrug:

I didn't know Murtha too well, anyways. HEck I don't know this guy at all. Murtha was recorded as being "corrupt" 20 years ago or so, for refusing but not totally refusing some bribe by in some fbi investigation. People were tlakinga botu how corrupt Hoyer is,but I can't see Murtha as too much better, hearing whatI heard this mornign. Then again, I don't know much(if anything) about either of the guys.

I had a specialappreciation for Murtha simply because of his call a while back, but that's all really...

[flyingfysh]

20. now that this is over

Let's get on with the investigations! Get those subpoenas ready to send out as soon as possible!

Once enough evidence about the Bush crowd comes out, people will demand impeachment. But we've got to get the hearings going.

[yodermon]

22. Procedural question:

Why do they elect the majority leaders before the new session starts? Doesn't the speaker get elected by the new congress? Why does the old congress elect the maj/min. leaders of the new congress? etc, thanks.

[Sammy Pepys]

33. Leadership handles legislative scheduling and agendas

They're elected the session before so the calender can be put together.

[Submariner]

24. Hoyer? Amazing

I follow politics as much as anyone on this board, and I don't believe I ever heard of Hoyer before. I had to look up his photo on Google images to see who he was. I recall seeing him somewhere before, but he must not have any distinguishing qualifications to be such a remote figure.

Too bad for our man Murtha who started the get out Iraq discussion for real last year.

[smb]

76. One Good Thing About Hoyer

This pretty much signals the end of Dumbya's attempts to screw up the civil service system.

[MADem]

29. Gee, it's Hoyer by only one vote less than the smart money had him at a week ago

Hoyer did the work to get the nomination. While Nancy was loyal to her old friend, the voters in that election were quite rightly loyal to Hoyer, who recruited, campaigned for, and heavily contributed to newcomer-freshmen and others in the delegation.

So, despite and after all of that windbaggery on the part of the pundits, it looked like the Democratic legislators pretty much stuck with the guy they liked and to whom they had committed in the first place. A whole lotta sound and fury. Signifying nothing, at the end of the day.

Good enough, then--time to get down to REAL business, after all of the back-and-forth and Monday morning quarterbacking finally subsides.

I just wonder if the news media is going to keep covering the Congress in the coming year or two as though it is a cheap soap opera, or a Hollywood tabloid scandal. I do wish they'd stop that shit. It makes THEM, and by that I mean the media, not the Congress, look like a bunch of ignorant asses.

[BootinUp]

Did you see Murtha on hardball yesterday?

He was pushing awful hard in the court of public opinion. Maybe he is not the best for this job though, seems he was out of the loop, lol.

[MADem]

77. Yes, I did. And let that be a lesson to everyone who thinks that what people

SAY, and the way things are SPUN, have anything to do with reality. They were trying to use the PUBLIC to influence a decision that the public does not take part in. We generally only get involved when it's time to get rid of a congressional leader (Delay, Lott, for example) but not when they are installed!

Murtha has allied himself with the GOP on more than one occasion. He brings home a lot of bacon to PA. Who has a brother in politics in PA? A Republican brother? A brother who just lost his race for the LT Governorship? Why, Tweety does.

When Tweety gets up there and does one of his advocacy shows (the Tom Delay one comes to mind--he must have been one HELLUVA source) you have to ask yourself, cui bono? Who benefits?

That program looked like a dog-and-pony softball setup from the git-go. Tip O'Neill taught Tweety one lesson well: all politics is LOCAL. However, if he really wanted to help Murtha, he would have done that program a week earlier, as a preemtive strike. Even at that, Hoyer always had the votes. He won by one less than the smart money had him winning by over a week ago.

[theoldman]

31. While I strongly respect Murtha for his military experience

and service to our country I think he carries too much baggage. He is a lightening rod for the Republicans attacks. I also think he is getting a little to old and his brain is not as sharp as it was. I am almost 73 and I think I am more alert than Murtha. I hope that he will continue his influence on the situation in Iraq.

[wisteria]

36. SHIT!!! THIS MEANS DEATHS AND YEARS IN IRAQ.

SCREW THE DLC AND THEIR MEDIA PEOPLE!

[Richardo]

40. Yes. Steny Hoyer will dictate Iraq policy for the entire government

:eyes:

[wisteria]

44. No but he will have enough control to block others efforts.

I suppose some in our party haven't profited enough from the carnage in Iraq yet.

[Stuckinthebush]

45. I seriously doubt that

I wouldn't worry.

[wisteria]

48. Not with the DLC in charge- I will worry- screw them! n/t

[SouthernBelle82]

58. You wouldn't worry?

Oh think again. Check out David Sirota on the Huffington Post. He made a blog about Hoyer and the democrats I think everyone should read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/hoyers-campaign-to-under_b_11848.html On edit when someone earlier in this thread said Nancy should look over her shoulder I agree. She should watch out for Hoyer.

[Stuckinthebush]

108. I wouldn't worry about Iraq

and us being there for years and years now just because of Hoyer.

I'll read the blog post.

[MADem]

78. Wow, reallly? Why, "you cant be series, this is hugh!1!1!"

Come on. What an asinine statement. You can't possibly be that obtuse.

[LSK]

90. this claim is as silly as the claim that terrorists won with dem victory

last week.

[LoZoccolo]

93. And people wonder why 900+ people ended up on my ignore list. n/t

[StrictlyRockers]

37. Pelosi knows what she is doing. She knew this woud happen.

[goodhue]

79. indeed

[Lurking Dem]

129. It amazes me

how many here don't get how the game is played.

[MADem]

131. They slept through the university level American History classes, I fear

After the Saturday morning "I'm only a bill, and I'm sittin' here on Capitol Hill" tunes, they tuned out to the realities of the process. It's kinda sad. They see everything in childish, brightly colored, ideological terms--a team sport, or something akin to "Pro" wrestling.

The reality of it all, the pragmatism, and the enduring requirement for compromise to advance the American political agenda is completely lost on them.

[Lurking Dem]

135. I'm afraid you're right.

Although many of us didn't take university level history courses - we are old enough to have still had Civics taught in high school. :P

[PassingFair]

151. I can hear your chardonnay glasses clinking from here...

touche you Vichy chess players, touche!

:puke:

[Lurking Dem]

154. wtf are you on about?

[SouthernBelle82]

46. Aw

I'm sad for Murtha since I supported him. Maybe he can be whip or something. I still think he deserves some type of leadership role for his leadership when nobody else did. :(

[maxrandb]

50. OH MY GAWD!!!

People with differing views might actually have to work together and come to a consensus! Whatever will we do? Our 230 year experiment in Democracy is over.

We really need a "hand-wringing" emoticon.

[wisteria]

52. Actually I am all for that. It is the DLC that wants it their way or no way.

They want to dictate and have everyone follow them.

[paulk]

144. where are you getting the DLC in all this?

(and please don't refer me to that jackass Sirota's column.)

Steny Hoyer is not a member of the DLC.

And... how do you square your support of John Kerry with your DLC sentiments? Kerry was a member in good standing for many years.

In fact, I haven't seen any statement from him saying he still isn't.

[stepnw1f]

82. Bullcrap

It means more of same leadership from the DLC shoving it's own agenda down everyone's throat again. Work with others my ass.... you have it backwards.

[iconoclastic cat]

85. How about a "pooping pants" emoticon? nt

[maxrandb]

98. No! They have one of those at Freaker Republic

It's called a "Brown Alert", and they had a bunch of them on 8 November!

[wyldwolf]

99. Thank you.

:)

[LetsGoMurphys]

53. I'm torn

On one hand Murtha would have been better for us. He has the right ideas for Iraq and is not afraid to go toe to toe w/ anyone about it. On the other hand, although I didn't think his ethics should be in question, the American people may feel they are. It shows them the democratic party is trying to root out corruption and throw anyone under the bus that is questionable. Tough call.

[Richardo]

56. ..if you're a one-issue Democrat (Iraq) Murtha was the guy...

...for overall Dem-ness, Hoyer is the better choice.

[luckyleftyme2]

57. pnly if he has balls

IF HE'S A RUBBER STAMP FOR STAY THE COURSE BOOT HIM!

[dmosh42]

63. Murtha understands old Democrat thing for jobs in US

While many of our 'new' style Dems are in favor of these 'slave trade' agreements, Murtha voted against the biggest one in 2000, with China. "Fair trade, not slave trade"!

[LetsGoMurphys]

74. I'm certainly not one issue

but it's the most important issue right now. It has impact on all aspects of American life from the way we are viewed in the world, to how much money we are spending over there, to creating more terrorism, and the list can go on.

[dwp6577]

59. This is OK

- Pelosi owed Murtha a favor for all he has done for her
- She probably knew he wouldn't get it, but had to give him props
- Murtha's been great for a little over a year, but historically he's been a hawk and a bit on the conservative side
- Murtha's got some ethics baggage that would have been fodder for the right
- Hoyer is more progressive and has been that way for 10 years
- Murtha's still got a good position (head of some committee having to do with war appropriations I believe)

Earl Bloominhaur (sp) was on Portland, OR "Thom Hartman" show this morning and outlined all this along with his support for Hoyer.

I just hope Murtha takes it well. His hawkish position change has been wonderful and he is a hero to the left.

Let's all get along

expose the bushitler cabal to the public for all they have done ... and let the public demand IIIIMMMMPPPPEEEAAAACCCHHHMMMMEEENNNNTTTT.

They all be running to paraguay to join Ken Ley within 2 years :)

[SemperEadem]

191. I agree with you

It's the appearance of inpropriety which is the ball and chain around Murtha's neck. Had he not had so many issues on his ethics, he would have probably stood a far better chance. But once Pelosi threw down the gauntlet on cleaning up corruption and ethics issues, him winning his nomination wasn't going to fly. He is too much of a lightening rod for not only the right but for the right-controlled (aka MSM)media--the first thing they would have done was call the Dems hypocrits for nominating him in the face of what was stated last week by Pelosi. They'd have been shot dead in the gate before it opened.

[stepnw1f]

68. Stay the Course in Iraq

I assume the media's propaganda on Murtha worked again. Dems cave again?

[wisteria]

73. Yep. That and the Republican's backing Hoyer by bashing Murtha- strange isn't it? n/t.

[MADem]

87. I guess all those freshmen congressmen who were RECRUITED by Hoyer, and who

were given over a million bucks in campaign money, and who Hoyer actually campaigned with and helped get them elected...gee, that had NOTHING to do with it.

Hoyer's stellar performance as whip all these years, that went right over their heads, yeah?

The fact that Hoyer had locked down supporters well before Murtha even threw his hat in the ring, back in June, had nothing to do with it? The fact that the whip usually moves up, that too had no effect?

Murtha's recent insults about Pelosi's desires to move forward with an ethics-based agenda, that didn't impact the vote at all, eh?

You're saying our delegation are fools that are conned by the GOP, who cleverly pulled the strings behind the scenes. I say you have absolutely no clue how politics works on the Hill. The GOP may be enjoying this exercise in democracy, but they aren't running this show.

Murtha, who has never held a leadership job on the Hill EVER, decided it was now or never, and made a run for it--he lost. DECISIVELY.

The guy who has done the work, as Barney Frank said, got the job.

[wisteria]

114. You have proof that Hoyer "got in" and gave all the money to

freshman Dem's Seems like I recall many people contributing to the new congressman and the American people voting for change in Iraq.

[MADem]

128. Why yes, I do. Why don't you do a little research yourself before you

get in my face and demonstrate beyond any doubt that you are uninformed? It would save you looking foolish. But hey, let me do your homework FOR you:

This list is not complete; the actual total exceeds a MILLION:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.asp?strID=C00271338&Cycle=2006
AmeriPAC: The Fund for a Greater America
PAC Contributions to Federal Candidates
2006 Cycle
House Candidate Total Contribs
Arcuri, Michael (D-NY) $5,000

Barrow, John (D-GA) $10,000

Bean, Melissa (D-IL) $10,000

Bishop, Timothy H (D-NY) $10,000

Boswell, Leonard L (D-IA) $10,000

Boyd, Allen (D-FL) $2,500

Braley, Bruce (D-IA) $10,000

Burner, Darcy (D-WA) $10,000

Busansky, Phyllis H (D-FL) $10,000

Busby, Francine P (D-CA) $15,000

Carnahan, Russ (D-MO) $7,000

Carney, Chris (D-PA) $7,500

Craig, James W (D-NH) $7,500

Davis, Lincoln (D-TN) $10,000

Derby, Jill T (D-NV) $10,000

Donnelly, Joe (D-IN) $10,000

Duckworth, Tammy (D-IL) $10,000

Dunn, Tim (D-NC) $2,500

Edwards, Chet (D-TX) $10,000

Ellsworth, Brad (D-IN) $10,000

Evans, Lane (D-IL) $5,000

Farrell, Diane Goss (D-CT) $10,000

Filner, Bob (D-CA) $5,000

Filson, Steve N (D-CA) $2,500

Gillibrand, Kirsten E (D-NY) $10,000

Hafen, Tessa (D-NV) $10,000

Hare, Philip G (D-IL) $10,000

Herseth, Stephanie (D-SD) $10,000

Higgins, Brian M (D-NY) $10,000

Hill, Baron (D-IN) $10,000

Holden, Tim (D-PA) $10,000

Hooley, Darlene (D-OR) $10,000

Jennings, Christine (D-FL) $10,000

Johnson, Hank (D-GA) $5,000

Kellam, Phil (D-VA) $10,000

Kilroy, Mary Jo (D-OH) $10,000

Kleeb, Scott (D-NE) $2,500

Klein, Ron (D-FL) $10,000

Lampson, Nick (D-TX) $10,000

Larsen, Rick (D-WA) $10,000

Lindeen, Monica J (D-MT) $5,000

Lucas, Ken (D-KY) $10,000

Madrid, Patricia A (D-NM) $10,000

Mahoney, Timothy Edward (D-FL) $10,000

Marshall, Jim (D-GA) $12,500

Massa, Eric (D-NY) $7,500

Matheson, Jim (D-UT) $10,000

Matsui, Doris (D-CA) $5,000

Mejias, David L (D-NY) $5,000

Melancon, Charles J (D-LA) $15,000

Miller, Brad (D-NC) $5,000

Mitchell, Harry E (D-AZ) $10,000

Moore, Dennis (D-KS) $10,000

Murphy, Chris (D-CT) $10,000

Murphy, Lois (D-PA) $10,000

Murphy, Patrick J (D-PA) $5,000

Paccione, Angela Veronica (D-CO) $2,500

Perlmutter, Edwin G (D-CO) $10,000

Pomeroy, Earl (D-ND) $10,000

Salazar, John (D-CO) $10,000

Serrano, Jose E (D-NY) $5,000

Shuler, Heath (D-NC) $10,000

Sires, Albio (D-NJ) $5,000

Space, Zachary T (D-OH) $5,000

Spratt, John M Jr (D-SC) $10,000

Stender, Linda D (D-NJ) $10,000

Stuart, Charlie (D-FL) $6,000

Sutton, Betty Sue (D-OH) $5,000

Tinklenberg, Elwyn G (D-MN) $5,000

Towns, Edolphus (D-NY) $5,000

Weaver, John Michael (D-KY) $10,000

Welch, Peter (D-VT) $7,000

Wetterling, Patty (D-MN) $10,000

Wilson, Charlie (D-OH) $10,000

Woolsey, Lynn (D-CA) $5,000

Total to Democratic House Candidates: $627,500
Total to Republican House Candidates: $0

Steny even gave some dough to Senate hopefuls. Check the link to get that list.

Now, thinking ahead, I'm sure your first thought is "But I don't seeeeeeee Steny's name there." Well, this IS his PAC, and here's a link to demonstrate that beyond a shadow of a doubt: http://democraticwhip.house.gov/media/articles.cfm?pressReleaseID=115

That link, from 2004, shows clearly just HOW LONG he has been raising money for candidates and campaigning in rural districts. Read it, and read this one as well:

http://democraticwhip.house.gov/in_the_news/press_releases/index.cfm?pressReleaseID=1599
Moderate Democrats Endorse Hoyer
A group of 33 moderate Democrats sent out a Dear Colleague today supporting Steny Hoyer for Majority Leader. With this letter two-thirds of the Blue Dog Caucus has endorsed Hoyer.... John Tanner, Dennis Cardoza, Allen Boyd, Ellen Tauscher, Jim Matheson, Adam Smith, Joseph Crowley, Ron Kind
Melissa Bean, Earl Pomeroy, Bob Etheridge, Dennis Moore, Jim Costa, Jim Cooper, John Barrow, Dan Boren, Mike Ross, Charlie Melancon, Darlene Hooley, Mike McIntyre, Russ Carnahan, John T. Salazar, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, Stephanie Herseth, Lincoln Davis, David Scott, Steve Israel, Brian Higgins, Rick Larsen, Leonard L. Boswell, Jane Harman, Jim Marshall, Charles A. Gonzalez

And this: http://democraticwhip.house.gov/in_the_news/press_releases/index.cfm?pressReleaseID=1598
Ranking Members Endorse Hoyer for Majority Leader
REP. JOHN DINGELL
Ranking Member on the House Energy and Commerce Committee

REP. HENRY WAXMAN
Ranking Member on the House Government Reform Committee

REP. BARNEY FRANK
Ranking Member on the House Financial Services Committee

REP. TOM LANTOS
Ranking Member on the House International Relations Committee

REP. JIM OBERSTAR
Ranking Member on the House Transportation Committee

REP. BART GORDON
Ranking Member on the House Science Committee

REP. IKE SKELTON
Ranking Member on the House Armed Services Committee

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON
Ranking Member on the House Homeland Security Committee

REP. JOHN SPRATT
Ranking Member on the House Budget Committee

And this: http://democraticwhip.house.gov/in_the_news/press_releases/index.cfm?pressReleaseID=1600
Progressive Members Urge Other Progressives To Back Hoyer for Majority Leader
MAXINE WATERS
JERROLD NADLER
ELIJAH CUMMINGS
JOSE SERRANO
JESSE JACKSON
EMANUEL CLEAVER

Oh...and THIS: http://democraticwhip.house.gov/in_the_news/press_releases/index.cfm?pressReleaseID=1601
Majority of Freshman Class Supports Hoyer for Majority Leader

[cobaindrain]

75. another thing, Murtha is 74

maybe age played a part in this as well. not that hoyer is young but he's younger than murtha.

[Sturmrabe]

101. Much ado about nothing...

Though one could say that a lot about Washington/the media

[ChiciB1]

103. I Think It Did... I Voted For A Local Candidate Here Because He

was younger. Didn't know that much about either one of them, but decided to vote for the younger one all the same. So I understand that feeling.

Democrats KNOW they have to make it work, and I just heard that Rockefeller intends to "investigate" Iraq War spending and that's out there now. So, why don't we just cool our jets for now???

[iconoclastic cat]

84. BREAKING: DUers begin to eat each other! Blood is everywhere!

Oh, the irrelevance!

[MADem]

130. Jesus, you got that right. Either that, or

BREAKING: Shocking Number of Posters Have NO IDEA How Congress Conducts Leadership Elections! Many Foolishly Believe POLICY VIEWS Are Deciding Factor!

Oh, the humanity!!!!

:rofl:

If that were the case, Trent Lott would have been deep-sixed well before the Strom incident. The White House HATED that guy, because, notwithstanding his politics, he actually believed in separation of powers and the overriding responsibility of the Senate vis a vis advise/consent. They can't be happy to see him back as whip, that's for sure!

[IWantAChange]

89. Let's move on - Hell - we've survived with Dubyha as Prez for 6 years

not the best of periods but the country is still standing and ready for a major infusion of reason and HOPE.

[formercia]

94. This says it best:

h{img]

[Laura PourMeADrink]

120. who is that?

[tblue]

126. WHAT is that?

[formercia]

139. Peter Townshend of the band Who.

http://www.petetownshend.co.uk/


Us old farts used to listen to those ancient tunes.

[jobycom]

95. Good or bad, we now know the tools we have to work with. So....

let's get to work!

We need a Smilie in coveralls with a shovel over her shoulder.

[ChiciB1]

100. I Say... MSM Doesn't Have This Story To Carp About Anymore!

Let's just pull together, quit carping AND dissecting and give it some time! I doubt any of us can actually predict the future and it make all work out in the end!

I see no "dead bodies" yet and we have bigger fish to fry! One I can think of right now is how to STOP Carville and his MOUTH!!

I may have to eat my words, but I just can't DO Hillary and that's what he's ALL ABOUT!

[wisteria]

115. Now they will carp on Hoyer who is no angel. n/t

[sallyseven]

102. I am pissed as hell. What a bunch of jerks.

[oc2002]

104. K-street HOyer won the vote - DLC is back in bussness baby! Best congress money can buy$$$

I see massive victories in 08 for Republicans.

[katinmn]

111. We still have to watch them like hawks. Hoyer can be replaced

if the people demand it.

[Zodiak]

105. This was a triple stupid move, in my opinion.

1. Hoyer is a K Street Dem...he represent corporate interests and corporate power within the party. He will do nothing about corruption at all. He likes lobbying. He is not an official member of the DLC, but he has received funding from them on trips, his musings are posted on the DLC page, and he was endorsed to this position by the DLC.

2. Hoyer is "stay the course", which is very unpopular among Americans. Part and parcel to Hoyer's position on Iraq are civil liberties flying out the door, more dead American soldiers, and a mountain of debt that accomplishes nothnig for the American people, and much for military contractors.

3. Hoyer is Pelosi's political enemy, so he will be looking to slide a blade between her ribs at the first opportunity. So we start out with a dysfunctional leadership.


Gay rights, abortion, etc. will not be at issue in the Congress over the next two years, but the war in Iraq will, and so will lobbying and corporatism. We just elected a majority leader who is at odds with the American people on both of those issues. Not smart.

Of course, the other choice is a moderate Populist (social conservative/economic moderate) deep in special interest money with the media in full-attack mode on him.

We have got to do better than this when it comes to putting a leadership face on this party.

[oc2002]

110. Don't worry, the Republicans will regain the House and Senate in 08.

The dems in office just showed what a pile of crap they are.

[Zodiak]

149. Well, I wouldn't go as far as to say that.

But it was an error, imo.

[mhatrw]

118. I agree 100%. n/t

[Larry Allen]

106. work to do

This tells me that at least a third of house dems are genuinely anti-war. Who are the progressives working on the next round of primary challenges?

[peacetalksforall]

107. All DUers who support Kucinich's 10 point Iraq plan need to

help Kucinich by communicating with Congress and everywhere else.

It's time (for me) to learn as much about the DLC as possible. How could DUers who don't exactly admire the DLC organize to keep up on their progress or attempt to takeover the Party? I don't want a DLC Congress - I get depressed about everything I think is DLC. Sorry to hear Hoyer is DLC. I am hoping for much more. They can't ignore the other classes of people in the Party.

[Politicub]

112. So this means Pelosi won't be the first woman majority leader?

Typical male dominated society BS.

On edit - I read this too fast. This isn't a big deal at all.

I'm thrilled that Pelosi is speaker of the house!!! It wasn't really going Murtha's way to becoming majority leader, so I'm not surprised.

:bounce:

[jgraz]

117. Majority Leader is less interesting than House Intelligence Committee Chair

If Pelosi pushes in Alcee Hastings, the Repugs have their attack ads for 2008.

[mhatrw]

123. If Jane Harman gets it, it's war profiteering and scare mongering as usual.

[jgraz]

124. Ugh...and yet people blast me when I say we need to go after the DLC Dems

[chill_wind]

121. Pelosi miscalculated. She'll be fine. She'lll move on. We all can.

Work is waiting.

And you know, I know what the NYT said, and what WAPO said, and what a lot of people said about this contest, but not even those evil libruh'l rags like Salon and Rolling Stone tried to sugarcoat either one of them--- the man Murtha or Nancy's own strategic thinking about liberal perceptions and contrasts-- ie the utility of Murtha's (non-SF liberal) conservative "lunch-bucket appeal".

11/15/06, 3:42 pm EST
No More Murtha Nice Guy

My friend Michael Scherer over at Salon offers a perfectly pithy assessment of the man Pelosi has tapped for Democratic majority leader:

Murtha, a decorated Vietnam veteran, makes an unlikely ideological ally for the liberal Pelosi in just about every policy arena except for Iraq. For much of his career, he has quietly worked behind the scenes building up power as an appropriator of military pork. First elected in 1974, Murtha has one of the most conservative voting records for a House Democrat, is reliably pro-life and anti-gun-control, and is well-known for his ability to strike side deals with Republicans. He regularly sponsors the constitutional amendment to ban flag burning, voted to drill in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge, and is rated one of the most corrupt members of Congress by a liberal watchdog group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. In addition to his close ties to two prominent lobbying firms, Murtha has been dogged by his role in Abscam, an undercover government sting operation in 1980, during which he was videotaped being offered a bribe by an FBI agent posing as an Arab sheik. Murtha rebuffed the offer but left the door open for a later time.

I personally think, his ethical issues aside, Murtha offers a welcome contrast to Pelosi. Hoyer comes off as just another stuffed Armani suit. Murtha’s got lunchbucket appeal.

more: http://www.rollingstone.com/nationalaffairs/?p=802

P.S. I knew about a lot of that about anti-choice, pro-gun, pro-military defense pork amassing conservative Murtha already , that I was not onboard with as it was, but not about his ANWR oil drilling votes.

But decision made. Madam Speaker, we've now got an agenda to set and a lot big fish to fry. Let's do it.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

122. Personally, I don't like Hoyer or Pelosi. She seems stupid to

me. She has no political savy, INHO. Flame away.

[MCMetal]

132. What's in a name ?

Who and what in the hell is a "Steny" ??????????????? When your last name is already "Hoyer" , you should choose your kid's name a bit more judiciously ................

[PegDAC]

147. Probably a family name

on his mother's side...

[Martin Eden]

148. What's all the fuss about?

This is politics.

If there isn't competition for leadership positions, something is wrong.

If a Big Tent Party demands march-in-lockstep obeisance in these matters, something is wrong.

If everybody gets their undies in a bunch over the Murtha-Hoyer flap, then everybody needs to get some perspective.

The media talking heads blow some things out of proportion because their stock in trade is the short-attention-span-24-hour news-cycle. Unfortunately some other much bigger things get short shrift because the big perspective doesn't play well on infotainment news.

The Democrats need to convey some calm during these trumped-up storms and demonstrate that our government is now in the hands of mature adults who won't lose sight of what's important to the American people.

[nickshepDEM]

152. Good.

[Maryland Liberal]

153. Hoyer Wins!!!!

Its a great day for Maryland!!!

[SaveElmer]

173. Good choice...nt