Hoyer's mixed / weak record on health care issues

[OzarkDem]

His election may have cost us any hope of seeing real, comprehensive health care reform any time soon.

His record on breast cancer issues is F - same as the most conservative GOP'ers.

http://www.natlbcc.org/pdf/109th%20Congressional%20Record%20Pre%20Elections.pdf

http://www.natlbcc.org/pdf/vGuide04Final_108.pdf

His votes on other health care issues are mixed, voting in favor of improving access to affordable health care in some cases, but against some important bills.

http://www.issues2000.org/House/Steny_Hoyer_Health_Care.htm

Voted NO on capping damages & setting time limits in medical lawsuits. - good move

but

Voted NO on allowing suing HMOs, but under federal rules & limited award. - bad move

Voted NO on Prescription drug coverage under Medicare. - bad move

Voted NO on establishing tax-exempt Medical Savings Accounts. - good move

Voted NO on small business associations for buying health insurance. - good move

Voted YES on allowing reimportation of prescription drugs. - good move



It would be a stretch to expect him to work for a real, long term solutions to health care when he votes the DLC health care agenda. Weak and watered down.

IMHO, if pro-choice women supported him only because of his stand on abortion - then you also just voted against real health care reform for women. Abortion isn't the only health care issue.

[texpatriot2004]

1. Thanks for this post nm

[OzarkDem]

2. No problem

We have to keep this issue front and center or we'll soon be seeing the collapse of our health care system in the US.

[texpatriot2004]

3. Yes, it's a real problem for Americans nm

[BlueCaliDem]

4. I am pro-choice, but never supported Hoyer especially after he

...smeared Jack Murtha by releasing to the media a copy of the grainy video tape from 26 years ago.

Everybody knows, that abortion, like guns, will never be outlawed, so to vote against Democratic politicians based on their "pro-life" stance is just plain stupid.

Even Republican women don't want to outlaw abortion rights. It's just a wedge issue used by Republican corporate media to ramp up the base on both sides.

[texpatriot2004]

23. Well said. nm

[rinsd]

26. You said smear? How about this thread?

Which attacks Hoyer on heathcare as a nod to Murtha without mentioning that Murtha's record is worse.

And you say Hoyer released the video? Where you pull that factoid from? You are awarte who first started the ball rolling on Murtha's corruption issues were CREW and TPM, hardly DLC freindly venues.

There's alot of smearing all right and it ain't Hoyer doing it.

So glad to see you could care less about abortion because here is what Murtha has voted for

Voted YES on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions. (Apr 2005)
Voted YES on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime. (Feb 2004)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research. (Feb 2003)
Voted YES on funding for health providers who don't provide abortion info. (Sep 2002)
Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)
Voted YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion. (Jun 1999)
Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)

[BlueCaliDem]

33. Yeah, I said smear, and I've already seen that thread.

"And you say Hoyer released the video? Where you pull that factoid from?"

Matthews on yesterday's Hardball as Murtha sat right in front of him; confirming that it was, indeed, a staffmember of Hoyer's that released the 26 year old tape to the media; this morning in the Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer who also made mention of this to, I believe, Jonathan Alter who never refuted it.

If that 26 year old video wasn't released in order to smear John Murtha, why was it then released? For (ancient) history lessons?

" You are awarte who first started the ball rolling on Murtha's corruption issues were CREW and TPM, hardly DLC freindly venues.

Yeah, I'm aware. Melanie Sloan of CREW has strong ties with AIPAC. Steny Hoyer has strong ties with AIPAC (like Hawkish Jane Harmon of California). Melanie Sloan has admitted they've not done such an in-depth background check of Hoyer as they've done with Murtha.

I wonder why...?

Oh, and FYI? Murtha has ZERO ties with AIPAC.

As for TPM, I don't know. I just think it's strange that these groups have dug deep into Murtha's background without as much as touching the surface on Hoyer. In the very least, it's unfair. At worst, it's biased.

"There's alot of smearing all right and it ain't Hoyer doing it."

And yet, he's never come out to rebuke all that smearing, has he. I mean, before he called in his markers and won Majority Leader. Doesn't that strike you the least bit odd?

"So glad to see you could care less about abortion because here is what Murtha has voted for

Go back and read the heading of my post. What part of my being pro-choice didn't you get?

This isn't about whether or not Hoyer is pro-choice or not. That's a "wedge issue" because everyone knows a woman's right to choose will never be banned nationwide.

As the elections have shown, the reason why the Democrats have won against all odds (and redistricting) is because the majority of Americans are sick and tired of the war in Iraq, and want it to END.

Hoyer's stance was to "stay the course". He's on the wrong side of that hot issue, and he's never apologized for voting for the resolution like Murtha has. Only after he got his precious power position in the House did he come out saying we need to chart a different course. Still a pretty weak response, imnsho.

That's why I supported Murtha, and still stand behind him. I just think it's inexcusable for Hoyer to allow his staffmember to release that video tape smearing John Murtha.

That's the Republicans' job, NOT a Democrats, but then again, Hoyer believes his political career is more important than the building of a strong Democratic Party, or the reputation of a fellow Democrat.

That's why I dislike Hoyer so much.

[BlueCaliDem]

35. Self-Correcting my post....

There is NO EVIDENCE that the Hoyer camp was the source the rightwing rag The American Spectator used back in September to get the 26 year old ABSCAM video discrediting Rep. John Murtha.

On the other hand, there's NO EVIDENCE they weren't either, but I seriously doubt it.

I looked up the Hardball program transcripts of the program where I thought I'd heard, and saw that Matthews, in a rapid exchange, had affirmed that it was a member of the Hoyer staff who leaked the ABSCAM to the media.

I was wrong.

Nowhere does the transcript shows this.

For full transcript link here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15737141

My apologies to the winning Hoyer supporters for my unintentional misleading posts.

[k_jerome]

5. ha. too late now. we're doomed....

in all seriousness, time to get behind the majority leader.

[OzarkDem]

6. No thanks

not unless he gets behind me and the rest of Dem voters. He works for me, not the other way around.

[k_jerome]

7. oh, thats why you supported an anti-war right winger?...nt.

[OzarkDem]

10. Is school out today?

or are you home playing hooky?

[k_jerome]

12. i know it hurts. tip of the hat and better luck next time. nt.

[OzarkDem]

14. Sorry, but everyone has to pass my litmus test this year

Health care reform is one of the top problems in our country. Dems were elected this time around because most voters thought health care is a top priority. They'd do well to learn from Bush's lesson with Iraq. Ignore them at your peril.

Mr. Hoyer can either deal with it or get replaced. Same with any other DLC Dem. Your corporate lobbyist money won't protect you. Look how much it helped the GOP.

[k_jerome]

15. apparently...

minority rights and reproductive rights are not on your litmus test. sorry to hear that.

[OzarkDem]

16. You do sound like

the right wing teenagers on the mixed forums.

As I said in a previous post, this was slim pickings. Neither candidate was as good as they could have been. Dems can do much better and hopefully they will. Maybe some of the new talent will rise in leadership and give us better choices.

[k_jerome]

17. Well, the better man won. Lets move on. Good day. nt.

[OzarkDem]

18. And that's not saying much n/t

[k_jerome]

21. on that we can agree. nt.

[skipos]

8. Just as Murtha wouldn't have set the agenda for Democrats on choice

Hoyer isn't going to set the agenda for Democrats on health care.

[OzarkDem]

9. Nor should he hinder the agenda, either

or he will regret it.

[skipos]

11. Do you think the 150 people who voted for him agree with him on everything?

Do you think the 86 people who voted for Murtha agree with him on everything? No. Majority leader isn't the end all be all.

[OzarkDem]

13. He has power over how legislation moves, though

and we will be watching how he wields power on this important issue.

[Katzenjammer]

19. He's not the problem. It wouldn't have happened anyway.

As long as the guys who own the insurance companies aren't on the verge of being strung up at a lamp post, Congress won't do squat. They'll dick around, posture, and maybe do what Romney tried to do in Mass: force everyone to guarantee profits by requiring everyone to buy insurance.

But they WILL NOT do single-payer healthcare. The current debacle is just too damned profitable.


Don't kid yourselves. We are not going to get anything substantive out of this "Dem-controlled Congress". Maybe if Cynthia and Dennis were running things, but not as things stand. From these twerps we're going to get the usual posturing and bloviation, the tough talk and the wimpy sellouts.

The very fact that they let Lieberlouse grab them by the gonads should tell us all we need to know. They should have told him "Joe, you lost. Now if you don't sit down and STFU, we're going to see that you never again hold any kind of office whatsoever. And if you really piss us off, Joey, we'll see that you get a visit from Guido and Nunzio and you'll live on soup the rest of your life which will definitely feel a lot longer than six weeks."

You watch: when the 2008 election is upon us, we still won't have healthcare, we still won't have the Bill of Rights back, people will still be dying by the hundreds every day in Iraq, and we still will be on the road to mammalian extinction.

[OzarkDem]

20. Dems don't have a choice

They will need to deal with this issue in a substantive way and show some real progress or they will have some real problems in 2008. Trying to lower voters expectations by arguing that everyone is too afraid of the big insurance companies isn't going to get them any traction.

Its time to suck it up and get the job done.

[Katzenjammer]

32. Sure it's time. It's long past time. But those craven, sellout f*cks still don't get it

They just don't get that they're in office only because the GOP was so utterly HORRIBLE. They think that's a strategy, for Goddess's sake! Do nothing and rely on the fact that the GOP are even WORSE.

They will indeed have "some real problems in 2008". But ours will be worse.

[filer]

22. As an eighteen year survivor...

of Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, I've outlived my life expectancy three times now. With a little luck and the Lord willing, I might continue my expensive private insurance another few years before exceeding policy limits. After that, I'm on my own. I'd prefer not to die in poverty, so universal health care is a huge issue for me.

Thanks, OzarkDem for your continued efforts and attention to this most important issue for all Americans, affordable health care.

[OzarkDem]

24. Glad to do it

9 yr breast cancer survivor, here. I have insurance, but I know how easy it is to lose it and how dangerously close the insured are coming to having our consumer protections undermined. That's why I was encouraged to see that Hoyer had opposed AHP's. But there are a lot of snake oil salesmen out there lobbying our legislators.

[rinsd]

25. Let's see Murtha's record for comparison (HINT, Hoyer's is BETTER!)

First off you cut this off from Hoyer

Hoyer scores 100% by APHA on health issues
The American Public Health Association (APHA) is the oldest and largest organization of public health professionals in the world, representing more than 50,000 members from over 50 occupations of public health. APHA is concerned with a broad set of issues affecting personal and environmental health, including federal and state funding for health programs, pollution control, programs and policies related to chronic and infectious diseases, a smoke-free society, and professional education in public health.

Here's Murtha's record http://www.ontheissues.org/PA/John_Murtha.htm

Voted NO on denying non-emergency treatment for lack of Medicare co-pay. (Feb 2006)
Voted YES on limiting medical malpractice lawsuits to $250,000 damages. (May 2004)
Voted NO on limited prescription drug benefit for Medicare recipients. (Nov 2003)
Voted YES on allowing reimportation of prescription drugs. (Jul 2003)
Voted NO on small business associations for buying health insurance. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on capping damages & setting time limits in medical lawsuits. (Mar 2003)
Voted NO on allowing suing HMOs, but under federal rules & limited award. (Aug 2001)
Voted NO on Prescription drug coverage under Medicare. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on banning physician-assisted suicide. (Oct 1999)
Voted NO on establishing tax-exempt Medical Savings Accounts. (Oct 1999)

Rated 89% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record. (Dec 2003)

I think you owe Hoyer an apology.

[OzarkDem]

27. No apology, its not a relevant endorsement

and it has little to do with access to affordable health care or health insurance.

Public Health professionals work in the area of prevention. They're the people who tell you not to smoke, use sunscreen, get your vaccinations and eat fruits and vegetables. They gather statistics and issue reports. They're not considered experts on access to health care, or health insurance, prescription medications, or reforming the health care system. They will probably be the first to tell you so.

Murtha's record on health care reform issues isn't important either, except in his current capacity as a legislator. He wasn't the one elected, Hoyer was. He's the one we have to hold accountable as Majority Leader, the one who has a greater ability to influence the legislative agenda and process.

This is a litmus test we have to give all of our Dem leaders.

[rinsd]

28. So what about the Murtha votes?

No comment?

[OzarkDem]

30. Just edited my post

to include comments about Murtha votes.

Speaking from personal knowledge, I know Murtha has been willing to go above and beyond the call of duty to advance important health care legislation.

Some examples are in this bio


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/contributors/bio.php?nick=rep-john-murtha&name=Rep.+John+Murtha

[warrens]

29. He's just the assistant

He doesn't set policy, he lines up votes and calls meetings.

[OzarkDem]

31. He lines up votes

As I said in an earlier post, he is not the only Congressional leader whose record on health care issues will be under scrutiny.

Leaders have the ability to make things happen, or not, in Congress. They can use their influence with other members to negotiate deals that keep good legislation with popular support from coming to the floor for a vote and they can use it to move poor legislation through the Congress under the radar, with little public notice.

Anyone who has lobbied hard for a good bill to be introduced and co-sponsored only to see it get held up for years in committee knows how Congressional leaders can influence this process, even sometimes thwarting the will of a majority of members. If we are to see meaningful health care reform, we have to understand all the people in Congress who have their hands on the levers and what their record of support has been on health care issues.

[cali]

34. Why do you count Hoyer's vote against medicare's prescription

benefit as a bad sign? Almost all dems voted against it because it was a terrible bill and a big giveaway to drug companies. Dems wanted to invest medicare with the power to negotiate drug prices. Repubs didn't. That vote was kept open for hours, and passed only after repuke tactics were employed that went far beyond strong arming. His vote against that bill should be a plus.