So, I went to see James Carville interviewed by Stephanie Miller last night.

[PlanetBev]

I have to admit, he's pretty funny in person. I don't know who made me laugh more, Stephanie and Cueball.

Anyway, Steph asked him about the Howard Dean comments. He was pretty passionate in his reply. He said a number of Republican congressman taunted him about leaving a dozen seats for them. That's how many Republicans won by just 1% point. Carville felt that Dean should have spent the rest of the six million dollars left on these close races, that you never leave anything on the table in a historic battle like this.

He asked the audience of 300 people, how many of them thought that Kerry ran a good campaign. Not surprisingly, not one hand went up. He talked about Kerry holding back, including keeping millions in reserve, as well.

Steph told Carville that she thought that Dean was and is very courageous. Carville did not dispute that. He did make the case to the audience that politics is warfare and that you have to fight down to the last man and dollar.

[Robbien]

1. Oh bull.

Dean’s strategy of putting money into state party infrastructure takes money out of the pockets of Washington insiders away from Democratic consultants and key congressional party activists(i.e. James Carville).

Greed.

[talk hard]

2. He's right ... You have to fight down to the last man and dollar.

Holding back is stupid for any reason.

[madfloridian]

9. Did not hold back. Carville was not telling the truth.

See my post below...looking for more now.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ret5hd]

20. Carville and his consulting firm Greenberg Carville Shrum (GCS)...

was hired by the oligarchy in Venezuela to help oust Chavez, was hired by the oligarchy in Bolivia to keep Evo Morales from getting elected, has done work in Mexico, Israel, South Africa, etc etc etc...everywhere the corporatist neo-cons needed a hand, Carville was there.

Carville is a neo-con corporatist scumbag. Money is his god.

[madfloridian]

21. Wow.."humping people's legs"..."hard on"? "up his ass?" Out of line.

Totally.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

25. Those words are way more than acceptable.

You have done this to me all night here. I have posted quite fair stuff.

From your post:

"Why do you keep humping peoples legs to get your point across? There isnt about truth, its analysis, thats his opinion, big deal. The guy's an old fart and you have a hard on about climbing up his ass. Get a life."

[last1standing]

27. This isn't freeperville.

We usually ask for a little respect toward each other here. Why don't you try that and see if you get some in return.

[talk hard]

28. 10 of 26 posts are his/hers

saying the same damn thing, thats pretty disrespectful.

You may be ok with him/her telling you how to think all the time, but not me. I find THAT disrespectful.

[last1standing]

29. It's also disrespectful of you to spew such hatred at others.

Especially when they haven't provoked you. If you don't like Madfloridian's posts, then you can always put her on ignore. The rules of the forum forbid the type of personal insults you're hurling and the rest of us generally don't want they kind of thing fouling up the board. We come here to debate politics, not engage in some pre-pubescent name calling match.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[last1standing]

32. Did she specifically tell YOU to think something?

No, she posted links and opinions just like everyone else here does. If she comes across strongly then letting her know that is fine, comparing her with a dog fucking a leg is not. But instead of correcting her, you decided to insult her. There was no context to derive from your posts, just the fact that you seem to enjoy childish insults.

By the way, most of us here are intelligent enough not to be insulted that someone else has an opinion different from ours. In fact that's why we're here. We don't immediately think the other person is forcing their opinion on us and we don't become hateful. Try it sometime and see what happens.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

36. I posted your quote.

I posted what you said. It is not true. I also posted the dog-humping and hard on stuff. I have nothing to say about your comments, just that now I have a record.

YOur comment:
"It's very clear if you don't hate the right people and don't love the right people here you don't fit in. I've been reading these boards for over two years. Don't even come off trying to act like this is an open discussion board when you defend someone like her who works overtime trying to shove her opinion down peoples throats. Ive seen her work, twisting things and insisting you believe her version of the way things go down.

You are obviousloy fine with group think and come off like you think you are superior for it, but I'm not buying it. Nope. Thanks anyway."

[last1standing]

40. You post pure hatred and obscenities then want people to listen to you.

Madfloridian isn't the issue here, your vile behavior is. If you want to be an attack dog sniffing around for a fight where you can use the vocabulary of an elementary school hoodlum, there are plenty of other places on the internet for you. As it stands, you're breaking DU rules and the rules of common civility.

And you don't have to buy anything I say, you just have to follow DU guidelines and that means not insulting the other members of DU. Is that so difficult to understand that you have to post four times about it?

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[last1standing]

43. So now you're going to make up things I never said? Very mature.

I never told you to go elsewhere, I said there are other places more suited to your style of conversation. As for civility, I'm not likely to take lessons from the kind of person who'd close their post with "Run along, Sonny". I do have better standards for my education than that, I hope.

Now to the real issue, you edited your post then continued to be hateful and insulting. That doesn't work for most people here. When someone comes on this board and begins attacking long standing members with immature obscenities, some of us get a bit protective. If you want to call that a clique, that's fine with me, but I'm not going to sit by and let you viciously attack a decent person (the one you just called "Wasserface", if you've already forgotten). Madfloridian has posted thousands of threads here that have managed to be a bit more informative than http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2976778#2976789">"ha ha you said Nader" or the beautifully worded http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2975783#2977201">"NYers don't foget hes an idiot", yet you feel you have the integrity to attack her for posting on real issues in an intelligent manner.

I'd like to point out that I've been able to continue this sub thread without once actually insulting you. It's a shame you don't seem to have the same ability.

[madfloridian]

33. I am a her. People see what you are doing.

I don't need to say anymore to you.

[MichiganVote]

3. So Dean is bad because Carville was ridiculed by republicans?

God what a bunch of asshats there are in Washington and Carville is the lead Democratic jackass. Another TV personality fighting against deserved obscurity.

[madfloridian]

4. That has been totally debunked by the bloggers.

It was Rahm who goofed, and they have done the research to prove that there were only about 4 total where this could be true.

There is post at Kos on it. Also MyDD. You may find it under the tag Rahm. Or I may have it on my hotlist.

Carville did not tell the truth, and he needs to be corrected.

[madfloridian]

5. PlanetBev, you need to research this.

At Kos or MyDD..Carville was wrong.

[aquart]

7. Or lying.

[madfloridian]

6. In fact, I will see if I can find the posts to show you. He had it wrong.

When people are that wrong they need to be corrected. I will check now.

[madfloridian]

8. Here is the Hotline blog....debunking it. Carville was wrong.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/11/the_carville_cl.html

Read it carefully. I have more, but did not put them on my hotlist, must search.

This should be enough.

[flpoljunkie]

48. Last minute robocalling effected outcome in 2 dozen close races and was not effectively countered-

primarily because it came at the last minute. There was some discussion of these robocalling on the cable news show, but it mostly happened under the radar, and was an effective RNC dirty trick to trash Democrats. And more last minute money from Dean, obviously would have done stopped this RNC/ Rovian dirty trick.

The only answer is legislation to make robocalling a crime, and the Democrats have already said they would introduce such a bill next year when they take control.

[davidinalameda]

10. maybe I can borrow Carville's crystal ball

I need lottery numbers

I don't think that anyone could have predicted the outcome of this election and I think that the DCCC did a damn good job

[Kagemusha]

11. Hey, just asking... did Hillary fight down to the last dollar?

Did Kerry?

Did Bayh?

Or is it only the DNC which is supposed to fight to the last dollar because the deeper it is in debt, the easier it can be shoved aside.

[msongs]

12. does that include dumping his wife? nt

[davidwparker]

13. "He talked about Kerry holding back, including keeping millions"

Not the same.

We didn't know about Kerry's millions until after the concession.

Did Cueball mention that Emmanuel left many progressives unfunded? I believe Kos did a recent analysis of how it was the candidate, not throwing gobs of money at a campaign that was key.

Cueball is trying to clear the deck for Hillary.

[dogman]

14. Perhaps he should seek refuge in his trash can.

It seems we have made a lot of progress since he did that stunt following a prior election run by his cronies. The GOPers were taunting all of us then.

[madfloridian]

15. Another link:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/598

DEAN RESPONDS Via TNR, Howard Dean spokeswoman Karen Finney emails the following in response to James Carville's comments below:

"After the Republicans have admitted to a thumping, why is it that the only one complaining on the Democratic side is James Carville, who today in addition to trashing Howard Dean, praised the RNC, the outfit that brought us the racist ad that defeated Harold Ford, James' supposed candidate for Chair? Perhaps he's not aware that under Dean in this midterm election the DNC has raised record cash --- all hard dollars -- including three times as much from major donors, eight times as much online and made a $30 million investment in the '06 cycle, three times as much as the DNC put into the last midterm. Not to mention we made an $8m overhaul of our voter file which was successfully used in 47 states and through the 50 state strategy invested in states like Pennsylvania, Kansas, Indiana and Montana where we had critical victories on Tuesday."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/10/135231/90

[beachmom]

17. And had 60,000 votes in Ohio gone differently, Kerry's campaign

would have been "brilliant". That guy's attitude just really annoys me big time.

[DemBones DemBones]

46. Yes, and we have good reason to believe Ohio was

stolen, like Florida in 2000, with Kenneth Blackwell playing the part of Katherine Harris.

[madfloridian]

18. Carville is a rude and insulting man to fellow Democrats.

He does not have their best interests at heart.

[madfloridian]

19. Even more fighting back with truth from the DNC

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/642

"In an interview with All Headline News (AHN) DNC Communications director Karen Finney says strategist and pundit James Carville "got the facts wrong" when he said Democrats could have won more races if they had put more money into the fight.

Finney says the DNC knew 2006 would be "very important" and spent $30 million on campaigns, up from the $9.8 million they spent in 2002. (Up to 30 million from 9.8? Wait...there's more)

Carville, one of the leading Democratic strategists and a sharp voice within the party says Democrats could have won as many as 50 seats in the House, yet Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic Party, never authorized the necessary campaign spending. Yet, Finney contends Carville "simply doesn't know the facts about what the DNC did in this election. In addition to the $30 million we put into the '06 races, the DNC happily did take out a <$10 million> loan because Governor Dean is committed to helping Democrats win."

More at the link. Rahm tried to blame Dean even for Duckworth's losing.
That was the most cruel thing that bunch did. Rahm spent close to half a million against Cegelis in that race...a fellow Democrat who had a ground game.

The battle has started. This bunch of Democrats have media access, and they are at it now. We will fight them.

[MannyGoldstein]

23. Has Mrs. Clinton Distanced Herself From Carville's Frothing Crap?

No? Odd.

BTW, Mrs. Clinton spent several tens of millions simply running up the score in NY - she could have given that to the "close races" that Carville is yammerin' about. Has Carville been criticizing her for that? No? Odd.

[creeksneakers2]

44. Hillary said the Clintons didn't sign off on it

Since the Clintons are not involved in Carville's crusade I see no reason why they must distance themselves.

[John Q. Citizen]

24. The DNC had a six million line of credit, they didn't have the cash on hand.

[DemBones DemBones]

47. An important distinction. nt

[last1standing]

26. Awww....Did the big, bad repubs tease poor widdle carville?

If carville's not man enough or witty enough to handle himself when being "taunted" by losers spouting bullshit, then he's not the man to listen to about our political future. What carville doesn't mention is that the DNC took out loans to get cash to both the DSCC and the DCCC a week before the election. He also doesn't mention that the six million dollars available for loan would have been very necessary in the care of provable voter fraud. How does carville think the DNC would have been able to pay for that if they had spent that last 6 mill.?

In other words, carville isn't advocating fighting down to the last dollar, he's advocating blowing it all in a big push and leaving the men in the field with no ammunition for later operations. So we win the battle then have our side lose because the other side has all the ammo.

Who ever considered this idiot to be a real strategist? He got lucky riding on Clinton's coat tails in '92 and now we can't get rid of him.

[buddysmellgood]

31. He's a divisive gravy-train pundit.

[sandnsea]

34. Kill Dean, Kill Kerry, Kill the Hillary opposition

That's all they're about.

[Trajan]

37. I think he is right about spending all you have ...

and fighting to the last man ....

Yeah .. I dont like his corporate slant, but the argument still holds ...

Perhaps they COULD have taken more seats ....

Still ... Im pleased with the results : This could have been dealt more rationally and less stridently ...

I blame Carville for being impolitic ....

[madfloridian]

39. Did you read my posts about the debunking?

Carville was skewing the facts. Carville did not get the financial facts straight before attacking Dean.

That is the job of Rahm and Chuck to spend it all....Dean has all the state directors to keep paying. I mean let's be fair. Read my posts debunking.

[survivor999]

38. Saving money for the next round is not bad either.

You get what you need, when you need it.

[Elidor]

41. Here's a thought

If Carville had ever done as well as Dean has, he'd still be running campaigns today.

[DoYouEverWonder]

45. Someone needs to ask Carville how many seats did he take back

from the Repugs? Especially all the ones he lost after Clinton got elected to the WH.