Rangel is WRONG about the draft.

[Cascadian]

Sorry, Congressman Rangel . I cannot agree with you in your plan to start up the draft. Your argument is to implement the draft you will "deter the war hawks". Congressman, the war is already unpopular and bringing back the draft will only backfire on the Democrats. You will only encourage Bush and the Neocons to further stay the course and even worse, a possible invasion of Iran. The bottom line is won't work and the Republicans will use it against us. It is best we find another solution. Conscription is not the answer. I will not support it and anybody else with a brain won't either. In fact, I will call on anybody who has draft-age kids to defy this misguided idea.


SAY NO TO THE DRAFT!


John

[joemurphy]

1. It has about a snowball's chance in hell of passing..

Personally, I have no problems with universal national service. Rangel's probably right about our needing one. The volunteer army can't meet manpower needs and having civilian input in the military isn't such a bad idea.

[Cascadian]

10. It won't be civilian input, it will be unwilling men and maybe women....

all going in lockstep to certain slaughter. Do you honestly think Bush would just keep all of them stateside? This is going to be a very, very divisive issue among Democrats and I would rather it not be a Pandora's Box. I will refuse to support and will fight it as much as I can.



John

[Ninja Jordan]

36. Then why give the GOP an opportunity to use it as a talking point against us?

[lligrd]

2. Rangel's Plan Has Another Option

You don't have to do military service just service to the country. And there are no exemptions except for medical (which hopefully doesn't include anal cysts this time). I think it is a brilliant plan and I have been against this war from day one and have an 18 year old.

[Cascadian]

6. I sitll have a bad feeling about this.

The right-wing spinsters are masters at their craft. Do not underestimate the Neocons. They will play this to the hilt and make an excuse for Bush to use the draftees for another war.


jOHN

[patrice]

20. That's my basic concern. How would we ever stop them if they have a Draft?

Peace Corps, or Public Works Service limited to the continental U.S. and nowhere else would have to be available only with absolute exclusion of changing to non-conUS military service, and vice versa. Otherwise it will be meaningless when people start switching back and forth, for career moves etc.

[rocktivity]

7. "Just service to the country"--yeah, right

The very kind of kids who got out of going to Viet Nam will be the ones who get to gobble up those "service to the country" slots. The poorer kids will end up in military service, and the problem will be perpetuated.

Knock it off, Charlie. Everyone knows you're bluffing--and if the Rethugs decide call us on it, we're dead in the water for '08. Wait until we're out of Iraq AND have a Democrat commander-in-chief.

:headbang:
rocknation

[aquart]

19. Got it. You would not have volunteered after Pearl Harbor.

And every kind of young man had a draft number for Viet Nam. I knew many of them.

And damn straight they didn't want to go.

Which is why the draft was abolished. So now our fighting is done by privatized mercenaries and a permanent underclass of soldiers. Who will always be separate and apart from the rest of us. What part of that is not a recipe for disaster?

If we won't fight our own wars, we will never win anything of any kind again.

[babylonsister]

9. Welcome to DU, lligrd!

:toast: Rangel's draft talk sure got everyone's attention. I'm glad he's started a dialogue about it; might wake some people up.

[lligrd]

15. Thank You

Not really new been lurking since the beginning. Actually had another sign on but forgot username and password and couldn't sign up again till I got a new email address. Never felt much need of posting in here since I agree with you guys on nearly everything.

[Art_from_Ark]

32. Would you have thought it a brilliant plan when YOU were 18?

Just asking.

[democracyindanger]

3. That's exactly

what he wants to happen. The chickenhawks would suddenly become quiet if there was a chance they'd have to put their ass on the line.

[Kire]

4. Didn't he vote against his own bill?

I think his point was to get it put up for a vote so people will be on the record about it. I don't remember the whole picture, but he had always planned to vote against it.

[katinmn]

5. I support it as long as there are no exemptions for people like Cheney

It is too easy for people to distance themselves from the war right now.

They don't care that 200,000 people are caught up in an endless cycle of stop-loss. Some are going back four to Iraq and Afghanistan four and five times. If they don't get killed or maimed they will still mentally suffer from this illegal war for the rest of their lives.

[longship]

8. But he's absolutely correct about bringing it up now.

Rangel doesn't necessarily want to reinstitute the draft, he wants to have a debate on the completely shabby condition of our military under Shrub's rule. Talking about the draft is merely the way to get the dialog going.

Make no mistake about this--the last thing ChimpCo wants Congress discussing is their failures in supporting the troops. And make no mistake about this--talking about a military draft is going to reveal all sorts of bad, bad, bad things about this.

Cut Rangel some slack. He knows exactly what he is doing.

[primative1]

27. I hope so.

Rangel never impressed me as being a fool and I do hope he knows what he is doing because talking about the draft is a lot like hearing fingernails screeching on a blackboard.

[bluestateguy]

11. He should be removed from his committee chairmanship

I have had enough with his stupid ass stunts.

[benddem]

25. you aren't thinking clearly

he has been talking about this since the invasion of Iraq. It isn't going to go anywhere, but talking about it does point out the unfairness about what is going on now. My nieces kids are 9 and 10 if they had to worry about them being drafted and sent to Iraq in 8 years...you can bet they wouldn't support this administration.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. It also scares the shit out of 18-25 year olds who don't follow politics closely

All that needs to get my age group to vote for the GOP in the next election is for Fox News to convince them that Democrats want to bring back the draft.

[Vorta]

12. There will never be a draft until the military drops the gay policy

In 1965 most gay men and nearly all straight men were afraid to say 'I'm a homosexual and willing to prove it" and have that on their permanent record. In 2006, virtually no one would bat a well mascaraed eyelash at using homosexual identification as a way to refuse to serve either for political reasons or because they don't want to serve.

And there wouldn't be much that the military could do about it, because all their tricks, including their favorite "You are not a homosexual and if you do anything like that you will go to prison and have your life ruined." routine have been exposed.

[patrice]

13. I've been thinking about this. It isn't worth the gamble, that could result

in the Draft actually being reinstated. We'd never stop them then.

[aquart]

14. He's absolutely right.

If there's fighting to be done, the burden should fall on everyone of us, not just those too poor to find anything else.

Say YES to the draft.

[patrice]

23. It isn't right for the poor to be War Slaves, therefore it isn't right for

anyone else to be War Slaves. You can't have one without the other. If Slavery is Wrong for Anyone, it is wrong for Everyone.

[Azathoth]

37. Since when did the draft neutralize the disparity between rich and poor?

Last time there was fighting to be done, the poor got drafted and the rich got deferments.

[fuzzyball]

16. I would like to see all the Freepers drafted and sent to Iraq

and the draft could be a wonderful opportunity for
all the Duers to experience army life.

[OneBlueSky]

17. if a draft proposed and supported by Democrats is enacted . . .

Democrats will be blamed by all the parents and families whose children end up in war zones -- some never to return, others to return with horrific injuries . . . it may be a good idea conceptually, but it would be political suicide . . .

[Cascadian]

18. Didn't anybody forget what happened in the late 60's?

This particular issue as well as Vietnam severely divided the Democrats and look what happened? Do you want to revisit this crap again? This is exactly what you will get if the draft returns. You will have anti-war, anti-draft Democrats and pro-war, pro-draft Democrats at each other's throats. For those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. If the draft does go forward, this will be a worse division. Why? Because the stakes are too high plus the Republicans still have power. They could use this issue to their advantage and win for keeps.


John

[aquart]

21. We don't have to do anything. THEY are the ones who need the draft.

They are the ones who destroyed what army we have.

But the solution to Viet Nam was not abolishing the draft. Obviously. Because here we are again.

[Cascadian]

22. Then let the Neocons reinstate it!

If the Democrats reinstate this then we all might as well call it day. Because it will backfire!

John

[lligrd]

24. Just Checked With My 18 Year Old Son

who joined me on the anti-war protests and he thinks it is a great idea - as long as one gets the choice of civilian service instead and no one is exempted. That is Rangel's plan I believe. Nobody could be made to join the military. Not to worry anyway becasue it will never happen. The cons are imploding at the mere suggestion of their kids being forced to serve anywhere.

[jannyk]

26. I think 2 years national service is a good thing

as long as it is appled equally to every socio/economic class - NO exemptions. No - "I'm in college so I can't go" - uhuh - you go serve first, then you can go to college. It should apply to women too, just as it does in Israel.

We'd be out of Iraq lickety split and would think long and hard before starting another war of choice. The SOB's want war? Fine, their child/grandchild gonna be in the thick of it. We wouldn't even be in Iraq if we'd had a draft in 2002/03. Just imagine a couple of million Cindy Sheehans bearing down on the WH.

[Cascadian]

34. We are not Israel.

The only time I can see a draft is if we have been directly attacked or invaded by another country. Then the debate is off the table. In the case of illegals wars and certain death, then forget it! This is exactly what you will have in new reinstated draft especially under Bush.


John

[sillyparty]

28. You are really delusional

Bush will start a war, draft or no draft, that should be plainly obvious to everyone.

And the fact you worry about it backfiring on the Dems. Wow. You admit you are only interested in the politics. So I should quit reading anything you say. But let us continue.

What you and the delusional don't get. Everyone in this war has been lied to. Maybe three people signed up to go to Iraq.

So everyone there is dying for a lie.

So let's let every family in America see how it feels to die for a lie.

Let's let every American see what it feels like to live in a Country, like Iraq to enter a war you didn't ask for.

So sorry America, you asked for it.

Maybe next time you will pay attention when a dictator starts a war. Maybe when your family is on the line, you won't believe the lies.

Thank You, Rangel. And ignore these here that only care about themselves and the Democratic Party.

[Cascadian]

29. Delusional....OH PLEASE

Try not to make it a personal thing, okay? You don't agree with me then fine but why don't you think through things before you follow somebody, okay? I have done just that and my opinion says it is the wrong step. This does not make me delusion as you so imply. I also will not agree with every stinking thing a Democrat supports like backing the Iraq war resolution that some Democrats or DINOs have. I will be free to praise or criticize anybody I feel like that warrants my opinion. Don't like it? Tough beans!


John

[Zhade]

30. He's sending the message that the illegal war is okay to fight.

He's reinforcing lies by doing this.

Doesn't he know that?

[Cascadian]

31. That's another thing too.

He will only be justifying Bush's illegal war by bringing this draft out. What good will that do?



John

[rep the dems]

33. I can't believe a Democrat is supporting this.

Pathetic.

[Cascadian]

35. I am beginning to feel like I am one of only a few people....

who can see this is not going to work. I see lemmings jumping off the cliff in this one.

It's disturbing.


John

[Azathoth]

38. You're not the only one

It's only been two weeks and some Dems already seem eager to begin planning their next loss.

Sigh.

[sampsonblk]

40. In Rangel's defense

An open discussion about a draft keeps the subject of Iraq in the news, and will cause a lot of pro-war folks to give it some more serious thought. Good news, as long as it doesn't pass.