Rangel doesn't want the draft, he wants the DEBATE

[jgraz]

Rep. Rangel has introduced this bill at least twice before. Here's what he had to say about it in 2003, before the war in Iraq began:

Rangel Introduces Bill to Reinstate Draft

The New York Democrat told reporters his goal is two-fold: to jolt Americans into realizing the import of a possible unilateral strike against Iraq, which he opposes, and "to make it clear that if there were a war, there would be more equitable representation of people making sacrifices."

"I truly believe that those who make the decision and those who support the United States going into war would feel more readily the pain that's involved, the sacrifice that's involved, if they thought that the fighting force would include the affluent and those who historically have avoided this great responsibility," Rangel said.

"Those who love this country have a patriotic obligation to defend this country," Rangel said. "For those who say the poor fight better, I say give the rich a chance."

Rangel also introduced a draft bill during the 2004 election. Both times the bills went nowhere. He knew they would go nowhere, just like he knows that this one will go nowhere. But by introducing these bills, he was able to grab a news cycle and focus attention on the inequities of sacrifice that surround this war.

And for those of you freaking out that this bill will cost us the House in 2008, answer me this: how much of an effect did the previous two bills have on this most recent election?

[Mythsaje]

1. Oh, I have less of an issue with what Rangel's doing

than I do with DUers who stand up and shout "YES, we need a draft."

ONLY if we want to give them more of our kids to shove into the next fucking rathole.

I vote NO.

[pnwmom]

6. But isn't Rangel doing the same thing?

He says he is making this proposal very seriously.

[Mythsaje]

8. Like the last couple times?

IF he's doing it to spark debate, I have issues with it. IF he means it, I have even MORE issues with it.

[still_one]

2. Rangel is an IDIOT

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061120/ap_on_go_co/military_draft

and frankly if the Democratic party goes along with this shit they will have lost my support

[pnwmom]

4. Mine, too.

I didn't contribute my time and money to the Dems so that they could draft my children.

[still_one]

7. agreed

[pnwmom]

3. That was then. NOW he says he's entirely serious about the proposal.

The American people don't want a debate. We want to get out of Iraq, period.

Watch Bush and the neo-cons take Rangel up on his proposal. They need a draft to follow through on their megalomanical dreams. Thanks to Rangel, they might be able to have their draft and yet the American public will blame the Democrats for it.

Brilliant idea, Rangel. Give Bush cover for the draft he always wanted. Make it a bi-partisan project.

:sarcasm:

[still_one]

5. I hope your "sarcasm" means you think rangel is off is rocker?

you don't play games with our kids lives.

This is bullSh*t

mccain also has floated similar ideas around, and this is more than a debate...

"Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, has said the all-volunteer military disproportionately puts the burden of war on minorities and lower-income families.

Rangel said he will propose a measure early next year. While he said he is SERIOUS ABOUT THE PROPOSAL, there is little evident support among the public or lawmakers for it."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061120/ap_on_go_co/military_draft

rangel can bite me

[pnwmom]

24. My sarcasm means I think it's an idiotic idea.

I'm not a psychiatrist so I can't testify about his sanity. Perhaps there are political points for him to make within his District.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

9. As I stated before....

Why should we have conscription

for Bush depleting our army? To me this seems a little like kissing GW's ass for pissing all over us.

[jgraz]

10. OMG -- is anyone still thinking?

How, exactly, to you see this bill passing? Which Republicans are going to "take Rangel up on his offer"? Do you really believe that a bill to reinstate the fucking draft will get a majority in either house?? Check on the last time the House voted on this: there were only two Yea votes, and neither one of them was Charlie Rangel!

That's right, he voted against his own bill.

This is the "shame" bill that turns things around on the Repugs who forced a vote on an immediate pullout last year. They can't vote for it or they'll be kicked out of office by their rich constituents. And if they vote against it, it gives Rangel the ammunition he needs to show that the GOP is just fine with sending poor kids into the meat grinder.

There's a difference between "playing games with your kids' lives" and playing games for your kids' lives. Rangel's been around long enough that he knows how this game is played -- and he's playing it well.

If all this really makes you pull your support for the Dems, well, that's your choice. I'm sure you'll be much happier with how the 2008 GOP majority treats your children.

[lligrd]

19. I Guess The Scary Part Is

that even Dems don't get it. Don't get me wrong, I think it is brilliant and would even go along with it as long as he keeps civilian service as an option. The only part I don't like is them having information about our kids, but they already have that since they have to register anyway. The scary part is that so many Dems aren't even considering why he is doing this and it looks like we are divided again.

[newyawker99]

30. Hi lligrd!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Yukari Yakumo]

20. Or, in other words...

It's a trap to put the chickenhawks on the spot.

[loyalsister]

21. Another way of putting it....

"put up or shut up"

If they are going to conduct a war they should do it honestly. I am personally against it, and made every arguement we have seen come into fruition (breeding terrorists, etc.)

But if our representative government is going to pass things like the IWR, there should be a policy that distributes the potential sacrifice among us. If they don't have the guts to do it that way, they have no business even opening the door to the possibility of a ground war.

I am opposed to a the war and by extension a draft. But I think that it is inconsistent for policy makers who favor the war to oppose a draft. Especially considering the damage that is being done to the soldiers who are serving multiple tours.

That's a conversation Rangle's bill will force them to have.

[longship]

11. Ding-ding-ding-ding!!

Al Franken's bell just went off.

This bill will require hearings. The hearings are what is important because they will require debate on some *very* touchy subjects for the ChimpCo administration. Everybody screaming about Rangel right now needs to understand the extent to which Rangel's bill is going to stir the boiling pot.

[jgraz]

12. And before you ask...

Yes, I'd be subject to any draft that's passed.

[longship]

16. Do you actually believe a draft bill will pass?

Nobody else does. Why should anybody believe it will?

This is not about drafting you. It's about ending the Iraq war.

[jgraz]

17. Um, yeah...I'm the OP on this thread

:eyes:

[provis99]

13. oh, how liberal of you all

I guess its typical limousine liberal crap of, send the poor kids off to war, after all, they volunteered; but don't draft my little Johnny or Suzy; they've got other priorities. Explain how any of you are different from these chickenhawks on the Republican side who don't support getting drafted, either!

[Charlie Brown]

15. does that include the 200+ Democrats who voted "no" on this before?

including Conyers, Kucinich, Hoyer, Lewis, Slaughter, and even Rangel himself?

[jgraz]

18. Since nobody else is jumping in, I guess I'll be Captain Obvious tonight

"Explain how any of you are different from these chickenhawks on the Republican side"

Hmmm...could it be because we are actually AGAINST the war and are trying to stop it?

[pnwmom]

25. Explain how I'm different? Because I've been out there with my

signs on the street corners protesting this damn war since months before it started.

Because I've never wanted ANYONE'S children to be over there.

Because I worked for and gave money to Democrats who are calling for our immediate withdrawal.

This party will self-destruct if it dares to put the draft on the table. Millions like me, who specifically trusted Democrats to get us out of the war -- not expand the opportunities for war -- will rightly feel betrayed.

[madrchsod]

14. i am amazed about how many people don`t get it

rangel has had this on the table for at least 2 yrs now and now he has the power to open the debate. the draft will never be reinstated because rangel has no intention of doing so...it`s all about the debate on the iraqi war and bush`s failure. i can`t wait until the debate begins...

[pnwmom]

26. I don't believe in playing poker with my kids' lives on the table.

Sorry, but Bush could well call Rangel's bluff.

[USA_1]

22. Rangel Is Causing Division Among Dems ...

... and the Republicans are gloating.

Therefore, in answer to those who dismiss claims that Rangel will cost the Dems 2008, keep in mind that the fact Republicans are saying it as well.

Listen to right wing radio or talk to any Pukester that you know and they are all saying the same thing. On top of all that, if a vote is taken on the issue, Republicans will take credit for stopping the draft.

The smart thing to do is to stop Rangel and all discussion of a draft now before it is too fucking late!

[pnwmom]

28. You're absolutely right. And the frustrating part is

it's already too late to put this idiotic genie back in the bottle.

All Democrats have now been tarnished by this "top-Democrat-senior-Democrat-leading-Democrat-proposes-draft" meme.

[INdemo]

29. This is certainly giving the corporate media tons of ammo to

use against the Democrats..Rangel might have already cost us the White House just by bringing the subject up.

[lynne]

23. This whole exercise a huge waste of time and money -

- not to mention that we should be focusing on issues we are serious about and bills that we actually intend to pass in lieu of political theater. His last "debate" on this topic resulted in a 402-2 vote in 2004 which shows that there was absolutely NO debate on the issue.

Voters put us in power to make change for the better. And Rangel's first act is to play political theater with a bill that he didn't even vote for? A colossal squandering of opportunity and an insult to the voters, IMO.

[INdemo]

27. Could some tell Rangel to just shut

the f&%K up..Bringing up the draft issue has a lot of Democrats pissed off and its opening the door for a third party candidate. I dont care what Rangel's intentions are..... just shut up Charlie

[Cameron27]

31. He's using this as a debate?

We just won a friggin election, how's that for a debate. This is harmful and unnecessary and thank GOD Nancy Pelosi said any propositions for the draft are off the table.