Do you honestly believe Rangel's stunt will gain us votes in 2008?

[ButterflyBlood]

Of course not. That's why it's so STUPID. What's gained by him pulling this crap just so the Repukes can retake the majority then?

[iconoclastic cat]

1. The point right now is not votes in 2008.

It is to drain support for the Iraq war by forcing an examination of it. Any rational person would look at this mess and say, "Hell no. Get them out now."

[ButterflyBlood]

4. The majority is already against hte war, that's why we won

So why can't Rangel do something like, gee, I don't know, propose a bill cutting off funding or calling for troop withdrawl instead? Noooooo, that would be too logical.

[iconoclastic cat]

9. A proposal to cut off funding? You can't be freakin' serious.

That would create a factual basis for their "The Dems hate the troops!" crap. There are also many people who, while not supporting the war, are not on board with withdrawl.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. It wouldn't be as harmful as any draft bill

But let's look at the problem with this logic.

The main reason we can't exactly just end the war now is because any such bill would be vetoed by Bush. Well the draft would drive up anti-war sentiment to the extreme that he can't ignore, yet? Yes, so why wouldn't he veto that as well? Duh. Pass a draft bill, all that happens is Bush looks like the good guy and the Dems look like the bad guy.

That's why the Congress needs to focus more on pushing pressure on Bush than losing us votes with this scaremongering.

[FormerDittoHead]

10. Exactly. What, 20% support the war? Tell him to start acting like he's in the MAJORITY party! n/t

[havocmom]

21. bush/cheney seem to be readying expansion of the war to Iran NEXT MONTH or so

We need to get MASSES of Americans away from Desparate Housewives and out on Main Street NOW while we still have a bit of time and momentum

Rangel has a way to do that. We just need to be the media AGAIN and back him up to get enough people active NOW to make bush/cheney uncomfortable about the sheer numbers.

The neocons don't care about simple majorities. Once they actually start the war, we are stuck supporting it because the corporations will have already taken hostages: our troops.

[zanne]

7. Exactly

Remember when the Republicans in congress tried to embarass the Democrats with their bill supporting the war in Iraq? They had a "gotcha" moment when they made the Dems vote on pulling out the troops NOW.

[zanne]

2. No, but it could stop the war.

And it could stop us from invading Iran, which is George Bush's wet dream. Rangel is not an idiot; he knows that a draft would fire up ALOT of anti-war support. (It sure did in the Viet Nam era).

[ButterflyBlood]

3. Then why not introduce a bill to stop the war instead?

gee, what a concept.

[iconoclastic cat]

5. There needs to be public outcry for that to happen. Not everyone reads DU.

Right now, most people are not all that concerned.

[ButterflyBlood]

8. That already happened. We have Congress because of the war!

No one voted Dmeocratic to get their kid drafted, I can assure you that.

[FormerDittoHead]

11. I'm with you BB. n/t

[ButterflyBlood]

22. Why? Anyone in Congress can introduce any bill they like.

And people are already concerned. THAT'S WHY WE WON.

[napi21]

6. Neither! People can't rememberthat long!!! n/t

[Ron Green]

13. Calling it a "stunt" shows a lack of understanding of several things:

1) Economic opportunities have continued to shrink for poorer groups of young people.
2) Our military is close to being a mercenary militia at this point.
3) As harmful as this war is globally, it has not affected most people in this country.

[mconvente]

16. True, but the media will spin it (as they already have done)

Voters voted for Dems to change direction in the war, and now a Dem leader calls for a draft... See my previous post for more on this.

[bullimiami]

24. Do you think Rangel actually wants a draft? If he does not, and is using it to

make a point, it is a stunt. And imo a very misguided one.

[Ron Green]

25. Why wouldn't he want a draft? That's the way to ensure that young people

SERVE their country, not just sign up as some kind of career move. Jesus, we need to have ALL economic strata in this country invested in the ugly business of putting on a uniform and operating the horrible weapons that we've created. What we've got now is a kind of private militia of working-class kids whom we "honor" with magnetic yellow ribbons. Fuck that shit. Make ALL America involved in our insane foreign policy, and it won't be insane for long.

[bullimiami]

27. my problem with a draft and mandatory military service is with the

unfettered and reckless commander in chief. if we can have one madman in the wh who starts wars, we can have another. we are not at war regardless how many times bush says it and we dont need a huge standing army. some sort of other service, insulated from abuse by the government or military, ok, mandatory military service, i dont agree.

[mconvente]

14. Rangel is a moron...

This kind of stunt would work before we had the majority (which is why he's done it before). And even though Rangel's motive may be good (if we are having this war, mainly fought by impoverished children rather than the middle class and especially the wealthy class, then everyone should serve equally), this is just politcal suicide. Only people here at DU and the blogosphere are smart enough to know his motive, but the MSM didn't report Rangel's previous attempts, so it will look to the average American that Dems really DO want a draft.

The most bothersome issue with this is instead of talking about raising the minimum wage, investigations, renewable energy policy, and healthcare reform, no, now we have to fucking talk about this stupid draft bill... And you know the MSM will spin it to be like "voters just voted for Dems becasue they want the war to end, and boom a leader in the Democratic Party has just pushed forward a bill to reinstate the draft"

Well Mr. 94%, you may be safe in your district, but you are obviously too old and senile to realize that this stunt will not work - it requires logical and provocative thinking to "get it" and frankly, the average person just isn't that clever. :banghead:

[ButterflyBlood]

17. Yes, you summed it up

That fucking asshole just screwed over the rest of his party. We need to start backing a primary challenger to that idiot NOW.

[greenbriar]

35. uh...it is still the lame duck session of congress which is why he is doing it now

jebus

[cali]

15. LOL

It won't make a spit's worth of difference. Duh.

[CrispyQ]

18. The repukes would love a draft, but know it's suicide to propose it.

Rangle's strategy is dangerous & could backfire horribly. The pukes will vote in favor of the draft & the dems will blamed for it.

[Kashka-Kat]

19. so what's the alternative? continue to recycle the same volunteer &reserves

for the next 20 years? Do you all understand just how unprecedented it is shipping same people back again and again? Is that really fair... or humane?

[AlinPA]

20. Most people won't know his motive and will react by voting against Dems. Spin by R's

and media will make this favor the R's. Bush can say no and blame the Dems; young people obviously won't like the plan. This is a negative for us.

[Kelly Rupert]

23. This is a fair poll.

Where's the "won't do a damn thing" option?

[sillyparty]

26. Who Cares

What a sick question.

Maybe we can have a nuclear attack. That will help Dems in 08.

Anyone that equates this issue with 08 should become a Republican.

Now.

[Kashka-Kat]

28. amen! Filter all your thoughts and actions thru "what will my abuser think, how will he interpret or

misinterpret what I say?"

"Battered party syndrome" continues...

[ButterflyBlood]

29. I don't agree with the Repukes on a single issue, so why should I be one?

Because I hate one shithead Democrat who attacked Hugo Chavez only for bashing Bush?

[Infinite Hope]

30. Wow, talk about a leading question...

"Of course not. That's why it's so STUPID. What's gained by him pulling this crap just so the Repukes can retake the majority then?"

Good grief. People are so reactionary.

[Bobbie Jo]

31. Some things just aren't about votes...n/t

[cboy4]

32. Oh, so everything we need to do to get this country back on the

right track is going to be dictated on whether we should rock the boat?

We're not going to do this or that because it may cost us votes?

No thanks. I want no part of that weak agenda.

Weakness was partially responsible for shutting us out of congress until this year.

No to weakness.

Yes to spine.

[fuzzyball]

33. A draft in the military will help build character for most people.

So I think it is a noble and necessary step. Thanks rep Rangel
for proposing this. Hope it becomes the law and all young people
get to serve the country in uniform.

[Joey Liberal]

34. Rangel should have kept his mouth shut

All Rangel did was give more ammo to the right wingers.

[greenbriar]

36. uh so you don't agree with this???

"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft, and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.

[Joey Liberal]

38. I disagree with the way Rangel handled it

Rangel should have worked with Pelosi on this. He shot his mouth off and he got slammed.

[Cascadian]

37. It would backfire. It's as simple as that.

We cannot be under this false sense of security that since we won the elections, we are invincible and not even the Rovian spinsters can do anything about it. The draft would play into the righties' hands and make us look bad.


John