No elected Democrat should be proposing a draft for this war

[mtnsnake]

no matter if they're trying to make a point, trying to scare people into what the reality of a draft would mean, trying to be ironic, literally trying to enable the war, or trying to be fair to the people who are actually fighting this war.

Regardless of his point, calling for a draft in THIS case is ludicrous. This isn't WWII where we were fighting to keep a madman like Hitler from taking over, and where we needed every ounce of support we could muster up in order to stop him. This is Iraq, an unjust war started by someone in a similar fashion as Hitler.

All this does is open the door for Republicans to jump on Rangel's "bandwagon" and point to Democrats in the future that they're the ones calling for a draft, something that many Republicans would love to see happen, especially if they could blame the idea on Democrats.

I don't think Charlie Rangel is a bad man, and I realize that he is trying to make a point by proposing such a thing, but instead of proposing a draft during this war, he should be doing what all Democrats should be doing now that we're in power: calling for an end ASAP to this filthy unjust merciless war instead of calling for something that will only prolong it further. Ending this needless war in lieu of a draft will be a lot more fair to our soldiers than adding anymore of them to the already long list of casualties.

[Pierre.Suave]

1. Agreed

why would he do such a thing now.

[station agent]

3. This is a bad idea

I know they're trying to stop future wars, but this is not how you do it. You stop future wars by stopping future wars. Good policy and over site. Leadership and communication with the American people. If they fix the broken media, shit like Iraq would never happen.

[Phredicles]

2. Thank you! I don't think Rangel is a bad man either, but

I do think he's a loose cannon, that he doesn't think through what he says enough. This idea is probably political poison, but if it flies, it would militarize society and prolong arguably the dumbest war we've ever stumbled into.

[William769]

4. Every elected Democrat should be proposing a draft for this war

And should be demanding it also.

[cali]

5. gee, you couldn't

have posted this on one of the myriad of posts already extant? Vanity, vanity, vanity.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. I've given up.

This will blow over in a week, just like every other hyperpanic around here. Next week Rahm Emanuel will fart on TV or Grover Norquist will call for creating a Department of Hair, and we'll be on to the next hyperpanic.

[Norquist Nemesis]

17. Yep. You try and try

I tried ignoring it, engaged a few times, and still it goes on. It's over the top.

Reminds me of the let's hang Hillary for supporting a flag burning amendment! Just as in that case, it wasn't what she was doing or saying. But, noooo!!! Instead it's a She Must Be Stopped! for something she didn't say or support.

*sigh*

[wtmusic]

6. Why Rangel is right, in one word: accountability

You want a war, MFer? You send your own sons and daughters.

We already have a draft. It's called, "take the poorest in our society and make them our prostitutes." War is always wrong when profit is part of the equation. Rangel is taking profit out of the equation.

[mtnsnake]

9. Rangel's timing is not right

Charlie Rangel is rightfully looking out for the soldiers who are fighting this war, with so many of the ones who are there because they have no better choices at home for reasons of poverty, etc. I don't disagree with Rangel that the soldiers in ANY war should more fairly represent a truer crosssection of our country, not just a poorer crosssection. The thing is, this is NOT the war to be making that point. This is the time for Democrats to END this war, not promote something that would extend it. Charlie Rangel should make sure peacetime comes first, and then we could listen to his proposals for making sure that future wars are represented by a more fair representation of people than the Iraq War was.

[wtmusic]

10. Nothing would generate bipartisan support for ending this war faster

than a draft. Nothing.

[mtnsnake]

11. Why should we need a draft to generate bipartisan support? I thought Americans

just expressed a monumental outpouring of support to end the war a couple weeks ago!

[BlueCaliDem]

15. Rangel: If US Had A Draft We “Never Would Have Invaded Iraq”...

A huge military presence is being gathered around Iran as we speak.

Sy Hersch, who had warned us back in November last year, that Israel intended to attack Iran in June/July of this year (and tried, via war with Lebanon to get U.S. and Israeli support--and luckily failed), now warns us that Israel hasn't deterred from their aim to attack Iran--and neither has Bush.

Sy Hersch also countered Blitzer's claim that "Iran is close to having a nuclear weapon" by telling Wolfie that the ONLY information they have on that, is through a secret informant apparently ONLY Bush and the WH knows---just like "Curveball" before the Iraq invasion.

Also, Sy wanted to add that Israel has been saying Iran is "one year away" from developing nuclear weapons for over a decade now--and now the CIA has come out with a report concluding that there is no evidence Iran is anywhere near having a nuke.

But the American people are being kept in the dark about it. No matter that Sy Hersch is out there warning us what Bush with the Neo-cons in Israel are up to, even YOU didn't seem to get the message, and instead, blamed a Democratic combat veteran Representative for being foolish.

If anything, Charlie Rangel is being incredibly SMART by proposing a draft to whip up debate and interest thereby deterring the Bush propaganda machine from once again foolishly leading the U.S. into yet another unwinnable war.

Americans do not like war. They like it even LESS when their blood kin is at risk to fight one.

That's what this is all about, I believe.

[mtnsnake]

16. This is why Rangel's intentions should be made during peacetime, not now.

If having a draft is preventative, and I'm not saying I'd disagree with that notion, then Charlie's proposals should be made during a time of peace. After all, Charlie Rangel is concerned, and rightfully so, that when war happens, it should include a truer crossecition of our country, not just a poorer crossection. The time to discuss this, however, is not during an unjust war such as this one. The only thing that should be discussed about this particular war is how soon we can get our asses out of a country where they don't even want us interfering.

[BlueCaliDem]

18. With McCain advocating 20,000 MORE troops, and America...

...against the occupation of Iraq in theory but not really wanting immediate withdrawal (all the polls are showing a flip-flop on this), NOW is the time to present the hard choices to us.

Congress did NOT declare war. Congress is the ONLY body of government that can. WE are the Congress; the People. If the people are against furthering the occupation, it will end real soon, but it seems "the people" are waffling now regarding getting our troops out of Iraq, and this is emboldening the war-mongers in Congress.

Technically, Rangel *is* proposing the draft in "peacetime". Seymour Hersch on Blitzer's Sunday morning program warned that there is already an incredibly large U.S. military presence building around Iran as we speak. All signs are pointing to the fact that Bush hasn't been discouraged in attacking Iran although the CIA has concluded that there is NO evidence Iran is anywhere near having nuclear weapons.

The American people need to face hard choices; need to wake up quick that Bush intends to launch another unwinnable military action against another sovereign country, and the ONLY way to do this, is to have the American people face loss of life of kin through a reconstituted draft.

Rangel doesn't want a draft. He even voted against his own proposal the last time. Rangel wants DEBATE, and to shake America awake to the looming endless wars Bush is pushing for.

I can't understand why so many don't see this...

[BlueCaliDem]

7. Sy Hersch was on Wolf Blitzer's Sunday morning show, and he

...continues to warn us that Israel is still trying to force the United States into war against Iran.

He reports that the U.S. has an already heavy military force built around Iran today---showing shades of the military presence just before the U.S. invaded Iraq.

I believe Rangel knows this too, and he believes Bush intends to launch a war against Iran soon, although belated from the original time-frame Sy Hersch had predicted (which was back in June of July no matter that all the right-wing pundits were calling him crazy--and now remember Israel's invasion into Lebanon while saying Iran was behind it all).

Although this plan failed (thanks for the most part to the Israelis who had enough of warring already within 2 weeks of the Israeli/Lebanon conflict), the writing on the walls by Rangel, and Sy Hersch shows, that Bush hasn't backed down from his dream of perpetual war with the three "members" of the "Axis of Evil".

Rangel, seeing it coming down the road, is trying to deter another war by bringing up the draft and opening the debate once again.

Hopefully, when more Americans, and the constituents of war-mongering congressmen who are no doubt ready, and willing to vote for yet another resolution for the use of force, realize their own kids are about to be drafted to go to war, they won't be so fast in letting their congressmen/women give their vote---like the last time Bush wanted war against Iraq.

That's what I believe is the true reason behind Rep. Rangel's proposal.

[ellacott]

8. Also Turkey has been threatening to the Kurds in Irag

There are concerns as to whether Turkey will invade the Kurds in Northern Iraq.

Rangel is definately looking past this current conflict.

[BlueCaliDem]

14. Having grown up with Turkish people all around me in the Netherlands...

...it's not a question of 'whether', but when Turkey will attack the Kurds.

The putrid hatred within the Turkish people for Kurdish people is incredible. Their death squad named "the Grey Wolf" assassinated Kurdish people to the point that Kurds were too afraid to say they were Kurds.

A good friend of mine, Berivan, was Kurdish, although she passed herself off as Turkish. When the first Gulf War was launched against Saddam Hussein in '91, the Dutch journalists spoke with many Kurds living in Holland at that time, and I saw Berivan interviewed in full military fatigues ready to fight, and die for her people.

There's no doubt in my mind that, should the moment arise, Turkey will launch a war against the Kurds in a nanosecond!

[sillyparty]

13. So We Want Spineless Demcocrats

For years you all bitch about Dems flip flopping, saying what they need to say, and not standing up for what they think.

Charles Rangel stands up for what he believes and you want him drummed out of the party.

Not you MTN, two or three other tools on here. Here is my letter to the editor. And you Rangel stalkers, can run for office. Rangel has, and is saying what he believes.


Thank You, Charles Rangel. You think America needs a draft. I am as anti-war as they come, and I am one billion percent behind you. And by draft, I mean everyone of draft age, not just those not named Bush and Cheney, I mean everyone, you too media.

Maybe America will wake up to being lied into war. Nearly 80% believed Saddamn was behind 9/11. When it's your son or daughter, maybe you will pay more attention.

And oh yeah, we are fighting them there so we won't fight them here. Put aside that half a million Iraqi's are now dead for that lie. We have been here well over 200 years, and the Sunni's, Shia's, and Kurd's of Iraq have never attacked us.

Now we will probably send more troops. We will kill millions that never attacked us and never would have. So how does that make you feel?

Let the rest of America, not just the volunteers die for these lies. Let the son's and daughter's of politicians, and the media die for this lie.

When it is your son or daughter, maybe you will wake up.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

19. draft should be "off the table"

[Rainscents]

20. It is! Read this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/20/AR2006112000428.html