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Retired Generals on the broken army and illusions of the Iraq war

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 02:17 PM
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Retired Generals on the broken army and illusions of the Iraq war
From Talking Points:

COMMENTARY IN RECENT days from two retired Army generals, Barry McCaffrey and William Odom, gives an even greater sense of urgency to the need to change course in Iraq.

McCaffrey says the U.S. needs to bring home five brigades from Iraq before Christmas to keep the Army from breaking, a redeployment he concedes is not feasible, according to the Army Times:

“The country is not at war. The United States armed forces and the CIA are at war. So we are asking our military to sustain a level of effort that we have not resourced,” he told Army Times.

“That’s how to break the Army is to keep it deployed above the rate at which it can be sustained,” he said. “There’s no free lunch here. The Army and the Marine Corps and Special Operations Command are too small and badly resourced to carry out this national security strategy.”

Odom is equally gloomy:

Our leaders do not act because their reputations are at stake. The public does not force them to act because it is blinded by the president's conjured set of illusions: that we are reducing terrorism by fighting in Iraq, creating democracy there, preventing the spread of nuclear weapons, making Israel more secure, not allowing our fallen soldiers to have died in vain, and others.

But reality no longer can be avoided. It is beyond U.S. power to prevent sectarian violence in Iraq, the growing influence of Iran throughout the region, the probable spread of Sunni-Shiite strife to neighboring Arab states, the eventual rise to power of the anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr or some other anti-American leader in Baghdad, and the spread of instability beyond Iraq.

These realities get worse every day that our forces remain in Iraq. They can't be wished away by clever diplomacy or by leaving our forces in Iraq for several more years.

Meanwhile the President is focused on mislearning the lessons of Vietnam.



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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 02:26 PM
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1. The public is blinded because of the corporate news networks
General Electric (NBC), Disney (ABC), UK-based National Amusements (CBS), FOX Corp.(FOX)

Either it is time to break them up, or the government should encourage the development of independent media that is owned by the people themselves.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 02:36 PM
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2. Sadly, too many Dem leaders are hiding behind Baker panel to make decision -
and only a few are sticking to their guns on withdrawal.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow, that sure is a scary observation/comment/report!
Edited on Mon Nov-20-06 02:44 PM by Auntie Bush
But Unfortunately...they're right. We have no chance of winning thus war. It will go on forever and ever till hundreds of thousands of our brave soldiers have been killer or mutilated, physically, mentally and emotionally. I dare not think about how many Iraqis will be torched and killed before this chaos has ended...if ever. We must get out NOW...before we can't! Bush* stays in Iraq because he can't admit he made a mistake and will do everything in his power to protect his legacy and prove his Father wrong. Well it's time to grow up little boy! Take your bullets and tanks etc and go home and cry on Mommy's breasts. You're an asshole* and your legacy is you will go down as the worst Fuck**** failure in history! Sleep tight!
Can't sleep? Please take a hundred Ambien...that ought to do the trick. Nite! Nite! :boring:
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Now Afghanistan is ramping up. They see that our
military is severely weakened. Our NATO allies are there, but they are at the mercy of the voters back home.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 03:30 PM
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4. it's not about "illusions"

It's all about ego of the White House and ego of its remaining supporters.

Without ego to obstruct it, the only rational and practical strategy (withdrawal to border 'safe haven' zones and abandonment of the so-called government, letting the civil war happen and pass) is easy to implement.

With ego at stake and denial the state of affairs in Washington, nothing rational is possible.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 04:05 PM
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6. Give me back my legions!
Why am I seeing scenes from "I, Claudius" inside my head?

I sense imperial overreach... and we all know what happens after that.

Why do so few people actually learn the lessons taught by history? (I know, I know, "Americans don't study history;" this may be a fatal flaw.)
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. "Americans don't study history;" Neither does bush*.
Maybe now, so he claims, he's boning up on history, but he can't learn and absorb 40 years (while in a drunken state) worth of history in 4 years...especially if you're a slow reader as well as a slow learner. Heaven forbid...how did we elect this idiot to represent us to the world?
I know, I know...we didn't elect him, However a lot of fools fell for him and still do. "Will they ever learn?" Not yet but.......
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Are there still Democrats still pushing a win in Iraq?
I guess so!
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