To those who say you won't support Hillary because you don't like dynasties?

[Hippo_Tron]

Would you have voted for Bobby Kennedy in 1968?

[mike_c]

1. I don't give a rat's buttocks about dynasties-- I don't support warmongers....

eom

[NMDemDist2]

2. dynasties are the least of my problems with Mrs. Clinton n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

3. Neither do I, I was just referring to the people making the dynasty argument

Mrs. Clinton isn't my first choice in the primaries, either.

[blm]

23. Not part of the dynasty argument - just don't want ANY Coverup Dem presidency

and that is apparently what Clinton 1 did for Bush1.

[peace13]

4. At the risk of being unpopular

the problem I have is Bill's nose up Pappy's *ss! Peace, Kim

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Probably Would Have Voted For Bobby

It's only craven, triangulating, Middle-Class-sodomizing dynasties I don't like - such as the Clintons.

[longship]

6. Yes, I would have if I could have.

My first Pres vote was in 72.

I would have voted for Bobby in a heartbeat. Not because he was JFK's brother, because he certainly did not earn his way that way. Bobby turned public opinion around all by himself. He had significant baggage on his shoulders due to his involvement with Viet Nam. When he came out against the war, he came out with passion and he persuaded the public. We would have won in 68.

Compare Hillary. She's still for the war in Iraq.

There's still time for Hillary to pull an RFK here, though. If she does so, I will of course reconsider my position. A full 13 months until campaign starts, she has some time to think about this. However, unless she turns things around, I cannot and absolutely will not support her.

[Hippo_Tron]

7. I agree completely

I was just pointing out the criticism for Hillary because they don't like dynasties.

[Agony]

8. more so, I will not support those who cavort with the R. Murdoch "dynasty"

likely would have voted for him...but with less VapoRub shoved up my nose than if I have to vote for her

(ems people will understand)

[LittleClarkie]

9. Maybe if there weren't TWO dynasties that kept trading off every few years

As if to say "your turn"

[JDPriestly]

10. No. He was a great guy, but I did not support him then and I

wouldn't support him now. We don't need dynasties.

[FrenchieCat]

11. yes, I would have voted for Bobbie, but it's not the same.

It's apples and oranges, and just not a fair comparison, Hippo_Tron...and here's why:

JFK was gunned down before his time was up. Our country was tragically robbed in a very final way....and maybe what his brother represented to many in these United States was a heaven sent replacement. Someone who talked like him, kind of looked like him, and certainly possessed much of his charm, intellect, likeability and orator skills. And sadly, we were not even given the opportunity to experience a 2nd term with a Kennedy because once again, we were robbed just as tragically. Also know that we are still, in our own little way, looking for another JFK. That's why losing JFK Jr. was so tragic (to me anyways). I cried on that loss, because I knew then, that even looking into the future, there would not be a rebirth of Camelot. It was all part of a short time in our history.....those very short 3 years. There will never be another JFK or another RFK, but it doesn't stop folks from looking; whether it is by swooning at Edwards for his same handsome and youthful looks, or some who supported Warner for nothing more than his squared off Kennediesk Jaw and his lankiness. Or others still who might support Clark because of his Kennedy like heroism, intensity and intelligence while yet John Kerry has the same initials, came from the same state, and actually knew JFK. Many Americans look for a bit of JFK in all politicians because JFK inspired in a way that we may not see again, ever. That's how unfinished that whole era of Camelot will always feel to us. We are, in effect, still in shock that such a great man with so much potential could not lead us for the full time that he should have been alloted.

In the meantime, Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton has a whole different "Feel". Clinton served out his full 2 terms. Clinton was a good President, but inspiration is not totally what I feel when I see him. I came to grips that this chapter had closed. Add to the fact that Hillary neither resembles nor reminds me of Bill Clinton not even one little bit. Bush I and Bush II were both terrible Presidents, so that ain't helping!

So here....what we would be saying in attempting to consider Dynasties as being OK....is that out of the vast population of the United States, considering all of the bright and innovative minds that we have to select from, somehow we can only find two families to hold the highest seat in our land for two to three decades! That's not a dynasty....that starting some kind of bizarre precedence and represents a lifetime for many of us.

So I conclude by shaking my finger at ya, and asking you not to even begin to compare why we might have wanted to vote for RFK vs. why Hillary is OK, dynasty be damned. That's just not a stretch I'm willing to make....cause it doesn't really compute when analyzed.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. Only 3 years of JFK is an excellent point. Plus

I think the problem of political dynasties is getting worse in our country. It's not that the sons and daughters and wives and husbands of good politicians may not be good politicians themselves, it's that too often they are thrust forward as heir apparent because of their family connection without much consideration given as to whether they are good politicians/public servants/leaders. It is a dangerous trend in our democracy, and it alarms me that we are developing a professional political class based on blood lines.

In New York State I was torn between voting for Andrew Cuomo and Mark Green for Attorney General in the Primary, I chose Green (voted for Cuomo in the General Election) and my issues with dynasties was a deciding factor for me. America ended up with Bob Casey Jr as a Senator from PA, and almost got Thomas Keane Jr. as a Senator from NJ. From what I can glean neither is as talented as their father, certainly Keane isn't in my opinion. Lincoln Chaffee Jr. does seem like a good man, but (asking this of the origninal poster here) doesn't this trend alarm you at all?

This is not new to American politics or human nature, I concede that point, but the increasing need to raise obscene amounts of money in order to run for office, and the fact that blood relatives of people who ran before and won start out inheriting name recognition which is very expensive to buy, is skewing the field ever stronger toward picking candidates based on their last name rather than their personal qualities. This really is a problem IMO.

So yes I would have voted for RFK, and I might vote for Hillary against a Democrat whose priorities I more strongly disagree with, but all things being equal I vote against sons and daughters wives and husbands...

[Hippo_Tron]

16. I agree that Hillary is not even in Bobby Kennedy's league

And I don't even intend to vote for her in the primary. But I'm just think that I think the dynasty argument is flawed one despite the fact that there will be two-three decades of Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton if she is elected. I don't think it says anything about our system other than the fact that two people who happened to be President happen to have family members that want to seek the office as well and obviously will use their connections to help them get there. Hillary should be judged by her own actions, not because her husband was President. And thus far her actions have not impressed or inspired me very much.

[RamboLiberal]

27. Wow FrenchieCat you so eloquently stole my thunder

Your reasoning is exactly why I would rather not see Hillary run or win the nomination. 300 million people and 2 families run the country for nearly half my life - no thanks. If Hillary was nominated I wouldn't be excited though I would most likely vote for her.

RFK was different because we only had JFK for what, about a 1000 days? RFK would have been finishing he legacy of JFK.

It's past time IMHO for new and fresh person and ideas in the WH. That's why I'd love to see Obama or Edwards or Clark or some other Dem with new ideas win the nod and the WH.

[FrenchieCat]

28. Cool!

and thanks! :hi:

:headbang:

[Ninja Jordan]

12. I don't support nasaly, annoying politial opportunists...

no offense to nasaly people, as I am a member of NASAL.

[OneBlueSky]

13. "dynasties" is not even a consideration in my opposition to Hillary . . .

as our presidential candidate in 2008 . . . it's based entirely on her support of the war and a penchent for political opportunism that allows her to support things like a flag burning amendment . . . she's also WAY too deeply involved with the DLC and with corporate interests of all sorts, particularly the banking and credit card industries . . .

we need someone at least resembling a populist in 2008 . . . based on what he's done since 2000, I think Al Gore may be the best candidate -- despite an earlier background similar to Hillary's . . . Al seems to have learned and grown; Hillary hasn't . . .

[LibertyorDeath]

15. Well lets see America's first female Prez

Anyone that seriously thinks Americans will elect their first female Prez in 2008
and it will be Hillary is delusional in my opinion.

Not a snowballs chance in fucking hell.......

[loyalsister]

19. As a feminist.....

I think it would be an insult to women if the first woman president were elected on her husband's coattails and largely based on the assumption that says he would have influence if she were president.

[LibertyorDeath]

21. Good point

I hope to see a Female President in my life time
but Hillary is to polarizing and divisive & rides on her husbands Charisma.

[LynneSin]

17. Hell I voted for Beau Biden, who am I to judge

:shrug:

[sendero]

18. In the list of reasons I won't support HRC...

... "dynasties" is a mere footnote.

[Renew Deal]

20. Bush VP, Bush VP, Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton, Clinton,

Jeb Bush
Jeb Bush
Chelsea Clinton
Chelsea Clinton
George P. Bush
George P. Bush

There never needs to be a non-Bush or Clinton president again.

[enough already]

22. Fine, then dynasties are just peachy

I won't support her because she voted for an illegal, immoral war. Happy now?

[MADem]

24. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhushhhhhh ..... that's a different dynasty, and besides, RFK wasn't a ...... girl.

:sarcasm:

Better haul this dripping sucker out for the irony-challenged, not being in the mood to swat at high dudgeon today!

[LWolf]

25. No.

I was only 8 years old.

If I were of voting age, I would have voted for him. RFK would have earned my vote on issues, not family. Also, I don't think the issue there would have been "dynasty," but a response and closure to JFK's assassination. JFK was removed from office before one full term was served.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

26. i don't like republicans.. especially the ones w/ a D next to their name

[LaPera]

29. That's funny as fuck...Never heard a single person but you come up with

such a ridiculous reason....no one gives a fuck either way....they's plenty of reasons people don't care for Hillary and if you want a list I'm sure there's many who will give you one....A dynasty would be one president after the other and then another, right in a row and that's never happened in this country. Never even two in a row!

[BlueStater]

30. Different circumstances

If JFK had served eight years followed by a relative of Eisenhower then yes, I would vote against him.

[IndianaGreen]

31. Bobby opposed the war in Vietnam, Hillary supports the war in Iraq

This is like comparing Bobby to Humphrey, a shameless cheerleader for the Vietnam War, who once referred to it as our country's "greatest adventure."

Hillary is no Bobby!

[Daylin Byak]

32. To say I hate Hillary for Prez due to dynasties is false

I hate her for many reasons:

-She's a war mongrer

-She's too much into the DLC and the corporete whores

-She makes the party look bad

-She's annoying, cold and will polarize our Democratic base.

If she's our nominee in 2008 the Democrats say get ready to say, time to plan for '12.

[nealmhughes]

33. No. I don't hold that against her at all, unlike a lot of other things.

Hillary "Clusterbomb" Clinton? No thanks.

Hillary "Oh, forget about healthcare" Clinton? No thanks.

Hillary "My place next, Rupe" Clinton? No thanks.


Hillary "I just love CAFTA" Clinton? No thanks.

Too much baggage for me to injest at one typing session...