George Allen's classless exit

[BobcatJH]

Some may wonder why Virginians voted George Allen out of office. One reason, illustrated here, is that Allen was and is a classless bozo:

As a last little gift to America, Senator George Allen, who was narrowly defeated by James Webb this month, has introduced what may be his final piece of legislation: a bill that would allow the carrying of concealed weapons in national parks. The argument behind the bill is that national park regulations unfairly strip many Americans of a right they may enjoy outside the parks.

[GainesT1958]

1. It's so good to see Macaca Man...

About to be shown the door! Guess he'll have to close those Iowa and New Hampshire offices, too.:D

Kind of figures he was OxyRush's man for 2008, doesn't it?:eyes:

B-)

[billbuckhead]

2. But hiding a gun is such a large part of so many men's personas

I'm far more afraid of these guys than actual career criminals. Unless they're professional politicians. Think about how America let's criminals like Duke Cunningham, Tom DeLay and Grover Norquist make public policy on guns? Or how about a war criminal like Dick Cheney who owns over 30 machine guns? That's who I want making my nation's public weapons policy. Along with think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute who gave us John Lott and the Iraq invasion.

[MichiganVote]

3. Yikes! Does this include Dead Eye Dick?

[Ian David]

4. National Parks unfairly strip me of other rights I enjoy outside the parks...

for example, the right to masturbate under a tree.

What's Macacca going to do about THAT?

[ComerPerro]

5. some gun-nut libertarians might be willing to give you that right

[Ian David]

7. I could get him all sticky. n/t

[Clark2008]

18. Can't pick any flowers, either.

Or kill bears.

[Ian David]

19. We can't let the bears win. They're godless killing machines. n/t

[ComerPerro]

6. Oh good, now I can be murdered by a FReeper in a national park and no one may ever know

[benEzra]

21. Murderers don't need carry licenses...

...and I would point out that the Dem who finally defeated Macacawitz and flipped the Senate (Jim Webb) is one of those carry license holders, and is no freeper.

[Vickers]

22. Not if I'm around...I'll blow his ass away for you.

Signed,

yet another DU gun nut :eyes:

[dogman]

8. I thought maybe he stole all the w keys

from the keyboards.

[peekaloo]

9. hey buddy, is that a pistol in your pocket or are you just proud to be American.

[benEzra]

10. I don't see Senator Webb opposing this, either...

IIRC Webb is a CCW permit holder, and AFAIK Macacawitz isn't. Remember a big reason Webb was elected was that he is pro-gun-owner, no less so than Allen (despite Allen's claims to the contrary). Pro-CCW-reform, against the "assault weapon" bait-and-switch, and so on. He wouldn't have won otherwise.

FWIW, to obtain a firearms carry license here in NC, you must first undergo state-mandated training on NC firearms law and self-defense law. At the end of the class, you must demonstrate that you understand the law, and must also demonstrate proficiency on a shooting range. You then take your paperwork to your local law enforcement agency (county sheriff's office, for me), where you are fingerprinted by a deputy, provide proof of residency and approved ID, fill out additional forms, and pay some fairly hefty fees. The law enforcement agency sends your prints to the FBI for a fingerprint check, and also runs a state and Federal background check. They give you an additional form to take to the mental health records office, who run a mental health records check. Then you go home and wait for several weeks to a month or two. If you are approved, your license will be issued.

You are responsible to keep your current address on file with your local law enforcement agency, and your handgun carry license is indexed to your driver's license and motor vehicle registration in the state's computers. You have to inform any law enforcement officer you encounter that you are a license holder (every single one I've ever encountered has been very positive about it, presumably since holding a current CHL means I'm an FBI-certified, squeaky clean Good Guy), and you can have your license revoked at any time for even the most minor violations (e.g., carrying in a restaurant that you don't know serves alcohol, or failing to inform a police officer you encounter that you are licensed to carry and have a firearm). Virginia's laws are probably similar.

IMHO, people who go through that, and pass, are NOT the type of people to do something illegal with a gun, so I personally don't see this proposal as being particularly idiotic. Yes, I do have a carry license.

[gratuitous]

11. The Stephen Colbert Bill?

Everyone knows that many of our national parks are just brimming with bears!

[Hippo_Tron]

13. LMAO bear defense militia

[Ninja Jordan]

12. What is "classless" about this?

Allen is a class A douchebag, but I don't see the big deal.


I am pro-second amendment.

[Virginian]

14. The California Cowboy also changed gun laws in DC.

DC doesn't have its own Senators to represent them, so the bully, Allen, decided that he, rather than the DC city government, knows what's best for DC. DC had anti-gun laws that he overturned with a bill in the Senate. Isn't that just like a bully, picking on someone who can't fight back.

I can understand hunters wanting guns. I may not like it, but I respect their rights. They hunt in the woods and the only other people around are other hunters. But in DC, the population is so dense that discharging a weapon often results in an innocent person getting injured or killed. There are too many stories on the news about children getting hit with stray bullets while they are in their own living rooms watching cartoons.

I posted this once before and got flamed by the "Guns for Self Defense" contingent.

I am not saying what DC should have or not have for gun laws, I am only saying that they should be able to govern themselves without bullys coming in and overturning their decisions. Maybe more concealed weapon permits would lower the stray bullet problem. That is for DC to decide, not Allen.

[benEzra]

20. I'm OK with DC setting its own gun laws,

as long as DC doesn't try to force its vision of gun laws on North Carolina or New Hampshire through the torts or whatever. D.C. has completely banned the possession of functional firearms by ordinary citizens, even in your own home, for 30 years now. Hasn't worked, but they've got the prohibition they want. Fine by me, as long as my state also has the right to set its own gun laws.

I personally don't care too much what the laws in DC or Massachusetts are; I don't agree with them, but if that's what those residents want, it's their state. As long as they keep their laws out of MY state, and don't try to ram bans on nonhunting-style guns or whatever down our throats via Congress (a la 1994), we can all live and let live.

[Virginian]

23. Then we are in total agreement.

Set the laws based on the region and its needs. No one from rural areas should tell DC that deer hunting season starts today. DC may have a few deer, but there really isn't anywhere to hunt.

By the same token, the mayor of DC shouldn't be telling North Carolina what gun laws they should have. DC city government shouldn't be dictating NC speed limits, tax rates or anything else that is left up to local governments.

The problem with DC is that it is made up of citizens who do not have the same rights and representation as people who live in states. Isn't that ironic that the city that is the seat of our federal government just got the right to vote for POTUS in 1964 and they still have no voting representation in either house of congress? That was what Allen was taking advantage of. It didn't have to be a gun law, it could have been anything. I was also unhappy that Bob Barr could force DC to rename National Airport to Reagan Airport. I felt he shouldn't have the power to force his red opions on a blue area.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jpwhite]

16. that's why we have park rangers

You don't need a gun at the national parks. That's why we have park rangers. The reason we don't allow concealed weapons at national parks is because we don't want people to shoot endangered animals. What a riduculous idea. Instead of fixing things the last thing Sen. Allen wants to do is to kiss up to the NRA. Good grief!

James
[e-mail]

ps. If you really want to carry a gun so that you have protection, just buy a shoulder holster. That way people will know you have a gun and they won't mess with you. Why does it have to be concealed anyway?

[benEzra]

17. See post #10...

if you're the type to commit felony discharge of a firearm, you probably wouldn't bother jumping through all those hoops in order to legally possess the gun you're going to commit a felony with, would you? FWIW, states are allowed to set firearm carry policies in National Forests, and there have been absolutely no problems with state-authorized CHL holders shooting endangered species, or anything else. Generally speaking, bozos and criminals don't bother with carry licenses; only the ultra-honest do.

As far as park rangers--if the park service would be so kind as to assign you a personal armed park ranger to hike, cycle, or kayak with you in case of wackos, meth makers, drug growers, and such in the uber-boonies, that'd be great. But they don't, so that is something of a red herring.