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Edited on Sat Nov-25-06 07:41 PM by NV1962
Hi gang. I thought it'd be worthwhile to translate the entire, original interview with Janis Karpinski published in Spanish newspaper El País and make it available in English. Without further ado: here it is. Offered freely to the free-thinking, progressive and left-leaning people of this planet; arch-conservatives, ultra-libertarians and other moral suspects may also reproduce it, but only after paying a hefty disabuse tax. Send me a PM for details. :D Edited: crikey, forgot to repost the darn thing as promised... Here it is: INTERVIEW
Violence in Iraq
JANIS L. KARPINSKI
CECILIA FLETA
Berlin, November 11th, 2006
QUESTION: How many prisoners were there when you took control over the Abu Ghraib prison?
ANSWER: When we took control of Abu Ghraib there were less than 200, mostly Iraqi criminals, looters, people who had violated the curfew, all kinds of lesser crimes. But then suspects of terrorism began to arrive, the so-called “security detainees” and by the end of October we already had more than 7,000. Our plans were to take all Iraqi criminals out of Abu Ghraib and transfer them to other prisons as soon as those were renovated. We wanted to close down Abu Ghraib because it was becoming very dangerous, as the insurgency was becoming highly effective in that area. We weren’t prepared to receive so many new prisoners. By the end of October it was hyper-populated, and very dangerous.
Q: When did the torture begin at Abu Ghraib?
A: It all began with the visit to Iraq by Gen. Geoffrey Miller, commander of the Guantanamo prison, in September of 2003. He was sent by the Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, or by the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, Stephen Cambone, to teach members of the military intelligence agency new and tougher interrogation techniques, and that were already in use at Guantanamo. Before he left, he told me that he wanted to take control over Abu Ghraib to convert it into an interrogation center for all of Iraq, and that is what he did. He gave his orders from Guantanamo, and he managed to have everything working the way he wanted.
Q: Did you object to the new interrogation techniques?
A: I wasn’t responsible for interrogation. The commander of military intelligence, Col. Thomas Pappas, in charge of interrogations, wasn’t my subordinate and he didn’t share with me the results of the interrogations, either. Pappas followed orders from Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander in chief of the U.S. troops in Iraq.
Q: Were you aware that the Geneva conventions concerning human rights weren’t adhered to in your prison?
A: The Geneva conventions were followed in all my prisons. Now we know that they weren’t followed during the interrogations, but I wasn’t aware of that because I didn’t supervise the interrogations. During the detentions, which were my responsibility, the Geneva conventions were obeyed.
Q: When did you find out that torturing took place during the interrogations?
A: When I saw the photos for the first time, at the end of January, 2004. Today I know that the pictures weren’t taken during the interrogations, because there were different facilities for those, outside of block 1A, which is where those photographs were taken. The photos were taken to use them as a means of persuasion during the interrogations: to convince the detained so as to talk. I can assure you that if anyone had taken pictures during the interrogations, they would never have come to light.
Q: You say in your testimony that Gen. Sanchez transferred you away from Baghdad. Why do you think he did that?
A: It was very clear that we obeyed the law and the Geneva conventions at Abu Ghraib, and I believe that Gen. Sanchez knew that. Gen. Sanchez, Col. Pappas and Gen. Miller – they all knew that if I became aware of what was going on, I’d ring the alarm bell. They took control over Abu Ghraib away from me, but they couldn’t have kept me from dropping by, every now and then, to see how everything was going, so he sent me to another post, almost two hours away from Baghdad, and I think he did that to keep me far away from Abu Ghraib.
Q: You knew that there were prisoners at Abu Ghraib who hadn’t been registered, as established by Geneva.
A: I only knew about one who was held in another prison, and we were ordered not to enter him in any database, and not to give him a registration number. When I heard about that I went to the legal assistant of Gen. Sanchez, and I told him that this was in violation, and that if Gen. Sanchez didn’t take personal responsibility, I’d either register him in the database or set him free. He asked me not to let him go, and that he’d clear it up. After a week we received a message from the Pentagon, from the Defense Secretary, ordering us to keep this prisoner without registering him in the database. Now I know that this has happened in several cases.
Q: Were there any children among the unregistered persons?
A: One time they brought in a large group that had children. I saw them, and I told Col. Pappas: “You can’t have children in this facility.” He answered: “Well, they may have information.” And I told him: “One of the children told me he is twelve years old. He looks like eight, so we don’t know what his age is.” Two days later, he was transferred to a juvenile facility. Col. Pappas didn’t care about the Geneva convention, the only thing he wanted was to keep Gen. Sanchez happy, who made his life miserable.
Q: Why do you think things got worse with the arrival of the civilian contractor interrogators?
A: These interrogators had previous experience in Afghanistan and/or Guantanamo, and they were sent by Miller to participate in the interrogations. They didn’t care about the law; they worked in a lawless environment.
Q: Why do you think the orders to practice torture came from all the way up?
A: Because I saw a memorandum signed by Donald Rumsfeld concerning the use of these interrogation methods. The handwritten signature was over his printed name, and in the same handwriting, in the margin, it said: “Make sure that this is carried out.” The methods consisted of forcing the prisoners to remain standing for a long time, disturbing their sleep and their eating patterns, play music as loud as possible, make them feel uncomfortable in their surroundings… Rumsfeld authorized those specific techniques.
Q: Why do you want to testify against Rumsfeld in this trial?
A: I don’t have anything against Rumsfeld. The thing is, I believe that the people who should have shouldered the responsibility for what has happened, haven’t done so. It’s bad to accuse others of something, but to accuse somebody else while knowing he has no blame, while you’re getting away from that responsibility… That, for me, is a sign of cowardice, and that is what I think Sanchez, Rumsfeld and all the others are: cowards. I’m going to keep telling what I know, because the whole world, not just the Americans, has to know what happened, so that it won’t happen again.
Q: Have you received any pressure to not testify?
A: I received an e-mail from someone in the Justice Department, who vividly advised me not to testify, because some might consider it anti-American, and because I wasn’t helping Rumsfeld. I answered that nobody is going to silence me, because I’m protected by the Constitution, and besides, it’s not like Rumsfeld or Sanchez or Miller have done anything to help me.
Q: Do you think the President, George W. Bush, gave the orders, or that he know what was going on?
A: I don’t know what he knew, and I’d like to believe that he trusted those working for him to do the right thing. But he’s the commander in chief, and he’s expected to assume responsibility.
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