You do realize Kerry won in 2004, don't you?

[ProSense]

Kerry won the the primary. Some polls for reference:

CBS News Poll. Feb. 24-27, 2004. N=546 likely Democratic primary voters nationwide. MoE ± 4.
.
"Who would you like to see the Democratic Party nominate as its presidential candidate in 2004: , or someone else?" Names rotated

2/24-27/04

Kerry 57%
Edwards 18%
Sharpton 4%
Kucinich 1%
Other (vol) 8%
Don't know 12%
Dean n/a

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates. Feb. 19-20, 2004. N=391 registered Democrats and independents who lean Democratic nationwide. MoE ± 6.
.
"Which of the following four Democrats would you MOST like to see nominated as the Democratic Party's presidential candidate this year?" Names rotated
John Kerry 54%
John Edwards 19%
Al Sharpton 4%
Dennis Kucinich 2%
Howard Dean (vol) 3%
None (vol) 2%
Don't know 16%

"If the Democratic presidential race comes down to a choice between John Kerry and John Edwards, which would you rather see as the party's candidate this fall?" Names rotated

John Kerry 63%
John Edwards 26%
Neither (vol) 2%
Don't know 9%

CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. Feb. 16-17, 2004. N=426 Democrats and Democratic leaners nationwide who are registered to vote. MoE ± 5.

"Next, I'm going to read a list of people who may be running in the Democratic primary for president in the next election. After I read all the names, please tell me which of those candidates you would be most likely to support for the Democratic nomination for president in the year 2004. . . ." Names rotated

2/16/2017

John Kerry 65%
John Edwards 19%
Howard Dean 8%
Dennis Kucinich 2%
Al Sharpton -
Other/None/No opinion 6%

University of Connecticut Poll. Feb. 12-16, 2004. N=474 registered voters nationwide who are Democrats or lean Democratic. MoE ± 4.5.
.
"Three main candidates for the Democratic presidential nomination are still in the race. Who would you like to see get the nomination for president -- would you say ?"

John Kerry 64%
John Edwards 16%
Howard Dean 8%
Other (vol) 1%
Don't know 11%

Time/CNN Poll conducted by Harris Interactive. Feb. 5-6, 2004. N=377 registered Democrats and independents who lean Democratic nationwide. MoE ± 5.
.
"Thinking ahead to the 2004 presidential election, if you were asked to vote for a Democratic presidential nominee for president today, which of the following Democrats would you vote for? . . ."

2/5-6/04

John Kerry 43%
John Edwards 18%
Wesley Clark 11%
Howard Dean 8%
Al Sharpton 6%
Dennis Kucinich 5%
Other 1%
Not sure 8%
Joseph Lieberman n/a
Dick Gephardt n/a
Carol Moseley Braun n/a

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates. Feb. 5-6, 2004. N=383 registered Democrats and independents who lean Democratic nationwide. MoE ± 5.
.
"Now I'm going to name six Democrats in the race for president. After I read you their names, tell me which ONE you would most like to see nominated as the Democratic Party's presidential candidate this year. Here are the choices . . . ." Names rotated

2/5/2006

John Kerry 48%
Howard Dean 13%
John Edwards 10%
Wesley Clark 9%
Al Sharpton 4%
Dennis Kucinich 1%
Other (vol.) 0%
None (vol.) 1%
Don't know 14%
Joe Lieberman n/a
Dick Gephardt n/a
Carol Moseley Braun n/a

Quinnipiac University Poll. Jan. 28-31, 2004. N=420 Democratic voters nationwide. MoE ± 4.8.
.
"Now I'm going to name seven Democrats running for president this year. After I read all seven names, tell me which one you would most like to see the Democrats nominate for president this year. Here are the choices . . . ."

1/28/1931

John Kerry 42%
Howard Dean 11%
John Edwards 10%
Wesley Clark 10%
Joe Lieberman 6%
Al Sharpton 5%
Dennis Kucinich 1%
Don't know 14%
Dick Gephardt n/a
Carol Moseley Braun n/a

"If you had to choose, would you rather see the Democrats nominate Howard Dean or John Kerry for president this year?"

1/28-31/04

Kerry 64 %
Dean 23%
Unsure 13 %

Associated Press poll conducted by Ipsos-Public Affairs. Nov. 18-20 & Dec. 1-3, 2003. N=539 likely Democratic presidential primary/caucus voters nationwide. MoE ± 4.3.
.
"It is early, but if you had to choose today, which ONE of the following nine candidates would you be most likely to support for the Democratic nomination for president? . . ."

Howard Dean 18%
Wesley Clark 14%
Richard Gephardt 14%
John Kerry 13%
Joe Lieberman 10%
John Edwards 6%
Al Sharpton 4%
Carol Moseley Braun 4%
Dennis Kucinich 2%
Other/None/Not sure 15%

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm

Ever thought would vote for other candidate:

Bush voters 16%
Never: 84%

Kerry Voters 15%
Never: 85%

All voters 15%
Never: 84%

http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/naes/2004_03_mindset-bush-kerry-supporters_%2001-05_pr.pdf

You do realize Kerry may have won the 2004 general election, don't you?

There may have been some problems like http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2660209&mesg_id=2660209">cheating, but who knows.

Still, Kerry got 59 million votes!

Maybe one of the other candidates will do better next time, but I'm Kerry can!

Kerry 2008!

[nickshepDEM]

1. There is a shit load of people in that picture. Where is it from?

[LittleClarkie]

10. Madison WI I believe

Here's Milwaukee:



I was somewhere in there, half drowned and cold as hell.

[jgraz]

17. Yep, I was there. Thousands upon thousands of Not Bush supporters.

[LittleClarkie]

19. Took a poll of them did you?

Come on dear, they weren't all ABBers. If they were all ABBers, they wouldn't have frozen their asses off.

Everyone had their reasons for being there. There were veterans. There was a woman who's son was in Iraq. He looked as many of them in the eye as he could, trying to listen to each one as he went by.

I think that was one of the reasons he almost broke down during his concession speech, thinking of all the people he wouldn't be able to help.

[jgraz]

31. "If they were all ABBers, they wouldn't have frozen their asses off."

Huh? Wasn't it like 50 degrees that day? Most people weren't even wearing hats. We cheeseheads will brave much colder weather just to watch Brett Farve throw practice passes.

I know that most of the people I was there with didn't care which Dem was running. We just wanted Bush out. I thought Kerry would make a good President, but mostly I just wanted Bush gone.

We'll never know, but I truly believe that all of those rallies would have been just as big (if not bigger) for Dean or Edwards.

[LittleClarkie]

36. I remember it raining, and being chilled to the bone. My leather jacket weighed a ton

and that night at campaign hq, I really didn't want to go outside anymore. My legs were killing me and I couldn't feel my feet. Maybe I'm just a wimp. ;)

I think Kerry was indeed impressed by our cheezy heartiness.

So you and the people you were with were mostly ABB. That doesn't make it "thousands and thousands", just you and your buds. I think there was a goodly number of ABBers, mind you. But if Kerry hadn't started looking like a winner, I don't think we'd have all been out there cheering and shit.

I just wish he'd started building momentum a tad sooner. It didn't start happening until he looked so good during the debates. Suddenly people saw a winner, and started showing up to campaign at HQ. I had trouble getting a seat after that. Suddenly people wanted signs and stickers and stuff.

I actually thought we'd pulled it off. It's only been since this last election that I've been able to think about those few days at the end without crying. I just wish the country had been smarter back then.

[jgraz]

37. The October Rally? The one with Springsteen?

I don't remember the rain. Maybe I'm mixing up my rallies. Two years of election-induced depressive drinking will do that to you. ;) :beer:

[LittleClarkie]

39. OH! No, the one the day before the election. November 1st.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. But I was referring to MY picture, not the Madison one. So maybe your crowd, and my crowd, had a different flavor. My crowd thought we might actually have a chance of winning. Kerry came out wearing a Boston Red Sox hat with his two kids. He was impressed that there were about 10,000 of us, despite the rain and the 40 degree temps.

[jgraz]

42. Yep, I was in Madison. We had 80,000 and "The Boss" -- ha ha :)

Of course, we also had Jim Doyle....yawn.

[sandnsea]

65. Oh riiight

People really and truly sit in gnarled up traffic, then stand in line for hours more, in the blazing heat and freezing rain, then sit in MORE traffic - to listen to a guy they can't stand in order to prove they don't like Bush. :crazy:

[DemBones DemBones]

2. Sure he won, but he couldn't wait to concede.

He said he had our backs and then he folded.

We gave him a lot of money and it was all a waste -- oh, yeah, he KEPT millions from his campaign coffers instead of helping other candidates.

[MH1]

5. "Instead of helping other candidates"????? - where the hell'd you get that?

It's totally untrue, Kerry turned over plenty of money to the DNC, DSCC, DCCC and individual candidates in 2004, 2005, AND 2006.

He couldn't spend primary funds in the general.

[LittleClarkie]

11. Primary coffers. And he's used it for other candidates.There's not as much there as you think either

Not according to opensecrets.org, anyway. About as much as Gore had at the end.

Do you trust Donna Brazille? Because it's her into you're quoting. I personally do not.

[lastknowngood]

3. He won but was unwilling to fight for it. Why should we believe he

would fight next time?

[MH1]

6. There was no proof. He was down 3 million votes in popular vote, and

120,000 in Ohio.

Gore didn't fight the fraud after the SC decision either, and it was OBVIOUS that he was cheated out of it. He didn't exactly take to the streets, so I don't know why you all keep dinging Kerry on it.

[Old and In the Way]

13. Good points...

Lets say, for argument, he did fight it and refused to concede. I guess we'd have had a constitutional crisis. Let's also stipulate that somehow he overturned the results in Ohio and won. What would have been the outcome? He'd have had a hostile Republican majority in Congress and MSM that would have fought him every step of the way. Can you imagine how the media would have critiqued his every sentence? Who knows how that would have played into the 2006 midterms? Maybe Republicans don't lose control of Congress and the investigations that will occur, don't occur. I think that'd been the situation for any Democratic candidate who didn't win with an overwhelming mandate in 2004. And if Kerry didn't get that mandate, given his performance in primaries...what other candidate would have come as close? My mom used to say, "things happen for a reason". Maybe the reason was we needed to take back Congress before we could seat an effective Democratic President. I suspect that Kerry came to a similar conclusion.

[eridani]

14. How about a goddam INVESTIGATION to find the truth?

I don't believe your numbers. I don't know for sure that Kerry won, but I do know that there was overwhelming PROBABLE CAUSE to investigate the election results. By your logic, we should never put anybody else in jail again, for anything. We just stop investigating crimes, and--POOF--no proof ever again that anybody is guilty of anything.

[MH1]

15. His lawyers participated in the lawsuits. n/t

[eridani]

60. Which did not result in an investigation.

Those particular lawsuits were not enough. If we won't stand up for our own voters, we aren't worth warm spit as a party.

[jgraz]

18. Of course there was no proof! He gave up 15 hours after the polls closed!

The proof was there if he had been able to muster the backbone to look for it.

This is the kind of shit that makes smoke come out of my ears. Al Gore gave up "for the good of the country" and we forgave him. Kerry gave up "to preserve future viability" and some of us forgave him.

We need to make goddamn sure that candidates understand that bailing out on democracy is absolutely un-fucking-acceptable. They SHOULD pay a penalty. Kerry has no right to ask for my vote again.

Maybe one day someone will fight for what's right, rather than choosing to play nice. But they'll do it only if we insist on it.

[LittleClarkie]

20. Normally, your average candidate will concede sometime that night

not the next morning. I still fail to see how that was so darned speedy.

Or is that too "kerrybot" of me to say?

[jgraz]

21. Not kerrybot, but a little forgetful

Remember, Ohio was called by the MSM very late in the night. When Kerry conceded, there were still thousands of outstanding votes and hundreds if not thousands of allegations of fraud.

Kerry's concession was only based on the outstanding, uncounted votes. He said nothing about the fraud allegations, even though he's on record as clearly believing many of them.

To me, that was the decision of a coward. Sure, Kerry could have looked foolish if all the evidence had come in against him, but that's a risk I expect my candidate to take.

We need to admit that his decision was wrong and his reasons for making it were wronger. Otherwise, we take the risk that the next candidate will give up on us instead of fighting for what is right.

[LittleClarkie]

23. I still maintain that there were people in place in Ohio and in his campaign

who were not on his side. But one rumor I heard was that, rather than giving in, he was set up for a fall.

And I do think he knows he was wrong then. He himself has said that. You're right, he's said he believes in the fraud. But not that night. After. He said he believed what he was told. I'd like to know who did the telling.

I found it suspicious that Carville was in contact with the Republican camp, for instance. Perhaps there were too many Clintonistas in the mix.

[karynnj]

61. There's a simpler explanation

When Kerry went to Kenyon College to give the commencement speech, he also did some Ohio stops to help Strickland. Kerry in one report spoke of how there was cheating - but that much of it was not illegal. They used every loophole the law had to suppress the vote.

The problem is you can't get votes never cast.

[ProSense]

24. You went from a totally disgusting post lampooning Kerry's campaign

to calling him a coward for conceding! Stick with the sarcasm because this all sounds like shit peddling!

[jgraz]

27. Sorry, mom, I'll check with you before posting again

Can you simply not accept disagreement? Kerry isn't a fucking saint. He's a failed candidate who let us down and doesn't deserve my support again.

It's just amazing to me how many people can't accept that not everyone shares their view. I said he was a coward and I provided evidence. I also provided evidence for my "disgusting" (read: waaah you don't agree with me) post.

Please provide evidence that I'm "shit peddling". Wipe your tears off and try an actual debate.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[fedupinBushcountry]

43. What a crock

Show me the proof? Show me where anything has come out of the lawsuits that were filed?

The one thing needed was a whistle blower, and we needed that whistle blower before Jan. 6th. Please show me where was that whistle blower, come on all talk and no facts. I know for a fact that Kerry would have contested the election if he had the PROOF in time, a concession is not binding, oh what you didn't know that.

Don't you dare say that Kerry did not look for it, because that is an outright LIE. I know I was involved on the inside and we were looking at everything and getting everything we could to Kerry. The fact is there was no WHISTLE BLOWER, and for your information every state has their own election laws and many things that went wrong were not even against the law. Now, tell me again, what he didn't do?

[jgraz]

58. If you don't think the concession ended it, you're kidding yourself

Of course, it's not legally binding, but politically it's almost impossible to back away from. It also prevented him from leading the challenge. Instead, he decided to make it look as if he had given up. Which, in politics, is functionally equivalent to actually giving up.

Wednesday morning, we were ready to take to the streets to defend his candidacy. His concession shut all that down. Legal pressure wasn't going to get it done. But political pressure might have. He needed to step up and motivate the people, and he chose not to. At that point, my confidence in Kerry as a viable leader evaporated.

[Old and In the Way]

4. I believe he won, too.

Just like Gore. If he chooses to run again, I'll happily cast my vote for him as well. I really don't know what purpose all of these Kerry threads are serving, but what the hell...lets post away!

[oasis]

7. How soon we forget. (eom)

[Vektor]

8. Great post - thanks -

Actual facts and figures, no snark, just truth.

Holds a lot more water than sarcasm and bitterness.

[geek tragedy]

9. I personally support Michael S. Dukakis.

I mean, he won the primaries too!

[Jim Sagle]

12. Too bad Kerry won't admit he won.

[jgraz]

16. Oooh careful -- that might upset someone

How un-Kerry-like of you. Please try to stay positive. No negatives.

Oh, and could you also ignore any scurrilous attacks on your character? Take the high road -- that's really the best.


Do I really need :sarcasm:?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

26. You're right! My lack of 300-odd posts totally discredit me

I'm also only up to lvl 55 in Warcraft. Does that bother you too? Perhaps I should have skipped some of those recruiting calls for moveon and stayed home on the net.

I'm tired of saying this, but apparently it needs repeating: I gave Kerry over 300 hours of my time and 1000s of my dollars. I went to rallies in two states (CA and WI) and worked my ass off to get that guy elected.

When it came time for him to step up and fight, he let us down. We were all ready to fight and he walked away.

No, people who bash Kerry are not freepers. They're just not demobots who would kiss a dog turd if someone painted a 'D' on it.

And I've earned the right to tell that snivelling fool to sit the fuck down and let the big boys play this time.



edit: becuase speeling is impotent

[beachmom]

28. Next time, stay home and let others volunteer their time

With the way you speak of our last candidate, I don't see you giving off very good vibes to potential voters. What an awful post you just wrote. Yuck.

[jgraz]

34. Very bored now...

You might want stop policing the boards and snotting off to anyone who disagrees with you. That will give you more time to work for Kerry. He'll be the nominee for sure with your intelligent advice.

[Divine Discontent]

38. so you were pissed at him for his

concession to bush... so you believed he would've made a great president? but he's a coward I thought?? the point is, you can't have it both ways.. based on your argument, since he's worthy of being called "a coward" we should be glad he's not president.

the man is nothing that cowardice is. he may have been ill-advised or incorrect in conceding, but you try and prove that the sitting president didn't win when everything, including the media, the secretary of state in ohio, and some in your own party were so much of an obstacle that the effort would've truly been futile. he may be a bit of a dolt at times, but to call him a coward is a tad overboard, and I think that's why you're acting all huffy and arrogant in your responses to anyone that tells you you're wrong for saying that about him.

you can say he sucks as a poli, he makes bad choices, but don't you ever think you can get away with calling him a coward (and yes, that's what you did). he's an american veteran, and that obv. means nothing to you just like the swiftboaters.

[jgraz]

41. I DID believe he'd be a good president

I still believe he'd be OK, but I have much less confidence in him than I did in '04.

Try not to psychoanalyze people through their posts, you'll just look silly. I believe what he did was an act of political cowardice. That's different than saying that he is a coward in everything he does. If you can't make such fine distinctions, then you probably shouldn't read my posts.

The reason I'm "huffy" is that I'm tired of the United Church of Kerry coming down on everyone who wishes to choose another candidate in 2008. Simply by saying that, I've been called a freeper troll, a "shit peddler" and an asshole. Usually by the same three or four people.

Maybe I should put this in my sig: I worked hard for the guy and donated until it hurt. And he let us down. He broke his promise to fight for every vote. And then he admitted that he knew the election was stolen but conceded anyway because he was afraid of being called a sore loser. Being a veteran doesn't give you the right to do that.

I've earned the right to say whatever I want about Kerry the candidate. And as a candidate, I believe he acted like a coward by conceding when he did.



BTW: John McCain is also a veteran, as is Donald Rumsfeld. Should we refrain from criticizing them? Is criticism of any veteran proof that their service is meaningless to you?

[ClassWarrior]

46. Lovely how you bash a fellow Dem mercilessly and hide behind...

...the word "criticism."

While I'm not a big Kerry supporter this time around, we need to remember that the Rape-Publicans are the real enemies, and that when we bash our own people, we damage our own cause.

NGU.

[jgraz]

Because "fellow dem" don't mean shit to me

The Democratic Party isn't my family. I owe them nothing. I work for them because they are the only viable alernative to the freak-show Rethugs.

While we're at it: John Kerry is not "my own people". He's a politician. As such, he needs to earn my support. He doesn't get it just because he sits on my side of the aisle.

As far as "damaging our own cause", what exactly is "our cause"? My cause is to put some fairness back into our economy, get everyone access to healthcare and turn around the horrific damage that the Rethugs have done to our planet and our constitution. And mostly, to take our country back from the sociopathic corporations that are currently running the show. Anyone who supports that is "my people". Anyone who doesn't can go fuck themselves.

[ClassWarrior]

64. Okay, you just shake your tiny fists at the world.

Good luck with that.

NGU.

[fedupinBushcountry]

45. You got that right

I can only imagine how he helped, you know that "Demobot".

[jgraz]

49. How pathetic -- deriding someone for volunteering for YOUR candidate

And with that, you two have given up any right to call for party unity or peacemaking. You reveal yourselves to be simply wide-eyed shills for your boyfriend John, attacking anyone who doesn't demonstrate your level of worship.

Just give it up, get him elected and then you both can apply to be White House interns.

[ProSense]

52. Mirror!

[fedupinBushcountry]

53. Listen pal

you need to stop with your belittling other DUers, read the rules.

[jgraz]

56. Yes, because making snide personal remarks about people you disagree with is totally cool

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spiffarino]

25. I have no doubt the election was stolen, but...

...Kerry is used up.

Please don't get me wrong; he's a fine person and would make a good president, but 2008 isn't likely to be his year. People have too many pre-conceptions (and that includes most of us).

I think 2012 could be different. He needs time to rebuild his public persona and four extra years is plenty of time to do it if he plays it right. I believe he could benefit from leaving the Senate to pursue worthwhile public endeavors. One plus is that Massachusetts is likely to go Dem and we probably won't lose the seat.

I'd like to see JK come back, but I hope he backs off from '08. Gore, Edwards or some lesser-known candidate could give a tough challenge to McCain and his Grand Ol' Pedophiles. Kerry needs to mellow a while.

[jgraz]

51. Kerry can come back, just like Gore

Look at Gore's last six years. I would have never voted for the guy in 2004, but now he's my favorite candidate.

Kerry had to show he's learned from his past failures. So far I've seen nothing of that.

[Diane R]

35. Yes. He was elected President. n/t

[bleever]

40. Man! All this noise about John Kerry! He's getting Kramered out there.

In here too.

Kerry, election theft, why Dems should hate themselves (suppressed snicker), and all the while he's the junior senator from Massachusetts with some committee powers coming his way in the next Congress.

I appreciate this post very much, whether or not Kerry runs again, and if he's my first choice this time.

People trying to get each other pissed off and fired up about how any questions about the 2004 election are erased by creating a wall of sarcastic derision about Kerry's campaign are not without some motivation and support. Otherwise: why bother?

K&R.

[stillrockin]

44. Too bad he didn't have the guts to see it through.

n/t

[zann725]

48. Perhaps a threat...given the Thugs in Power he ran against. His instant concession..given his Past,

IS suspicious.
Didn't Teresa later say, "At least in '08, a Shrub won't be running?"

[jgraz]

50. Yep, my first thought was Skull and Bones -- then I reached for my tinfoil hat

Also -- why did he never mentioned the BushBulge during the debate?

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

55. S and B is B and S

Oh please don't tell me you buy into that crap.

[jgraz]

57. I did say tinfoil hat, didn't I?

Doesn't stop me from thinking it, though. I'm comfortable with being a conspiracy freak. ;)

[zann725]

47. Thanks for reminding all of the Truth. JK is FAR from a "loser" now OR then. NOT #20 unpopular...

as "Countdown" covered (in an alleged poll) extensively today. (Oh...PLEASE D.U. the MSNBC Poll today asking "Who would you vote for in '08?...with Kerry at #20.

Interestingly, the top 16 that MSNBC gave on said poll, were ALL the standard "safe" predictable names the Powers-that-Be have been pushing for some time. So with Kerry at 20, with the top 16 meaningless...the poll meant nothing.

ALSO, watch on HBO the last few weeks, they keep repeating "Hacking the Democracy" about the Computer-fixing in '04. The special is narrated by a voice that sounds EXACTLY like Dan Rather (the EXACT intonations, style). The Documentary is excellent, and shows Computer Specialists performing various tests on machines/systems... showing how the various ways Hack most likely occurred.

So since JK never lost, I'm pushing again for the past-Winner to win THIS TIME...and proud of it.

[Vadem]

59. Yes, I do know that he won for all the g_ddamn good it does! n/t

[bobbie]

62. Actually he failed to lose

I think Mr Skull and Boner was hand picked by the ruling elite to take a dive. He did his best to run the most listless inept campaign ever, but still won--so great is the hatred for Der Fuhrer. Mr. Kerry must have been soooo disappointed.

But "never say live" Kerry pulled it into the crapper by conceding before breakfast. Mission accomplished by the insider.

[nolabels]

63. Scruen again?

So since i don't have time machine to go back and do it again, going forward in time looks like my next best option.
There should be some pretty interesting "gotcha" coming in the next few years so i guess i can wait :-)

[tritsofme]

66. Walter Mondale, Mike Dukakis both won primaries too

Doesn't mean I support them runnning for president today.

[Alexander]

67. Gore finally conceded a month later. Kerry conceded the next DAY.

I like Kerry but I think he can accomplish more in the Senate, or in another position entirely.

Again, Iran-Contra and BCCI would've resonated with voters. Nobody likes corruption. But Kerry didn't ever talk about that.

Why don't the Kerrybots ever address that point? BCCI. Iran-Contra. Neither of which Kerry wanted to talk about.

[jgraz]

68. Yep -- can you imagine the people who would've turned out to support Kerry's challenge?

I'd have been one of the first into the police barricades. The concession stopped any possibility of that.

I'm also with you on the corruption stuff. WHY didn't he talk about that?

[Parche]

69. KERRY

I am with you

KERRY/CLARK 2008



HE IS THE ONE

[janx]

70. It isn't very likely Kerry will get the nomination again so soon.

If he waited for another cycle it might be more likely, but it's not realistic to think that it will happen in 2008.

[jgraz]

72. Agreed -- if he does an "Al Gore" he could possibly rehabilitate himself

But right now, people are still too steamed at him from 2004.

[robcon]

71. Kerry didn't win.

He lost by a significant amount. He ran a terrible campaign.

[jgraz]

73. Whoa -- are you saying the vote count was honest?

[robcon]

74. Yes, it was.

I read Kennedy's 'analysis' in Rolling Stone, and I thought it was amateurish. The flaw was that the exit polls have never, ever been correct.

Kerry lost.

[jgraz]

75. OK, this is not an issue that you and I should be debating

Just too far apart.