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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:27 AM
Original message
Wes Clark: " it is time for us to begin to redeploy"
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 12:29 AM by FrenchieCat
Clark writes in his recent OP-Ed about the fact that Diplomatic negotiations will be required to get us out of Iraq and work towards stabilization of the region via involving the region to sit at the table with non-partisan renowned diplomats......"a consensual solution underwritten by outside guarantors".

And folks, Diplomatic negotiations will be required, whether we like it or not.

All wars ends this way, period.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2006/11/illustration_by_2.html

The right approach is a coordinated diplomatic, legal, economic and security campaign drawing upon broader dialogue in the region and intensified political work inside Iraq.

Here is how to do this:

Establish an effective, sustained shuttle diplomacy within the region.

Form a high-level interagency diplomatic team, representing the White House and secretaries of State and Defense and led by an experienced, respected diplomat.

Begin talks within Iraq, and with all its neighbors, based on a clear set of principles outlined by the team. The goal would be to seek the commitments necessary to achieve our aims inside Iraq and also advance U.S. interests in the region.

U.S. interests include dissuading Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons and its hegemonic aspirations, providing security assurances for the rapidly developing Arab Gulf states and working with our friends in the Middle East to ensure access to oil resources and regional stability.

Iraq would remain whole;
oil revenue would go to the Iraqi people based on a formula they determine;
the rights and security of individuals must be protected;
the United States would have no permanent bases in Iraq;
the covert flow of military arms and equipment into Iraq would be halted;
and the security needs of all states would be respected.

Regional dialogue needed

A permanent Gulf regional security dialogue could emerge that includes Syria and Iran, and the United States could undertake a role as regional security guarantor. Preliminary discussions should lead to a more intensive dialogue with Iran in which security assurances and nuclear programs are discussed.

In terms of diplomacy, our team would engage each state and party, solicit its views and challenge it to participate in moving forward, just as U.S. diplomat Richard Holbrooke did in the Balkans a decade ago. Next steps might include confidence-building measures, hosted discussions between factions, and perhaps one or more larger meetings to conclude firm commitments, timetables or sequence of events.

Of course there are no guarantees, but from such a dialogue should emerge a prescription for U.S. troop levels and activities consistent with our larger interests. Carrots and sticks could be employed. For instance, the factions could vow certain actions in return for U.S. assistance or troop deployments, or redeployments, and possible assistance from neighboring states.

Reaching an understanding on Iraq need not be a lengthy process, but the dialogue must be broadened in scope and participation to be effective. The aim would be a consensual solution underwritten by outside guarantors, not an imposed solution. And finally, military power would have a subordinated and supporting role.



If we don't do this right, the long term dangers are....

far-reaching effects: emboldening Iran, weakening U.S. security promises to friendly states, and even sparking military initiatives by other powers — Turkey or Iran — to deal with the resulting security vacuum. Our weakened position in Iraq also could undercut our leverage in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute.


Edited to add link
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Geeze, my headline is a quote....but somehow, I don't get any play
while the made up "Drudge" headline on another thread that shall not be mentioned does.

how fucked is that? :shrug: :(

:kick:
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Frenchie, you are making me laugh!
:rofl: But I have to get to sleep. Good night!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I know.....it is kinda of funny!
Oh well, I better get used to it. The twisting of words and shit.

Anyways, you've been very nice. Thank you! :hi:
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
59. I wasn't laughing at the situation so much as I was laughing at this:
how fucked is that? :shrug:


:rofl:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. Wes Clark on Washington Journal video link here....
he was on this morning, and it would be important for those who aren't clear on his views on Iraq (considering the smear OP posted) to watch it and then comment.

http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/9906 Just click on the photo of Clark and the video will start to play. 1/2 of if is Q&A!
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. In the article, he says "deployments, or redeployments" should be US bargaining chips
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 12:54 AM by 1932
He says that US offers of deployment OR redeployment could be one of the carrot/sticks to achieve American interests.

Furthermore, what does he mean by deployment/redeployment?

Dictionary says:

redeploy |ˌrēdəˈploi| verb assign (troops, employees, or resources) to a new place or task : units concentrated in Buenos Aires would be redeployed to the provinces.

So, one possible interpretation of the quote is that Clark is saying that the options are to add more troops (deployment) or have the one's there do different work, or all go to Baghdad, with a removal of the troops from Iraq or the region not being an option at all.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The quote 1932, is in the paragraph of his OpEd.....
So I'm not sure what you are even talking about.

"Instead of cutting and running or staying the course, it is time for us to begin to redeploy.

Isn't the point to get them out of Iraq?
Can some go to Afghanistan or is that off limit too?

Is it home for all or nothing? Just asking!
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. And farther down, he says "deployment, or redeployment" -- ambiguos, no?
And then, read the definition of "redeploy." More ambiguity.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. What paragraph?
and why is it ambiguitious....cause you say so and want it to be?

We know AP what you do. I think it would be preferrable if you would go and pile on over there at the Drudge headline OP. There more folks there, and some read like you, so it should be a fun place for you.

Shit, I'm trying to find John Edwards plan, but I can't! Where is it? Do you have it.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Ctrl-F "deploy" in your OWN POST
Of course there are no guarantees, but from such a dialogue should emerge a prescription for U.S. troop levels and activities consistent with our larger interests. Carrots and sticks could be employed. For instance, the factions could vow certain actions in return for U.S. assistance or troop deployments, or redeployments, and possible assistance from neighboring states.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2006/11/illustration_by_2.html

Do you not read what you cut and paste?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Edwards' Iraq plan please?
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. So, this ambiguity doesn't matter at all to you?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Not as much as I'm sorry, I take responsibility.....
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 01:29 AM by FrenchieCat
but I was misled but would have done it differently had I known better, but I didn't. :shrug:

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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. So you just posted something that you don't want to have to discuss?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. There isn't any.
When working negotiations, part of what is negotiated is security.....the Iraqis may say, well we want US Forces out of tikrit and onto the Syrian borders for the next three months while we find ME troops from other countries to start patroling these borders cause we don't want the Syrians patrolling their own border on our side...since they are already on their side. So deploy troops to the border, and redeploy them from Tikrit.

There would be many instances in where various parties would want to shift troops both out and around and from one place to the other.

Makes sense to me....but of course, not to you. What's new?
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. A tool for waging peace
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. whoot....that 2nd link goes to an excellent piece....about
Peace. Negotiating for Peace. Imagine that!
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. Hello.....???
Troops can be carrots OR sticks...

As I said elsewhere -- in some areas, it could be a bargaining chip to say, "If you provide peace this way, we'll remove troops from your area." (Redeploy them.)

In other areas, it could be a bargaining chip to say, "If you give up your grenades against your rivals who are killing your children with 'IEDs,'" we'll make sure you're children stay safe.

Sometimes it does take assurances to lead people to lay down arms.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. well, this sounds quite different than the drudge'ish accusation earlier
Wes has a plan to get the hell out of Dodge in such thoughtful terms. I almost forgot what that sounded like.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. The beauty of Wes Clark on this matter is that is gonna try to do
what's right for everyone. He ain't here to meter out punishment to those who took us into this war as much as he wants to get it done right.

He obviously isn't pandering for any votes from the netroots, that's for sure!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. between you and me
I don't think much of the netroots "gets" General Clark. Some people get queasy with the military background and stop paying attention. He's a most unique Democrat, probably the most sophisticated, scholarly leader we have.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I think You're right.
See AK, I'm not ignoring you!:P
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. why I oughta
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I agree (of course....hahahaha)
The complexity of even the situation we face is escaping many.

It hasn't been called a Pandora's Box for nothing! We really do have the wrong, wrong people in charge and that really is the biggest challenge. Cause its what they decide that will happen....and they will not just withdraw. That just not gonna happen.....so I don't see how calling for that becomes the cure all? I'm just hoping that the Dems in congress are going to look at all of the lying that got us there....to where now even negotiating a diplomatic solution is no longer acceptable to so many. That's scary!

Bush said no to diplomacy....and now a large majority of liberals are saying the same thing. It is eerily Ironic!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. it's the hard work people don't understand
The expectation for some is that we will pack our bags and just leave. It is so much more complex than that. Just extracting Bush's cronies' fingers off the oil will be a feat in itself.

Anyway, K&R for you just cuz.
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
31. thank you
in a few words you managed to voice my thoughts...it would have taken me three paragraphs...
windbreeze
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. I think this part is really important:
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 01:46 AM by Clarkie1
"In terms of diplomacy, our team would engage each state and party, solicit its views and challenge it to participate in moving forward, just as U.S. diplomat Richard Holbrooke did in the Balkans a decade ago. Next steps might include confidence-building measures, hosted discussions between factions, and perhaps one or more larger meetings to conclude firm commitments, timetables or sequence of events."

Clark is not against timetables, he's against arbitrary timetables based on nothing. A Clark-based timetable would be achieved through real diplomacy with all of the players in the region and based in real time events.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Of course.....
and actually what will really happen (because the Bush admin wouldn't go any further) eventually is much closer to what Clark is proposing then the Pull out yesterday mantra.
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dmosh42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
26. These objectives are within reach
The problem being Bush. He doesn't want to talk to anyone who might be able to assist in this. I do suspect that someone, maybe the Baker group, has been conferring with the surrounding countries. Saudi Arabia, Syria and Iran have all been making statements that they wouldn't mind being involved. We may have to wait until the Dems have actual control of the congress, and get these committees going, so we can see what's the holdup? From what I have been picking up in bits and pieces of news, we have invested billions in building bases in Iraq for what was planned to be a permanent stay, something like we used to have in the Philipines. And then there's the other bonanza, oil. Maybe Bush feels he can drag this out, the public will lose interest, and they can somehow, keep these bases intact. Another little item is that everyone is hoping for this Baker group to offer up some hope. Well, we all know Baker is a member of the 'Carlyle Group', and the Bush family is also part of that group, so don't count on anything real, except killing time. Let's face it, if Bush was sincere, he could have Wes Clark do the job Baker has, and in two months there would be redeployment going on.
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
27. On Washington Journal this morning
Clark said that we can't win in Iraq militarily, but we can definitely lose militarily. He had a lot more to say about Iraq, but what I took from it is that he believes we need to remain in Iraq in the immedate future, at least until we can get other middle eastern entities involved in stabilization. He has some excellent political strategies to offer and as much as I would like to see us out of Iraq tomorrow, Clark doesn't sugar-coat the costs of immediate withdrawal, not just for the people in Iraq, but for the entire middle east.

If anyone else watched the segment and interpreted Clark's words differently, please correct me, but I definitely got the impression that Clark is not in favor of pulling out until we are able to make some progress politically.
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Yes, that is what I heard also
I posted his actual words here on another thread, where others mis-interpeted his remarks:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2993252
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Stay the course?
i watched the segment and am now confused, is diplomacy the same as a tactical plan? Otherwise, he seemed to be agreeing with Hillary's position, which has been heavily debated on DU :shrug:

He's a lovely person, but I just didn't get it. I guess Clark supporters had set my hopes too high that he wasn't just another polico working the middle. He needs to lean more towards the Civil War debate and get those troops the hell out of there.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
28. APPLAUSE
There is nothing quite like a sound bite. Nicely done Frenchie.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. I think that competing manufactured "sound bite" has a better hook tho' n/t
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. It really does pain me to see Wes Clark's words turned on their head
It really is a cheap thing to do.

However, understanding how folks will hear what they want to hear from who they want to hear it from also explain how some folks could still support George Bush.

Foreign policy is not a game and I wish people would think more seriously about what those who ar expert in the matter of war and peace are sharing with us.....experts like General Clark. It is a frightening thought that there are folks who would want to twist his words for sheer political reasons, and that so many would go along with that kind of a wacked out approach just to put Clark's advice in a bad light in order to bolster others who haven't even been gracious or courageous enough to offer any solutions what-so-ever.

I saw Wes' C-Span performance today, and I have to say........that is what a wise leader looks like. Leading is much more than coming up with catchy soundbytes, championing already popular issues and looking the part. It's about explaining where you stand and why. It's about providing wisdom and ideas to give us food for thought, and not attempting to say what is popular just because it is popular.
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capi888 Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. So true Frenchie!!
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 01:05 PM by capi888
Just had back and forth with one on another thread. Those who are not open minded, and politically look at every Foreign Policy comment negatively, from prospective candidates, other then the one they support as a threat, is insane!!! Heck, I even listen to * just to TRY to understand where he is coming from...(which is impossible, but keep trying)
This is NOT a game, this is REAL!!! Serious for all Americans and the WORLD. No one understands this better then our General. He is NOT politicizing this WAR....and is why he hasn't decided on a run for President as of YET! Country before Politics...and HE MEANS IT!!!
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. He didn't mention redeployment.
With all due respect to Gen. Clark, how can you be an "expert" without current intel. He also echo'd Hillary's talking points about Iraq this morning....we've got to make nice with the world first!?

That's a given. Diplomacy is not a tactical war plan.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. lol... Clark doesn't "echo Hillary's words"
sheesh.

Who's the expert, Clark or Hillary?
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Yes he does, from what on saw on WJ this morning.....
I'm really trying to give you (generic) the benefit of the doubt that Clark is the Saviour of Mankind.

I would vote for Hillary as the expert, I'm sure she has more intel by virtue of being an active member of the Senate. Clark did indeed parrot Hillary's position on the WJ this morning. There's nothing wrong with that, Clark means well, but I don't think the Cspan appearance helped his poll numbers :shrug:

Clark needs to relax and be more himself in front of the cameras. Who knows, he may be a diamond in the rough, and I promise, I won't give up on him :toast:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. No he doesn't.....
that just what you want to say in hopes that your negativity will help your very own "Saviour of the beautykind". Don't worry, your boy will get all kinds of attention before it is all over. But if I were you, instead of questioning Gen. Clark's expertise, I'd be more worried about those Obama threads. Wes Clark is not your "Saviour"'s rival, although I guess you don't get that yet.

Clark ain't as interested in poll numbers as some other "blow in the wind" candidates who's naked ambition doesn't even allow them to even discuss much about Iraq except for some superficial stuff.

Clark stands up when everyone else is hiding. Your Saviour is nowhere to be heard unless the coast is clear.

How's that for **snarks**?

Plus I'm bookmarking this to show that person that was saying that Edwards supporters don't poop in Clark threads. It would have been something else if your *snarky* comments made any sense, but they didn't....making you look more obvious than a little bit.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Thanks frenchie
I have to just learn to find a level of ignorance that I will not respond too. The post above is well below (that level).
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Who says General Clark has no current "Intel"?
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 03:05 PM by FrenchieCat
You actually don't think that General Clark has no relevant contacts? I assure you that this would be naive. He'll be in Dubai next week invited by the Arab Strategic Forum to speak!http://www.ameinfo.com/102965.html

Now why would he speak if he has nothing but what's at the top of his head without having briefed by those he still communicate with. Please don't underestimate Wes Clark in that manner. That is really a naive approach to even have! :eyes:

Diplomacy is a Plan working toward PEACE....which Wes Clark has participated in before. The Dayton Peace Accords were not a tactical war plan in the least....so again, please get informed instead of just making statements not well thought out.

In addition, all serious politicos, including John Edwards echoes the sentiment that we must make amends with the world community. This is not a Hillary talking point, it's a common sense truth.

My goodness, if your comments reflect what your insights are on the issue of Foreign relations, that's kinda of scary!
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. He's retired....
...not the same kind of intelligence you get off the internet :) Why do you keep bringing John Edwards into the discussion?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. He's retired and? What are the rules for the "retired".....do you even know
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 03:51 PM by FrenchieCat
Do you know for certain that he doesn't have contact from those on the ground in Iraq (cause he does)? Do you honestly think that he doesn't have friendships cultivated over his 34 year career span of those that are still in the forces? Do you know that he doesn't have contacts all over the middle east and Europe...with those he worked with when he was in the military--such as various heads of states, etc...? Do you know whether he's not talking to anyone in the State Dept. (as he worked as one of them before), or the CIA, or the Pentagon, or the Strategic Planning unit which he was part of? Do you not think that he talks to folks like Sy Hersch, Robin Wright and Dana Priest (all fine journalists) and others who also get their information without going thru the White House....and even there, there are contacts to be had.

Do you think that Clark got to be a Fellows at the Burke Institute due to his lack of knowledge, understanding and contacts as to what's going on?

Do you think General Clark is a lightweight or something.......cause that's what it sounds like you've totally underestimated the lifetime career of General Clark. :shrug:

Wes Clark, regardless of whether he gets pundit media attention or not, is a heavyweight....in particular in the Foreign relations arena. Please keep that in mind in issuing out future comments.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I'm married to a retired Marine Colonel
He has opinions, but reminds me they are just opinions, not based on current intel, and he votes Rebublican, a Bush supporter and agrees with Wesley Clark's position on the War.

I wish I could be more clear for you.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Plu-Eaze.....
You are comparing your husband to Wes Clark in terms Intel Sources to rationalize your thoughts that Wes Clark doesn't have any? Come on now...you can do better than that.

The fact that you are married to a Bush supporter is a sad revelation, but has little to do with Wes Clark and his knowledge, IMO.

For you not even to concede that, in truth, you have no idea of who Clark talks to would be a more honest approach.....and it would be more accurate as well.

Sorry to hear about your husband though...but if he is agreeing with Wes Clark's position, than there may be a reason that such a smart gal as yourself married him in the first place! :)
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Sad.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Could be worse!
Chin up! ;
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Are you serious?
You don't debate issues, do you? You just post to kick your own threads :shrug:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #44
61. I'm retired too
I don't have any real intel any more than your husband does.

But Clark is not in the same catagory. He may not have access to classified information per se. But not all intelligence is classified. Clark has contacts all thru the active duty military and among civilians all thru the Middle East and Europe (for example, he will be at a conference in Dubai for a few days next week). He most certainly has intelligence sources that you and I can barely even imagine.
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imlost Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
37. Clark has a plan and he has the balls to put it out there. Let's hear
other plans. Who else has one?
I don't mean vague bullshit either.

Clark isn't scared to piss people off or go with the new tide.


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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Is this a twist from yesterday's of "No withdrawal"?
or is some of the news stories been cherry picked and twisted?

Militarily you have to pull the troops out of the city encampments and into the field before a realistic peace can take place anyway. So if we need to applaud someone for common sense sign me up
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. Ahem...
Obama proposed a plan earlier this month. If you read it through, it is far from vague. The Obama and Clark proposals aren't mutually exclusive- in fact, I think elements of both could be implemented together with some effectiveness. Unfortunately, the potential outcomes for Iraq still range from terrible to horrifically catastrophic, even with the best of plans.

www.obama.senate.gov/speech/061120-a_way_forward_in_iraq/index.html
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
48. Warm fuzzy'n'fluffy diplomatic plans?
As he presented on Cspan this morning? I thought he was the King of War Plans?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Are you losing it?
Warm and Fuzzy? Serious discussion on what to do in Iraq?

What's up with that? Are you frustrated or something?

Warm and Fuzzy is a book edited about celebrity "Homes" getting national attention on shows like Charlie Rose, etc.... :eyes:
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Uh
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 04:53 PM by Catchawave
Home is not a position on the Iraq War.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Doh.....but it IS "warm & fuzzy"........which were your words in describing a serious discussion
on the Iraq issue.

This is warm and fuzzy:


This is tragically NOT! :cry:



You need to be a bit careful on how you play in these here threads. Cause your Snark ain't even funny OR entertaining!
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. Wes has street cred on the issue
and is a known national security expert to Democrats in the Senate and House. He's also close to Jim Webb. Other candidates can show off passport stamps, he can show a won war.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. and a Peace Treaty that is still holding after a decade! n/t
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
60. While I think Biden's three state solution is inevitable anyway, Clark is the one person...
who has real-time experience in dealing with a situation much like the one in Iraq which was in the Balkans. Considering the fact that he simply performed a miracle there, I am willing to give his ideas more than the benefit of doubt. Wes Clark doesn't shoot from the hip on such matters.

In fact, when it comes to Iraq, only Wes Clark, Joe Biden and John Kerry have really offered anything substantive. Hillary, is obviously gaming the issue by avoiding it. That's sad. What has John Edwards put forth as to a solution to Bush's catastrophe? I'm hopeful that all Democrats will address this issue. The American people are hoping/expecting them to. We can't let them down.

The troops need to come home.

Thanks for the post and the link.
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