Clark would provide a great contrast to Bush's clever ineptitude...

[rumguy]

I watched Clark on C-Span at that NH VFW pancake gathering/meeting. I watched as he worked the crowd, he was warm and open, with real charisma. But more than a cheerful warth, he also radiated a cool competancy...but it wasn't an in your face I'm better than you type of compentancy, but rather it's just the way he is, always.

Bush often plays the bumbling inept "cowboy" - who winks as he mangles words and makes an ass of himself.

Gore challenged him on this, but Gore at times came accross as kind of like a teacher's pet, scolding the class clown.

Clark's essential nature would challenge Bush's "down-home" bumbling. People naturally respect a competancy that comes from the core of a person's being. Everything about Clark, the direct way he talks, the sharp way he can make a point, the easy precise almost feline way he moves, would highlight Bush's ineptitude in a way that makes it seem juvenile and stupid.

Seriously, even when watching him flip those pancakes at the VFW gathering, it was clear to everyone present that this is a capable and serious man - one you would want on your side, and one that you implicitly just trusted.

[Padraig18]

1. Of course he would provide a contrast.

Any of our candidates would provide an incredible contrast with the Unelected Fraud.

[Jim Sagle]

2. And so would Dean.

[rumguy]

4. yes, but not in the way Clark would...

[Jim Sagle]

9. No, but in a different way.

[rumguy]

10. Yes, but not in a way that would be an equivalent way...

[robbedvoter]

3. He has the Clinton gifts - contact with people and simplicity - putting

complex concepts in simple terms - appearing coloquial, rather than professorial - like Gore did. I saw him working the crowd several times - people are hooked after a few minutes with him. He is what is called a "happy warrior"
see Matt Miller essay:

My wife has a foolproof test for assessing a politician's true nature.


Try this at home. Turn off the volume on the TV when the politician in question is speaking and look at their face for a few minutes. It's an unerring test of whether at bottom they're a "happy warrior" or not. Whether they're someone who naturally conveys that life-affirming sense of optimism, zest and even joy amidst political combat - a quality that for most of us is supremely attractive in a leader.


Or whether instead they're someone who seems more like an angry sourpuss.


I much prefer happy warriors, though history suggests it's not a prerequisite for going all the way. FDR, JFK and Ronald Reagan were happy warriors; Richard Nixon was not. Bill Clinton was a happy warrior; Al Gore was not."

[rumguy]

5. I do that too - turn off the volume and just watch a person's face

It's interesting when ya do that - you find out if they are really having fun and are excited about what they're saying.

I see that quality in Clark...

Bush has this quality as well.

[Hawkeye-X]

17. so does Dean..

and he connects with everyday people on a daily basis while he was a Governor of Vermont. I have this book, "Howard Dean: The man would would be President" by several reporters of Vermont, and each article has clearly shown that he truly tries to make an effort to connect with the Vermonters, and I believe he's doing the same with the nationl.

Hawkeye-X

[meti57b]

6. in addition to all his other terrific qualifications .....

Clark makes a great appearance! He has a terrific personality, he is like-able, he both is and sounds intelligent, educated and logical, he can think on his feet, he is good-looking which is something I believe has at least a subliminal effect on people.

You have to be a good politician to get promoted to general. I think Clark has the smarts to handle any situation he finds himself in. Clark can win!!

[farmers]

7. Bravo!

Clark's got the like-ability, and can pull independents and conservative Dems. Bush's worst nightmare.

[newyawker99]

31. Hi farmers!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[MariaS]

8. A trait I admire

He expands on his reasons for coming to the conclusions he does by focusing on the subject and making his listen understand the nuances that surround it. I feel that every time I listen to him speak I learn something new and enlightening about a number of topics. He is a good teacher and that is a trait I think is very important in a leader.

[arewethereyet]

11. I hear what you're saying but, no

he's flipped too often for me to trust him on anything and I've seen his cocky side.

Once he earns his stripes in the political arena then perhaps he could pull off what you see occasionslly but not this time.

[rumguy]

12. you got a long way to go

[arewethereyet]

14. as do we all

n/t

[ClarkGraham2004]

13. Yes, because Dean's just been doing awesome in that regard <sarcasm>

[arewethereyet]

15. Dr Dean has surpassed General Clark in that regard (opinion)

They both could learn a great deal from Senator Graham or Senator Edwards or Senator Kerry or Senator Gephart or Congressman Kucinich for that matter.

[OrAnarch]

16. Anyone besides lieberman would.

Point of the thread? :)

[rumguy]

18. The point is that the contrast would be marked and effective with Clark

[MoonRiver]

19. Yes, and it will be immediately apparent in debates between the two.

That's what the Rove machine is desperately afraid of. Clark is a charismatic Rhodes scholar, self-made career military man, who's strong on national security, with liberal social policies. He attracts voters from across the political spectrum. Bottom line: if we want to beat bush* we nominate Clark.

[arewethereyet]

20. up until Bush thanks him for all his past support

and how much it has meant to so many republicans over the years.

After that I doubt he'll even need to get to the military matters.

Might as well face it, that stuff will not go away.

[rumguy]

21. yeah right "all his past support" - including voting for Gore

Clinton, lol!!!

[MoonRiver]

22. How long will they keep beating that dead dog?

:D

[arewethereyet]

25. until our candidate is selected

after that, the right will revive the supposedly dead dog and begin beating it in ernest.

I knew it was probably fruitless but I have to try and get past rose colored glasses while there is still a chance.

[MoonRiver]

26. That's what we have to do.

I honestly feel like this election is the last chance to save America for many years to come. Clark is the one who has the best chance to do this and bring our country back to national and international normalcy. Because I feel so strongly about this, I must keep fighting for him.

[arewethereyet]

27. we all have to do what we feel is right

and if your eyes are open and you still feel that way then more power to you.

For me I like a guy who crafted a platform out of principle and has stayed with it steadfastly and unerringly. Because of it, he has kept his dialog about his own vision and not highlighting the issues of others. I back John Edwards and I mean to help others see that same light I saw all those months ago.

[MoonRiver]

28. We're all fighting for the same principle and out of dedication

to our country. :grouphug: May we never forget this.

[arewethereyet]

23. I would probably start with Dubya and the cabinet

he could even play the tape !

Did Nero laugh while Rome burned ? I don't think it was the romans...

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shivaji]

29. Clark's perceived "electability" vs. his negatives.........

Clark supporters keep saying he more electable. Based on what? That he has military background? Is that supposed to draw voters from the other side? Have you guys forgotten the wise words of our esteemed president Truman "given a choice between a real republican and a republican lite, they will vote the republican everytime". It is ludicrous to assume any repug voters will perceive Clark to be stronger in fighting terrorism than the Texas cowboy and switch their votes based on that. Or is Clark supposed to pull in repug votes since Clark has been a republican 20 times longer than he has been a democrat? Gimme a break.

What we need is someone who will energize our base and make them make an effort to get away from the couch in front of the TV and make an effort to vote. When Rove shows video's of Clark praising Bush*, Rummy, Condi and the gang, relentlessly repeated in october TV commercials, it will not only confuse our base voters, but de-energize them from voting. Dean has been a democrat all his life, has never lost an election, won six so far, and has that strong personality to energize voters.

Clark's lack of political experience on the stump concerns me a great deal. Just look at his response to a question about outsourcing of jobs out of the country..."let software jobs go to India, we will find something else to do here". That was the worst possible thing to say on record. Rove and his machine will eat this political novice alive on the campaign trail. We need someone like Dean, who is an experienced politician, can think on his feet and has a strong personality and robust appearance.

Finally, don't forget Dean has actual executive experience in an elected political position, and has actually instituted a statewide health care system. With its exploding costs, health care will be one of the biggest issues in the GE. Who is more qualified to address this issue than a full fledged medical doctor, Dr. Dean? Not Clark. Not certainly Bush*.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

32. I keep hearing the refrain

"energize the base" here from Dr. Dean's supporters and I would ask, which base?

The base that says, "I can't see giving up our principles for a win (a paraphrase of statements I've seen on this board) or the base that says, "we need to pull in the moderates & independents to have any hope of winning."? :shrug:

It seems there is more than one take on what constitutes the democratic base. And more and more it seems to center around the Clinton vs. Gore attitudes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I often get the impression that Dean's staunchest supporters want no truck with (showing my age here) anyone who doesn't desire to toe the extreme left ideology. Then they turn around and say Dean really isn't as liberal as he sounds right now...that's he's really a moderate and will show that in the general election.

Is the American electorate really going to buy a few slim months of moderate jargon after over a year of liberal pronouncements? How many times do moderates need to hear, "we don't need you," before they shrug and say, "fine, you don't get us"?

When was the last time the Democratic base actually pulled off an election?

[Myra]

30. Amazing how the most undeniable truth is now attacked on DU.

And yet, Clark does contrast very well with Bush.
So sorry if that fact bums people out.

[MIMStigator]

33. It takes alot of effort and denial to support some candidates

Some candidates are making their fans try harder and harder to find ways of explaining their mistakes and records and statements and ways they can win. It takes less effort for the supportes of other candidates like Clark.