Breaking MSNBC: Hillary Clinton Opposes Troop Escalation

[Infinite Hope]

Scarborough just announced that she has released a statement saying she "I cannot support" an escalation.

[k8conant]

1. I see that now too...Can it be true? n/t

[superconnected]

2. in other words she just saw the gallup poll and it's pointing south.

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Ex-fucken-actly.

Obama got points for his stance, and she's gotta get some of those too.

[Diane R]

5. You nailed it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. The next President

good, I'm glad she she opposes it

[Kelvin Mace]

7. Sadly,

you may be right.

[bilgewaterbill]

9. Betcha a buck she's not. nt

[Kelvin Mace]

6. After checking with her advisors

pollsters and focus groups.

[cui bono]

8. Hillary is a strong woman but

she ain't no leader.

She can't speak out on anything without taking the temperature first. And she panders to opposition groups way too much.

[MGD]

10. Would you rather a leader who just jumps into the water without checking the temperature first?

That sounds to me like a surefire way to piss off everybody. It also sounds a lot like President Bush incidentally.

[cui bono]

13. Not at all, but what do you think the word leader means?

It doesn't mean follow the polls. Surely that's not a quality of leadership. Leadership means gathering the facts, listening to the experts and making a decision. Following polls isn't getting opinions from informed people who are experts in their fields and have the necessary information.

[MGD]

14. GW has stated many times that he doesn't care about polls and he then acts accordingly

Would you call him a good leader?

"Leadership means gathering the facts, listening to the experts and making a decision."
I don't think that is necessarily the be all end all of a leadership definition. I think it's more accurately described as a collection of skills, qualities, characteristics, and traits that enable a person to attract and retain followers. That being said, pissing people off by acting contrary to their beliefs and values does not a good leader make; therefore, paying attention to the polls is as good a way as any to retain the support of your constituency (which is no easy endeavor to begin with in a tent such as ours).

"Following polls isn't getting opinions from informed people who are experts in their fields and have the necessary information."
A false dilemma you present as the two concepts aren't mutually exclusive. Hillary is competent, experienced, and intelligent enough to obtain expert opinions if and when necessary. I don't mean to turn this into a fight of any kind mind you. I just happen to like Hillary (in case you couldn't tell) and feel a need to defend her occasionally.

[cui bono]

15. Well a true leader, a good one, not a W, does what they know is right

and best for the country and its people. Sometimes it's what the people want and sometimes it's not, sometimes they think it's not but a good leader will show them why it's necessary. And we're talking about good and real leadership, not W. Invoking Bush every time you want to defend her or argue someone's point isn't lending credibility to your argument as we all know Bush isn't a real leader, he is simply in a leadership position. And it sounds just like those who always bring up Clinton when someone criticizes Bush. ;)


Anyway, I'm against her running for president. I think she can't win she's way too middle of the road and corporatist for my tastes. And from the other comments made here, obviously that's how a lot of people see her as an opportunist as do I, so there must be something to it. Maybe you/she can look at that and think about why that is and see how she can change that perception if you think it is incorrect and want her to gain our support.

But anyway, clearly we won't be changing each other's minds tonight so... sleep tight and see you around the board. :)

[jamesinca]

16. Bush does not gather facts or listen or look at polls or....

He cherry picks and lies. Makes up stuff as he goes along.

[qwlauren35]

17. Taking the temperature...

if I recall, is something Bill Clinton tended to do as well.

However long it took her to get a clue, I'm glad she's FINALLY opposing the war.

[cyr330]

11. Her private polling firm must have told her to do it

She never does anything she thinks may be unpopular and always has her finger in the wind. . . It's been obvious to everyone that an "escalation" is a stupid ass thing to do, and she's just getting around to saying so?

[oasis]

12. Good timing. She creates "breaking news" by not being lumped in with other senators.

:thumbsup:

[Javaman]

18. However, if I recall, she doesn't support a withdrawal...

So she's okay then with letting them twist in the wind?

It's a bizarre kind of logic.