Fitz: Champ, Chump, or Chimp?

[Seabiscuit]

To his credit, Fitzgerald won a conviction against "Scooter" Libby today for perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements. It took him well over 3 years, however.

The one juror who spoke to the press today mentioned how the jury kept asking: "Where's Karl Rove"? They were frustrated and angered that Libby had become the "fall guy" for Cheney and Rove, implying they knew there was ample evidence to convict both of them as well. He made it clear the evidence showed Libby was carrying out Cheney's orders to leak Plame's identity to the press.

I for one view the federal statute as written as unenforceable, as it creates insurmountable barriers to prosecution. The standard of proof is impossibly high.

But what about charges of treason? Rove clearly committed perjury so why wasn't he indicted? Cheney was behind it all, and Bush went along with it.

Until Fitzgerald turns all his evidence over to the House Judiciary Committee who can then use it to further investigate impeachment proceedings against Cheney and Bush, he hasn't finished his job, IMHO.

So what does DU think? Is Fitz a Champ, a Chump, or a Chimp?

[babylonsister]

1. Without Fitz, I don't think we would have gotten this far. Another lawyer

might have folded like a cheap suit, and a lot earlier.

[Seabiscuit]

2. What? Not a single vote for "Chimp" yet???

Remember to post something when you vote, folks, or this poll will sink to page 2, 3,... fast.

[Penndems]

3. He's somewhere between "chump" and "chimp"

Libby got thrown under the bus by Bush, Cheney and Rove. The low man on the totem pole was the scapegoat.

However, he was guilty of the charges the jury convicted him of.

[tulsakatz]

4. champ!

At least Fitz got a conviction! If he had gone for treason or some other charge that most Dems would have wanted, he might not have been able to convict.

Yes, it would have been nice to get Cheney and Rove too. Personally I still think there is a sealed indictment with Rove's name on it.

[Seabiscuit]

5. Fitz already told the press today there would be no further indictiments

and that his investigation was over. That's one of the reasons I voted "Chump".

[emulatorloo]

12. Fitz qualified the statement -- no new charges unless they receive new information

and additionally said

"If (Libby's) counsel or he wish to pursue any options, they can contact us."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x353668

On edit -- So who knows what might happen. Certainly not you or me.

My guess is that Cheney is going to come under some serious pressure politically. And I am not so sure Bush will pardon Libby. Why should he? Cheney is dead weight on the Bush admin now.

And then there is the Wilson's Civil case. . . wonder if any new information will come from that?

Personally I am not surprised that Fitz talks like a lawyer -- very carefully. But then again, I am not looking for a cloud in every silver lining.

[Seabiscuit]

14. Agreed. In the meantime, Fitz...

should hand over copies of his files in this case to John Conyers so that the House Judiciary Committee can begin an investigation into the impeachment of Cheney (and who knows, they may nail Bush in the process... how could Cheney orchestrate this whole Plame thing without Bush's knowledge and consent at the very least?).

If done expeditiously then within the year we may all be spelling out the words P.R.E.S.I.D.E.N.T. P.E.L.O.S.I. :)

[emulatorloo]

15. Fitz said he was willing to do so if Conyers asked -- did you write Conyers yet?

on the Pelosi thing, :toast:

[Seabiscuit]

16. I'm going to write Conyers right now!

[Seabiscuit]

6. A vote for "Chimp"!!!! Awwww, right!!!!!!!!!!

[madrchsod]

7. fitzgerald did as much as he could do with what he had

the case was about libby and no one else. he got 4 out of 5 and the most important charge of obstruction. the jury realized that libby was the fall guy for rove,cheney,and the president. libby is now a convicted felon who was number 3 or 4 in the inner circle. the jury of 11 people up held the concept that in the united states no man is above the law. all in all a great day for justice and a horrible day for our republic.

[KingofNewOrleans]

8. He's a Champ, I just wish he could roll it up to the Chimp

masquerading as a President.

[Seabiscuit]

9. 78% Champ, 3% Chimp???

[Seabiscuit]

17. With 56 votes cast, Fitz now 68% Champ, 25% Chump, and 7% Chimp!

Not a very nice way to characterize someone, is it? :)

[PhilipShore]

10. Chimp - he's part of a neocon conspiracy to protect the White House -- n/t

[emulatorloo]

13. yeah, right . . . . . n/t

[izzybeans]

11. Here's to holding out hope that he isn't a chimp.

:toast:

It seems to me that some of the evidence against others in the trial is at the very least grand jury ready. If a cloud is hanging over Cheney why not bring the thunder?

[Catherine Vincent]

18. This poll is Crap. n/t

[Seabiscuit]

20. Why, thenk yew!!

... fer da kick!

:kick:

[Catherine Vincent]

21. You're welcome!

:)

[Seabiscuit]

22. With an army of cat-girl25's on my side, I could make threads last for months!

:rofl:

[Cha]

19. Here's a very interesting article by

Michael Tomasky that says just what we have since Patrick Fitzgerald got a conviction.

"...So what does this mean? At least three important things. First, the verdict means that it's now been officially established in a court of law that the administration was engaged in a campaign to discredit an undercover officer and a diplomat, Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson. Libby's defense - that he learned about Plame's identity from journalists - paralleled the administration's public arguments that it made no effort to try to expose Plame and Wilson to criticism. The jury didn't buy that.

Second, the verdict vindicates the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald. Mountains of calumny have been heaped on him by the right since he brought the indictment against Libby. Conservatives were waiting for an acquittal to pounce on Fitzgerald, on Wilson, on Plame - and on Democrats and liberals generally for having made a federal case out of nothing. They would have used an acquittal to shut down all the talk about the manipulation of pre-war intelligence, which was Joe Wilson's initial accusation. And not only conservatives - a lot of the paragons of Washington morality (yes, an oxymoron) were waiting, too. Bob Woodward, who used to be a great investigative reporter, once called Fitzgerald a "junkyard dog prosecutor". Can't be said now.

Third and most important, the guilty verdict means that pre-war intelligence manipulation will continue to be a political issue. When it was in Republican hands, the United States Senate summarily shut down an inquiry into the matter. Now that Democrats are in charge, they will pursue it. The trial was focused on Libby, but questions remain about how directly Cheney and chief presidential aide Karl Rove were involved in all this. The verdict gives Democrats, who by dint of their majority control can now subpoena administration officials, added momentum to turn over the rocks. A juror said that Libby, though guilty, was just a "fall guy". Congress now has to look higher than Libby's level, especially at Cheney.

Far from being the sideshow that conservatives and moralists like Woodward described, this trial was always centrally about the Iraq war. The Bush administration built much of its case for invasion on lies. When those lies were exposed, its response was to try to destroy the whistleblowers - even one who was a covert CIA officer.

Here's what one noted American had to say about this kind of behavior: "I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors." The speaker was George Bush Sr, in 1999. And that's exactly what his son oversaw."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x267011

[Seabiscuit]

23. Good article! n/t