What CAN be done to effect "Out of Iraq NOW?"

[Sparkly]

Let's assume you believe the best course of action is "out of Iraq now." (This isn't to argue whether or not that is the best course of action.)

What CAN be done to make it happen? There's a lot of heartfelt frustration, grief, fear, and anger here, and understandably so. But it seems we go in circles about those feelings, and strike critical postures against the Democrats in Congress who agree with us. What would we have them do?

I'm going to have an argument with myself here:

"Cut off funding."
But the votes to cut off funding aren't there.

"Get the votes."
Considering how difficult it was to get a majority to vote for the bill that passed, how can they get the votes?

"Persuade more representatives to vote to cut off funding."
How can they be persuaded?

"Explain to them what's going on and how wrong it is!"
Do we think they're unaware? Did the anti-war Democrats fail somehow to inform them?

"We need stronger anti-war leadership in Congress!"
What can they do that they aren't doing?

"Something! We must make them take stronger action, by withholding our votes until they do what we want them to do!"
If "we" are a minority view, and they/their constituencies believe "out now" isn't the way to go, that's futile.

"Then we must express our outrage by stomping our feet and holding our breath until we turn blue!"
How's that working out?

I've always contended that what CAN be done at the grassroots, on any issue, is to persuade people around us, organize, write, talk, call, advocate, etc. in various ways -- in other words, build a stronger, wider constituency. You CAN make your voice heard, and it's very important that we do.

But we should think about what we're saying with our voices. What EXACTLY are we asking for, from whom, and how?

Because if we're asking for the moon, from our strongest allies, by means of petulant foot-stamping, we're just wasting energy.

Flame if you must! :hide:

[Frances]

1. GREAT post

Thanks

[mike_c]

2. many of these problems contain their own solutions....

The problem, in most cases, is that "the votes aren't there." That is tantamount to saying that "members of congress do not support solving those problems." Therein lies both the difficulties and the solutions, IMO.

How can we get out of Iraq now? We must force congress to do its duty to get us out of Iraq now, or we must make them accountable for their failure.

[Sparkly]

4. As I see it, you're in the same quagmire.

"Members of congress do not support solving those problems" in the ways you believe would work.

"We must force congress to do its duty to get us out of Iraq now" -- how?

"or we must make them accountable for their failure" -- how?

[mike_c]

5. of course-- we're all in the same quagmire until congress acts decisively....

"Members of congress do not support solving those problems" in the ways you believe would work.

Well no-- I was referring to your proposed solutions-- cutting off funding, etc. Naturally I agree with those solutions, but I wasn't proposing any specific mechanisms. Frankly, I'd have been very happy if the republicans could have managed to defeat the Pelosi supplemental appropriation-- that would have effectively cut off funds for the war. Of course, it would only be the beginning of a long fight, but unless we fight, we will not prevail.

"We must force congress to do its duty to get us out of Iraq now" -- how?

How to get us out of Iraq or how to force Congress to act? In the former case I think blocking funds except specifically for withdrawal and repealing the IWR, thus reverting authority to the 60 days allowed under the War Powers Resolution would do the trick, or at least precipitate a constitutional crisis over the matter.

There are many answers to the latter question but they all come down to raising a loud public outcry against the war, against congressional actions that do not move substantially forward toward getting out of Iraq, and against the Bush administration's desire to continue the conflict. We also need to make it clear that there are no acceptable consolation prizes, like increased U.S. hegemony in the ME or access to Iraqi oil. Again, the best mechanism is probably loud and prolonged public outcry.

"or we must make them accountable for their failure" -- how?

Vote them out of office, refuse to donate to their campaigns, work for alternative candidates, and so on. There are only two consequences that congress understands: loss of money and loss of votes.

[Sparkly]

6. It always comes down to the same thing

especially given your last sentence: a broad consensus among the constituency.

A minority view can't be effective with either "loud outcry" nor by withholding votes and donations (except having the effect of supporting Republican rule).

[mooseprime]

3. only thing i've been able to think of

is carrying around the toll-free number for the capitol switchboard on 3x5 cards. whenever anyone says anything (which seems so little these days, everyone's so shouted down about politics right now) i give 'em a card. almost no one seems to know you can call for free. thing is, since the coercive powers of the state are so great, especially right now, the only thing that makes sense to me is some kind of viral no-more-business-as-usual action. if 100 million of us were calling the capitol offices every single day we could stop everything peacefully. but it sure feels lame. my frustration level is so high it's starting to turn back in on itself in some kind of pernicious feedback loop.

[Sparkly]

7. That's a good idea!

Couldn't hurt! :thumbsup:

"Viral" action among people makes sense. :hi:

[al bupp]

19. Something about the "viral" approach appeals

But what does that mean? Indirect, bottom-up, from under the radar, perhaps, but definitely organic, and maybe having the possibility for exponential growth.

How about we all work-up derisive, bitingly funny stand-up routines to give to friends and colleges at appropriate times?

Nothing seems to shift the zeitgeist quite like cynical humor. I'm thinking of Lenny Bruce, here. Oh, if only we still had his voice!

[Flabbergasted]

8. Stop making excuses for congress perhaps?

[Sparkly]

9. Who? And how would that change things? nt

[Flabbergasted]

10. You and to what effect you will.

[Sparkly]

12. Okay, let's try this.

Let's say I scream, or at least type, as frequently as possible: "I'm mad as HELL that Congress won't vote to cut off the funds for this illegal immoral war!! How dare they!! All they do is make excuses, bow to their corporate masters and cower in fear of their jobs!! We need to hold their feet to the fire!!"

Then what?

[Flabbergasted]

13. Great thats what we should be doing. You'll encourage others to do even more.

[Sparkly]

17. You mean, that's it?

To change votes in Congress, we just rant, and lots of people will suddenly start to agree, and the politicians who don't believe we should withdraw immediately will change their minds and their vote to cut off funding, and a hardline bill will be pass, and Bush will sign it?

Wow.

[Flabbergasted]

18. Rant if that's your role. If you can do more do it. nt

[Sparkly]

21. I think the role of ranting is a bit overrated....

Particularly when it's among Democrats on a Democratic board, and focused on Democrats in the House who've carried the torch in an effort to persuade other Democrats, I don't think it's really effective.

[Flabbergasted]

14. Great thats what we should be doing. You'll encourage others to do even more.

[ProudDad]

11. IMPEACH

bush and cheney

and then PUT THE PRESSURE on Pres. Pelosi...


It's the only way I see before the end of 2009 or middle of 2010...


On Edit:

Or visualize every Congressional office FILLED every day with quiet, law-abiding and relentless anti-war protesters/lobbies.

[Sparkly]

15. Yes, and that too will require support from politicians.

Same story from there, basically.

Investigations may be the first step. Even if it happens (and I really hope it does!), it may not be in time to make any difference to Iraq. Nonetheless, whether it's during their terms in office or afterwards, I hope this whole cabal is held accountable.

[Labors of Hercules]

16. And you plan to get 2/3rds of the Senate to convict HOW?

Until we own a 2/3rd majority in the Senate or an inpenetrable case for conviction, impeachment is simply not an option.

[ProudDad]

23. Impeach

visualize every Congressional office FILLED every day with quiet, law-abiding and relentless anti-war protesters/lobbies.

That's how...

[Labors of Hercules]

24. War protests will not establish a case for an Impeachment conviction...

The war itself has not been proven to be an impeachable offense, yet.
And unless they can help uncover some real evidence of the Administration's fraudulent activities to bring us to war, it won't matter how many protesters you have stuffed in the congressional and Senate office buildings, at least as far as impeachment is concerned...

[PhilipShore]

20. Convince Congress to drag evey member of the PNAC into...

Congressional hearings: anyone that is now or has ever been a member of the PNAC should be on the list. The American public should "demand" that they be questioned in open and public hearings only; all secret discussions should be not be allowed.

If the people could convince Congress to do this -- the War would end very soon, and all the -- GI Joe's -- would leave Iraq.

[Sparkly]

22. All good, but how do you convince the people to convince the Congress

to force the PNAC to testify?

I actually think Congress is not as unaware or inactive as some believe; I think they're more aware of what's necessary, possible, and what steps are needed in what order to get somewhere.