FWIW, My Top 3 From Tonight's Debate

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Biden. Who woulda thunk it.
2. Obama. Nervous and overcoached at first, started to warm up later
3. Edwards. A distant third.

[BeyondGeography]

1. Edwards was too laid back

he needed to do better than he did...the pregnant pause on the moral leader question was painful, but I thought he was generally too low-key in most of his responses. Also, his "high-falutin'" meme aimed at Obama fell flat.

If anyone suffered tonight, I'd say it was him.

[Tellurian]

11. Obama was ok.

I couldn't understand one thing he said..except, my antennae went up when he included the clergy as part of a womans right to choose. Hillary, I thought was a little nervous the first 10 min or so, then she leveled out and her answers were succinct and understanderable. Her responses had a beginning, a middle and an end that related to the question. That was problematic with Obama...imho- The only thing I would add to Hillary was.. her lips looked a little dry for tv...and public speaking does (for some reason or other) make you thirsty.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

14. He should've said Elizabeth was his moral leader

It would have been touching and true.

[elizm]

15. Several people around me said the same thing on the spot...

I watched the debate with about 20 people...and instantly a number of people said the same thing...he should have named Elizabeth.

[chimpymustgo]

30. "Elizabeth" was the quick, easy answer. I really respected that he thought about it,

and answered as he did. Impressive.

[rep the dems]

26. He did mention Elizabeth as one of them, he just didn't say she was

his only moral leader.

[Pirate Smile]

56. He said "my Lord", Elizabeth and his Dad.

[Connie_Corleone]

2. I actually liked Biden's last answer. He was being realistic.

I want realistic talk. Obama was a little shaky at first, but got much better, and I disagree with most people who watched the debate. I thought Obama's back and forth answers with Kucinich and Gravel were realistic also.

Edwards was third for me too.

[sandnsea]

3. Edwards-Richardson-Obama

I liked Richardson, I can't figure out what people are complaining about with him. Edwards did okay, Obama has got to get more comfortable with security and foreign policy - that stuff isn't coming from his gut.

[Connie_Corleone]

6. When the debate first started, Richardson had a confused look on his face

when the camera was on him. He had that look twice. I disagree with some of his answers also.

[HereSince1628]

4. As Cubs fans often say, It's still April.

IMHO and if this was baseball, there'd be lots of folks optioned to triple A, and we'd be singing Next Year's the Year.

[PresidentObama]

5. Biden surprised me. As an Edwards supporter, I expected more impactful statements out of him.

He seemed like a deer in front of headlights at times. Some times he seemed too cautious. Overall, I felt he has room to improve. But I felt he was in the top three of the candidates in this debate, along with Biden and Hillary.

[wyldwolf]

7. Clinton - Biden - Kucinich

[PresidentObama]

9. Thats my exact top three. Yes. Edwards was my fourth. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Clinton? Sounded Like A Strident PTO Mom

I suspect that even if Mrs. Clinton had communicated her answers exclusively by tap-dancing and farting*, you'd rate her #1.

(Actually, if she did that, I'd have to give her the nod too.)

*idea swiped from Kurt Vonnegut

[babylonsister]

17. ...

:rofl: :spank:

[wyldwolf]

21. then you suspect wrong

[MannyGoldstein]

23. Really? When Has She Ever Been Non-Optimal?

I'd be interested in seeing, say, the top 5 things that you believe she screwed up on.

[wyldwolf]

35. why do you think you can change the terms of the discussion, goldie?

[MannyGoldstein]

40. Whassamatta? Clinton HQ Hasn't Gotten Back To You?

Why not go with the tried and true "Mrs. Clinton's only fault is that she works too hard for our country. Sometimes her social life suffers - I remember once when she had to cut short her time at a Rupert Murdoch soiree."

[wyldwolf]

45. I responded to what you stated. Whassamatta? Reading comprehension problem?

Must really be annoying to you to hear all the people talk about how well she did.

[Tellurian]

24. Manny, your 5 min are up..back to the basement...

Hillary did herself proud. She held her own and gave detailed answers to her question.
Most of all, she was easy to understand.

[MannyGoldstein]

29. After Wolfie Tells Us Mrs. Clinton's 5 Worst Blunders

OK?

[Tellurian]

34. Go to bed..everyone is in a party mood..

tomorrow..

[ElizabethDC]

36. Why do you always call her "Mrs. Clinton"?

do you call Obama "Mr. Obama" or Edwards "Mr. Edwards," etc. I know this has been discussed ad infinitum, but she's Sen. Clinton, or even Hillary. Mrs. Clinton has a ring of sexism to it - it's not a title that she uses (I mean, she did when she was First Lady, but she's a senator now.) I'm not even gonna get started on the "strident PTO mom" thing.

[wyldwolf]

38. he thinks the little woman should stay at home.

[ElizabethDC]

39. That's the impression that I got n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

43. I'd Actually Prefer a Woman President

All things being equal. Perhaps Pelosi - but I haven't thought much about it.

[wyldwolf]

46. I don't think your mommy is gonna run, goldie

[MannyGoldstein]

49. Remember in Kubrick's 2001, When HAL Starts Singing

"Daisy, daisy..." as Dave completes his(?) disemboweling?

Ah, here it is: http://www.palantir.net/2001/tma1/wav/daisy.wav

Your post just reminded me of this.

Good night.

[wyldwolf]

60. yes... a lot your posts reference fiction

[MannyGoldstein]

42. Well, In The Old Days

Folks got castigated for using Hillary, so I started using Mrs. Clinton so there would be no question as to my respect for women.

I guess things have flipped.

[ElizabethDC]

44. Well, she uses "Hillary" for all her campaign materials

but I think the most respectful thing would be "Senator Clinton."

[churchofreality]

61. Yep

Edwards is toast. Obama needs a few more years.

[Nedsdag]

70. A few more years of what?

Oh, so he can compete against Spitzer, Patrick, and Martin O'Malley in 2012?

No, you strike while the iron is hot.

[jillan]

8. I was disappointed in Richardson tonite

He seemed really nervous. Kinda reminded me of Bsh in the first debate against Kerry.

I have to say I liked Biden the best.
BUT - Hillary picked up points with me tonite. Which I never thought I would say.

Also I think Dodd did really well.

[PresidentObama]

12. I agree about Richardson. I was expecting him to come out swinging, nice and strong. Disappointing.

Sigh.

[mtnsnake]

13. Kucinich, Gravel, Biden

[Tellurian]

20. Gravel was hilarious. the insulted potted plant!

Kucinich brought up a few good points and told everyone listening he thinks Cheney should be Impeached. He may start a movement all by himself after all, if the people get behind him. Biden was very good. He came across as a bold speaker and well versed on every topic they threw at him. Todd was surprisingly strong as well.

[mtnsnake]

37. That was too funny. Waht passion!

Yeah, Biden was very good, but I'm not surprised. I've always thought he deserved more credit than what he usually gets around here.

[Tellurian]

52. Tweety just brought up a good point about Hillary..

Williams faced her with a Guiliani question and she was smart- she didn't take the bait. She decided to discuss NY's and what she's done for them. Good fast thinking on her feet! William trapped Obama, though with his "personal" energy question.. OB tried getting away with using the planting of 3,000 trees last Sunday at the college campus as an answer, but Williams pulled him up short..and said no, something like lightbulbs... he said, yeah, we've done the lightbulbs..and let it go at that..

[churchofreality]

62. She was better than I had hoped.

Every answer she was confident and concise. Obama is shaky and seemed to stammer and search for answers. She is the veteran, he needs some seasoning.

[mtnsnake]

64. I don't see any difference. Both of them avoided the question asked of them.

Yes, Hillary's answer might have been smarter than Obama's, but I would rather she took the bait and pasted Gilulini's sorry ass instead of skirting the question and answering with a well rehearsed loaded answer that didn't apply to the orignal question. Here she had a perfectly justified opportunity to put the smack on Guillini, and she let it slip through her fingers because she was afraid to rock the Republican boat. Biden did the same thing. When asked the same question about Rudy, he avoided putting the smackdown on Rudy. Wait until next week when Guillini lets our people have it. Hillary and Biden will be sorry they took the high road.

I agree with you about Obama's answer to the "What have you done personally for energy conservation" question. His answer was fricken brutal, and didn't come close to addressing what was asked of him.

All that Hillary and Obama did all night long was give well-rehearsed answers to questions that weren't even asked of them. Edwards did it too, to some extent. There was very little ad libbing from them. They'd get asked a question...then they'd sit there and think to themselves for a few seconds..."hmmm, which answer should I give to them, my memorized response #4 or my memorized response #7?"

[mrreowwr_kittty]

16. The format sucked and so did the questions

WTF with the question about personal steps on improving the environment. That was a gotcha poison pill directed at Gore.

[w4rma]

18. Edwards: "Be patriotic about something other than war" (nt)

[mnhtnbb]

19. Kucinich. Gotta' love him for pulling out the Constitution.

Edwards--even though he seemed to lack energy--I liked the fact that
he took his time to answer that 'moral leader' question. Where did that come from, anyway?

Biden. I was surprised to find myself agreeing with him.


Hillary left me cold--although I thought she was the best prepared.
Obama did nothing for me.

[Labors of Hercules]

22. BINGO!

:toast:

[ChiciB1]

25. Edwards & Biden... I'm Leaving Now... I've Posted Enough Regarding

my reasons. I've always liked Biden and he was impressive... it's too bad he won't get CREDIT.

Tomorrow, the polls will be the same as they were yesterday I think! Just a guess from me.

I'm sticking with Edwards... the DEBATE SUCKED!!

[lyonn]

51. This is interesting to find anyone mentioning Biden.

Usually he is described as a scene stealer, hair plugs, mis-spoken words and yet, when I hear him speak or read some of his work I am impressed. He seems to understand the importance of foreign relations. His ideas on Iraq are as good or better than most. He is wise in the social issues. hey, I like the guy.

Edwards impressed me and Kucinich always gets my attention even tho he probably won't go far. Heck, I was proud of all of them.

Until further notice, my pick is Biden.

[ElizabethDC]

27. Biden-Clinton-Gravel

1. Biden was simply excellent.
2. Clinton gave a strong, solid performance.
3. Gravel for comic relief and shaking things up a bit.

As for the others -

Edwards - seemed a little cocky
Obama - seemed disorganized - got better as the night went on, but an overall mediocre performance
Dodd - good but dull
Richardson - seemed disorganized and spoke disjointedly
Kucinich - interesting. He wasn't as "out there" as I expected because Gravel was the real rule-breaker here.

[Tellurian]

28. Unbelievable! Tucker giving Hillary high marks for her performance

compared to the abstraction of Obama..at the opening of the event..Hillary was gracious and thanked everyone for their hospitality. Said, she loved the people here and their ROTC program. The NCarolinians returned her compliments with a great show of applause!

WELL DONE, HRC!!!

[Colobo]

31. Tucker, a Republican...

[Tellurian]

32. Yep, what a surprise!

[wyldwolf]

47. wow! Joe Scarborough giving Kucinich and Obama high marks!

[Colobo]

48. Surprising as well!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

58. It isn't surprising a Republican would be promoting our weakest major candidate

Buchanan couldn't dream of a better Democratic nominee than HRC...

[churchofreality]

63. Sore loser. She did awesome and your guy got a hair cut

[draft_mario_cuomo]

76. The funny part about the HRC machine milking Edwards $400 haircut...

...Clinton II pays four times as much for her haircuts...

[mtnsnake]

65. Hillary is not our weakest major candidate, genius. Clean off you goggles

[fuzzyball]

68. Wake up and smell the coffee...HRC has been polling the highest

in every poll so far. It is in your own little warped mind
Hillary is the weakest candidate. Majority of democrats do
not live in a distorted world.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

75. Have you read any actual polls?

She consistently does worse than Edwards and Obama in general election polls. 45-52% of people, depending on the poll, automatically rule out voting for her. She is a mere five points ahead of even little-known Sam Brownback (46-41%) nationally right now.

[Colobo]

33. From the top 4 candidates

Obama and Edwards did very well.

[benny05]

41. Edwards

But overall, decent, considering the debate should have been 4 hours. But the netroots is Edwards and he does respect us tremendously.

[SaveElmer]

50. Hillary, Obama, and Biden...

With Dodd a close 4th...

[Tellurian]

54. That was a tough format..

and lightening paced at that..

MSNBC Bob Shrum and Pat Buchannan declaring Hillary the WINNER!

Ha..might be a consensus now. Hillary is the clear WINNER..

Obama lost points tonight, according to the consensus. The word abstract is going to be his label.
Hillary's will be "gravitas" because that is what she brings to the table!

[Cameron27]

53. Biden, Obama, Clinton.

[fuzzyball]

69. Biden, Clinton, Edwards!!

[Adelante]

71. Biden, Clinton, Obama

[illinoisprogressive]

55. I switch the Biden and Obama positions. Edwards was disappointing

[Catchawave]

77. You wonder why Edwards supporters "are mean" to you?

:silly:

[Bucky]

57. Biden is one smart cookie & the debate format played to his strengths.

I also think he's long gotten a bum rap around DU for being too establishment and too ego driven. He's a smart guy who has never feared to stick his neck out on foreign policy questions.

That said, Biden isn't going to last very long inthis process---smartness alone won't get him the attention and votes he needs. Biden convinces people one-on-one; Obama convinces large crowds.

[aaronbees]

59. Obama, Edwards, Kucinich ... in that order

But I was frankly impressed with everyone (even Gravel, who definitely annoyed me at times, was inspiring in a shoot-from-the-hip manner at other times - he's a welcome addition, I think). This is a great group of candidates with diverse and distinct strengths, and I look forward to them sharpening the debate.

[trudyco]

66. So is there a replay of this somewhere? I missed it -nt

[fuzzyball]

67. I always knew BIDEN knows more about foreign policy than

the rest of them COMBINED. Every time I have seen him
on sunday TV news shows, he displayed in depth understanding
of the issues on a realistic level.

[jillan]

73. He'll be on Meet the Press this Sunday.

Perfect timing after a great performance.

[ryanmuegge]

72. I thought Obama was hugely disappointing.

He didn't seem to really take a position on anything. Everything he said seemed like feel-good rhetoric rather than anything substantive, but that's what he always seems like to me. Obama doesn't seem like the new blood that's desperately needed in Washington, as everyone makes him out to be.

Here's how every Obama question and answer seems to go:

"Senator Obama, how do you feel about a single-payer health care system?"

Obama: "I think everyone should feel good, have hope and be well" and he continues to say the same thing 70 different ways for ten minutes without really saying anything about the real world.

Really, I thought all of the legitimate candidates sucked (Kucinich and Gravel aren't legitimate, as much as I generally like Kucinich).

Gravel was funny. I like his anger; I really do, but he didn't make much sense. Every candidate that claims to be left of the Republicans should be that angry; too bad he's about as articulate as Bush and doesn't seem to have any plans beyond the anger.

Hillary was a joke, like usual. I loved it when Hillary talked about Wal-Mart and didn't mention how they contribute to the trade deficit at all when she listed the negative impacts of wal-mart. Oh, yeah, that's right..because she and her husband, like Bush, are all for giving away our economy to China; they see nothing wrong at all with trade deficits. Her answer about health care was pretty good, though.

I usually like to listen to Biden, but his hawkish side came out tonight...and that's not good. I still respect him for having the balls to tell the truth about the surge plan: it's a cynical ploy to make sure that another president has to deal with getting the troops out in the midst of a civil war. Has Obama shown the balls to say that? I doubt it.

No one had a convincing answer when it came to how they would pay for universal health care (and keep the imperalist military at its current cost levels; and what about the medicare and social security shortfalls resulting from demographics? What about the current deficits we are running?).

And the one thing that Thomas Friedman's right about rang true: politicians on both sides are completely asleep at the wheel when it comes to issues of energy and climate (hey, it's only the biggest fucking issue of our time; who cares?). I really liked Kucinich's answer about oil being the root of everything we do in the Middle East. It was so refreshing to hear a politician say that, while the rest of the "Democrats" up there were still spouting deceptive bullshit about terrorists, Al-Qaeda, and so forth. It was nice not to be talked to like a child, for once. Of course everything we're doing (and have done) in the Middle East is ONLY about oil. I don't trust any politician that can't level with me and tell the truth about that.

[Larry in KC]

74. Clark and Gore