I'm not Senator Clinton's biggest fan but I think she deserves to be addressed

[karlrschneider]

with her proper title instead of just "Hillary" as most of the pundits do. It pisses me off...they don't routinely refer to
any of the other candidates by just their first names. Maybe (!) it's because her name is relatively unique but even so it seems the talking heads revel in using it when discussing her. I don't agree with her on some issues but it seems to me she deserves to be described as Senator. :eyes:

[Mojambo]

1. I think that is a very fine point. n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. I agree in theory, but her campaign bumper stickers refer to her as "Hillary."

[karlrschneider]

4. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

Good thing her campaign didn't use the 'ho' word, I guess.
;-)

[mmonk]

3. I prefer they do as well.

I think Hillary is ok for the campaign to use but sounds unprofessional by pundits.

[Skinner]

5. Normally I would agree with you.

But in this case I think there is an explanation.

First, if they say "Clinton" then there will inevitably be some confusion over whether they are referring to Bill or Hillary.

Second, Hillary Clinton is referred to as simply "Hillary" in all of her campaign lit, Website, bumper stickers, etc. The homepage of her website has the word "Hillary" 10 times, and the word "Clinton" once.

[karlrschneider]

9. Okay David, I wasn't aware of the ubiquitous mention of the first name in all her own

campaign materials. So if it's okay with her, it won't lose me any sleep. :D

I think I'd like it just a little better if they'd append her last name in casual discussions, though. :-)

[Clarkie1]

15. Senator Clinton works. nt

[mmonk]

18. Yep, that's what pundits should use IMO.

[spooky3]

17. There should not be any confusion with the name "Senator Clinton."

WJ Clinton was/is not a senator, and my guess is that the context of most pundits' comments would make it pretty clear to whom they are referring, e.g., Bill Clinton is not running for President, and most pundits discussing Sen. Clinton these days are discussing the Presidential campaign.

I think you may also be missing another point, which is that women like her are in an impossible position, and yet there is an easy solution that the OP recommended, which is to use the same title for her as with her male peers. How she refers to herself in campaign materials is irrelevant for the press or in a debate. She is probably using her first name in campaign materials to help overcome the "cold" etc. labels certain people have imposed on her. But unfortunately, it is very common for female professionals to be addressed by their first names, which conveys a lower status, less powerful, less respected position even while men in the same (or lower level) position, in the same room, at the same meeting, are addressed as "Mr. X" or "Senator Y". Sen. Clinton is struggling with the sexism that often creates a conflict between being "liked" and being "respected." We would find it objectionable if all the whites in the campaign were referred to by titles and last names, but the pundit referred to "Barack". It's the same thing for women. Some of the media also did the same thing in the 2004 campaign, as a put down (conscious or not) of our nominee. They would talk about "President Bush" and "Mr. Kerry." However, I didn't hear many refer to "President Bush" and "John."

[iamjoy]

6. Well, There Is A Difference

a part of me agrees with you, but I often find myself referring to her as "Hillary"

It may have something to do with the fact that her husband was President. If we said Clinton, it makes people think of him. It's kind of like the way many started referring to the man currently occupying the Oval Office as "Dubya" - not necessarily intending disrespect, but to differentiate him from his father.

If Senator Hillary (how's that compromise) does become President, maybe we can start referring to her husband as #42!

[question everything]

7. I agree. However, there have been discussions here before

and the conclusion is that she uses her name in her campaign so...

I was impressed with her during the debate.

[karlrschneider]

11. I think she did just fine too. And I'd proudly vote for her if she gets the nom.

And I've castigated DUers for being oversensitive on other issues and here I am bitching about minutia. :D
My bad.

[Stephanie]

8. I ask that they call her "Clinton" or "Rodham Clinton" in fairness to the other candidates.

Calling her by her first name lends her special celebrity status, which is why she's branded herself as "Hillary." It helps her, it hurts the other candidates, it's unfair and unprofessional for the press to cooperate with her campaign on this point. She should be treated like everyone else. Calling her "Hillary" spins the coverage in her favor, as she knows very well.

[FrenchieCat]

10. I don't know if she really cares......

Actually, to be able to call a world leader by their first name is a bit comforting. Does she really mind or does she figures that we'll all be addressing her as Madame President as some point, and this issue will be moot? :shrug:

[karlrschneider]

14. Maybe she doesn't care, and that's fine!

I guess I'm just a dick about this because I've always been somewhat iconoclastic about titles -in person-...I mean I call people by their first name if I have even the most tenuous relationship with them - for example when I was in the military I rarely addressed superiors by rank-name, if I knew them even peripherally I called them by their first name and never wanted to be addressed as 'sir' by anybody. It's one of my affectations, I perceive it as improperly subservient.

That being said, I think there's a difference between a private conversation between friends or even acquaintances, and public commentary by someone who has no personal connection with the person under discussion.

In any event, no way will I ever speak the phrase "Madame Hillary" :rofl:

[illinoisprogressive]

12. whe has herself called Hillary. It's her own want.

[Colobo]

13. Her campaign is "Hillary '08"

[Clarkie1]

16. O.K., well, that pretty much settles it then. Nothing wrong with calling the woman Hillary. nt

[Stephanie]

20. ONLY if you call her opponents "John" and "Barack" and "Dennis"

Otherwise, there IS something wrong with it. It's blatant favoritism. It's aiding and abetting her campaign.

[Clarkie1]

22. hmmm...don't want to be aiding and abetting. I'll have to give some thought to that.

I don't suppose I could get away here with just calling her "that woman?"

Seriously, I think my original policy of "Senator Clinton" is best...should be standard mode of address for all Senators....at least sitting ones. I think Edwards can just be referred to as Edwards.

[loudsue]

19. She did very well tonite.

I won't vote for her in the primary, but I thought she did an admirable job in the debate. I respected her performance.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Honeycombe8]

21. I think it's because "Clinton" can be confused w/her hubby's name.

And America already has such a long history with her, from her days as First Lady and all.

I would agree under normal circumstances. But in this instance, I actually think it's a plus...the familiarity everyone has with her. Since she has such a formal persona, I think the first name adds a personal touch that helps her.

I've heard Matthews and other pundits occasionally refer to her as Senator Clinton, though. Occasionally.

[FormerDittoHead]

23. Oh my GOD! Look at all the "Hillary" disrespect going on at THIS website! (link)

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/

Do they have NO respect??? For God's sake! "Team Hillary"!!??? How DARE they!

christ, before I forget:
:sarcasm:

[Stephanie]

24. So what? Did they call Mrs. Dole "Liddy" in the press? I think not.

Mrs. Clinton has bamboozled them into giving her the celebrity status of a one-named star like "Cher."

[bling bling]

25. Did they call Mrs. Reagan "Mrs. Reagan" or Nancy?

I've heard her referred as Nancy plenty of times. Was Jackie ever referred to as Jackie?

Not sure what the point is. But the Hillary bamboozles 'em into calling her "Hillary" comment was funny, in a "oh brother" funny kinda way.

Hillary manipulates the media into having them call her by her name. The gall.

[DFW]

26. Call her campaign office in DC--listen to how they answer

"Hillary for President"

They are working the name recognition. This will work for and against them,
as the right wing hate machine is all prepared if she wins the nomination.
They obviously have no problem when she's being discussed. When you meet her,
you better believe she gets addressed as Senator, and nothing less formal.

The same thing is going on in France. Everyone is talking about the race between
"Ségolène et Sarkozy." Possibly also because with a long history of a tainted
monarchy, French are reluctant to use "Royal" a lot, but that's the way it is.
In France, it's Ségo vs. Sarko.

It also makes a difference if someone has a distinctive first name (no fair for
Obama, he has a distinctive everything). If it's a Clinton-Giuliani race, you
can bet the farm it'll be Hillary vs. Rudy. But if it's a Hillary vs. McCain
race, it for sure will NOT be Hillary vs. John.