Broder on the debate...I agree with him...should I be worried...

[SaveElmer]

After all he is usually so out of touch...however he made a point I heartily agree with...should I reevaluate my opinion, or just chalk it up to the fact that the sun shines on a dogs ass once in a while..

...but the overall impression from the first formal debate from this early-starting campaign is that the Democrats have a field of contenders that, by any historical measure, matches in quality any the party has offered in decades.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/26/AR2007042602957.html?hpid=artslot

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. he probably sniffed around the comments yesterday

Re: his ridiculous article, and felt chagrined.

no wait. This is a neocon apologist. They have no shame gene, do they?

[Tellurian]

2. Hillary and Biden were the most outstanding candidates

Biden was the soul of wit while Hillary the most substantive with her answers.
I'll say again, Obama sounded impressive but very little substance could be gleaned from his words.

[churchofreality]

5. I agree

Hillary is impressive. Every time she speaks, she is concise, intelligent and never gets rattled. I like Biden, but he'll never live down the plagiarism bullshit and the Obama "articulate" thing.

Obama is too green and seems like he's straining for every answer. Hillary is smooth!!!

[Tellurian]

36. Great News posted in my e-mail..

"Dear xxxx,

Last night in the first Democratic presidential debate, all of Hillary's strengths shone through. A country ready for change saw a candidate with the experience and vision to lead America forward.

Hillary stood out as the one candidate who is ready to lead and understands exactly what it's going to take to end the war in Iraq, pass universal health care, achieve energy independence, and more.

Thousands of Hillary supporters gathered to watch the debate, but they aren't the only ones who noticed her performance -- see what others are saying about Hillary's performance in the debate last night:

* "Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton delivered a cool, confident performance..." Newsday
* "Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton was professorial and emphatic..." New York Times
* "Clinton entered the debate with high expectations and managed to meet them -- not an easy task..." Washington Post

There is more debate coverage on HillaryHub, the ultimate source of news and information about Hillary. You can find news stories, editorials, blog posts, video clips, and campaign updates -- all in one place.

http://www.hillaryhub.com/

It's a great tool for Hillary supporters who want to stay informed and help spread the word about what she's doing, what she's standing for, and why she'll make a great president. We'll be updating HillaryHub every day, so be sure to come back often.

...links to news articles are live in the enclosed link..

[OneBlueSky]

3. the only thing missing was the star of the show . . . Al Gore . . . n/t

.

[karynnj]

4. and John Kerry

Who would have dominated as he did in 2004. He would actually be in a better position because he was the leader on Iraq.

[Tellurian]

6. Except if we had to hear..

a defense of the dropped pronoun meme for the next 6mos..

But I didn't miss Kerry at all. We get so much Kerry here, it seems he's never left!

[karynnj]

13. What is worse intentionally disparaging a beloved world leader

(Ghandhi) or skipping one pronoun during a month packed with appearances across the country to help Democrats?

Kerry's says that when exhausted he is human and can skip a word. Hillary's shows a lack of respect.

Also, if it is Kerry's defense that bothered you - his anger was in control and aimed at the those who were distorting his words and he didn't have his finger in anyone's face.

[Tellurian]

14. I'm not a Judge, karynnj..neither are you..

and I'm happy to say, chances are Senator Kerry may be addressing Hillary as Madame President.
Her future is looking very bright based on her performance last night.

[karynnj]

16. everyone is a judge

Hillary may become President. She has the entire power elite behind her. Though didn't someone say something about "what does it profit to gain the world if you lose your soul"? Neither Clinton are what they started out to be.

[Tellurian]

18. I'll pray for you karynjj, if you've lost your soul..

and hopefully your redemption is heartfelt and swift.

I agree, the Clintons have lived and learned. They're perception of what Republicans represent has become crystal clear. They completely underestimated the ferocity of the VRW's plan to get control of this country's government by any means necessary, even to breaking the law if they had to to accomplish their untenable success.

[blm]

37. If that were true then why join them in attacking other Democrats?

Why spend 2003 and 4 publically sticking closer to Bush on terrorism and Iraq than with Kerry knowing full well that Kerry would not hesitate to open the books on BushInc?

You seem to want us to believe that Clinton WILL bring BushInc to justice, yet nothing in their records come close to making that a plausible scenario.

[Toots]

7. So he is dissing Gore and Kerry , what an ass.

Personally I like all our Democratic contenders but I don't find any of them to be the best in years.....We have always had very very good people that actually know how to read and write as compared to the Republican field that chose as their very best...... Bush*.....

[blm]

8. You think Hillary would dominate a debate stage with Gore and Kerry?

Ever see two Dem nominees more deliberately vilified by the party elites and more UNDEFENDED when under attack by BushInc and the corporate media?
Judge for yourself.

This talk by historian Douglas Brinkley occurred in April 2004:

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Whom does the biographer think his subject will pick as a running mate? Not Hillary Rodham Clinton.
"There's really two different Democratic parties right now: there's the Clintons and Terry McAuliffe and the DNC and then there's the Kerry upstarts. John Kerry had one of the great advantages in life by being considered to get the nomination in December. He watched every Democrat in the country flee from him, and the Clintons really stick the knife in his back a bunch of times, so he's able to really see who was loyal to him and who wasn't. That's a very useful thing in life."



http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

By M.J. Rosenberg

I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.

On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.
>>>>>>



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[Tellurian]

10. Get over the hypotheticals.. you deal in the ether with all your posts

The coulda, shoulda, woulda, world of "IF" and make believe-

[blm]

11. Have you written to Historian Douglas Brinkley or TPM with your concerns about made-up

stories?

Or do you save it all for a mere CITIZEN on an internet forum?

[Tellurian]

12. A mere citizen is not consistently tendentious..they are just that mere citizens..

[blm]

17. Mere citizens on an internet forum who are under constant attack when you should take up

YOUR CLAIMS of made up charges with those historians and investigative reporters who have aired them.

[Tellurian]

19. I'm living in the present..

and planning for mine and my children's future and the future of our country.
All that done by giving weight to the historical past and factoring it in to my decision for the future.

But that is my right and privilege as a...mere citizen.

[blm]

20. They who ignore history doom us all to the repeating of it.

.

[Tellurian]

21. The correct quote is: "Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

As anyone can see, the connotation of your words are in conflict with the meaning of the correct quote.

[blm]

22. I meant it exactly the way I said it. Those in power who don't do the job honestly fuck up

the world situation for ALL of us.

All it will take to truly heal this nation is someone in the Oval Office who will RESPECT the citizens enough to let them know the unvarnished truth so they can actually PERFORM their duties as citizens with a baseline of honest information.

[Tellurian]

23. When you show respect for the Truth..

instead of your usual conspiracy theorys, you might earn that right.

[blm]

24. Brinkley, Parry, Webb, TPM, Greider are all conspiracy theorists, eh?

Clinton even said himself in his book that he COULD have pursued outstanding matters but chose not to so Poppy Bush could have a peaceful retirement.

Yet, any time we point that out with the added details of the calamity of that decision, YOUR gang calls it conspiracy theory.

You continue to blame unsatisfied citizens for not accepting that 'peaceful retirement' for Poppy Bush as the best decision that Bill Clinton made for this nation. Guess what? It doesn't change the fact that he DID make that decision and continued to do so every time another Poppy scandal resurfaced during his terms.

[Tellurian]

25. No, just you!

[blm]

26. heh.... if they posted here you'd treat their articles the same way.

Heheh...I'll be happy to be your target in their stead, as they are truthtellers who give a voice to the historic record.

Your taunts are water off a duck.

[Tellurian]

27. Please spare me the martyr role..

and I could walk very well in their company.

The people you mentioned have some comprehension of the workings of the legal system..

[blm]

28. Yes. And they have a really great idea about how to stop the illegalities committed in

government - open the books and allow access to needed documents.

You want to play this game where the legal system somehow stopped Clinton from doing the right thing. Funny - that's not what Clinton said. He said HE chose to not pursue the matters. And Parry said Clinton chose to not pursue the matters but with greater detail.

I agree with them - I'm a conspiracy theorist.

[Tellurian]

29. Can you even walk a straight line..

It's no game lady..It's just that you don't understand the workings of the legal system.

[blm]

31. Heheheh....yeah...I remember that was exactly the reason Clinton gave in his book

And it was exactly what Parry has said - that legal reasons stopped Clinton from doing the right thing.

And it was legal reasons that Brinkley cited as why Kerry was undermined.

And legal reasons why Carville told Matalin about the 250000 provisional ballot challenge.

And legal reasons why McAuliffe's Office of Voter Integrity failed to counter the 4yrs of tactics the RNC would employ to steal another election.

Sorry - but claiming there were legal reasons why Poppy Bush couldn't be held accountable, really doesn't cut it.

[Tellurian]

32. Perverse thinking won't win you any brownie points

not with those who have their basic comprehension skills intact.
as I'm sure you've heard before-

[blm]

34. that's rich....

you don't KNOW me...

at all....

And, essentially, you are not just saying I am not comprehensive. You are also saying that Brinkley, Parry, Greider, TPM are not comprehensive. Because, even if I merely posted their articles with absolutely not one word of commentary, you would still blame the CONTENT of those articles on ......... who?

[Tellurian]

35. No, it's sad..

[karynnj]

30. Well BLM, I guess Tellurian is calling Bill Clinton a liar

or maybe saying he didn't write that page in his book.

Is calling Clinton a liar on something that looks true fair to him?

[blm]

33. I actually believe Clinton was NOT LYING when he said that.

I think he was pretty naive at that point and let himself be convinced by the Alan Greenspans of DC to move past all of it. Unfortunately, that act of initial naivete cause him for the rest of his terms and cost this nation dearly in ways that we will be paying for generations to come.

[karynnj]

15. You don't challange what she says

Does it concern you that there have been Clinton people who casually speak of this campaign having been planned since 2003?

Does it bother you that in an election that came down to 59,000 votes, they weren't 100% behind the candidate? Does it bother you that Bill Clinton choose to put out his autobiography weeks before the convention, eating up time that traditionally is used to speak of the candidates and the up coming convention? Instead, we had every pundit in the country speaking of Bill Clinton and looking up the letter "L" in the index.

You now point to things like the Supreme Court as to why we will have to be behind Hillary if she is the candidate. You ignore that the 2004 winner has nominated two of them - maybe he should have been given more support. As important as that, Iraq and the environment would have handled very differently - and Kerry is better on both than the Clintons, though both are far better than Bush.

All I know is that one person, who will be sending emails and doing what he can to get people like BLM and me to vote for her if she is the candidate, is Senator Kerry. From past emails supporting people from him, he will make an impeccable case and if anyone can make te case that it is important to forgive the past and vote for her it will be Senator Kerry.

So, maybe you should want him to stay.

[Sparkly]

9. I'm not feeling it.

I'm not seeing a Dean, Kerry, or Clark. Definitely not seeing a Gore.

God I hope Clark or Gore goes for it.

(Having said that, I hope you and Broder are right and that I'm just jaded or something!)