Do you support Hillary just because she is a woman.

[illinoisprogressive]

the charge is always: you are scared of a strong woman. blah blah.
I am a woman and I find this patently a dumb argument. Why? Because there are alot of women who do not support Hillary for various reasons.
I have many reasons I dont' support her. She is negative and divisive. She is like listening to nails on a blackboard. I dont' agree with her. I am suspicious of all the corporate and republicans she is surrounded with, she is totally DLC, she is a hawk, she reminds me of Bush and I don't want to live in a dynasty of the two most dysfunctional families ruling us forever. Look where it's got us so far.
In other words, she would be a terrible president filled with more of the partisan gotchas and the constant soap opera that is the Clintons.
Her thinking and retoric is so 90s. We need to move on.
This country is desparate for new thinking and new ideas.
I am so tired of the two families I could scream. I'd like to pack them off to another part of the world and have peace from bush and clinton
As a woman she would be a bad president and I'd rather wait. I won't vote for someone just because of her gender. I want a good woman candidate. A real democrat. Like Pelosi. I cannot understand someone voting for Hillary just because she is a woman and thrust this country, already reeling, with a bad president simply because she's a woman.

[liberal renegade]

1. How many times does this question need to be asked?

NO!

[MADem]

15. Yeah,it's a broken record. Where are the "Would you vote for Dodd because he has snowy white hair?"

posts? Where are the "Would you vote for Edwards because his wife has cancer?" posts?

It's the same question, same candidate, over and over. Curious, that.

[hippiechick]

2. I completely agree with your post.

:applause:

[liberal renegade]

3. I've said it before and I'll say it again

President Hillary Clinton.......

[ElizabethDC]

4. No, I don't support her just because she's a woman

and I've never told anybody that they're scared of strong women just because they don't like Hillary. I have told people they're being misogynistic if they make misogynistic.

Also, I really like that one of your lead reasons for not liking her is because "she is like listening to nails on a blackboard." Sure, her voice is unpleasant, but what does that have to do with anything? Personally, I won't be voting for or against anyone because of a) what his/her voice sounds like or b) what his/her last name is.

[emilyg]

19. no

i support her because i admire her and respect her.

[yourout]

5. Amen.....Amen....Amen.....Amen

[Alexander]

6. Should we vote for Condi Rice, just because she's a black woman?

That is equally as racist and stupid as voting against someone because of their gender or skin color.

It implies that qualifications, issues and personal attributes don't matter, just demographics.

[AtomicKitten]

consider it a bonus point

She is negative and divisive.

So is your OP. :shrug:

If she gets the nod, IMO working for the election of the first female president will be historic and I definitely could get behind that.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. "you are scared of a strong woman" is "patently a dumb argument"? Not really.

Sexism is very real. There are plenty of people who would simply never vote for a female candidate. Or a Jewish candidate. Or a Black candidate. Or a Mormon, or a homosexual, or an evangelical, or an atheist, or an Hispanic, or a senior citizen...
The -isms of hate and intolerance are very real.

[primative1]

10. So how do you seperate the isms from genuine distrust?

We got us a real choice this time as far as isms.
One way or the other I am afraid we must get ready to hear that such and such didnt win because they are xxx .
It will happen. So what then?

[Captain_Nemo]

8. I am voting for her becasue of her experience and I think we need a democratic female feminist in WH

I think this article says a lot:
WOMAN CANDIDATES FACE HIGH STANDARDS :A woman McCain's age or with Obama's experience would have a hard time

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18412439/

We need a person who is an insider to Washington (and outsider will get squashed)
We need someone with a firm grasp on military strategy (to get us out of this mess)

We need a feminist to put women and children on a top tier of priorities. (We'vebeen on the bottom tier for a long time)

When Pelosi becasme Speaker a professor was interveiwed in the LA Times. She talked about how big this was for women in our country. She went on to talk about how th e"power of the mirror is huge."

I agree. Women in our country are facing poverty (issues like medicare and social security are womens issues) we have had to face virulent anti woman legislation in regards to reproductive control. Issues such as public schools are owmen's issues too.

I would never vote for soemone just because they were female but in this case I am glad that my candidate is a woman. We have to break the deadlock of male only presidents.

[juajen]

22. I so agree with you

Besides which, I really love Hillary. I believe she has a lot to offer this country at a time when we are sorely in need of a great leader. How wonderful that we have a female that is going head to head with the male candidates, and winning. GO Hillary.

[Captain_Nemo]

24. Thanks for the good words! It is sometimes rare to hear it on DU. She will be a great leader!

[Alamom]

28. "A woman McCain's age or with Obama's experience would have

a hard time", is the understatement of all time.



A woman in either situation would have a snowball's chance in hell.

[Captain_Nemo]

29. Yes, I am glad this article is getting a good read. Hillary '08!

[rinsd]

9. No and the question is as ridiculous as "Do you support Obama because he is a black man"

People have their reasons for supporting the various candidates whther its personal appeals, their positions, etc.

[illinoisprogressive]

11. I think this is true by the defensive remarks. I'd rather wait for a good woman candidate

one who can make a democrat proud. A be a real democrat. Who cares about the people and country first

seeing that I am white I don't think I'm supporting Obama because he is black

[ElizabethDC]

13. You think it's true by the defensive remarks?!

people were just answering your question!

As a Democrat, Hillary makes me proud. And who are you to determine who a "real Democrat" is?

[MADem]

23. Defensive remark = Anyone who disagrees.

You can already judge the level of discourse you're gonna get from that assertion, unfortunately.

[Captain_Nemo]

18. She is a feminist. And as a woman and an American she makes me proud.

[MADem]

20. Hmmm, never heard of the "white guilt" concept, I see!!!

I do not necessarily endorse this book, which was written by a Black conservative. I have not read it, I know nothing about the author except that he is a conservative, I am simply pointing out that there are some factions in America that are pushing the thesis, is all: http://www.amazon.com/White-Guilt-Together-Destroyed-Promise/dp/0060578629

You can even read a bit of it here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13618339/

[MADem]

12. That's a goofy question...it's like asking if someone supports Obama because he is Black,

or Biden because he is Catholic, or Kucinich because he's short, or he's fighting with Gravel to be the furthest to the left? Or do you support Gravel because he's the oldest? Or Dodd because his eyebrows don't match his hair and he has a young wife and kids? Or Edwards because his wife has cancer, or he's considered the "cute" one? Or Richardson because he's "the" Hispanic?

Anyone answering your question in the affirmative would expose themself as a singular issue voter, just as someone answering the same way for the questions I posed, above, would be put in the same camp--a knee-jerk nonthinker.

Some people are one-issue voters, some aren't. Some people actually research and vote on the issues, and the candidate's ability to both discuss them intelligently and have a vision to fix the problems facing us, and some people vote on stupid, dare I say moronic, things that do not matter, like gender, race, ethnicity, who the candidate is related to, hairstyle or tone of voice.

I'm not very surprised you don't like Clinton. Your avatar sort of gave you away.

I'm still undecided, but that post of yours didn't sway me to vote for or against your candidate, Obama, or sway me for or against voting for Clinton.

It's just a big "Eh..." At best. Your reasoning seemed pretty lame to me, too. You honestly didn't help YOUR candidate with that post, and you actually kind of tarnished him a bit (as an example of his supporters, I mean) by being so negative about one of his opponents, and with a laundry list of faults that include things she cannot change, like her voice and her relatives....that kind of trashing is NOT what Obama's about. It never has been.

I don't think he'd want to be associated with that kind of "advocacy" frankly.

I do think people should spend more time touting the virtues of their choice, and less time tearing the rest of the field down. That's just my opinion, mind you, but it would probably elevate the discourse a bit.

Funny, it seems like I've seen variations on this theme before, too. It's unfortunate, really.

[SaveElmer]

14. Being a woman adds to her appeal as a candidate...

I do get excited when I think we might FINALLY elect a woman President. I have the same feeling about Obama and get excited at the prospect of possible electing an African American as President...

But that is not the reason I am supporting her. I support her because she best represents my political ideology, because she has turned out to be a very effective and competent Senator, because I think she has probably the strongest internal fortitude politically of any of the candidates, and because I think out of all the really good choices we have, she would be the best President...and I think she has a chance to be a great President given the right circumstances...

[ElizabethDC]

17. Good answer, SaveElmer, I agree wholeheartedly

I see the fact that she's a woman as a plus, but it's ridiculous that that would be the sole reason to vote for her. She has many other good qualities that make her an excellent candidate.

[Captain_Nemo]

16. P.S. When I hear that "her voice is like listening to nails on a chalkboard" I think if she looked

If Hillary Looked like Kuchinich she'd be made fun of all the time.
If she had as little experience as Obama they'd be saying she's egotistical or self-serving or "she should stay in congress and get experience."
If she built a house like Edwards they'd be saying she's greedy or materialistic.
If she said something like Biden she'd be raked over the coals.

My point is it will be an uphill battle to fight off the criticism because she is going to get more than anyone else on the Dem side trying to run.

[Blue_In_AK]

21. That would be a big

HELL NO.

[Alamom]

25. No, I'm supporting Senator Clinton because she has the most

years in the field and more extensive "On the Job" experience than any of the other candidates.


For many reasons, at this point in time, she is the best woMAN for the job.






edgr

[polichick]

26. At this point, I'm supporting all the Dems...

...and, though Hillary's hawkishness doesn't jive with my own views, I'm thrilled to see a woman brave enough to play the ultimate male game. It's been a long road for us and, though I was also disappointed in Nancy Pelosi for taking impeachment off the table, I celebrated her historic victory wholeheartedly ~ simply because she's a woman! I think we girls need to cheer each other on a little more, whether we vote for someone else or not. The boys still have something on us when it comes to encouragement and support, which anyone who's ever been to high school knows.

As for Hillary, I say YOU GO GIRL!!!

[Bravo Zulu]

27. It doesn’t make any difference to me

I haven’t decided on whom I’m going to support yet and keep changing my mind, if I thought right now she had a good chance to win, I’ll back her, I actually think she will be a pretty good President and surely a breath of fresh air after the disaster bu$h has been, give the ladies a chance, they will probably do a better job than what we men have done, mainly, by shooting first and asking questions later!

[jcrew2001]

30. I'll vote for Oprah

because she can win.

[tammywammy]

31. I don't support Hillary

and I could care less that she's a woman.

That's like assuming all African Americans are going to vote for Obama.

[LWolf]

32. I'm a woman, I don't support her. Gender is not the issue. n/t

[1776Forever]

33. I don't know if I can trust her to do the right thing for the middle-class

after reading about her ties to India's millionaires and IBM saying they are moving more tech jobs to India - perhaps 100,000 more lay offs to come - refer to this link -

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Business/Intl_Business/US_workers_angry_as_IBM_jobs_move_to_India/articleshow/2020258.cms

And going back to 2005 at this link from India -

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html

Hillary has been at the forefront in defending free trade and outsourcing. During the height of the anti-outsourcing backlash in the US last year, she faced considerable flak for defending Indian software giant Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) for opening a center in Buffalo, New York. "We are not against all outsourcing; we are not in favor of putting up fences," Hillary said firmly, despite inevitably invoking the ire of the anti-free trade brigade

Read this:

http://www.h1bvisasucks.com/H1BDiscussions_issue_clinton.htm

Con Greenwood (?) fully supports the exportation of American Jobs to an Overseas Power (India). Con. Greenwood went on a Junket to India along with Bill Clinton and Pennsylvania Lt. Gov Schweiker. Schweiker opened an Indian High Technology Center in Harrisburg. Recent studies have shown the Gen X students coming out of Pennsylvania Colleges can not find local jobs. Here we are seeing a loss of our economic future in this process. Yet for some strange reason Harrisburg and Congress see fit to import foreign labor rather then invest in our own people. Both Greenwood and the Corporations that follow these practices need to be held accountable. If you go to Harrisburg you will see the extent of the problem. Do you really believe that we are not seeing Cronyism at its worst here! (Ref Articles in Doylestown Intelligencer and Phila. Daily News). Greenwood went to India with Clinton over the Enron Deal to setup their power plant that cost US Taxpayers Billions! Then heads up the Enron Investigation!! Wonder why Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling are off the hook?

Note: Rajat Gupta's McKinsey was involved with Clinton's Junkets along with Enron and the SEC to Advise Harvey Pitt How to Reorganize the SEC to Address White Collar Crime...This is the fox in the hen house...They may just a well hire Jeff Skilling Pres of Enron!!...He was a Senior Partner at Rajat Gupta's McKinsey prior to becoming Pres of Enron!!

AND this goes along with NAFTA:

As referenced in the article below http://dbacon.igc.org/Unions/24ClintonLabor.htm from a David Bacon website:



At the heart of his criticism of the Clinton administration are the president's economic policies, which Wages says are modeled on the old adage from the 1950s, that what's good for General Motors is good for the country. Pointing to the recent budget negotiations with the Republicans, Wages accuses Clinton of often proposing a less extreme version of conservative ideas, including increasing Medicaid costs on the elderly, eliminating legal immigrants from Social Security, and supporting a capital gains tax cut.

"I don't hear him talking about cutting corporate welfare. I don't hear him talking about issues that would resonate with working people," he says. He calls the president's position in the long-running tug-of-war over the budget and the government shutdowns "more posturing than substance."

The big crime in Wages' book is the continued support by a Democratic administration of the free trade proposals that were the hallmark of the Reagan-Bush years. The Clinton agenda on trade was largely a product of the Democratic Leadership Council, and centered on support for NAFTA and GATT. The party's program itself was written by "new Democrats," including Fritz Hollings, Roy Roehmer and Richard Selby.

**********

Please prove me wrong if you do get elected, but I am not happy at all with the NAFTA decision that Bill made! If only he would have listened!I hope she will stand with the middle-class if she does get elected or we are really in deep do do and we all ready need a BIG shovel now!:hurts:

[Mark Twain Girl]

34. Hm, I'm tempted to support Hillary because of your post

Just for pure mischief. She is negative? How? What did she say that makes you arrive at that conclusion? She is like listening to nails on a blackboard? Ah, a sound basis for evaluation. She reminds you of Bush? How? Her thinking is "so 90s"? What does that statement mean, exactly?

Sure, it's exciting to think of a woman holding the office of president, but I imagine her supporters feel that she is a competent, accomplished Senator with a great deal of fortitude to withstand the ugliness she has faced for so many years. Besides, many of these things are subjective. I don't get the sturm and drang over Hillary myself -- I don't get the vitriol that seems more based on personal factors, not policy. What bothers me most, really, is that Hillary Clinton has been annointed by the corporate media -- along with Obama -- as the Two Frontrunners We Shall Talk About. If we have to go through this early campaign kick-off (where many of the stories have been money money money), then I want to talk about all the candidates. I actually appreciated Bill Richardson's tongue-in-cheek approach to this situation in his new campaign ads. I also appreciated the presence of Kucinich and Gravel at the debate, and they laid some very important issues on the table.

Qualities like "nails on a blackboard" are just personal opinion. I understand that you find your candidate fresh and inspiring, I do get that -- but, for example, I don't happen to share that opinion. Most of all, I don't want the corporate media shills choosing who we can talk about and who gets the news blackout.

Oh, and what constitutes a "real democrat", anyway?

In any case, I think several people brought up sound reasons why they support Hillary Clinton. It's condescending and unfair to suggest those who support her only do so because she's a woman.

[AtomicKitten]

35. welcome to DU

You pose some interesting questions, grasshopper.

:thumbsup:

[calteacherguy]

36. I think it best I recuse myself from commenting. nt

[Captain_Nemo]

37. Wonderfully said.

[ShortnFiery]

38. I concur 100%. However, I don't support her mostly because she's PRO- Military Industrial Complex.

Do not be fooled by HRC's posturing about "big oil" because it's all a meaningless waltz to impress us stupid "little people" peasant class. HRC, Biden and many other political elites are Pro-war machine and big business "all the way."

Second, I don't believe in supporting Political Dynasties, regardless of party affiliation. We need new blood and REAL PEOPLE in office vice the ARROGANT Political Elites.

I hope and pray that HRC not only loses the nomination but that she also loses her state nomination to the next democratic Senate challenger.

IMO, HRC is drunk with power and a feeling of entitlement ... it's disgusting how "her machine" is paying off democratic politicians and organizations to proved unprecedented EARLY support for HRC. :thumbsdown:

The primaries have NOT arrived yet and I have faith that HRC will be smartly defeated. If not, be prepared to say "President Rudy" OR "President Mitt." :(

[AtomicKitten]

39. wow

IMO, HRC is drunk with power and a feeling of entitlement ...

Love ya, S&F, I really do, but I'm always taken aback by your bitterness that appears for the most part to be based on subjective rather than objective reasons. I just just don't understand it.

And it is particularly disturbing because HRC is running so strong, but more of a case for Al Gore to run because he appears to heal the division, and you know I'm fully behind that idea.

[ShortnFiery]

40. You say opinion, but I say it's reflected by her behavior.

Yes, we are seemingly being preached at this *very early point* to not even bother because HRC has been anointed by the Political Elite.

Well yes, I have an attitude that is pro- middle class vice these "out of touch" political elites. It's bad enough that these beltway insiders seemingly run the show, but I'll be damned if I'll support more destructive dynasties. No, I want new blood in the WH. ;)

[AtomicKitten]

41. I changed "opinion" to subjective vs objective reasons.

But it pretty much means the same.

I feel that it is more important to put a Democrat in the White House than which particular Democrat, so I suppose in that sense I am easier to please. However, I want to make damn sure the next president is a Democrat to appoint the next Supreme Court justices; it hangs in the balance as it is.

[ShortnFiery]

42. I understand and respect your point.

I guess that, truth be told, I have a very hard edge and see HRC being elected as opening the door to a gentler sort of fascism. Sure, women will have the "right to choose" BUT corporations and the Military Industrial Complex specifically will run every damn thing and it will have very similar devastating results, i.e., increasing numbers of working poor and those living in abject poverty within our good ole' USA. :(

It's the Anarchist part of my character, part of me regrets that I'll have to quit DU and write in Dennis Kucinich in the General Election. My rationale: Reveal ALL THE EVIL within the republican's agenda sooner rather than later. If it is vicious enough, *the people* will oust their party rule (both Executive and Legislative Branches) for over a decade.

Unfortunately, "these Nazis' bastard offspring" :P tend to come out of the woodwork every thirty years. :wow: IMO, it may be more productive to let the people learn the hard way that JOHN WAYNE and SAINT REAGAN are just myths perpetuated by sociopathic right wing republicans.

Best to you AK. You have a way of communicating well with almost everyone. You're a diplomat. ;)

[AtomicKitten]

44. hey - I'm short & fiery too

5 ft 2, eyes of blue

:toast:

[ShortnFiery]

45. Back at ya buddy!

:hi: :-)

[jcrew2001]

43. ABC - Anyone but Clinton

I think that is where the Obama fans are coming from. Last time it was ABB - now its ABC.

[liberal renegade]

46. Her thinking and rhetoric are so 90's

If I remember correctly the 90's were some pretty good years, thanks be to Hillarys husband.


:thumbsup:

[ElizabethDC]

47. That was my impression, too. n/t

[Trajan]

48. I will support whatever Democrat emerges as the Nominee .....

I have many feelings and ideas about who is running, and on what strengths and weaknesses they possess individually, but in the end, I WILL vote for that Democrat, whoever it is ....

Male, Female, Black, White, ... even Purple Hermaphrodite ....

I will let you DUers fight it out, and I'll support the consensus from the left in the General Election come November 2008 ...