Hugely disappointed in Senator Jim Webb

[PBass]

Webb voted against the Feingold-Reid bill yesterday. No idea how he's voting today, yet.

What happened to Webb's attitude about Congress "showing the president the way" out of Iraq (his rebuttal to Bush's SOTU)???

Webb is not my Senator but I did donate a bunch of money to his campaign.

WTF???

[hijinx87]

1. webb is a blue dog

other than not being whathisname, I never understood people's
love affair with the guy. and other than the war, he is wrong on
most everything else.

now, having said all that, he did kick whathisname's (I really
have forgotten his name) ass. that alone is worth a great deal.

[LisaM]

2. George Allen. Webb isn't too much to my tastes either but he's hugely better

than George Allen, who is a racist, and mean to boot. Not to mention being a fundamentalist.

I think everyone needs to step back and understand that we are better off now than a year ago, even though there have been bumps in the road.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. Blue dog from a red state who barely won against a complete racist.

What do you expect?

[SaveElmer]

4. Jim Webb

Here is a link to a post that has his reasoning...

He is my Senator...

I know the following...

1. Jim Webb is an expert in military and foreign policy...almost without parallel

2. Jim Webb is a straight talker...

3. Jim Webb doesn't play politics, and certainly would not do so with the lives of American soldiers..

Therefore I conclude that what he says is worth listening to and considering, and he very well may be correct in this situation...

[spooky3]

5. link?

[SaveElmer]

12. Oh sorry...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3279146&mesg_id=3279146

[spooky3]

22. thanks!

[Totally Committed]

6. He is also a PNAC signatory.

If he signed that document, who knows what he's really thinking or planning. Since I found that out I am having a problem trusting him, frankly.

http://www.king-george.biz/wst_page5.html

TC

P.S. Completely as an aside, as you can see, Sen. Schumer is a signatory as well.

[LBJDemocrat]

10. Fallacious

Webb signed only PNAC's Statement on the Defense of Taiwan. And I doubt that there's anything awful in it. Better a Taiwan supporter than a friend of the PRC tyrants eating up America's manufacturing base.

[TwilightGardener]

9. I agree with what you've said, but I disagree that those that vote no on this

are playing politics with soldiers' lives. It's not wrong to refuse to support this bill.

[SaveElmer]

11. I didn't say that...nor do I think it

But to say that anyone that votes for it is therefore a "warmonger" or whatever term they choose to apply is not necessarily true either....applying that label to Jim Webb for example would be ludicrous

[TwilightGardener]

14. Yes, I am with you on that. Many Dems of good conscience will end up voting for it.

[onenote]

15. Like most Democrats in Congress, Webb never advocated immediate withdrawal

What many DUers seem to forget is that during last fall's campaign, most Democrats running for Congress challenged the conduct of the war and whether we should've ever gotten into it in the first place. But many, probably most, stayed clear of advocating immediate withdrawal. The fact that they're reluctant to go that route six months later is only a shock to those who weren't paying any attention or who want to believe what they want to believe.

[MasonJar]

7. I personally trust Senator Webb to do his best for what is right for the

troops, since his own son is one of them. Perhaps his vote is the right one. Only time will tell.

[SaveElmer]

13. Exactly t he point I have been trying to make...

Thanks!

[MODemocrat]

8. Maybe he's still a republican

Bush is possibly the reason he came over to the Democratic side in the first place.:shrug:

[SaveElmer]

16. He said that he was a Republican...

Based on national security issues, but was always uncomfortable with Republican social and economic policy...

[onenote]

17. Maybe you need to get some fresh air

:shrug:

[ncteechur]

18. He also has a son over there and I'm sure he doesn't want him to go without

supplies. If I had a son over there, I would vote for the supplemental to give the necessary supplies even if it was a bitter pill to swallow. Cut the guy some slack.

[hellbound-liberal]

19. He's my Senator too. I too agree that he votes in the best interests of the troops

However his son is not over there right now. He may be going back, but he's not there now.

[beachmom]

21. His son came home (not sure if he has to go back). I saw a picture

of him with Webb on Raising Kaine.

Anyone know how he voted tonight?

[hijinx87]

34. I believe he voted "yea"

(a perhaps unnecessarily bitter comment follows)

not so opposed to it now that his son isn't over there
anymore . . . .

[Zynx]

20. This may come as a surprise, but most Dems never supported immediate pullout

First, it's not realistic. We decide to leave tomorrow, it will probably still take a year to ship all the junk home. The sheer numbers are quite a problem.

Second, defunding the war isn't really all that popular. That's just a raw political reality. All conservative and competitive district Dems have to consider this.

[hijinx87]

23. I seem to recall . . . .

that they got there in just a few months. why would pulling them
out take so much longer?

and control of both houses turned on the issue of the war; we won
because we oppose it. isn't that the real political reality?

[Adelante]

25. The public opposes the war, yes

We won because the American people want the troops to come home and because of Bush's horrendous failures in conducting the war. I'm not sure the public wants defunding, though. At least it hasn't looked that way, so far, from what I've seen.

[hijinx87]

26. after much consideration . . .

I don't think there is an option to defunding.

we were elected to accomplish a very specific thing. I doubt the
american people would take exception with the means we chose to
employ in meeting our mandate.

[Adelante]

35. And you may be right, hijinx

What do you think of the idea of revoking the IWR?

[hijinx87]

38. I actually looked up the IWR in search of a loophole

it contains language at the end that requires bi-monthly reports to congress:

SEC. 4. REPORTS TO CONGRESS

(a) The President shall, at least once every 60 days, submit to the Congress a report on matters relevant to this joint resolution, including actions taken pursuant to the exercise of authority granted in section 2 and the status of planning for efforts that are expected to be required after such actions are completed, including those actions described in section 7 of Public Law 105-338 (the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998).

I am wondering if the regime can be declared in material breach of
the IWR, and then it simply be voided. it is probably not completely
legal, but it would provide acceptable political cover to our cowering
leadership to do what has to be done, since obviously the election wasn't
enough for them.

[Adelante]

40. Richardson, Clinton and Byrd

are trying to bring about something like this. It could be much simpler than defunding, it seems to me.

[muffin1]

24. He's my Senator

Anyone who knows anything about George Allen should be THRILLED that he lost to Jim Webb.
Allen is a total racist - confederate flag in his office, and on his belt buckle. A NOOSE hung in his office as a symbol of JUSTICE! Not to mention the "Maccaca" incident.
He has no use for Geneva Convention rules, nor habeas corpus. On top of all that, he is one of those fundamental "Christians".
I believe that Jim Webb is generally a good man. He served his country very heroically in Vietnam. He served as Secretary of the Navy. He has vast military and diplomacy experience. He was against this stupid ass war FROM THE BEGINNING. AND he has told off Chimpy on a number of occasions.
Think I'll stand by Jim a little longer!
:-)

[hijinx87]

27. Webb's voting record

a little blurb from congressional quarterly.

So far, the voting records of three Democrats who unseated conservative Republican senators in Republican-leaning states last fall have set them apart from the rest of the Senate Democratic Caucus. While other Democratic freshmen have voted with a majority of the members of their party more than 95 percent of the time, Webb, Tester and Claire McCaskill of Missouri more often have gone their own way, mainly on budget and ethics issues.

According to a Congressional Quarterly analysis, Tester and Webb have voted with a majority of Democrats about 90 percent of the time. McCaskill has voted in line with a majority of her party on about 87 percent of the Senate’s roll call votes on which a majority of Democrats are aligned against a majority of Republicans.

The only Senate Democrats with lower party unity scores are Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Mary L. Landrieu of Louisiana and Evan Bayh of Indiana, all of whom cultivate moderate images while representing Republican-leaning states.
.
.
.
Webb — whose state is home to Philip Morris USA, the world’s largest cigarette maker — was one of four Democrats on March 23 who opposed a non-binding amendment to the budget that called for a cigarette tax increase to provide more money for the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. Webb said a cigarette tax would hurt the poor.

http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002487929.html

I remember saying before the election that we were likely to have a severe
case of buyer's remorse over some of the people we were putting into office.

all I heard in response was the sound of crickets chipring.

[muffin1]

28. Not saying he's perfect

Only much better than the alternative, in my opinion.

[hijinx87]

29. that was the reasoning before the mid-terms, as well.

"he is better than what we have now". true.

but is he actually good? I think the jury
is still out, but this guy is just not our natural
ally.

[muffin1]

31. All we CAN do on election day

is TRY to pick who we think is the best person given our choices. Between the two I had to choose from, I really couldn't have done anything differently!:shrug:

[hijinx87]

32. you are right, of course

but that wasn't really my point. I was just saying that I
didn't expect much more from him than we are getting right
now.

the euphoria about him was just difficult to understand.

[onenote]

39. a lot of the euphoria was based on (1) he's not george allen and (2) we control committees

with his election giving the Democrats a one vote majority.

[KoKo]

30. Yes....but think of Maccaca and George Allen. It could be worse....

with VA as conservative as it is.

[beachmom]

36. I don't have buyer's remorse at all. Webb is a WORLD better

than Allen. But he is senator of a red state (presidential elections), and is going to have to vote that way accordingly. I also had no illusions about his views on Vietnam. Yes, he was opposed to the Iraq War, but make no mistake -- he despises hippies, anti-war types, etc., and he's opposed to getting out of Iraq by de-funding.

I'm being realistic here. This is who he is, and how he will vote.

[Jimmy Hoops]

37. I from VA and voted for the guy,

but he's a pretty conservative, hawkish Democrat. Better than Allen but who isn't?

[LBJDemocrat]

41. McCaskill, Tester, and Webb are the future of the party

They're the protectionist wing of the party. I support them completely. If they vote like Republicans sometimes, it's not on issues critical to the economic well-being of American workers.

In fact, I hope Webb runs for president in 2016. He'll have my full support then.

And I really don't think voting against a cigarette tax is a big deal. It's essentially a sales tax on a good that's more or less a basic good for a lot of blue-collar people. If that aligns with Philip Morris, so what. I can think of worse companies to be in the pocket of (e.g. Clinton being in the pocket of Morgan Stanley and Tata Consultancy).

[hijinx87]

42. I certainly hope not. n/t

[Orangepeel]

45. Would Allen, Burns and Talent have voted with the Dems 87% of the time?

It doesn't make sense to be remorseful that you didn't buy what was never on the market. The ones we "bought" are a hell of a lot better than the available alternatives.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[LBJDemocrat]

43. I can't believe what I'm reading here

Senator Webb is a godsend for the Democratic Party. The only senators who rival Webb in being opposed to the tyranny of Wall Street via free trade are probably Dorgan and Brown.

Is everyone here overlooking that? Do all of you realize what kinds of pressure Wall Street puts on politicians so that they vote in favor of free trade agreements?

Are you even aware that the Democratic Party is in the process of betraying the worker on trade once again (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/editors)?

To hell with all your "he's not a real Democrat" bulls***. I don't give a flying f*** what he calls himself or whether he was in the Reagan administration, but if he's for helping food on the table for working class Americans, then he's got my support.

If you marginalize Webb, you'll be shooting yourselves in the foot.

[hijinx87]

44. he may be a "godsend" to YOUR democratic party.

he is nothing special to mine.

I merely tolerate him.

[Beaverhausen]

46. How did he vote yesterday?

Is there a list somewhere? thanks!

[hijinx87]

47. yea.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00181

[Beaverhausen]

48. thanks for that link!

:hi:

At least one of my senators did the right thing.