WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:46 PM
Original message |
Did you hear.... Obama voted no.... |
illinoisprogressive
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:47 PM
Original message |
Ethelk2044
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message |
4. I am Happy with His Vote! |
leftchick
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:47 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Keith said he voted after it had the votes to pass |
|
I am so not impressed. Clinton did the same. Fucking cowardly politicians.
|
Colobo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
2. BS. They did the right thing. |
bling bling
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
8. Somehow Obama is the bad guy. Go figure. On second thought, |
|
I don't care to figure some people out anymore. Talk about a waste of time and energy.
|
WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
15. It's not that I tink he is a bad guy... |
|
It's just that it was a little bit hollow and made Obama look, to me at least, just like an ordinary, everyday run of the mill politician...
Nothing special, no real courage, no real politcal capital expended...
Just politics as usual...
Not that there is anything wrong with that...
|
bling bling
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
22. I don't know about all that. |
|
Voting no did take a little bit of courage when you consider how powerful the issue can be if spun by the Republicans. Kerry's little botched joke when it came to the military may have seriously damaged his changes of even running. That's just one example. I'm sure you can think of a hundred others too. On the other hand, there were a couple DU'ers saying they wouldn't even consider voting for Obama unless he voted no.
So it wasn't as small of a thing for some people as it was for you. Not that there is anything wrong with your viewpoint.
But regardless. Obama is no coward.
|
WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
3. Yea, it sure was a profile in courage.... |
blm
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
5. No. They both made stirring speeches to convince the other Senators to vote |
|
Edited on Thu May-24-07 07:51 PM by blm
against the bill.
I heard it.....
in my dreams. Really - I'm glad they voted the correct way, but the game of chicken was a bit much.
|
WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. Yea well, it is good politcal theater at least.... |
draft_mario_cuomo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
35. Believing they are leaders seems to be a faith-based initiative |
|
HRC has always been a creature of the polls, like Bill Clinton. Obama had courage half a decade ago when he was an unknown local politician but apparently that courage melted away as he went to Washington in 2005 as a popular, ambitious national figure.
|
MonkeyFunk
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:52 PM
Original message |
|
there was never any chance it wouldn't pass.
|
Zynx
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
12. They also knew in advance it was going to pass big. Everyone did. |
|
Safe vote, not giving either of them any points.
|
CTLawGuy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
29. how is it a safe vote |
|
how does the mere passage of the bill help obama and clinton politically if they still voted against it???????
|
flpoljunkie
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
13. There was no question, all along, that the bill would pass overwhelmingly. |
leftchick
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
|
I don't know why all the drama about how they voted after they knew it was safe.
|
draft_mario_cuomo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
34. We expect it from HRC but Obama claims to be a new kind of politician |
|
Obama's campaign is largely premised on him being a new kind of politician who will create a new politics for the country. Apparently that is just a lame marketing ploy. His lack of leadership was more disappointing than HRC because the Clinton's worship at the altar of polls is well known.
|
CaliforniaPeggy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:51 PM
Response to Original message |
|
Now, would you please tell me what the significance is of his vote?
I haven't been keeping up with all this.....
:hi:
|
AlCzervik
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
10. giving Bush a blank check to continue his Glorious Crusade against brown folks |
|
with no---no timetables, just some bench marks to progress--Bush decides the progress.
|
WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
|
I was just piling on with all the other Obama threads...
He voted no because he could...
If he truly had balls, he would have come out a head of time like Kerry...
I don't know for sure that he didn't, but my guess is he didn't...
|
Colobo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:52 PM
Response to Original message |
9. Criticize Reid who voted YES |
|
and the other cowards who did as well.
|
AlCzervik
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message |
Colobo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
17. I don't see anyone criticizing him |
AlCzervik
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
18. no you don't but it's early still for the west coast. People are probably still |
jillan
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
19. I am - he just lost a dedicated supporter. |
Bullet1987
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
20. Clinton conviently came out and voted No after Obama did... |
WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
24. Another profile in courage.... |
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
21. You should take it as a compliment |
|
Biden isn't a factor or people would be criticizing him.It says that Obama IS a factor.
|
WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
23. Perhaps it's because Biden isn't treated like a rock star and the |
|
savior of the democratic party and Michael Jordon all rolled into one...
I just think this shows he is nothing more than your average everyday politico...
I still like him...
But to me, this shows his true colors...
|
blm
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
27. He voted yes AND supported his position openly. Just as NO supporters should have |
|
because that is what the MICROPHONE is there for.
|
draft_mario_cuomo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
draft_mario_cuomo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
36. Biden at least led and was forthright on this |
|
He was wrong but he did show some courage in coming out early for an unpopular stand while some others were refusing to take a stand.
|
illinoisprogressive
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 08:16 PM
Response to Original message |
25. I wish those who are ignorant would try to learn things first. obama always votes |
|
at the end. always. He waits until the crush dies out before going up. If anyone bothered to watch the senate they would know that. But, in your ignorant bliss you decide to pass judgement and find guilty even though you know nothing of the facts.
|
WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu May-24-07 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
26. So you are saying he always plays it safe.... |
w4rma
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
30. Exactly. Obama has voted with Hillary triangulation on every single Iraq-related bill except one. |
|
Edited on Fri May-25-07 10:42 AM by w4rma
TPM Compare And Contrast: Hillary And Obama's Votes On Iraq… Of the total of 69 votes we compiled -- some significant, some not -- it turns out that the two differed on only one. … As you can see, Clinton and Obama have voted the opposite way on only one vote on our list: The confirmation of General George Casey to be Chief of Staff for the Army, held just this past February. Hillary voted against confirmation, while Obama voted to confirm. … http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/mar/29/comparison_of_hillary_and_obama_votes_on_iraqhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3189244&mesg_id=3189244
|
WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
32. Thanks for proving my hunch.... |
ripple
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
33. And Edwards co-sponsored the one that mattered the most of all. n/t |
draft_mario_cuomo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
41. RFK would not meet the "2002 forever" standard set by Obama supporters |
|
RFK--the ultimate progressive anti-war icon--supported the Vietnam war initially before turning against it. Using the logic used by Obama supporters, even RFK would not pass muster!
The reliance on the "2002 forever" standard is in and of itself telling. There would be no need to heavily rely on it if Obama did not vote with HRC on 100% of substantive Iraq war bills and 97% of Iraq bills overall...the only thing that distinguishes them on the war is what happened half a decade ago.
|
ripple
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat May-26-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
42. And you have no idea how Edwards would have voted |
|
had he remained in the Senate. You can't claim your guy would have done things differently than either Obama or HRC, since he has not been in a position to actually vote on legislation and answer to constituents. It certainly isn't unreasonable to assume he would have continued to authorize funding for the war he championed.
And while there are certainly a lot of similarities between Iraq and Vietnam, the global opinion going into each conflict was starkly different. With Vietnam, we were unified with our allies and the motives for going in were unambiguous. Given how disastrous the Vietnam conflict turned out to be, with Iraq, we at least had the luxury of hindsight. It unfortunate that Edwards and the other IWR supporters did not take advantage of it.
|
draft_mario_cuomo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
40. So Obama votes with HRC 97% on Iraq and only differed on Gen. Casey |
|
So on the substantive votes on Iraq he is with HRC 100% of the time. That speaks for itself...Thanks for posting this valuable info! :toast:
|
draft_mario_cuomo
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
38. That is no virtue. You are saying he NEVER leads on anything |
|
At least HRC led on video games...
|
WCGreen
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Sat May-26-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
43. Yea, and she was right out there in getting people involved in |
|
selecting a campiagn song...
That shows true leadership...
|
CTLawGuy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 09:32 AM
Response to Original message |
28. he didn't vote NO fast enough |
|
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
:eyes:
|
snowbear
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
39. Maybe he just takes his time? --- Whether it's politics.. or... |
DU GrovelBot
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri May-25-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message |
31. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ## |
|
================== GROVELBOT.EXE v4.0 ==================
This week is our second quarter 2007 fund drive. Democratic Underground is a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for your support.
|
DU
AdBot (1000+ posts) |
Sun May 05th 2024, 09:34 PM
Response to Original message |