Cenk Uygur: The War is Over

[babylonsister]

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/7744

The War is Over
by Cenk Uygur | May 28 2007


Bush has lost the Republicans. The war is over.

snip//

The floodwaters are rising, and without the Republicans in Congress, this administration is left all alone in their effort to continue this misbegotten war. All Bush has left now is Cheney leading him around the Titanic, yelling, "Come on, Rose!"

The troops on the ground get it. The Iraqi army is not willing to fight with us to keep Iraq together. In fact, the very people we train often fight against us in the battles against insurgents and militias. Unfortunately, the situation in Iraq these days is that the people who believe in Iraq don't want to fight and the people who fight don't believe in Iraq.

The majority of the United States gets it. The Democrats get it. And now finally the Republicans have gotten the memo (though they are willing to go to September for a mission they no longer believe in, for political purposes). And even the Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State get it, that's why people friendly to their interests have leaked a plan they support to cut our troops in Iraq by 50% in 2008.

When asked about that plan, Senator Sessions replied, "I certainly hope that's what will occur. We cannot sustain this level, in my opinion, in Iraq and Afghanistan much longer."

As Senator McConnell said, "he handwriting is on the wall."

The Young Turks
ds

[Kagemusha]

1. Wars that are "over" tend to last a very long time.

WWI was supposed to be over in a month.

[babylonsister]

3. Yes, I'm thinking he's being a tad optimistic myself, but hopefully

he's right. Too bad we have to wait until September to see if it proves out; how many will die between now and then?:(

[Kagemusha]

4. No, we'll be waiting until Jan 2009. For the next president.

This president ain't for "quitting".

[babylonsister]

5. All due respect,I hope you're wrong. We shall see. nt

[Kagemusha]

6. I'm not hoping I'm right.

Just saying.

[Phredicles]

8. True, although at some point physical reality is likely to assert itself;

by September maybe we'll be seeing evacuation helicopters on rooftops? I don't see how long the armed forces can be expected to continue pursuing such a Sisyphean, morally repugnant "mission".

[Kagemusha]

10. That's actually a line I like to use. (re: reality asserting itself)

I was speaking as to the domestic politics side - queasy Republicans in Congress will do nothing to affect the situation. NOTHING. But that victory only lands Bush back to where he started: waging an anti-insurgency campaign the US military seems incapable of winning. Bush seems to be carrying on with the assumption that he has the initiative, and nothing will really happen unless he decrees that it happen. No Bush approval, no surge. No Bush approval, no withdrawal. He doesn't think about what other actors might try because... frankly they aren't all that important, except insofar as Bush gives them importance.

So what could happen in the meantime? Well, I don't think the insurgents are going to radically change their strategy. They're tweaking constantly and are doing pretty well so far, putting on pressure, ruining national reconciliation and reducing the legitimacy of the government. Some of what Sadr's up to may change things but, the thing is, Sadr himself isn't really served by being pigeonholed into the overseer of death squad thugs. (Being seen as such being the problem - since the Golden Mosque bombing, he's had to work a long time before he has at least half a chance of rapprochement with hardline but not Al Qaeda sympathizing Sunni figures.) Then you have a possible US conflict with Iran which could overturn the whole applecart. But, OTOH, Bush's signing off on covert operations to topple the Iranian regime isn't something that you do if you're just about to launch a broad military strike. Covert and full military do not mix well.

The reality is mixed and complex. So I'm not sure it'll assert itself in any particular direction that would cause US forces to contemplate a forced retreat. I expect more along the lines of a slowly boiling frog.

The thing is, civilians may be arguing over it but, military morale is still quite high because the enemy is so hated, the force isn't totally physically broken (running on thin margins, sure. but NOT truly broken yet) and the culture of war is very powerful. A War President asking a War Military to keep fighting the fight is not something they are going to deliver a "No" to. That too is part of the reality. Overall, I just don't see where the big 'snap' is going to occur.. but one may come. And if not now, just wait a few extra months.

[Demeter]

11. If Bush Won't Quit, Then He Has To Be Stopped

as legally and completely as possible, as soon as possible, if not sooner.

[sam sarrha]

2. we need to start Sunday Vigils in Parks in every city in the nation.. every sunday after church..

call it Patriot's Sunday Support of the Troops

[Nite Owl]

7. Truly scale back or just

scale back the 'surge' aka escalation?


"By September, when General (David) Petraeus is to make a report, I think most of the people in Congress believe, unless something extraordinary occurs, that we should be on a move to draw those surge numbers down," Session told CBS television's "Face the Nation" program.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070527/ts_alt_afp/usiraqpolitics_070527205106


So they escalate the numbers and then draw back to what was there and this is supposed to a real improvement that the GOP is going to take credit for? In the meantime how many more will die for bit of politics?

[cliss]

9. Well, notice how they never say leave completely?

Notice the statement, "they support to cut our troops in Iraq by 50% in 2008."

Cut in half.

NOT leaving, not by a long shot.

They ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to give up Iraq, that's what it comes down to. They simply cannot say good-bye to the oil.