AP article: Slick Hillary? - Sen. Hillary Clinton an artful dodger

[TeamJordan23]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_artful_dodger_2

Sen. Hillary Clinton an artful dodger
By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press Writer

Slick Hillary? Former President Clinton earned the nickname "Slick Willy" for his mastery in the political arts of ducking and dodging. He had a knack for convincing people on both sides of an issue that he agreed with them.

His wife may not be as smooth, but Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is doing a passable impression of the ever-parsing former president.

Would she pardon Scooter Libby?

No comment.

Would she nominate a union leader to be secretary of labor?

Maybe.

Would she repeal the North American Free Trade Agreement?

Can't say.

The Democratic presidential candidate drew several rounds of applause for her appearance before the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union Tuesday. She flashed her sense of humor, displayed a deep knowledge of the issues and held her own in a forum that pitted her against other presidential rivals. But what stood out was her reluctance to address questions head-on.

This habit of hers begs a question: Will the Clintonian tactic help her in the crowded Democratic field — or hurt her in the eyes of voters who have grown coarsened by the spin and obfuscation that marred both the Clinton and Bush administrations?

[Totally Committed]

1. She never says ANYTHING directly, and it drives me crazy!

There's always deniability, a loop-hole to craw out of, or a statement that could be taken a dozen different ways. And, most of the time, it's been run by a half dozen focus groups first.

Aaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TC

[Purveyor]

2. Oh, at first glance I thought the title was 'sick of Hillary?'...my bad but YES! eom

[Captain Hilts]

3. What's happened to the AP? They've started issuing editorials as news. nt

[TeamJordan23]

4. Not much to editorialize. Her Dem rivals said "No" to Libby pardon; she dodged. nt

[Captain Hilts]

6. I'm referring to a whole bunch of articles on various topics. They've crossed a line. nt

[rinsd]

11. You are very incorrect

Arguing that the article isn't editorialized is one thing(though how you cannot find it editorialized is beyond me).

Claiming things that didn't happen is quite another.

Hillary was the only one asked about the Libby pardon at which point the audience called Tweety out for the gotcha BS.

[dsc]

14. That is a lie

the other candidates weren't asked.

[Telly Savalas]

30. I dunno, but it's pretty obnoxious.

And I say this as a guy who prefers Edwards and Obama to Sen. Clinton.

[davidwparker]

5. What's wrong with answering: Libby was convicted of a crime and he should

not be pardoned because it had national security implications. Bush Sr. stated that those who out agents are the worst of traitors. For that reason, there should be no pardon.

She may not have had time to take a poll yet; therefore, no answer.

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

7. I am not a Hillary supporter, but this is a hit piece and we all should know better

I have said this before and I will say it again, argue the merits of your candidates progressive positions/values rather than trashing every other candidate. I am getting sick of all the hit pieces people keep putting up. If someone who supports the same candidate as you puts up a hit piece on another candidate, call them on it.

btw, there was an intelligent way to discuss Clinton's refusal to answer questions on these issues. This, however, is a hit piece and misses the mark considerably.

[ripple]

8. With you on that

This same AP writer has an Obama hit piece posted in another thread (thanks, wyldwolf, for pointing that out).

This sort of article is junk journalism, no matter who it is attacking.

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

9. Yeah, I came over here after wyldwol said I wouldn't call out people who bashed other candidates n/t

[wyldwolf]

10. Except I didn't say that about you, did I?

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

12. No, sorry, I should be more accurate, you said it in general to someone else

I felt it your post challenged Obama supporters to call out people posting hit pieces that weren't about Obama. I am happy to do this.

[wyldwolf]

13. I said it specifically to someone else.

But still, glad to see you took me up on it. I didn't expect the person I was addressing to.

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

15. agreed n/t

[ripple]

17. I've spoken up for other candidates on DU

I just tend to spend more time on Obama-related threads, since that's the candidate I support.
And as we know, there have been a plethora of Obama bashing threads to choose from lately.

[RufusTFirefly]

21. I agree on all counts

I'm not a Hillary fan, but I don't need some cheap-shot journalist to argue my point.
Fournier is sort of notorious.

[natrat]

16. as much as i realize the importance i dont think i will be able to vote for her

[draft_mario_cuomo]

18. I thought the OP was against "smears"

Oh. That only applies to his candidate...

[TeamJordan23]

19. I don't really consider it a total smear article. It does show that she is a skillful politician.

Although I don't agree with what she does, she does minimize risks for her.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

23. Classic reply: "It wasn't really a smear. It only is when I say it is."

;)

[mckeown1128]

26. I don't support Clinton...

but this is a bit smearish. ....on a side note does anyone know where Clinton stands on NAFTA???

[paulk]

31. article

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=atUKcP4eSEvY&refer=politics

[draft_mario_cuomo]

28. Ironic... nt

[illinoisprogressive]

20. and she is just more of the same old same old.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

24. So is Obama more of the status quo, since he has the same platform as HRC? nt

[eridani]

27. Yes, actually.

He can be an inspiring speaker, but he never gets beyond the platitude level.

[smalll]

22. Good for her -

Like all good generals, she knows the lay of the land; she knows her strongholds and her weak spots. So she won't comment on Scooter Libby (who almost no-one in America cares about one way or the other) because she knows the Clintons are vulnerable because of Marc Rich. So of COURSE she won't say "yes" and COMMIT to making her Secretary of Labor a union man (why for heaven's sake, none of them have any idea who they would pick for VP yet, let alone their Secretaries of Labor), she says "maybe." Only sane answer. And she doesn't want to call for the repeal of NAFTA, not only to prevent the opposition from calling up spectres of Smoot-Hawley and getting a chance to try to hang the "protectionist" label on her, but also because (remember?) NAFTA was boosted by the Clinton administration! (Gore trounced Perot over the issue in a debate, if I remember correctly.)

Hillary's a smart, disciplined, unflappable candidate. Put it this way: she'll never tell us she joined a hedge fund to learn about poverty, she'll never imply that her race and sex make her more electable than anyone else, she'll never talk about "first responders" when the debate question's subtext is "How would you as President go after those terrorist bastards?" and she won't mention "quiet riots" either, or any other obscure and unfortunate academic memes.

She's in it to win it, and she knows how to play. You go girl.

[struggle4progress]

25. Frick Fournier and the horse he fricked in on. His crap is getting old:

Reporters, Like Bees and Dogs, Can Smell Fear
By Liz Cox Barrett Mon 3 May 2004 03:45 PM

Democrats are afraid. We know ... because the Associated Press's Ron Fournier told us so on Friday, in a "newsview" piece headlined, "Dems Fear Kerry Looks Like Gore." And Adam Nagourney told us once again on Sunday in a New York Times piece titled, "Kerry Struggling to Find a Theme, Democrats Fear."

According to Fournier, "Democratic leaders" fear that Kerry is "getting 'Gored,'" that Republicans are successfully painting Kerry as a flip-flopper in the same way they painted Al Gore a "serial exaggerator" in 2000. For Nagourney, it is Kerry's "trouble in settling on a defining theme" that has "Democratic party officials" living in fear, along with the "pace of his advertising and his progress in setting up field organizations in battleground states." ~snip~

http://www.cjr.org/politics/reporters_like_bees_and_dogs_c.php


Fournier's Amnesia
y Thomas Lang Thu 18 Mar 2004 02:37 PM

Via Atrios, we've spotted the Associated Press' Ron Fournier writing revisionist history about his own coverage of Al Gore's 2000 campaign.

Yesterday, in a story on truth vs. distortion thus far in the 2004 campaign, Fournier wrote: "Few of assertions are patently wrong; most reside in the murky gray area between correct and incorrect -- a rhetorical margin of error. Just as Bush convinced many Americans in 2000 that Democrat Al Gore fabricated his biography and record, Bush and Kerry hope to open a credibility gap."

A little research, however, points out that Bush had a little help in convincing some voters that Al Gore had fabricated his biography and record in 2000 -- from, among others, Ron Fournier. ~snip~

http://www.cjr.org/politics/fourniers_amnesia.php

[illinoisprogressive]

29. Honesty and integrity are not her strong suits.

[paulk]

32. just a smear, just an attack, presented with no argument behind

it -

illinois"progressive" looks deeply into the mirror...