Is there any way we can BLOCK Hillary Clinton's nomination?

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

I'd like to believe that we and our affiliates and sympathizers make up a significant portion of the active voting bloc of the Democratic Party. The majority of us is against Hillary Clinton's nomination and between 40-50% of us will not vote for her if she receives the nomination.

Is there any way we can form a strategy so that she does not receive the nomination?

The more experienced folks here may remember the 1968 convention. Back then, Daley had pretty much a blank check to use harsh force. If we tried it today, and made a mass effort, both online and in the streets, can we make our voices heard?

I think we can.

[The Magistrate]

1. Of Course There Is, Sir

See to it another candidate gets more votes in the primaries next year.

Nothing else can serve the turn.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

3. With all due respect, Sir

There is more to politics than simply voting. If all we do is vote, then we're NOT fulfilling our duty as citizens to the full extent.

[The Magistrate]

10. It Remains, Sir, the Means By Which Nominating Delegates Are Apportioned

The person who has the most of these will receive the Party's nomination.

No demonstration, or any other act outside the Party's rules for the process, will have the slightest effect, in the face of a candidate's having received the most votes in the primaries, and possessing the most pledged delegates at the convention.

[Totally Committed]

62. This is only my opinion, and no one needs to agree or not, but....

if "the fix" is already in, there is nothing that can stop her, except maybe a candidate not already in the race, stepping in and sweeping up the truly Liberal/Progressive vote from under her in the primaries. If that happens, we can upset "the fix", probably.

Short of that, there is probably nothing since the DLC has really loaded the slate with their minions. They are playing this election like a game of musical chairs. If enough of them are in the election, when the music stops, odds are at least one of their minions will be seated. When Bayh and Vilsack pooped out, they managed to get Richardson to run, because Dodd is really running for VP.

So, that answer is probably longer than what you wanted, but it is my opinion.

TC

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Totally Committed]

69. I said "This is only my opinion"...

Is that not enough of a disclaimer?

Please let me know, because in my opinion, they are the closest thing in this Party to a Republicans to be found. BUT, that is only my opinion.

TC

Edited to add: Please check your PM's. Thanks!

[ieoeja]

75. Are they?

Remember what happened in Australia. Following early DLC success in the United States, a simliar organization was established in Australia and managed to take over the Liberal Party from within. After a decade of this Liberals discovered that this group was actually a front group for the Rightists.

They didn't move the party Right to win elections so they would then have the power to move the country Left (which, when you lay it out plainly like that doesn't make much sense). They moved the party Right so Australia and the Conservative Party could move further Right, so they could move Australia and the Liberal Party further Right, so they could move Australia and the Conservative Party further Right, ad nauseum.

Are you entirely certain the DLC is not the same as their Australian successor?

[Totally Committed]

84. That's one example I remember clearly, and I base a lot of my distrust and dislike of the DLC

on this very example.

There is another example, however. It's the one that brought Newt Gingrich, and his Republican Revolutionists into power in 1994. That was a carefully planned take-over the the Republican Party by the Neo-Con fringe. This "movement" also brought this country the RW SCOTUS, the Republican Party the RW Extremist Christians, and everyone PNAC's neverneding War. We also have them to thank for the Bush administration and Dick Cheney as the "shadow" POTUS. The Republican Party was taken over by the extreme RW of their Party from within, under the guise of anti-corruption. All the moderates and genuine conservatives have been replaced by RW extremists. I believe that is what's happening to the Democratic Party today. I think we are being taken over from within by an entity that does not share our values, and they mean to have this Party their way (RW and Corporatist), or dead in its tracks.

This, once again, is only my opinion, so I don't expect anyone to agree with me or not.

TC

[Tesha]

61. Unfortunately, ...

> See to it another candidate gets more votes in the primaries next year.
>
> Nothing else can serve the turn.

Unfortunately, RFK and Paul Wellstone would both
disagree with you about that; let's hope we don't
see things get to that level this year because it
might just provoke open revolution this time.

Tesha

[ProudDad]

2. Nope

According to the naysayers we need 60 votes in the Senate to do anything good... :) :evilgrin:

Where are the votes?????

[MannyGoldstein]

4. No

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[StudentsMustUniteNow]

6. Who the hell does she think she is?

We're the people. I'm sick of having the media push her. ENOUGH! WE NEED TO ASSERT OURSELVES AS CITIZENS!

[MannyGoldstein]

7. Embrace The Clinton Golden Triangle

The way of the windsock is the one true course.

[NCarolinawoman]

16. LOL!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[CoffeeCat]

42. What's with this windsock?

I saw the windsock mentioned in another post.

What is this windsock...and is Snoopy featured on this windsock?

Just askin.... :)

[durrrty libby]

8. Haha you funny

[puebloknot]

104. Resistance will happen if she is the inevitable nominee! nt

[LoZoccolo]

5. "Is there any way we can form a strategy so that she does not receive the nomination?"

Yeah, we'll do that right here on DU.

[mitchtv]

9. You don't support our nominee in 11-08

you deserve what comes . I don't support Senator Clinton, but she's better than any puke politician out there. The sooner you learn that the better we will all be. You want a riot? go visit the GOP convention.

[saracat]

11. And who is it you prefer? Many of your posts seem disparaging of several candidates.

[LoZoccolo]

102. Looks like he hasn't quite made up his mind! n/t

[freesqueeze]

12. That can't be right...

"40-50% of us will not vote for her if she receives the nomination"

I'm not buying it. I'm not a big fan of Hillary, and her memory hole on Iraq, but if she gets the nomination I (and most every other DUer) will vote for the best person for the job. I'm assuming that by "us" you mean the progressives who read and contribute to DU.

But if I were another democratic candidate I would start shining a light on her weaknesses, starting with her Iraq-amnesia.

[Connie_Corleone]

13. This is not 1968.

The primaries decide who the nominee will be. If more Democrats vote for Hillary over the other candidates, then so be it. That's the democratic process in action.

She's not my first choice, but if she gets the nomination, I'll vote for her. I'll take Hillary over the repug candidates any day.

I'm not going to actively work against a Democratic candidate.

If you want to live in the past, go ahead.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

14. The netroots and progressives must unite in order to defeat the awesome HRC machine

I think the best thing that has happened for HRC this year has been Obama's entry into the race. That divided the netroots (while Edwards is the clear favorite among the netroots he has nothing like the overwhelming support Dean enjoyed on the netroots) and progressives. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say the DLC put him up to it to help divide the progressive vote while also simultaneously presenting a solid plan B for Third Way Democrats and corporate America.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

19. Exactly. I have a feeling Clinton and Obama will strike a deal n/t

[draft_mario_cuomo]

28. Clinton-Obama? nt

[Tellurian]

29. Never! The Clintons take no prisoners and besides, Obama is damaged goods!

Obama mistakenly said, (instead of Bill) "She was President", last night..

http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/443363,CST-NWS-dems26.article

[Moochy]

52. HRC: "We balanced the budget" n/t

[durrrty libby]

30. What kind of student are you?

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

34. Law n/t

[Truth2Tell]

85. I've wondered since Obama got in

if he wasn't a stalking horse for HRC - or the fall-back position for those corporate backers who have come to fear that Hillary's baggage makes her unelectable.

My tin-foil hat is getting fuzzy and unclear messages on this, so my jury is still out.

To stop the Clinton machine, Progressives would need to unite behind an alternative... after Iowa and NH, but before Super Primary Day. Could happen.

[onenote]

15. "We"? We are a small slice of a small part of the base. Live with it.

First of all, I don't even know what you mean by "affiliates and sympathizers" and while it is clear that you would "like to believe" that "we" make up a significant portion of the active voting bloc of the Democratic Party, that belief is, to put it mildly, a pipedream.

In 2004, in just California and New York, there were 3 and a half million votes cast in the Democratic primaries. There have been 105,169 user registrations on DU in six years. Do the math.

You are under the serious misunderstanding that DU is the "base" for the Democratic Party. Its a relatively small slice of a small part of the base.

[pnwmom]

51. And the Hillary-haters here are just a fraction of the small slice of the

small part of the base.

[Tesha]

67. So you won't miss our votes then. Don't complain later. (NT)

[rinsd]

76. So you'll take your ball and go home?

[pnwmom]

90. When the Republican wins, you can thank yourself. n/t

[onenote]

95. I'd like all Democrats to vote for Democrats, but anyone who thinks

that DU represents a "significant portion of the active voting bloc of the Democratic Party" or that a majority of DUers would sit on their hands, vote repub, or 3rd party if Clinton gets the nomination is just deluding themselves.

If someone wants to make an emotional appeal, fine. But to try and support that appeal with ludicrous factual claims is pretty stupid.

[SaveElmer]

17. Hillary is the frontrunner for one simple reason...

She is the most popular Democrat running for President...that is a fact you need to wrap your head around. It isn't the media pushing her, it isn't "name recognition," it isn't lazy apathetic Democrats, it is that outside of the small patch of Democratic grass that makes up the "netroots" she is a highly popular figure within the party...

No amount of caterwauling from the netroots is going to change that....

Now if you have a candidate you prefer, I suggest you get out from behind your keyboard and hit the pavement, or the phones...start giving Democrats a reason to vote for someone else...and those of us who believe Hillary is by far the best choice for nominee and President will be making our case as well!!!

[ClassWarfare2008]

50. Yes, and the one simple reason is....

...because the mediawhores said so! Including Rupert Murdoch. Who also holds fundraisers for her.

Rupert Murdoch is an enemy of this nation and anything good that remains of this nation. If he endorses a candidate, that should be enough reason to oppose her. Though her blatant right wing pandering (and position in the anti-Democratic, anti-American DLC) pushed me away long before that.

How are they voting in California these days?? It's no accident that primary got moved up. I suggest that election is watched VERY closely, and not by the party that keeps returning Feinstein to the Senate......

[Warpy]

18. Vote against her in the primary

and campaign for an alternative, if you are able. Those are the only legal means open to you.

I think her candidacy would be a disaster, too.

[movonne]

20. Gore runs....

[pnwmom]

21. Up to 50% of DUers won't vote for HRC in the general? Sorry, but

I refuse to believe that half of us are so stupid we'd rather help a Republican win.

Or are so stupid we don't know how progressive her overall voting record is.

[nevergiveup]

22. I don't support Hillary

nor do I particular like her nor do I think she has much of a chance in the general election but if she wins the nomination I will bust my butt working for her. If you decide to take to the streets perhaps you should do it for something productive like fighting the Dick Cheneys and Ann Coulters of the world. Next to these totally destructive characters Hillary looks pretty damn good.

[Nedsdag]

72. I'm not busting my butt for her.

I won't pay attention to anything political and just vote in November. No bumper stickers, no canvassing, nothing. That's as much support I'm giving. Nothing more, nothing less.

It'll be another candidate I have to vote for, not because he/she is the best candidate but because I really won't have any say in the matter.

[polichick]

23. What are you so afraid of??

Clinton might not be as progressive as some of us would like (myself included), but she's a far cry better than the Reps ~ and we sure could put that charismatic First Gentleman to work patching up our tattered relationships around the globe!

[Alamom]

56. Good question & good post. eom

[illinoisprogressive]

24. It is blocking in the mainstream where people don't know about her.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

25. What do you mean? n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

86. Don't ask ....

You might get dizzy from the responce.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

31. StudentsMustUniteNow is one of the best contributors at DU nt

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

33. Thanks DMC!

:toast:

[draft_mario_cuomo]

41. Keep up the good work, especially the focus on economic issues!

:toast:

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

32. You are suggesting that I am advocating violence?

It appears that this is what you are doing. If it is, it's against DU rules.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

37. I'm the mayor of Chicago?

Thanks, that's a compliment I guess.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

40. Good one

If you knew which law school I went to, you'd shit in your fucking pants.

[sueh]

44. Why?

[Moochy]

53. Dupe

self-delete

[Moochy]

54. Quelle Suprise!

An HRC supporter goes for a personal attack? ?? ?? GASP! :puke:

[jobycom]

27. Yes, let's make sure the candidate with the least votes gets the nomination.

That candidate will be sure to win in November... well, except that they can't even get the majority of their own party's votes... But hey, this is America, and democracy is soooo last century.

[MasonJar]

35. I do NOT want to!

[pinto]

38. Make your voice heard and vote. The primaries are the process now.

Mayor Daley's primary role in the '68 Democratic Convention was about the anti-war protests outside the convention hall, not the political maneuvering among delegates inside. Both played off each other, yes, and the Mayor held some large sway in the Democratic party process in those days.

Hubert Humphrey came out of the convention as our nominee.

If peaceful protest is your favor for political action, go for it. Advocacy for a particular candidate? Go for it. Opposition to a particular candidate? Let that be known as well. Participation counts.

I think looking to 'block' one primary candidate's nomination or inclusion in today's nation wide system of primaries is somewhat short sighted.

[MonkeyFunk]

43. If she gets the most votes

she's the nominee. That's democracy for you.

[emilyg]

45. Yes

and I will be very happy to vote for her.

[ronnykmarshall]

87. Oh who needs them silly rules.

Rules are so un-hip and are for old and non-college educated people.

[KingFlorez]

46. Voting in the primaries

And if she wins the primaries, then the result must be accepted.

[GreenTea]

47. Yes, don't vote for her...I'm loving Edwards more & more.

[CK_John]

48. Students make up the lowest voting block, about 4%. I doubt you are even registered and

probably don't know your state deadline for registering and will have a great reason for missing the primary. A dog ate my homework excuse!

[Moochy]

55. More personal attacks! gooo hrc!

[ronnykmarshall]

89. Yeah! YEAH!

Obama supporters NEVER do that! :eyes:

[Moochy]

109. A Pox on both their houses?

I'll stand up for HRC when I see her getting unfairly slammed by dishonest blind partisan hypocrites.

So far her most strident supporters seem to have the monopoly, but I'll admit I've been picking and choosing what threads to read, and using Ignore on the "repeat offender" dishonest hypocritical supporters from all the camps. So what you say probably is right.

My possibly biased view is one of the side-effects of over utilizing the ignore feature. Point taken.

[last_texas_dem]

57. Wow, that's an awful lot of negative assumptions

to make about someone simply because they happen to be a student. You sound almost gleeful about the low-voter turnout among students, as if that's somehow a good thing.

[Nutmegger]

59. Uncalled for

I'm a young person.

I'm registered to vote and have voted in every election (not just the big Presidential elections) since I was 18.

I know all the names of Connecticut's Representatives. (I even volunteered for one.)

I know the Governor.

I know my Senators. (Sorry for LIARman.)

I know my state and local Representatives and contact them often.

I also know the names of all the Supreme Court Justices.

Et cetra...

I didn't just spout that off to brag; just because I'm a young person doesn't mean I'm zoned out on my iPod, hopped up on crystal meth and totally disconnected from reality. For you to assume so based on the age group of a person is foolishness.

Edited for clarity.

[AlCzervik]

49. so if she gets the most votes legitimately she shouldn't get the nomination?

you would try and make people's votes not count because you don't like her? That doesn't sound very democratic.

[Ethelk2044]

58. she has a lot of negatives. No one has really mentioned them yet

Some people are registering as dems to vote for her opponents

[SKKY]

60. Actually, there is an easy way to block her nomination...

...convince Al Gore to run. That'll do the trick.

[Totally Committed]

63. That sure as hell is ONE way.....

It would take all the truly Liberal/Progressives away from her in a split second, and leave her with just the DLC centrists as her base.

I'm all for it.

TC

[MadHound]

64. I've a question,

We're seeing the spectacle of Hillary being pushed on us by the media, the DLC, the Third Way Dems and the 'Pugs. My question is how are we to know that the votes will be counted, or counted correctly in this primary? Will we stand for a candidate, who in addition to having all of the corporate advantages, decides to play fast and loose with the vote count? Will party members stand for it? Will we call her on it? Will we go ahead and let her be our nominee in spite of it?

I ask this because of the record of the past three elections, where the vote has been rigged. What happens when this starts creeping down into the primary votes, for you know that sooner or later it will happen.

[Totally Committed]

70. This is "the fix" I was talking about in my post upthread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3342818&mesg_id=3343424

If the election has indeed been "fixed" she will be our nominee no matter what we do.

TC

[MaineDem]

65. See that she doesn't have more delegate votes than all other candidates

If she has the most delegates why should we try to block that? The process is in place in each state.

Do you know how to become a delegate in your state???

[Freddie Stubbs]

66. The nomination will be decided in voting booths and caucuses, not in the streets

Mob rule will not determine who our party nominates.

[Skip Intro]

71. If she gets the most votes and wins the nom, I will support her

And unless Gore gets in, it looks like she might be the nom.

[Forkboy]

73. Hillary will get the nom because the people against her are scattered among the other candidates.

Without any organization to combine those forces the nomination is Hillary's.

Then we get to find out how many of those people will vote for her after months of being pissed on by her oh so friendly supporters,and we'll see if that will be enough to counter the enormous turnout she'll inspire in the right.

[ronnykmarshall]

93. You mean the un-hip, old and uneducated HRC supporters?

Yeah, all them Obama supporters just walk on water don't they? :eyes:

[Forkboy]

96. One:I never said or implied anything about Hillary supporters being "unhip,old and uneducated".

Two:I'm not an Obama supporter and not thrilled with them either,but once again a Hillary supporter resorts to the "they're just as bad" defense.

[ronnykmarshall]

99. I'm not talking about you, Godziller boy! :)

There is a certain Obama supporter that uses that line over and over and over and over!

[tblue37]

74. I hope to goodness that there are not that many idiots on our side

of the fence!

". . . and between 40-50% of us will not vote for her if she receives the nomination."

[wyldwolf]

78. Organized Idiocy? Organized Futility?

[durrrty libby]

77. This is truly the most idiotic thread I have seen in a long time

Good luck buddy. You'll need it

[Rockholm]

92. They just keep getting worse and worse.

[NoPasaran]

97. I actually thought the "Hillary's first name scandal" one was worse

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3343202&mesg_id=3343202

But this is certainly in the running.

[durrrty libby]

98. I had not seen that. Good grief there are some anal people here

[rinsd]

79. You have to get everyone but Obama to drop out.

Coalescing the anti-Hillary vote with Obama's support.

Maybe then you would have a chance.

"The more experienced folks here may remember the 1968 convention. Back then, Daley had pretty much a blank check to use harsh force. If we tried it today, and made a mass effort, both online and in the streets, can we make our voices heard?"

Yeah how did that work out in the general election? :eyes:

[Imagevision]

80. The debate between Hillary and Obama will decide my vote...

[rinsd]

82. I like them both and would be happy with either as nominee

[polichick]

81. I repeat...

What are you so afraid of?? Really, I'm curious to know what awful things you think she'd do as president.

[OneBlueSky]

83. absolutely . . . get Al Gore into the race . . . (maybe even Nobel winner Al Gore) . . . n/t

.

[sampsonblk]

88. Keep hope alive

I say this thing is over. But there is always the chance something could happen to change the race.

[ronnykmarshall]

94. It ain't over till it's over.

I don't for one second believer that HRC has a lock on the nomination. And this is coming from a Clinton voter.

[sampsonblk]

100. But its out of the other candidates' hands

There isn't anything they can do or say to beat her. The only way for someone else to win is if something goes wrong for Clinton. No one is going to beat her in a debate and somehow win the nomination. And no clever jingle or slogan is going to do it either.

[ronnykmarshall]

103. She IS a great debater.

[Rockholm]

91. Oh, please. Just go away.

Some of us actually LIKE her, believe it not not.

[William769]

101. Yes there is a way.

But it's not democratic. Try Communism.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

105. Ok, one guy accuses me of supporting McCain, now you accuse me of COMMUNISM??

:eyes:

[Totally Committed]

106. It's okay... he saves the REALLY bad stuff for people he doesn't like.

trust me, that post was practically a hug. ;)

TC

[Moochy]

110. the 1950's called

they want their red-baiting rhetoric back.

[Ethelk2044]

107. Convience all of your Friends and Relatives to vote. Go out and Register

new voters.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

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