*** Official Logo debate thread #3 ***

[Ediacara]

Live feed: http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/

Thread #2: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3440463&mesg_id=3440463

[libnnc]

1. thank you

:kick:

[Liberalboy]

2. Just joined the debate via the Internet

How has it been so far, watching Clinton now

[Ediacara]

5. it's almost over

Obama and Edwards: nice words, weaseling on marriage

Kucinich and Gravel: big support of gay issues

Richardson: did great things, thinks being gay is a choice!

Clinton: redux of Obama and Edwards.

[goodgd_yall]

7. They all are talking circles about gay marriage

except for Gravel and Kucinich

[Colobo]

3. Melissa hits Hillary HARD!

[Tellurian]

53. Melissa was hitting Bill!

and Hillary had the right answer. To paraphrase, she basically said, "things take time...and you want things done so fast!"

and Melissa IS a Kucinich supporter!

[Dawgs]

4. 'I'm sorry Melissa but you're wrong'

[Dawgs]

6. 'I'm the leader'

[Liberalboy]

9. Wow

Marching in a PARADE! That makes her couragous? Jeez

[ecstatic]

19. Not really, but it speaks to the "changing attitudes" approach

:shrug:

[jefferson_dem]

14. It's almost like Hillary is looking for her sista souljah moment here.

Very careful and methodical with her language and positions.

[Connie_Corleone]

18. You took the words right out of my head!

I was thinking the same thing.

[AlCzervik]

8. not enjoying Senator Clinton's answer at all.

[bicentennial_baby]

10. Wow, she sucks...

She doesn't pander well...And what she does say...how insulting.

[AlCzervik]

painful to listen to her on this subject.

[bicentennial_baby]

31. seriously. ouch. I didn't realize how bad it could be...

Eww. x(

[Cameron27]

11. Maybe if she was't allowed to marry Bill, she'd understand

Melissa's feelings.

[Colobo]

12. Richardson and Clinton are awful.

[Tellurian]

68. The live audience reviews are all positive!

I haven't heard one negative comment about Hillary. They appreciated her sincerity. It's not going to happen overnight!

They're saying Obama needs more depth to develop conversations conducive to the issues.

[Dawgs]

13. Hillary not doing well with the GLBT topic.

And I honestly don't mean that as an attack.

[jefferson_dem]

22. I agree. Either it's a contrived effort to *not be good* or she just really isn't.

Seriously unimpressive...

[goodgd_yall]

15. I'd feel like you

if I were in your shoes. I understand....

Then do something with your understanding

All wrong.

[ecstatic]

16. I love Hillary in this format

She doesn't have to compete with male voices and she seems very sincere.

[Colobo]

17. Yeah, we get to real what she is really all about.

[rodeodance]

23. yes, I think she is very sincere.

[Cameron27]

25. I think she does come across very well,

but it's too bad that she's not ready to support gay marriage. It's too bad that none of the top 3 can say it.

[Dawgs]

29. Has she said anything, other than 'don't ask don't tell' and 'Im against gay marriage'?

[Ediacara]

20. Q to Clinton: what's with your flip flop on Pace's comments?

another non-answer...

[JTFrog]

33. Well someone told her what she said didn't

sound good, so she rushed to fix it the next day.

[Ediacara]

39. Exactly

[Dawgs]

21. Her best defense is 'I was defending don't ask don't tell'

[Liberalboy]

24. She has no clue, sigh...EOM

[jenmito]

40. Chris Matthews will say Hillary was the clear winner...

as I said at the end of the last thread, he'll say Obama made rookie mistakes, and won't mention Kucinich at all. :eyes:

[Ediacara]

26. Would you nominate a JSCOTUS that's anti-gay? NO

[Colobo]

27. Hillary: "I'm your girl"

Bah.

[Ediacara]

28. Are you our girl? I'm your girl?

I thought she was a woman :eyes:

[libnnc]

30. "I am your girl." No, Senator.

I'm sorry.

[goodgd_yall]

32. She has an impressive presence

I see why people support her despite her not being that great on some issues.

[pinto]

34. Sen. Clinton has spoken well.

[Tellurian]

56. Except for Etheridge...the audience liked that she was honest with them...

[Colobo]

35. She closed well..

[Dawgs]

36. Why do her supporters fall for the non answers?

I don't get it.

[Colobo]

37. Because of Bill.

[ElizabethDC]

47. Haha, not quite. Bill has nothing to do with what she said tonight.

really, most of us are able to separate Bill from Hillary.

[Colobo]

54. Chill, dear Elizabeth! My jabs at Hillary supporters always exclude my friends. :)

[ElizabethDC]

70. You should always clarify - say "Hillary supporters - except Elizabeth" :)

mostly because I just want the shout out! :evilgrin:

[Tellurian]

58. What did Obama say...he talked about himself the whole time as it was a stump speech...

the usual, empty rhetorical dialog..

[ecstatic]

38. I can't believe none of the republicans agreed to debate on that network

I guess it's no different than how they shunned the NAACP debate, but damn, at least one guy showed up for that. LOL.

[goodgd_yall]

49. I know, slap the NAACP and the LGBT community in the face

Says it all, right there.

[Ediacara]

41. UP NOW: The post debate forum?

[AlCzervik]

42. huh!! spin alley just called--"Bill Richardson did not do well tonight"

amen bro.

[Ediacara]

45. it's true, and a big disappointment IMHO

[libnnc]

46. "...did not do well tonight." That's being kind.

He sucked donkey balls.

[rodeodance]

52. he is up and down when it comes to debates. I like him.

[libnnc]

he lost me with his stumble on the born vs choice question

that's like...basic LGBT 101. Horribly out of touch.

[SharonRB]

48. He sure didn't

and now I find myself with no second choice after Gore. What's a girl to do?

[AlCzervik]

51. i have a similar problem, i'm leaning but not firm on anyone and Kucinich is looking

better everyday.

[goodgd_yall]

55. 2 good debates/forums in a row

from Dennis.

[SharonRB]

75. He's starting to win me over, I must admit

But can he really win either the primary or the general? :shrug:

[billyoc]

43. This was the best coverage of the primary I've seen so far.

Brava, HRC and Logo. :woohoo:

[SharonRB]

76. I loved that format! n/t

[Liberalboy]

44. Nice!

Post-debate wrap-up is nice and seems like Richardson is getting blasted

[w13rd0]

50. I wish they could organize more forums...

...I thought it was great. Them gays sure are good at organizing a nice coffee talk! :)

[IndianaGreen]

57. Richardson stumbled badly on a core issue, while Hillary was surprisingly flat

Hillary had the tactical advantage of being the last one on the forum, yet to my surprise, she came out very flat in front of the LGBT audience. Perhaps the format, which is not conducive to rehearsed sound bites, did not suit Hillary.

Dennis Kucinich validates my faith in him, and in his candidacy.

[goodgd_yall]

59. Post forum discussion

The pundits are not taking Kucinich seriously.

Too bad.

[Colobo]

60. What are they saying about Obama?

[goodgd_yall]

63. Well I can say some guy just came on who said

Clinton changed the room! He just thought she was SO presidential.

Geesh.

[Colobo]

65. What about Obama?

[goodgd_yall]

67. Here it is

Obama was a mixed bag.

Capehart was a believer. He liked that he has been discussing the homophobia issue in the black community.

[Tellurian]

73. Yes,, thats the term he used, Obama's a mixed bag and..

They're saying Obama needs more depth to develop conversations conducive to the issues.

[SaveElmer]

61. Post debate wrap up...Hillary among friends...

Getting good vibes!!!

[Cameron27]

62. Haha this guy is great...

"Obama looked me in the eye and said he loved me!" He thought Edwards was patronizing and condescending, and Hillary was the best.

[goodgd_yall]

64. His joke about Kucinich was lame though

[Cameron27]

66. I just heard the end of the conversation, I missed the lame part lol.

[goodgd_yall]

71. Oh, it was just a stereotype

About hippy stuff

[Colobo]

69. The black interviewer liked Obama's answer

[jenmito]

72. Obama should get credit for being first to accept the invitation...

I wonder if Hillary had to find out if he was going before she accepted...

[goodgd_yall]

74. The forum is on again right now

go to www.logoonline.com

[penguin7]

77. This is not my issue, and I am not understanding

the big deal between civil unions and marriage.

I don't really care, except that I want to know how Kucinich could be hurt in the polls for supporting marriage.

[w13rd0]

78. The deal boils down to this...

...a majority of the American public now supports civil unions. Why? Because they recognize that not imparting benefits to committed couples is wrong. But they are still a little creeped out so they want "gay marriage" to be seperate, but equal. And civil unions is their way to do that.

Don't get me wrong, we appreciate the fact that the public is coming around on this, we'd just like them to recognize that they are repeating mistakes of the past and hope that they quickly realize and rectify it.

As for it hurting Kucinich in the polls...I don't think it hurts him, those that would vote against him based on his position on this one issue aren't likely to be among those that would have voted for him had his position been otherwise. But speaking as someone who has worked with rural Missouri democratic organizers...

We're going to have a heck of a time getting some of these people to work for and support a candidate that isn't a male WASP. Put support for gay marriage on top of that, and it'd be damn near impossible. These are people (strong union Dems mind you) that use the n-word in everyday conversation, and have a view of women that lags about 20 years behind the norm. And regarding the LGBT community, they use the same kind of phrases used 20 years ago. "I don't hate gay people, I've got gay folk I'm friendly with, I just don't want them teaching my kids or see them walking down main street holding hands." This country still has a LONG way to go. We're not that much more socially evolved than a knuckle dragging neaderthall, in the great scheme of things.