Here they go with the "educated elite" stuff again...using it on Obama just like they did Dean in 04

[madfloridian]

For too long that "educated elite" theme has been allowed to go on. They must find it easy to dumb down education systems when all the while calling educated people elite.

We must not allow them to use the two words together in a negative way against any candidates.

August 16, 2007
Support from Academic Elite Not Key to Winning
A new Gallup poll found that Sen. Barack Obama has much higher support among the most educated voters while Sen. Hillary Clinton receives more support from those with a high school diploma or less.

However, while support among educated elites may be responsible in part for Obama’s excellent fundraising, it will not necessarily translate to electoral victory. Gallup points out that in the previous three election cycles the democratic candidate receiving the most support from the most educated -- Howard Dean in 2004, Bill Bradley in 2000, and Bob Kerrey in 1992 -- did not go on to win the party’s nomination (despite a boost in fundraising). The last democrat to win the nomination with similar skewing in support by education was Michael Dukakis in 1988.
Support from academic elite not key to winning

I remember when the Pew Research study on 11,000 supporters of Howard Dean showed high levels of education. Educated people supporting a candidate...can't have that. Even at Democratic forums that study was used in a negative way. People never stopped being insulting about that poll. I have had posters here use it frequently to attempt to show we are "out of touch".

Recently a Washington Post reporter referred to that Pew study to justify some statements he made about Howard Dean's supporters. He said the Pew study justified these statements he made in an article.

Obama campaign advisers -- many of them campaign veterans who watched Dean's slow rise and rapid descent at close range -- reject the comparison, arguing that their candidate and organization won't repeat the mistakes of the former Vermont governor.

But as Obama has shattered fundraising records over the past few months while continuing to trail Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) by double digits in polls, the challenge for the senator from Illinois has become clear: He must turn the intense devotion of his backers into a force that can win primaries, expanding his base of support beyond the narrow band of Democratic elites who backed Dean.

Obama Faces the Test Dean Failed: Broadening Support

The reporter did not use "educated elite" in the article, but he did justify his use of the word "elite" by the Pew Poll.

The Dean Activists: Their Profile and Prospects

It is not okay to play down the role of educated people. The word "elite" should never be used in conjunction with the word "educated".

DFA responds to the WP article that speaks of the "narrow band of Democratic elites"...

We ought to speak up when they do that.

[William769]

1. How is that any different than people using the uneducated that support Hillary?

[madfloridian]

7. They are wrong to do that.

And they should not get away without someone questioning it. It makes it sound just as bad against Hillary in a backhanded way.

[trashcanistanista]

48. I read another take on this

in Newsweek where they were saying the uneducated and uninformed only look toward the most popular candidates which is why Hilary will get their support. There may be some truth to it. I don't think it is a backhanded insult to her. Remember, 60% of Americans could not locate England on a map (per Sicko), we have a lot of uninformed in this country and some of them are Democrats too.

[ronnykmarshall]

23. and un hip!!

and old!

[Solon]

2. What's wrong with being informed and curious?

I never understood this Intelligephobia(made up a word!) that seems to exists in this country, is there something wrong with being well read?

[BOSSHOG]

9. It is quite a hoot to watch them operate

rove painted bush as just a good ole boy rambling through life cause he knew there were millions in this country who would cotton to that sort of buckeroo. Then yesterday he went on limbaugh and was telling the world how brilliant bush is.

Yeah, by gawd your smart so you must hate this country ya commie! I'd rather be ignorant then red. Hey, arlo what rhymes with ignorant?

[Odin2005]

36. Many people mistakenly associate intellectualism with arrogance and snobishness.

Intellectualism has also become, unfortunately, associated with the endless heaps of babble spewed by philosophers of the continental tradition, the Postmodernists especially. Finally there is the fact that the more educated a person is the less likely he/she will be a religious fundamentalist; thus social conservatives have come to regard intellectualism as a "satanic" influence.

[C_U_L8R]

3. Having an education is elitist ???

Well that's a pretty darned ignorant point of view.

Frankly I'd prefer to have a president who comes with his OWN brain (and heart for that matter)

[jobycom]

11. It's not about the candidate, it's about the voters.

See, Democrats come in two types. Educated elite, and unwashed masses. So whichever candidate they choose, you know it's bad.

Another angle--if Obama loses, they can say "The Democrats rejected the intelligent one for the popular one." If he wins: "The Democratic elite are again picking their out-of-touch candidates."

We are less fortunate. We can't divide the Republicans into groups like that. They are all one mass of homogenized, white, stupid, murdering shitheads. We can be sure their candidate will be, too.

[madfloridian]

14. Yes, both are equally bad.

according to them.

[Grandrose]

31. Oh Lord...you nailed it perfectly!

The last paragraph was brilliant!:applause: :rofl:

[BOSSHOG]

4. I find it rather humorous, I would suggest that the opposite of educated elite

is ignorant trash moron. What would you rather be? Per one definition in Webster's College Dictionary, elite is the best of a choice or group or class. So you can be that or you can be a bush supporter. "They" have set the parameters.

Its very telling that the spin masters of the right know that there lemmings and dumbass supporters would think being the best of something is a bad thing.

I recall an Old West Wing when President Bartlett said (not an exact quote but very close) how dare we display our education and knowledge via our vocabulary.

[jobycom]

5. Good analysis. It's a double edged sword, too, that they strike both ways with.

I'm too lazy to track it down, but I saw a similar article on MSNBC.com a couple of days ago. The title was something like "Obama has trouble winning downgrade Democrats." The gist of the article was that Obama only appeals to the educated elite, not the "downgrade" Democrats (I think that was the word--it was similarly offensive). They explained that only 34% of Democrats have a college degree, and only that elite likes Obama, who talks about buying arugula in Whole Foods to farmers who don't know what arugala is and live nowhere near Whole Foods.

They go on to explain that the rest of the Democrats, the "downgrade" Democrats whom they imply are a bunch of ignorant schmoes, are supporting Hillary and Edwards.

Notice the nice little flick of the wrist? The elites are out of touch and support Obama, the rest of the Democrats are ignorant and support Clinton and Edwards.

More proof that the mainstream media is the advertising department for the Republican Party.

[madfloridian]

10. Yes, it does work against both of them.

It is meant to. They want to insult both the "educated" and those with not so much.

They do it well.

[wyldwolf]

6. "they" are such... monsters!

[Brigid]

8. This country has always had an anti-intellectual streak.

And the Bush regime is the worst example yet. :banghead:

Don't stay in school, kids -- you don't want to become one of the "educated elite." :eyes:

[AnotherGreenWorld]

32. Richard Hofstadter's "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life" is an excellent read on that subject.

[madfloridian]

12. I keep waiting for the next step: WWJHABW

Who would Jesus have a beer with?

[Rottenmac]

40. Im making stickers of that right now.

... not only because it is hysterical, but also it is International Canned Beer Month.

:toast: :beer: :rofl:

[niceypoo]

13. It appeals to their uneducated core...

I am sure this patriotic republican loathes the, "educated elite:"



and of course the republi-twins would never vote for an elitist liberal:



Yes, I believe that it is safe to say this plays to their base!

[madfloridian]

15. LOL

:hi:

[William769]

17. I rest my case.

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. :eyes:

[madfloridian]

18. Since I agree with you that it was also an insult to Hillary...

and said so in an above post....I won't try to figure out the rolling eyes stuff.

I think the pictures are funny and silly and I needed a laugh.

[William769]

20. Sorry I meant to respond to the person you responded to.

My fault.

[madfloridian]

21. Thanks.

:hi:

[William769]

22. Back atcha.

:hi:

[Cobalt-60]

28. More proof why siblings shouldnt mate

Those are some pretty rotten teeth to be displaying so openly.
What do you think it is, poor hygiene, crystal meth, or bar room brawling?
And I'm sure those two below would be admitted unchallenged to any Republicon convention.

[niceypoo]

58. The guy with the rotten teethe and poor hygene...

...is from a, "minuteman," rally in Az. It's a safe bet that he is a Bush supporter. As for the twins, look closely at the guy on the right, note the dried on drool stains running down the front of his shirt....just noticed that upon closer inspection.....definately a sure sign of a stalwart Bush supporter.

[Grandrose]

50. LOL!!!!

There are tears streaming down my eyes, priceless!!!:spray: :rofl:

[rocktivity]

16. After six years of being led by a member of the UN-educated elite

I think that strategy needs to be RE-thought!

:headbang:
rocknation

[karynnj]

19. The Gallup analysis is an extremely shoddy piece of work

where they had to completely distort the data to make the claim.

First of all, they are looking at relative support in the two groups. Also the 20 year trend is really just FOUR elections and in them:

You had:
2 winners with more % college then % high school - Dukakis and Clinton (19 vs 16).
1 winner with equal % - Kerry (maybe he wasn't so elitist after all - although looking just at Dec 2003 could be deceptive)
1 winner with more % high school only - Al Gore, a sitting VP

I could more easily take this as a 20 year trend that except for incumbent Presidents or their VPs, the candidate who gets less college educated support NEVER wins. Instead, I prefer to say that there is no clear cut pattern and this is a shoddy piece of analysis.

[loudsue]

43. Gallup's analysis should show their own prejudice in their "polling"

It makes me question the way their polls are skewed toward republicans. Pollsters are supposed to be neutral, but as with so many of the polling companies, it is obvious they have their own bias, and they're all part of the republican revolving money machine.

:kick:

[karynnj]

44. Here, I don't know (or think) the polling was skewed

It was just that the commentary they wrote was not really supported by the data.

I also think that the way that they get results that seem skewed is mostly by biasing the questions and including only the results that back their desired point of view.

An example of this in NJ is that today, there is a second poll saying that people think Senator Lautenberg is too old to run. The poll that said this a month or two ago, also showed that if you went to the detailked results that when matched against Generic Republican or any actual Republicans - he won easily.

So, who is helped by this - most likely the Republicans. I saw Lautenberg at a Democratic event in 2006 in support of Menendez. He was extremely good connecting with the crowd. Someone in the group mentioned that their family, like his, came from Patterson. The Senator then spoke of how growing up in Patterson, the son of a man who worked in Patterson's silk mills, made his see some issues very clearly. He spoke of how his dad spoke of the air in those mills and how bad it was for the workers and how he wanted his son to go to college to avoid that.

Here, the question, which includes Lautenberg's age, likes puts all the people who would really be "I don't even know who my Seantor's are" into "83 is very old" responses against him. In addition, any conservative Democrat might also answer that way, plus all the Republicans.

Polls of this type bother me because they are inherently dishonest. They ask do you want (this real human) or anybody else eligible. To then interpret the results as that person having only that level of support is ridiculous.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

25. How many professors do you know...Greenworld.

:rofl:

[AnotherGreenWorld]

27. I know quite a few. And I am one.

[madfloridian]

30. Gotcha...

:rofl:

[Eurobabe]

26. But I thought King George was educated elite with his 'HAVAD MBA' and all?

That's what KKKarl said.

:sarcasm:

[tridim]

35. And Bush himself said the "elite" was his "base"

This is all so : :eyes: : worthy.

[AX10]

29. What the HELL is so bad about education?

:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf:v

Another thing I am tired of is the bashing/hate of the educated and those who think for themselves!
:wtf: is wrong with these sheeple?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[killbotfactory]

34. Oh my, I didn't go through college

I guess I have to renounce my support of Obama and back Clinton or Edwards now. :eyes:

[GeorgeGist]

37. God forbid the unwashed masses ...

would consider someone more educated that them. :sarcasm:

[madfloridian]

38. "the educated don't pick them"....a view from a blogger

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/8/16/204920/175

I see this as a tactic we need to fight. It appears some see it as pretty much true.

Saying someone lost or will lose because they are/were supported by a lot of educated people...is just not true. It is spinning. It take no other factors into consideration.

The poll was just as demeaning to Hillary as to the rest of us. It is just stupid stuff.

[Rottenmac]

39. How about this...

Anytime someone bring it up, mention that Bush went to YALE. Seems that that would make him 'educated elite' (well... elite anyhow.)

Throw it right back at them, and watch them fumble.

[Demeter]

41. Yeah, Bush Went to Yale and Harvard, On Paper

but it didn't take....

[Dragonbreathp9d]

42. Fuck the intelligent! Morans rule!

wtf

[Time for change]

45. They have no choice

Most if not all Bush supporters, and the supporters of most Republican candidates for president are either stupid or greedy or both. They have nothing else to run on, so why not try to make education into a liability?

[madfloridian]

46. And yet another article using almost the same words....

It's a pretty decent article, but this guy is using talking points.

http://campaignsandelections.com/NH/articles/?ID=406

"Andy Smith, director of the University of New Hampshire Survey Center, said he thinks Obama is consciously targeting his campaign to reach intellectual and highly educated voters. "I think there is a sense that the Clinton organization is stronger in the blue collar sector of the state," he said. "You have to kind to pick battles."

Cherlin said he disagreed with this take on the campaign, adding "it's not about the demographic of the voters; it's about interest and expertise."

Whether the campaign planned to target educated Democratic voters, Obama has gained a lot of support from that demographic. In a recent CNN/WMUR poll, 56 percent of Obama supporters had a college or post-graduate degree. That is compared with U.S. Census data that showed 30 percent of New Hampshire residents hold a college degree.

Smith said that people who have higher degrees or are considered to be in the state's "political elite or social elite," usually have a more idealistic view of politics and "they tend to have a romantic attachment to a campaign." He mentioned former presidential candidates Gary Hart, Howard Dean and former President Bill Clinton as examples.


Smith said that the split amongst blue collar Democrats, who typically live in the Manchester area, and more well-educated Democrats, who tend to live in the Seacoast area, is a common one and the candidate who appeals to the more traditional, working-class kind of Democrat usually fares better in the New Hampshire primary."

This is silly.

And a great picture at the site.

[PatSeg]

47. Bill Maher did a bit on the perception of the Elite

I can't remember exactly what he said, but it really hit home. The dictionary describes elite as "The best or most skilled members of a group". When choosing a doctor, a lawyer, or even a mechanic, you would obviously WANT the "best or most skilled member of a group", but when we pick a president, we'll look for average???

The president shouldn't be your buddy and pal. He/she should be better, smarter, and more experienced. I don't want to have a beer the president. I want to be able to live my life knowing that a competent, qualified person is running the country, doing the things I can't do, just as I want my mechanic to be able to fix my car and my surgeon to be able to make the right call. I don't want or need to hang out with them!

[Spinzonner]

49. Look where ignorance and stupidity has gotten the country

[madfloridian]

51. This article says educated supporters will actually hurt him.

http://www.nypress.com/blogx/display_blog.cfm?bid=72091417

Education & Victory Do Not Always Mix
Though he has the most appeal among Democrats with an advanced education, that doesn't mean Barack Obama can win his party's nomination. In fact, it might actually hurt his chances.

A new Gallup Poll shows that while Hillary Clinton leads Obama by a wide margin in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination she is virtually tied with the Illinois senator among college grads. Because of that Obama has been able to match Clinton in the money race, since those college grads would tend to be among the wealthier donors.

Having such highly educated support within the Democratic ranks doesn't mean victory. In fact, other than Al Gore, the Democratic primary candidates that led among that voter group were all soundly defeated without hitting the general election circuit. And the only candidate who had more appeal among the educated than other voters to ever make it out of the primary is Michael Dukakis in 1988. And we know how that worked out."

[Colobo]

52. What a ridiculous claim.

[madfloridian]

53. It's stupid, but they did it to us in 04.

They don't care if it is stupid. It reaches the ones who think educated people are to be shunned....and it works.

The word "elite" stayed in connection with Dean supporters. It is often used here to show us out of the mainstream.

It is totally stupid.

[PatSeg]

55. These are the same people who made "liberal" a dirty word

and gullible people bought it not knowing why. It is all cheesy PR, the republicans specialty.

[zulchzulu]

54. The "educated" actually vote...

..and we ain't stinkin' elites either.

[democratsin08]

56. lol

obama sure isnt part of the educated elite, thats for sure.

[rasputin1952]

57. I guess this actually means that those who support R's are

essentially "the uneducated masses"; the "ignorant that haven't a clue"; the "boneheads of the nation"?

And the R's nominees are not the "educated elite"? bush went to a fine university, problem is, being a "legacy" trumps stupidity...pay the bills, and you get a degree...you'd think Yale would cut this guy adrift. How come we never got to see his transcripts that show he got his "Gentleman's C"? GPA 2.0, (maybe), and a Masters was in the offing? How could he get a Master's in Business Administration w/a 2.0 GPA? He must have only shown up for "Executive Pay and Bonuses" classes.

I'd rather go w/the honestly educated, than the sublimely stupid.

[LWolf]

59. Am I misreading this, or is this a concrete illustration

of exactly why anti-intellectual propaganda has been used so effectively to de-value education in the general population, while demonizing public ed and instituting draconian policies designed to do away with thinking and higher levels of comprehension?

Keep the population barely literate, convince them that use of the intellect is of no value, and train them to obediently repeat what they hear, and bubble their ballots the way they are told.

Train them not to question.

[madfloridian]

61. Put down the educated by use of the word "elite"...

I sort of think about it like that saying that most people think of themselves in the top income bracket and don't want to have the taxes messed with.

Most people think they are pretty smart overall, and the use of the word "elite" is geared to give the impression that this nonexistent "group" is going to think they are more important.

Yes, it is a good example of anti-intellectualism.

Here's another...senior year a guy came up to me and said he thought I was very pretty and nice and that he thought about asking me to the prom. But he said I was too smart. Funny thing about that...he went on to get a masters' degree. I reminded him of that statement once a few years ago...he doesn't believe he said it.

It's been working for years.

[goodgd_yall]

60. The same tactic used against Adlai Stevenson

or so I've read. I think Eugene McCarthy also was considered to intellectual too. We've lost some good potential leaders from this "don't appear too much of a thinker" tradition in American politics.

[Nedsdag]

62. Every time one of the so-called elitist candidates lose

in the primaries, the eventual winner (Humphrey, Mondale, Gore, and Kerry) went on to lose (OK, Gore lost in the Electoral vote count) in the GE.

It may happen again.

[madfloridian]

63. Aww...

Sweet picture from Ybor City Stogie.

Dean's Educated Elite



Howard Dean's Educated Elite