Edwards backs mandatory preventive care ("You have to go in and be checked...make sure you are ok")

[jefferson_dem]

Edwards backs mandatory preventive care
By AMY LORENTZEN, Associated Press Writer
Sun Sep 2, 6:30 PM ET

Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards said on Sunday that his universal health care proposal would require that Americans go to the doctor for preventive care.

"It requires that everybody be covered. It requires that everybody get preventive care," he told a crowd sitting in lawn chairs in front of the Cedar County Courthouse. "If you are going to be in the system, you can't choose not to go to the doctor for 20 years. You have to go in and be checked and make sure that you are OK."

He noted, for example, that women would be required to have regular mammograms in an effort to find and treat "the first trace of problem." Edwards and his wife, Elizabeth, announced earlier this year that her breast cancer had returned and spread.

Edwards said his mandatory health care plan would cover preventive, chronic and long-term health care. The plan would include mental health care as well as dental and vision coverage for all Americans.

<SNIP>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070902/ap_on_el_pr/edwards_2

[Mojorabbit]

1. What if someone skips

a "mandatory" test. Is there a penalty?

[jefferson_dem]

6. I don't fucking know...

but the idea of mandatory anything, especially things "body-related", really creeps me out.

[AZBlue]

48. It's part of having the best and most affordable and comprehensive health care for EVERYONE.

[Crunchy Frog]

44. Then you've made the choice to crawl off and die if you get something serious.

Either that, or maybe a group of heavies from the government will come to your house and drag you kicking and screaming to the doctors office.

[bpeale]

80. probably...

they won't pay for visits to the emergency room if you have not reported for at least an annual physical. and that's fair.

[wordpix]

83. give Obama a break---he wants health care for all & so do I---what do YOU want?

Geez, the man is proposing you go to a doctor for preventive care regularly---that's cause to flame him?

[CTyankee]

93. There is a penalty now if you skip Medicare Part B and go w/o coverage,

then try to sign up later (when you are in worse shape). You will pay a higher monthly rate. If you maintain coverage through another plan, and then sign up later, you are not penalized. I am doing this now since I have my husband's employer policy for which I pay $74 per month, and I also get dental and prescription coverage. That will change when my husband retires, however.

Medicare just doesn't want to have to bear the cost of some people's irresponsibility. This way, if you are irresponsible (and really stupid IMHO)you pay extra for the privilege of being so!

[SOS]

131. There is no "mandatory" anything.

Today's Edwards attack-fest is based on total misinformation and outright bullshit. ("government doctors")

If people would spend a few minutes reviewing Edwards health care PDF on his site, they would be familair with the Health Markets concept.
Within this concept, the Markets would offer at least one government option, essentially Medicare for all.
People could choose from private and public options.

In the OP we read: "If you're going to be in the system...."

If you opt for the government "Medicare for All" option (lower cost, more benefits) then you will be required to visit your doctor once a year. This will save lives and lower costs in the long-term.(Stalinism!!! LOL.)

If someone feels this reeks of totalitarianism, then they are free to buy their insurance elsewhere and visit their doctor every 20 years.

------------------------

(Maybe this phony tempest in a tea pot is designed to sidetrack us from Edwards' endorsement today by the Steel Workers and the Mine Workers?)

[fed-up]

2. and what if I don't want my tiny titties smooshed and zapped w/radiation???

are they going to "require" vaccinations?

with they mandate treatment???


so, sorry, this is a little too big mother for me....

[saracat]

7. You can choose not to have government health insurance.No one is forcing anyone to do anything!

You don't have to have health insurance at all if you don't want to.You can also refuse health care and die.Up to you.

[emilyg]

17. quite often refusing health care lets you live.

[saracat]

19. and quite often not having health care lets you die!

It would be nice if we had a choice,Those that don't want to have mandatory doctor visits don't have to buy into this program.No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

[Mojorabbit]

34. baloney

I should be able to have health care and have a say in my treatment. The two are not mutually exclusive.
No one should have to have any treatment they are not comfortable with. I own my body not some insurance provider.

[saracat]

39. How is a "check up " treatment? I just don't understand this.

Now if it were madatory surgery or "treatment, even mandatory pill taking, I might agree but a check up?

[AnotherGreenWorld]

62. Unfortunately, your point is well taken.

[AX10]

3. Go to HELL John!

What if someone misses their "mandatory" check-up? :eyes:
He's a little kookie for my tastes. He also should dump his SUV before telling others to do so.
Hard line Socialism bad enough, but Edwards is worse than that. For the record, I believe that unregulated capitalism is just as bad.

John, dump your mansion and SUV and $400 haircuts before preaching to us! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Stalinesque jackass!

[saracat]

13. Someone who misses their "mandatory checkup"may lose a chance to catch cancer early! !

But you wouldn't care about that now would you?

[AX10]

87. It's there choice if they want to go.

I believe these check ups should be readily available, but not mandated by law.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

64. Good post, AX10.

[CTyankee]

94. Before you explode with anger, I suggest you see my post about

penalties already in place with Medicare on this thread and elsewhere. They are financial incentives.

Good Lord, you'd think all those folks in Europe and elsewhere are totally ripped about their Socialized Medicine (eek)!

Right! We've now got boatloads of Swedes, French, Danes, etc. all fighting to get into our country to get some of our good old "each one for themselves" health care! Uh, huh...

:rofl: :rofl:

[ChiciB1]

111. Ever Had A Family Member Die Of Cancer?? I've Had THREE Of Mine Die

and truly feel had they gotten checked earlier, they very well could have lived a lot longer or even had a remission. There have been many advances in medical care and I just watched a show where a woman was diagnosed with one disease only to find out that in the last five years a doctor whose name is Habba found that your gall bladder is linked to MS! It's called Habba Syndrome, after his name, so getting checked on a regular basis COULD save YOUR life or at least make your pain bearable with medication!!

I would say more to you, but I'm not going to lower myself!!!!

[avrdream]

115. Ummm, it's linked to IBS, a completely different disease than MS.

See: www.habbasyndrome.com

But I agree with your point otherwise. My mom had abnormal vaginal bleeding for 3 years and no health insurance coverage. She didn't get checked out until it was too late and by then it had become a metastatic brain tumor.

[ChiciB1]

132. YES! I Got It Mixed Up... There Were Two Different Cases I Watched

that night! It was the other woman who ended up having MS! I remember now, but thanks for the agreement. I TRY to keep up with this stuff and find it fascinating! I'm sure you know the program I'm referring to, Mystery Diagnosis!

But IBS IS the one that was connected to HabbaSyndrome!

Thanks again... I stand corrected and am glad you caught my mistake.

[ChiciB1]

133. Also, Sorry About Your Mother... My Mother Died Of Cancer Too...

Perhaps had she gone earlier something could have been done.

[venable]

136. misinformed post of the decade?

the above is my nomination.

the question is do people want to listen to what he says, or do they want to slime him about SUVs that he doesn't drive, haircuts that mean less than zero.

It's a choice about what kind of politics you want to reign in your nation. I choose to ignore the ignorant, and, instead, to listen to this perfectly wise, populist, intelligent, well-intentioned set of ideas. I embrace them wholeheartedly, and I am not a Stalinist.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. This Sounds Creepy And Unworkable

I can see mandatory checks and vaccines for minors - but I don't see how this is workable for adults.

[fed-up]

5. not even for minors-what? a new way for the state to snatch kids?-NO F*ing way nt

[AX10]

8. Agreed!

[saracat]

9. Lots of checkups are mandatory for kids.Schools won't take them otherwise.

[Nutmegger]

10. Stop that!

Your facts get in the way of the Edwards hating!

[MonkeyFunk]

12. childhood vaccines

are a public health issue.

If somebody has untreated tuberculosis or typhoid, then yes, the law currently allows health officials to hold and treat that person.

That's a far cry from what Edwards proposed, which is both unworkable and would be incredibly unpopular.

[saracat]

15. Incredibly unpopular? With whom? Those with no insurance would rather have

none than a doctors visit? How stupid it that? We have to pay $600 a month for insurance and I have a condition that requires me to fly across country 4 tgimes a year and those expenses are not picked up by anyone.I would be thrilled with a lesser rate of insurance and wouldn't mind the doctors visit in the least.People should have yearly checkups for early detection illness.Elizabeth Edwards might have been saved if she had gone to that doctors visit. I am past due for a mammogram and other stuff. If I had to go, it might have been done by now.

[MonkeyFunk]

55. I think telling Americans they HAVE to go to a doctor

when they don't wish to would be incredibly unpopular.

[fed-up]

27. her statement is NOT a fact...nt

[fed-up]

25. NOT true-parents can opt their kids out of "mandatory" vaccines-especially the one that can trigger

MS like symptoms-the hepatitis one they give to kids in junior high school-with MS in the family I chose not to risk the vaccine


and ask me about my mom's mom that died when they put air in her veins

ask me about how they sent my mom home from Kaiser when she was having a TIA (they totally missed that the numbness in her fingers, along with her high blood pressure, her new diabetes, and overweight) which then was followed by a massive stroke 3 days later

ask me about my friend that was prescribed the wrong blood pressure meds and almost died

ask me about another friend that was sent home after surgery too early and almost died from massive internal bleeding

ask me about how I was diagnosed w/depression when it was food allerigies/sensitivity causing my fatigue, loss of hair, heartburn etc

ask me about how I had to fight to get our women/s clinic to do a simple anemia test when I went in with major fatigue/irritabilty complaints-turned out I was one tenth of a point from being hospitalized for anemia-luckily I am stubborn and a fighter and kept insisting something was wrong and that it was not peri-menopause

ask me about how they totally missed my mom's lung cancer until 10 days before she died-I had asked at least 7 doctors at Kaiser what her changing segmented neutrophil count meant-I was told I was anal

ask me about my brother's Gulf War Syndrome

ask me about being a DES daughter

ask me about the misdiagnosis of my sister's MS (they told her she "read too much")




I will go to the doctor when I want and for what I want

I willl retain my right to determine what course of treatment I want to follow, including "natural methods"

[jefferson_dem]

35. Thanks.

I appreciate your perspective.

[saracat]

38. And you retain your right to pay for them! I am a DES baby to whose

mother died of breast cancer. I have very similar stories to tell. But medicine has to be a cooperative effort.If you do not want any stipulations, then don't have any health insurance.You know better than most that the current system stipulates a lot more than a required doctor visit.The best insurance my husband and I ever had required a "wellness visit" each year.I have no problem with that.Many people would be pleased to have the opportunity for such a visit.Now they have nothing.

[AdHocSolver]

58. It sounds like the docs were not wanting to treat these people because they did not believe...

that they would get paid for it. Incompetent medical diagnosis and treatment is another issue beyond health insurance. However, one reason we have poor medical practice is because the doctors and hospitals are constantly taking into account whether they will be paid for what they do.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

65. Excellent post.

Sorry to hear about your misfortunes though. :(

[CTyankee]

100. A lot of Italians evidently choose their own methods. When I was there recently,

our guide told us about Italian pharmacies, how they operate a bit like a dr. office and offer lots of natural remedies as well. So I think for people like yourself, you would be better served to choose the natural route to health care.

Of course, you would pay for it, in addition to paying the taxes to support universal health care (if we do get it) for others since none of us gets to pick and choose which taxes to pay and which not too (I don't like paying for this damn Iraq war, for instance!).

[PatSeg]

124. I could add to your list but you made my point very well

AND my children did not have mandatory vaccines. I was appalled at the time that the government could force me to have a substance injected into my children's bodies and make me sign a waiver where I was responsible for any repercussions!

I don't tend to be a "one issue" voter, but this one could change that!

[ChiciB1]

106. I Can Remember When I Was Younger... We Were Automatically Given The

required medical shots for FREE in school!! It was a very good program and EVERYONE got treated! My own mother put off getting a check up for many months, maybe if she would have done something she wouldn't have died of cancer at a relatively early age of 67!!

My father was a Sgt/Major in the Army a put off getting checked and had a massive heart attack... he lived through it, but later had a stroke!

While I don't run to the doctor for every little thing, or feel I'm hypochondriacal, if something seems strange I don't walk, I RUN to get it checked. With all the chemicals and pollution around, you can NEVER be TOO SAFE! Both of my parents are gone and I wonder if they had taken steps earlier if they wouldn't have still been here.

My husband had some complaints and after seeing the doctor had to have a colonoscopy, they found SIX polyps and removed them, and he had to have two more follow-up colonoscopies before they said he could wait another 5 years for the next one. Cancer DOES kill and prevention SAVES!

[ChiciB1]

107. OOPS, Forgot To Say My Father Was A Medic! n/t

[rwheeler31]

11. Good idea. This would save save lives and $ .

Private health plans call and tell you your meds will stopped unless you come in for a check up. Why is this bad?

[depakid]

14. What would you bet that the AP reporter is taking this out of context?

There's more to the story- and Ms. Lorentzen knows it.

(She gave herself away by throwing in that gratuitous slap about SUV's- which was also taken out of contest).

[1932]

18. given MSM track record, I'd bet the farm. I would expect more from the internet discussion groups,

especially when they call themselves 'Democratic', but I guess that's naive.

[Cameron27]

22. He said the same thing during the Armstrong cancer forum.

There was a thread running here at the time, and that was the first time I'd ever heard that was part of his plan.

[1932]

26. So, was it contextualized accurately then?

I suspect the contextualization becomes more divorced with reality the better Edwards does in the the polls.

[Cameron27]

33. He said that his plan included "mandated check-ups"

I know, because I had to ask someone if I heard it right...and I did. That's as far as it went; he didn't provide any context with the remark.

[1932]

36. Who didn't provide context? Edwards or the person you talked to?

[Cameron27]

42. Edwards

That's all he said.

[1932]

49. Which leaves a lot of room for other people to spin it, eh?

[Cameron27]

63. That's very possible, and I hope that's the case.

[Cameron27]

161. I found the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9SgIwzumB4&mode=related&search=

His quote comes at 1:28 right after we mandate preventative care.

[Pirate Smile]

47. I remember hearing him saying something to this effect in the Armstrong Cancer forum

and thinking "oh, no, that's not good, no way in hell".

I can't even recall the exact statement but I remember noticing the implications of it as being a mandate on the American people and knowing that it will be used against John either in the primaries/caucuses or the General AND that I didn't think it was a good idea at all.

I like the way the British system did it (at least from what I saw in Sicko) by rewarding the Doctors for their ability get their patients to do more preventive care and healthy living. The Doctor said he got a bonus for the patients he was able to get to stop smoking. That idea I like.

edit to add - It wasn't a mandate of having health insurance, it was a mandate of a check-up or something like that. Requiring everyone have insurance or providing them with it is fine with me. This was different.

[Catchawave]

78. Probably why Fox News picked it up ?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295555,00.html

[saracat]

24. I don't understand it either. my doctor won't refill my prescriptions

till I come in for a visit.What world are some living in?

[Cameron27]

28. Of course you have to go for a re-visit

before you can refill some prescriptions. You're getting them for a medical condition, and the MD can lose his license if he doesn't do a follow-up in most cases.

That's not the same thing as mandatory checkups for everyone whether they're already in treatment for a medical problem or not.

[CTyankee]

98. How do we know that Edwards meant what you said about drs and prescriptions

when he said "mandatory"? Actually , has anyone seen a word on what exactly he meant?

Some people go nuts before they even know what is really being talked about!!!

[Cameron27]

144. What do you think "mandatory checkups" mean?

He hasn't taken the time to explain it himself, or else I've missed it, but mandatory means you "have to." Why would he have emphasized this part of his plan in the media, and during the cancer forum, if he's talking about the same regulations we've already got for prescriptions?

I'm voicing my objections to what he's said, and what's implied by his broad comments. If he's talking about narrowly defined mandates that target specific medical problems, then he'd better spell it out, and I'll reassess my opinion.

[fed-up]

30. many prescriptions have side-effects-there is a reason for doing those check-ups nt

[saracat]

41. According to you I should have the right to refuse to go. I don't like blood tests.

I don't like someone drawing my blood .It is invasive to my privacy. I guess I should just die instead.That is your reasoning!

[AnotherGreenWorld]

66. I have been on a shitload of serious drugs.

I have never had a doctor tell me anything about side-effects, and when asked, they deny them. Doctors don't give a shit about you. They want money. That's all. Yes, there is such a thing as a competent, caring doctor. But it's rare and becoming rarer.

We are doomed to have bad health care in this country. Even on Kucinich's plan, we would still have a medical profession dominated by careless, incompetent doctors.

I wish Edwards would talk about doing something about medical malpractice. That is, after all, how he earned his fortune. Why not use it to his advantage? Why let them call him a trial lawyer as if it's a pejorative?

[Mojorabbit]

37. You are kidding right? n/t

[AzDar]

16. I'm a J. E. supporter... but, uh, NO.

Jeebus.

[saracat]

21. Heath care already has certain stipulations on it.I would rather see a doctor than have them make me

wait for treatment for preexisting conditions! I don't understand why somwe think this is a big deal.We s uised to have an HMO that required annual physicals. So what.It isn't as though it harms you.It could save you.In any event , you don't have to have this type of insurance.Simply don't opt in!

[Crunchy Frog]

23. So, either you do things EXACTLY the way they want you to

or you get no care at all, and can just crawl off and die if you get something serious? This sounds unnecessarily coercive and authoritarian to me. Is this the way it works in other countries with universal health care?

[saracat]

32. So if your cancer s could have been caught with a simple doctor visit and you

refuse to go and the whine about how they can't cure you because it was caught too late , am I supposed to feel sorry for you? As sorry as the person that tried to make sure they something could be caught early and just got something that couldn't be stopped? My mother died of breast cancer and she went for her visits and it was missed but at least she went.And I do question if you refuse to do anything for yourself if you should be treated in the same manner as someone who tried. The one who tried at the very least is going to have a better shot at being healthy.Medical care is a cooperative effort and the patient has to be willing to do their part.A patient that won't go for a doctors visit isn't cooperating. Like I said, you don't have to buy into this program.You can get private insurance, and they have restrictions to, or you can do without and pay as you go.Those are all choices. Many today would love to be able to have those annual visits but they just can't afford them.And yet some do not want to have them at all.Unfriggin believable!

[Cameron27]

40. People aren't babies saracat,

and to a certain degree, we each get to weigh the risks we want to take with our lives. All the medical field can do is educate about healthy choices, not dictate and I'd never want to give the government more authority than that.

[saracat]

43. Who is giving the government the right to do anything.If that is the program they pass

you don't have to sign up for it. Medicare is much worse.I have family members that doctors won't even treat .They refuse to take medicare or medicaid.They would be thrilled to be able to have annual visits!

[Cameron27]

46. If you want to be included in Edwards'

health plan, he's giving the government the right to call for mandatory check-ups ... healthy, sick, young or old, no one has a choice. Either that, or pay through the nose with private insurers.

No choice either way.

[saracat]

138. So what! More of a choice than we have now!

[Cameron27]

145. If you don't mind it, that's fine,

I don't like politicians getting in the middle of my healthcare. There's no choice if you don't have the money for private insurance, so you'll be forced to follow Edwards' rules.

Right now I still have a choice NOT to vote for him in the primary, if he's elected, it's his "mandates" or keep paying $$$. I'll stick with Obama, Clinton, or Kucinich.

[saracat]

139. So what! More of a choice than we have now!

[AnotherGreenWorld]

67. Edwards plan is well-intentioned.

But ignoring the other problems, this would create a need for even more doctors. And we need less--not more--doctors. I would rather wait three months to see a qualified, caring doctor than the next day see an incompetent dickhead who went to a third tier toilet medical school. Why not just go to your garbage man? The results will pretty much be the same. But you're less likely to be killed or have your life ruined.

Your mom went to her visits. Her breast cancer went undetected. How sad, and sadly it's not an exception. It happens far too often. And it's unacceptable.

[saracat]

109. My mother's case was identical to Elizabeth Edwards.

They caught the breast cancer but didn't notice it metastasized during the cancer follow ups.She had lived 3 years cancer free and thought she would beat it. She was 52.And my mother, I am sure ,like EE , had very good doctors.Medicine is actually an art more than a science and doctors do not know everything.We have some very good doctors in this country and we have some not so qualified.We also have a lot a foreign docs with questionable credentials.I think we need more qualified docs who are trained in this country.I am very proud that my governor has established( finally ) a state of the art medical school in our state.

[CTyankee]

95. "crawl off and die" ??? Honestly, do you really think this is the

way universal health care in other countries operates? Don't you think those people would never put up with what you describe?

Please calm down and try to think rationally.

[Crunchy Frog]

121. No, I do not think that's the way universal healthcare operates in other countries.

I was responding to the poster, who suggested that anyone who didn't want to get mandatory checkups could just "opt out". What exactly does "opt out" mean? It sounds like it means that you can go without coverage, and therefore without treatment when you need it.

I was responding to what that particular poster seemed to be advocating, not to the idea of universal healthcare. Does the element of coercion being advocated in this thread exist in countries with universal healthcare? I'm genuinely curious about that.

[CTyankee]

123. Good question. You really can't "opt out" of paying for your health care

even if you don't use it, in a universal health coverage system because people can't pick and choose the taxes they will pay. Under the current system you can certainly "opt out" of medical coverage; you just don't pay for it, altho some employers require you to show that you have another health care plan to "opt out" of theirs.

My point was that it is ridiculous to think that people will be yanked bodily out of their homes and carted off to a dr.s office. "Mandatory" could mean lots of things, but I don't think that's it. Any kind of universal health care program will require an extensive public education effort. Medicare had no trouble getting off the ground in the 60s, despite RW attempts to undermine it.

As to other countries with univeral health care, I have never heard of coercion being used. It's a good question that I have NEVER heard mentioned.

I think John Edwards mis-spoke. He needs a better word than "mandatory." In a universal health care system, you can't penalize people by cutting off their health care: that gets you nowhere in terms of a public health policy.

I'm sure JE will have a better way of describing his plan in short order!

[Crunchy Frog]

125. Partial answer to my question from an Australian poster.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3494008&mesg_id=3495010

It appears that it is not necessary to make things mandatory in order to have a workable universal healthcare system. I think this whole discussion may just be reflective of an authoritarian streak in our national character. We don't think something should be "free" unless there's an element of coercion to it.

[CTyankee]

130. Of course. In a free society, you can't have "mandatory" health care.

It doesn't make any sense. Your Aussie poster is absolutely right. People are gonna use it if it is universal; that is what the Republicans are afraid of!! That is why they are ENJOYING reading this hysterical overreaction on DU! They'll be quoting US and saying "Nah, nah, I told you so!"

Which is why I say, everybody should quiet down. JE has certainly heard our point of view loud and clear. He will change his speech accordingly.

Please, folks, no more fodder for the RW slime machine!!

[Cameron27]

20. No, no, no

I want socialized medicine, I want single-payer, but I'll decide when I need a medical check-up. I'm afraid it's mandates like this that will turn the country away from universal healthcare.

[penguin7]

29. Do not hold Edwards responsible on this one

he has probably changed his mind by now.

[Cameron27]

31. I hope Kucinich calls him out on this,

I think he can do serious damage to the budding movement towards universal healthcare.

[depakid]

54. Edwards' plan is NOT univeral healthcare- and neither is Obama's

If check ups are mandatory- it'll be due to the insurers who run the plans (including the government plan- which under the Edwards/Hacker proposal is destined to fail anyway).

[Bongo Prophet]

45. Maybe a clarification from Edwards would be in order. I heard he requires hybrids too.

I'd hate to jump to any conclusions.
That would be childish.

AP and yahoo are always accurate...worth confirming, along with the SUV stuff.
Gosh, who spreads this stuff. Does he just try to look bad, you think?


---------------------
But if it is accurate?--

No way mandatory visits would pass with voters, it could KILL his campaign instantly.
Of course congress has to pass it.
And what would the courts say?

And hey, piss tests for everyone.
no thanks.
--------------


Thanks to J_dem, you make Obama proud by alerting us to that JE's wascally ways.

Some of this was real and some sarcasm.
Hard to tell these days.:hi:

[jsamuel]

50. from what I understand, research shows that only mandated preventative care makes the biggest

impact on the health of a population

[1932]

51. If the price of free health care is going in to chat with a doctor about my health every once in a

while, I'd be OK with it.

What would you do to stop paying your outrageous co-pays, or to be guaranteed timely access to a doctor?

[Mojorabbit]

77. As soon as you make it mandatory

you change the nature of the doctor patient relationship. The doctor is getting orders from the insurance provider and you are not there of your free will. Once this change in relationship is accomplished with the provider in charge they make the rules about what will be tested. Your doc is no longer in charge of what care he gives.

It is that way to a degree with the system we have now and it sucks. Next perhaps the insurance companies may want to check out your genes to see if you have a trait that may lead to illness statistically in the future. You can bet eventially your info will be out there along with your credit info for potential employers. Next it would be nice if everyone had drug testing(for their own good of course so they could get treatment). This info also will end up getting out.
It is a slippery slope.

The responsibility of your health care should be between you and your doc.
It is bad enough now that insurance providers stick their fingers in everything. The last thing they need it the power to make the rules on your health care. I am saying this as a retired nurse.

[1932]

81. This has nothing to do with forcing treatment. It sounds like you just have to show up.

And if the price of free care is to have to appear in a doctor's office and have the choice of being honest and cooperative so that society can possibly treat potentially expensive problems when they're cheapest treat then I'll put this in the category of being asked to wear a seatbelt.

[Mojorabbit]

85. Who decides what tests

are to be given? The insurance providers? No thanks. Where does it say you just have to show up. If the companies give the docs a list of tests to do, do you have to accept them all? What if your doc thinks other tests are more relavent to your case?
Will the providers ask for more tests so they can make more money or else will they tell the docs to scimp on tests so they will save money. What are their incentives when they are deciding for your doctor what tests you need.

My hubby who is a family physician had a big blowout with a major carrier when they started telling him how to medically treat his patients. They wanted to give him a big bonus for saving them money which meant not doing the testing or giving the care that he thought was best. He told them to get lost and they dropped him till his patients complained and they asked him to come back on his terms. Believe me you do not want providers deciding what tests you need to have. If you are leaving the insurance companies in the equation they are interested in only one thing and that is profit.

[1932]

117. The patiients. You can always refuse treatment.

[Mojorabbit]

118. And how long do you think that will last

under this plan. If they are trying to catch things early and get people to have treatment, will you lose your coverage if you do not want the treatment?

[1932]

135. Honestly, I think it's obvious that people will be happy to go to doctors, get cheap treamtent and

not die young.

Since that's the opposite of what's happening today.

[PatSeg]

126. And suppose you go in for your mandatory checkup

and find out you have high cholesterol. Can the government force you to take medication with potentially harmful side effects or lose your coverage?

[Colobo]

52. That's why Obama's plan is better- you are not forced to do anything.

You get the plan if you want, and you go to the doc when you need to.

[FrenchieCat]

53. Mandatory?

Why is it that I dislike that word.....a lot? :shrug:

[ArkySue]

57. Sounds too close to W's plan

Remember the mandatory "New Freedom Mental Health Program" where the Gub'ment would screen everyone for "mental illness?" how Stalinesque.

[PatSeg]

157. The upside of that program is they could start with HIM!!!

Guess he wasn't thinking, no wait, he never thinks!

[Donnachaidh]

56. nice spin job by an Obama supporter

Yeah, when all else FAILS let's stir up the FEAR shit pot. Pretty sad when you have to go so low as to scare people who aren't paying attention.

Kinda repuke-like, ain't it? :puke:

[Egnever]

59. is it what he said or isnt it?

is it what his plan calls for or isnt it? If it is then how is it spin? If it isnt well then I am with you.

[jefferson_dem]

74. So pasting in text (verbatim) from an AP story, including an exact quote by Edwards...

himeself is a 'spin job'? Bullshit "blame the messenger" deflection.

I think the real spin is being delivered by the Edwards fans as they try to present this one in a favorable light.

[GreenArrow]

79. "I think the real spin...

is being delivered by the Edwards fans as they try to present this one in a favorable light".

Yep, that's their specialty, and Edwards provides them with lots and lots of opportunities for practice.

[Superman Returns]

60. oh great

just when we are making head way with Americans on the need to have universal healthcare, Johnny come lately tries to one up Stalin.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

68. haha

[JDPriestly]

61. I'm a strong Edwards supporter, but he needs to rethink his

absolute language on this. I'm not sure it would comply with the Constitution to require people to have health insurance, but also to require them to take certain tests in order to qualify for the health insurance. That could be viewed as an unreasonable search and seizure without a warrant. Certainly, it would be a violation of a person's right to privacy. People need to have the right to refuse certain medical tests. I, personally, am very uneasy about tests that involve exposing my vital organs to radiation. I have done it when needed, but I am very cautious about it.

On the other hand, some states used to require people to have blood tests (for venereal diseases and for RH factor) back in the days. We had to have them way back when we were married. I have not heard that was ever found to be unconstitutional. It was a terrible intrusion on privacy, but it probably saved lives. Back then, people needed to know what their RH factors were before having children.

[jillan]

69. I worked for a company that made all of its employees go to a mandatory health screening 1x/yr

It was basic - they set it up in a room.

Blood pressure
stress test
body fat index
eye exam
hearing test
and they sponsored smoking cessation groups.

I thought it was the greatest.

I commend Edwards for this.

[saracat]

110. Thank you.That is exactly what he is talking about! Why are people opposed to this?

[jillan]

114. The word mandatory?

People not wanting to get away from their computers long enough to go to the doctor??

[Bluebear]

119. Pretending they're "creeped out" because their candidate didn't think of it

;)

[PatSeg]

158. Yes the word "mandatory" really sets people off

We live in a diverse country and we all have our own individual views on health care. Some people rely 100% on their doctors to keep them healthy, while others choose to research issues and take personal responsibility for their physical health, using doctors when they feel it is necessary. There will always be those who are self-destructive and make poor life style choices.

We've lived six and half years with an administration that bartered our freedoms for protection, and I'm not about to settle for a Democrat in the White House who will ask me to give up my freedom in exchange for health care. If the democrats want to improve the health of the American people, they should focus on the industries that affect our health: the polluters, the drug companies, the insurance companies, etc. Pass legislation that regulates the companies who are profiting at our expense physically and economically. Then give us choices regarding health care without threats.

The republicans want to legislate what goes on in our bedrooms, eavesdrop on our personal communications, and control our airwaves. We don't need to have our health care choices mandated by a Democrat through fear and intimidation. We need to recoup some of our lost freedoms, not give away more. There are better ways to achieve accessible health care for all than this.

[noamnety]

163. I can tell you why I am opposed to it

I support making it mandatory that insurance covers it.

I absolutely oppose government control of our bodies though.

There are people with PTSD from rape who absolutely will not do a pap smear or rectal exam - it's hugely traumatic for them to the point where they just can't do it, in the same way that people on Fear Factor cannot let themselves be covered in hissing cockroaches - even if they KNOW it's going to cost them $50,000.

The people who can't go through with that sort of thing shouldn't be prevented from getting a broken finger treated.

Also, the government does not have a good track record in providing medical care for certain groups of people in this country - some ethnic groups have a history of being abused by the government in medical experiments without their knowledge. It's completely reasonable and understandable that those people would resent being told it's mandatory to go through any procedure. The government has already proven itself to be racist and untrustworthy, again and again.

People need to be able to decide for themselves when they do or do not want to seek medical care, when they do or do not want to expose various parts of their bodies, when they do or do not want the government logging and recording the contents of their bloodstream, and so on.

[killbotfactory]

70. That sounds a bit intrusive and creepy...

[2rth2pwr]

71. What would happen if I drove to the mandatory

Doctor visits in my SUV?

[smalll]

104. Oooh, you beat me to it -

Don't even THINK about it! There will be regular spot-checks of the parking lots at all Department of Health Corrections facilities, citizen!

[democratsin08]

72. so much for choice

i thought we were the party of "choice".

[robcon]

73. I'll be the one who decides whether I have to see a doctor or not.

My doctor visits are between my doctor and me - butt out, John.

[JTFrog]

75. I believe he is trying to establish

that people need to act responsibly if they want the government to pick up the bill. It's not responsible to forgo going to a doctor for 20 years. Even if you feel healthy as a horse, there are so many things that can be detected early now that it's almost negligent to not engage in some kind of preventative care. HIV, TB, STD's, Hepatitis, Cancer screening. Some of these things can be in your system and contagious for some time before you ever experience symptoms. And these are disease/conditions that can potentially effect other humans, not just the person whining that they don't want to go to the doctor.

Now, as a disclaimer, I don't fully support this plan. I just don't understand how people get so bent about it. My husbands employer makes him get an annual physical. I've had insurance policies that require I get regular exams. I have to look at their provider list and choose one of their doctors. I don't see the difference between the requirements of a company that I have to PAY monthly to cover my health costs or the government who WILL PAY FOR ME. :shrug:

I think DK's HR 676 is the best possible solution to our health care needs. The big question is why won't the other candidates support his plan. I know the answer for at least one of those candidates is MONEY. Cut the insurance companies out and someone might lose their mcmansion. And that is more disgusting than trying to get everyone to go to the damn doctor once a year.

[lligrd]

105. Hey, We Are The Government - It Is OUR Money

and it is my right to decide if I want or need to go to the doctor. And this BS about still allowing private insurance is ridiculous. Why should I pay taxes for universal care and then be forced to buy private insurance just so the government won't force me to see a doctor? I never thought I would say this but if this is part of the platform, there is no way I could support the candidate even if he/she wins the primary.

[lostnfound]

76. OMG. He's my #1 choice but this is a lead balloon.

Force it on people? No way. Even if he's only saying that they kick you out of the system because you don't get checked, I don't think people would be satisfied with that either.

This comment needs some damage control I think.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fed-up]

86. are you on the wrong board?-no need for name calling as we discuss the issue nt

[Colobo]

84. C-Span is reporting it now (Capital News)

This is not good for John.

[karynnj]

88. Could he really mean that it is manatory on the companies to include

preventative care? Not, that people are forced.

Another possibility is he is reacting his own wife's situation. She has spoken of the fact that she felt quilty that she did not have the annual tests that could have caught her cancer earlier. Her comments hit many of us who had been ignoring them because life was busy. In their case, lack of insurance or cost was not the issue.

Maybe something in the middle would even be that the insurance company (or the primary doctor if the plan had one), would put out an annual computer driven mailing of postcards listing the tests you are over due on given age/ sex/ or medical condition. Odd - but I do get something like that for my DOG. Every year, I get a list of tests he needs. (The rabies shots are of course manitory, but things like professionally cleaning his teeth benefit only him. This causes us to call the vet and get them done. For adult health, it really is easy to just push things off - even for decades.

[2rth2pwr]

89. "It requires that everybody get preventive care.....

"It requires that everybody be covered. It requires that everybody get preventive care," he told a crowd sitting in lawn chairs in front of the Cedar County Courthouse. "If you are going to be in the system, you can't choose not to go to the doctor for 20 years. You have to go in and be checked and make sure that you are OK."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070902/ap_on_el_pr/edwards_2

I wonder if it includes mandatory mental health checkups.:scared:

[Colobo]

91. That is just wrong. Nobody should be forced to take care of his/her body.

That's a personal decision.

[karynnj]

97. Your last comment scares me.

Though the mental health tests would be extremely easy to handle. You know which answers go to a label of depression, paranoia etc. If forced to take a test, I think we know how to get a clean bill of health. (At least as long as they don't then use DU posts, where we DO admit concerns that many of us would have labeled tinfoil hat stuff only a decade ago.)

[2rth2pwr]

99. and this plan if adopted

would be in place for future administrations Repug or Dem

[MethuenProgressive]

90. "require","require", "you can't choose not to", "you have to go"

When you're worth millions you aren't required, you can choose not to, and you don't have to go.
I see he hasn't added anything about this latest gaffe to his fan page - maybe he'll retract it by 7PM eastern...

edit: n to m

[MethuenProgressive]

92. To paraphrase: "I MANDATE that you MUST go the Government Doctor!"

:wtf:

[smalll]

96. Is this "mandatory" stuff actually in Edwards' health plan?

Can someone tell us? I suspect that it is not. If it was, for one thing, I think right-wing media (FOX, the WSJ Editorial page, etc.) would have already made a big stink about it, and we would have heard of this before.

If it's not in Edwards' stated health plan, this just means that that the huge-housed gaffmeister with good hair just over-talked himself into another doozy. And about time too. His wife has been doing far more than her fair share of their gaffework recently. It's only right that he gets back on the job.

[Garbo 2004]

149. Actually it's not as far as I can tell. Only an AP story says that.

Local coverage that I could find didn't mention it. Edwards' plan allows people to choose public or private coverage. Regarding preventative care:

Promote Preventive Care: Health Care Markets will offer primary and preventive services at little or no cost. Incentives like lower premiums will reward individuals who schedule free physicals and enroll in healthy living programs. Edwards will also support community efforts to improve health, such as safe streets, walking and biking trails, safe and well-equipped parks, and physical education programs for children. http://johnedwards.com/issues/health-care/health-care-fact-sheet/

[ripple]

101. Wow. So much for his GE chances n/t

[smalll]

102. At this rate,

I wouldn't be surprised if Edwards has to drop out of the race to "spend more time with my house" before Iowa.

("It's still a young house, only a couple of years old, and these are the precious years, but I've been so busy, there are so many rooms I've never even seen. I need to spend some quality time with it, get to know it better, learn how to get around it without a GPS device ...")

[Virginian]

154. Oooo Big house... Wanna get more off topic?

So, is his house worth more than your candidate's house?

Or are you just stirring a boiling pot with a non-issue?

The topic is HEALTH CARE PLAN!!! Can you come up with a good one? Make sure everyone has access to affordable medical care?

[Forkboy]

112. Oh I don't know.His GE numbers are higher than Obama's are.

Which might explain why Obama supporters are whining about him so much lately.

[rodeodance]

103. good

[cobalt1999]

108. Wow. To think just 10 days ago, I thought Edwards was doing a great job in this campaign.

Then the SUV statement and now this statement. WTF is he thinking? Even if you have good intentions, you NEVER take people's choices away...EVER. In fact, you don't even say anything that can be construed as taking away an individuals personal choice whether that's to drive an SUV or go to a doctor.

Personally, unless a limb is about to fall off, I don't go anywhere near doctors. Sure, if I get hit by a bus, I want to be in the emergency room, but otherwise, keep me the hell away.

BTW, what will it cost to do annual checkups on 300 million people?

[PatSeg]

127. I smell red tape that will plague us for decades!

This is too creepy for words and totally unworkable. Bad, bad idea.

[Texas_Kat]

113. John Edwards officially jumps the shark

It's over.....

[PatSeg]

129. The independents and undecideds have left the building

and don't think they'll be back.

I think you're right. I don't see how he can recover from this one.

[avrdream]

116. Down here in Australia, there is universal health care.

As a doctor practicing here, I haven't seen ANYTHING mandatory in the system. Some people choose not to receive medical care and do, indeed, go and "crawl off and die" but, for the most part, patients go to their family physicians early, before disease gets too far along.

We can make the system in America work without making check-ups mandatory. Most human beings would get medical care early if it was freely available to them.

[2rth2pwr]

120. Please send an email to

John Edwards and let him know. Thanks

"I'm going to be honest with you -- I don't know a lot about Cuba's healthcare system," Edwards, D-N.C., said at an event in Oskaloosa, Iowa.
"Is it a government-run system?"
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=edwards+cuba+health&btnG=Search+News

He could use a little info.

[PatSeg]

128. Thank you for the sanity!

There will always be people who will do as they're told and those who will make their own choices, at least as long as we are still a "free" country.

[Cameron27]

146. Thanks for the great post,

I'm afraid that Edwards' is going to cost us any enthusiasm for universal health care with this kind of talk.

[PatSeg]

122. The word "mandatory" when directed toward a citizen

totally turns me off. I got a knot in my stomach when I read this!

Don't think for one minute that there aren't health care providers who won't take advantage of this. Many will order a plethora of unnecessary tests to make more money. They already do it.

If any politician wants to throw the word "mandatory" out there, he/she should be directing it towards corporations, not individuals. We've already lost enough individual freedoms with the current administration. I don't expect to lose more with the next one!

The money spent on these mandatory health care initiatives would be better spent educating people about healthy life choices.

[V4Edwards]

134. National health care will PAY for your medical needs if you maintain "wellness"

I have dental insurance. But I hate to go to the dentist. A few years ago I got a BAD toothache. Suddenly going to the dentist didn't scare me as much - because the tooth hurt so bad. I went, got it fixed, and then went to the front to discuss the bill. I owed a LOT of money. But won't the insurance cover some of it, I asked. The answer - no - not one bit. Why? Because I hadn't been to the dentist in 10 years. I paid that very large bill - and then vowed that I would be getting regular dental checkups from now on. And I have - because I know if I don't, I will pay 5 to 10 times more for the dental work and also I don't want to have that awful toothache again.

Re: John Edwards health plan

No one will force you to go to the doctor for a type of check-up that you don't want - such as mammogram, colonoscopy, etc, or even a regular physical. But if at some later time you develop suspicious symptoms - just pay for your treatment out of your own pocket - after that you may change your ways and go in for the procedures. No one is requiring anything. It's all about the payment for the treatment. You will still have all of your choices intact. But universal health coverage is a safety net to catch all who live in America - those who usually drop out of the bottom and never see the inside of a doctor's office. Hey - if you don't want to ever go to the doctor - what do you need insurance for anyway? But for those who do want it but are not in employment where the insurance is a benefit - this will literally be a lifesaver.

Once again - no one will be FORCED to go to the doctor. But if you choose not to go, you might have to pay BIG money later on.

Now, about the "mandatory" part. As part of the plan, it will be mandatory that you maintain wellness through regular checkups and procedures - in order for the plan to PAY for any necessary medical procedures. It's not like someone is going to come to your house, bodily pick you up, and take you to the doctor's office! Nobody cares if you get checked or not - but if you expect them to PAY then it is smart to get regular checkups.

[Mojorabbit]

137. So it is like blackmail

then. How about spending money encouraging people to get their checkups instead of punishing them financially if they don't. What if you have a problem with one test and don't get it but get all the others. If you get sick down the line will this affect your eligibility to get care? I have a severe gut reaction to making anything mandatory when it is in regard to health care. Humans have all kinds of quirks and fears about illness. It is something to be worked out with compassion and education, not financial threats. I am an old school retired nurse and I was taught you do not ever force any treatment on anyone. It is unethical.

[PatSeg]

159. Just want to let you know I've read all your messages here

and want to thank you for your rational comments. I wish more people from the medical profession would weigh in on this plan and bring some common sense to the discussion. One size does not fit all and there clearly are some ethical concerns at play here.

[plusfiftyfive]

140. I think your Dentist and Insurance Company screwed you

And I think the same of the Edwards plan.

It's an attempt to screw Americans with mandatory annual visits, which only 20% of Americans need. The healthy people would clog up the waiting rooms, require hours of doctors' nurses' and lab techs' time... for what purpose??? If 100% of people must get checked out every year, we simply don't have the resources to do it. This idea is a dumb as the rest of Edwards' platform, outrageous liberal wishful thinking that gives the Republicans the White House for another 4 years!

Edwards has just shot himself in both feet with his SUV and medical check-up ideas! That's not the position of an electable candidate!

[ProudDad]

142. Sounds damn fishy

"Now, about the "mandatory" part. As part of the plan, it will be mandatory that you maintain wellness through regular checkups and procedures - in order for the plan to PAY for any necessary medical procedures."

And who, which gatekeepers, which triagers, which cost containment specialists are going to freakin' determine that?

Sounds like the same shit we have now in "new" bottles...

[ProudDad]

141. Preventative care -- I'd sure like to have the option

Edward's plan doesn't give ME the option, but I would sure like to have it...

The Conyers/Kucinich plan does - HR676...

[ProudDad]

143. Don't worry about it

there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of Edward's patchwork quilt passing in Congress.

Edwards should push HR676 -- it's simple, proven to work here and around the world and just one bill to pass...

[Cameron27]

147. Amen, Kucinich is the only one talking sense about healthcare.

[FrenchieCat]

148. What about Christian Scientist who don't believe in doctors?

Will they be exempt, or do they have to go too? :shrug:

Many Christian Scientists do not use medicine or go to doctors; they choose prayer when faced with a personal medical problem, in themselves or their children.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/medical2.htm

[Garbo 2004]

151. Edwards has info on his health plan on his website:

Finally: Individual Responsibility. Once insurance is affordable, everyone will be expected to take responsibility for themselves and their families by obtaining health coverage. Some Americans will obtain coverage from public programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP and others will get coverage through their jobs. Other families can buy insurance through the regional Health Care Markets. Special exemptions will be available in cases of extreme financial hardship or religious beliefs.

http://johnedwards.com/issues/health-care/health-care-fact-sheet/

[iverglas]

150. ya think?

I'm just an ignorant foreigner with nothing to fear, but I don't. I've explained why here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1729074&mesg_id=1729074

Some people will believe ... or say ... just any old thing. And some media outlets are having quite the success saying this one.

[surfermaw]

152. You are trying to tear John Edwards down

I am more intrested in which candidate is receiving republican money to keep them in the race, that might be a good thing to do ...you get my drift. Along with the rest of us.

[surfermaw]

153. What Edwards is offering,

Funny how some of the other candidates people, try to find silly little thing to bash him about, again I am more intrested in which of the three are getting bundles of r epublican money to keep them in the race...

[rinsd]

155. To answer your question, John Edwards is getting plenty of GOP dough from hedge funds (nt)

[rinsd]

156. Well kiss the Edwards campaign good bye.

This is what the GOP use to scare people about "socialized" medicine. Usually they go hyperbolic but we can fight the hyperbole with rational examples.

Edwards just handed them a talking point on a silver platter.

Fuck.

[AtomicKitten]

160. Available and suggested -- not mandatory.

This is what mandatory would do to the Democratic candidate in the GE:

[Mojorabbit]

162. It is what he says

in the video. I hope it was an off the cuff, not thought out statement.

[rinsd]

164. Bingo.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

165. What will be mandated next? Stop smoking? Eat right? Exercise?

Madness!