Brandon Friedman of VoteVets.org: The Moveon ad was "over the top"

[beachmom]

Another great diary by Brandon Friedman (formerly The Angry Rakkasan on Kos) where he talks about David Petraeus, who was his "boss" when he was over there in Iraq:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/11/23754/4895

"Dave and Me"

Read the whole diary for his analysis of General Petraeus. As to the hot button issue of the day, here is his take:

On the MoveOn.org ad

So, how do I feel about the MoveOn.org ad that accuses Petraeus of betraying us? Well, it’s pretty over the top. It’s certainly not what I would have said. In fact, I wish they hadn’t done it. But then, does it make me question my support for MoveOn.org? No. And I’ll tell you why: Yeah, I think they went too far. I think MoveOn crossed a line. But you know what? I’d rather see my allies cross a line being too aggressive rather than never crossing a line because they’re too passive. Or too afraid. I’d rather see Democrats overstep their bounds in going at the throats of the people who brought us this war in the first place. It means they’re angry. It means they care. It means they’re trying to get something done. Did MoveOn go too far? Yeah. But who else right now is willing go after the 28-percenters so aggressively in a full-page ad in the New York Times?

Not many people inside the Beltway, I’ll tell you that.

Brandon echoes my thoughts on the matter, too, and I would say Senator Kerry as well. So now are people going to disparage an Iraq Vet who has worked tirelessly to end this war .... over his opinion on one ad?

[antiimperialist]

1. Joe Lieberman echoes your thoughts too. Don't forget

It sounds cute to say that you agree with Kerry. Tell the whole story. You agree with Lieberman, who also found this ad over the top.
By the way, this vet at the end says, "But who else right now is willing go after the 28-percenters so aggressively in a full-page ad in the New York Times?".
In other words he admits that if it's not Moveon, nobody else will step up to the plate.

[beachmom]

2. No I don't agree with Joe Lieberman one iota. He was shilling

the Republican line that ALL DEMS had to condemn the ad. Screw that noise. If asked, Dems will answer, but we don't grovel to the GOP or GOP lackeys like Joe Lieberman.

The fact that you are trying to disparage Iraq Veterans trying to end the war because they didn't like the language in one ad, is unbelievable.

[antiimperialist]

3. Wow I missed the part where I disparaged the vet

Can you show it to me?
Lieberman echoes your thoughts on this ad, by the way. The fact that he wants all democrats to distance themselves from this ad is not what's being discussed. We are discussing Lieberman's views on the ad himself. Stick to the point.

[Mass]

4. In this other thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3510531&mesg_id=3511875

That vet is being a sissy

Edited on Tue Sep-11-07 08:59 AM by antiimperialist
Having fought in a war does not keep one from being a sissy at a later point in life.

[antiimperialist]

8. Wrong thread. In this thread, I agreed with the vet's last sentence.

And you keep ignoring the fact that he said if not moveon, nobody else would print an ad in the NYT.

[Mass]

10. No, you said you did not disparage the vet in question.

Even if this is a different thread, you disparaged him. I do not ignore anything. I actually did not think the ad was over the top, just poorly framed.

[beachmom]

5. I consider comparing an Iraq Vet to Joe Lieberman disparaging him.

Got that?

Don't put "me" in it. I said I agreed with Brandon and Kerry. We all have the same opinion. And, apparently, we're all "Joe Lieberman". Yeah, whatever.

[antiimperialist]

6. When did I compare the Iraq vet to Lieberman? lol today is not your day

I said Lieberman echoed your thoughts. Are you ok?

[antiimperialist]

7. And you keep repeating he is a vet. This is called the fallacy of "appeal to authority"

Instead of focusing on his words, you focus on the fact that he's a vet, as if this label made him untouchable.
John McCain is a dumb warmonger, by the way. Oops, did I just offend a vet? yes. I did.

[ProSense]

9. Instead of focusing on VoteVets

you're making this about Lieberman. Typical BS!

[antiimperialist]

11. She brought up Kerry. I brought up Lieberman

Fair.

[ProSense]

12. Yeah, especially when it

demonstrates that your argument is nonsense! VoteVets denounced the ad. Period. By accounts posted here yesterday, including yours, that means they are traitors.

[antiimperialist]

13. He made it about Kerry

He said he agreed with Kerry and the votevet. I reminded him that he agreed with Lieberman too.
You have no case.

[ProSense]

14. So VoteVets agrees with Lieberman!

The ad was ill-timed and a distraction, like the one you are trying to create.

[karynnj]

17. First off, beachMOM is not a "he"

Second of all, both Kerry and Votevets made 2 points - they praised the overall work of activists - including Moveon.org AND they said they didn't approve of the ad. I agree with those two sentiments and think that Senator Kerry, in particular, made the point well. It also suggests an easy answer to what is now going on in the Senate. McConnell has introduced a bill to condemn the ad. On a JK group thread, Tay Tay suggests the Democrats - take it and convert it to condemning all ads that smear the service of vets - expanding to cover all the swiftboaters. It would likely sink the resolution.

[beachmom]

29. "Beachmom" = "She". Thank you very much. Um, I mentioned

Kerry because he used the EXACT SAME LANGUAGE in describing the Moveon.org ad as Brandon Friedman.

So if you have a problem with Kerry, then you have a problem with votevets.org.

And none of that crowd said what Lieberman did.

[antiimperialist]

15. Nope, it doesn't mean they are traitors. It means they are wrong about the ad

Your logic is flawed.
Now you are saying that I called them traitors. LMAO

[IA_Seth]

28. Oh geez..

And I bet Bush agrees that the sky is blue too, oh the horror!! I agree with Bush on something!

If Lieberman agrees that this ad was over the top, well I guess I finally agree with ONE thing he says. So shoot me. The ad will rally very few while turning off many, what does that accomplish exactly?

[MH1]

16. K&R - thanks for posting. n/t

[SIMPLYB1980]

18. BLA-BLA-BLA!

Fuck general Betrayus.

[tridim]

19. We all need to go "over the line"..

Otherwise your voice is ignored.

[Raster]

20. There is no more "over the top." All is now fair in stopping this insane trainwreck.

Don't condemn the messenger OR the mode of delivery. SUPPORT THE MESSAGE! Why debate if it's "over the top?" What the hell does that accomplish? NOTHING!

So, how do I feel about the MoveOn.org ad that accuses Petraeus of betraying us? Well, it’s pretty over the top. It’s certainly not what I would have said. In fact, I wish they hadn’t done it. But then, does it make me question my support for MoveOn.org? No. And I’ll tell you why: Yeah, I think they went too far. I think MoveOn crossed a line. But you know what? I’d rather see my allies cross a line being too aggressive rather than never crossing a line because they’re too passive. Or too afraid. I’d rather see Democrats overstep their bounds in going at the throats of the people who brought us this war in the first place. It means they’re angry. It means they care. It means they’re trying to get something done. Did MoveOn go too far? Yeah. But who else right now is willing go after the 28-percenters so aggressively in a full-page ad in the New York Times?

Not many people inside the Beltway, I’ll tell you that.

Wake up America:kick:

[endarkenment]

21. What line?

"I think MoveOn crossed a line"

What line is that? The line is of course left undefined by Brandon Friedman. The line crossed is the line that separates fawning militarism verging on fascism and republican (with a small r) democracy. Each of us, no matter how much fruit salad we have on our lapels, is just a citizen of the republic, no more and no less.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

22. the line of not embarassing certain '08 candidates

[followthemoney]

23. If only Kerry stood up for himself as much as he does for Betray-Us

I would respect him a lot more.

I'm ready to respect Smedley Butler right about now. Is his reincarnation here yet?

[politicasista]

25. Then go pimp the one you lionize at

HIS website rather than slam a Dem that is working hard.

FYI: In case you missed this, Kerry praised the Anit-war activists and appreciated their dedication. He has done work with MoveOn. People that are choosing to focus on the ad and berate the people that condemed it.

http://tank.nationalreview.com/post/?q=N2VmMmY5YjQ3YzZmMTI5ZjU1ZWI1M2ZjMjQ4ODZjYzU=


This is about Bush, HIS war, and accountability, not about Kerry or other Democrats.

[followthemoney]

26. I like your spirit. You are fiesty. You should run for office.

I bet you wouldn't get run over like this crop of Democrats.

I'm pimpin for you, dude.

[frylock]

24. if that ad is considered "over the top," then we are FUCKED..

somebody please explain what was so "over the top" about the ad?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Progressive Friend]

30. Just because Bush is Petraeus' boss, is not a good enough excuse for him peddling Bush's lies