Could this be Biden’s moment on Iraq?

[PatSeg]

<IOUX CITY, Iowa - It seems like this should be Joe Biden’s moment.

The Senate veteran has offered a plan for a decentralized Iraq that pundits and members of Congress increasingly are seeing as perhaps the last chance to salvage the U.S. effort in that country.

Rep. Adam Putnam, a top-ranking House Republican, has recently spoken with some praise for Biden’s plan for a federal Iraq; Putnam even used the same analogy that Biden uses, America’s Articles of Confederation from the 1700s.>

snip

<As he made his pitch to a group of 30 Democrats in a coffee shop in the town of LeMars, a woman named Carrie Kappen, listening to Biden, raised her hand and said, “I want to vote for a president who speaks like you, who looks like you, who will tell it like it is like you. How can we get you to be above Mrs. Clinton and Obama? You need to be number one!”

'Will you marry me?'
“I love you,” Biden quipped. “My wife is down the street, but will you marry me?”>

<"It’s awful hard, understandably, to get above the sort of celebrities,” Biden told the crowd. He said, “It’s a pretty cool thing” that one Democratic presidential contender is an African-American and another is a woman, he noted. But “it sucked all the oxygen out of the air.”

"We’re still in the game here,” the Delaware senator assured the LeMars audience. “Look around the state: I’ve got as many (Iowa) House members that have endorsed me as Hillary has.”>

Good article, more at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20820658/

[1932]

1. When has the west drawing borders in the Middle East ever solved a problem?

[PatSeg]

6. He is not talking about "borders"

"The Plan is not partition.

In fact, it may be the only way to prevent a violent partition - which has already started -- and preserve a unified Iraq. We call for a strong central government, with clearly defined responsibilities for truly common interests like foreign policy and the distribution of oil revenues. Indeed, the Plan provides an agenda for that government, whose mere existence will not end sectarian violence."

* Federalize Iraq in accordance with its constitution by establishing three largely autonomous regions - Shiite, Sunni and Kurd -- with a strong but limited central government in Baghdad
* Put the central government in charge of truly common interests: border defense, foreign policy, oil production and revenues
* Form regional governments -- Kurd, Sunni and Shiite -- responsible for administering their own regions


http://www.joebiden.com/issues/?id=0009

[gateley]

9. I think I heard it compared to the United States -- each state governing

themselves with a federal government overseeing the mint, border protection, etc. As Biden says (paraphrasing) -- enabling the citizens of each area to govern and make decisions for themselves. Imagine that.

Edited to change "boarder" to "border". How embarrassing.

[PatSeg]

10. Actually it was Joe Biden who compared it to our

original "Articles of Confederation".

Yesterday I typed Alan "Greenspace" instead of "Greenspan"! I turned the computer off and went to bed. I have no idea how my mind came up with THAT!

[murbley40]

12. He will not cut off Funds as long as there are troops over there.

I agree with him, if I had a son over there, I would be greatful to him for that.

His son, Beau, who is the Attorney General of Delaware will be deployed to Iraq sometime
in the first of the year.

[PatSeg]

13. Sadly, the sensible answer isn't always the popular one

He has to do what is right, not what is popular.

[ginchinchili]

39. Absolutely. Frankly, I'm tired of politics determining policy

But at the end of the day, Sen. Biden's plan could very well end up being the most popular. Most Americans want out of Iraq, yet most Americans are uncomfortable pulling out all of our troops right away. It is our country that started this mess. We have certain responsibilities. Biden's plan is a responsible plan that will get us out of Iraq.

[babylonsister]

2. No. Let's wait to see how he votes on cutting funding for the war. nt

[PatSeg]

4. His son is going to Iraq

<“I will not cut one single solitary cent of the money that we need to build those vehicles to protect these kids — and they cost billions of dollars.”

Assessing Democratic voters who want to remove all U.S. troops from Iraq immediately, Biden said, “I don’t think it is anywhere near a majority.”

Biden said the benchmark of that sentiment is how senators voted on May 24 on cutting off funds for operations in Iraq.

“I knew what the political vote was — it was to vote ‘no,’” said Biden. “I had bets with my staff that every one of the senators who were running (for president) would vote against it, even though they knew better. I went ahead and voted for the funding.”

How they voted on Iraq funding operations
Obama, Clinton and Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut were among the 14 senators who voted no.

“I was the only one who not only voted for the money, but said it was a moral obligation to do it,” he noted.

When he returned to Iowa after that vote, Biden said, he got standing ovations at every stop. Iowa Democrats “want the war ended, but they know that voting against that money would have done nothing but delay” funds needed for armored vehicles for American troops. >

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20820658/page/2/

[babylonsister]

5. I know that. I also know he's a big supporter of the MRAPs,

which is a good thing. But it's too little, too late. I don't want Biden to be so unbending as to agree to the funding for this war for a political point. Stop it now, fund the removal of troops, including his son, and we won't need MRAPs, people will be with their families, and we can start protecting our country.

[PatSeg]

7. I understand what you're saying

but Bush will keep the troops there and just take money from somewhere else. And while Bush plays his stubborn little game, more and more soldiers and Iraqis will continue to die.

[babylonsister]

8. Same as it ever was. Biden is not necessarily the solution, but I'm very

glad he's a Democrat.

[jillan]

14. Biden will not cut off funding for the troops. As long as there is one

troop on the ground, he will do all he can to ensure their safety.
And while that is not a very popular idea here at DU - it is a more popular view in the 'real world'.

If MRAPs will save 80% of soldier's lives and limbs .... how can anyone cut off the funding for that???
That is what the real question should be.

Cutting off funds will not stop this war. Not as long as bsh is in office.

[PatSeg]

15. That's for sure!

Bush will never admit he's wrong. He will do whatever he can to keep troops in Iraq for as long as possible. Stubborn, stubborn man.

[Steve_in_California]

25. Biden doesn't hide his intentions.

Biden has already said he intends to vote for the funding. To do otherwise would be to place the lives of our troops in even greater danger.

You don't step on the air hose if you want to get a hard-hat diver to come back up to the ship.

[saltpoint]

3. To me it will come down to the sensibilities of Iowa voters. If Biden gains

some traction, and I believe he will, it won't be because he's a whore to the ethanol lobby. It will be because he resonates as an ADULT, as opposed to you-know-who-in-the-Oval-Office-right-now.

And because it's going to take an adult to fish us out of the hellish maelstrom Bush has gotten us into in Iraq.

Biden's quite intelligent but can work a crowd with the folksy touch. There's a toughness to his positions but a sense of welcome and negotiation in his face and words.

Iowans will have to do their own thinking on this, but I see Biden's lights coming on this fall out in the Hawkeye State.

[PatSeg]

11. That is his appeal

"Intelligent....with the folksy touch." He comes across as very real, while being extremely intelligent and knowledgeable. It is a rare combination today in politics. The first time I heard him speak on TV three years ago, he jumped off the TV screen. I had been bombarded by political talking points from both the left and the right and had become numb. Biden was different and in a very good way.

[saltpoint]

16. tsegat01, there sure will be a lot of anti-Biden people on DU thoroughly

discombobulated if Joe rises in the polls this fall.

I still call that he will, and whether he does or not, he's still a damn good man and would make a terrific president.

You'd think people would want to root for someone to be a good leader.

[PatSeg]

17. In its own way DU is sort of a bubble

We tend to assume that other people are as aware of the political landscape as we are, but actually many voters don't know a thing about Joe Biden, good or bad. For these people, Joe Biden will be a new and fresh face if he gets some more exposure.

I see him rising in the polls as well. He is running a unique and underfunded campaign. He has done it before and was successful. Meanwhile, the frontrunners are visible targets and are taking the brunt of the bullets.

[saltpoint]

19. Very solid points. Biden knows this is his final run for the roses.

My guess is he's really, really, really going to make it count.

[PatSeg]

20. I think you're right, yet again

Biden has been told since he was 29 that some day he'd run for president. Though he may not have believed it in his younger days, on some level he probably was preparing for it.

[saltpoint]

21. I hope his fundraising can pick up to where he can compete handsomely in

Iowa and New Hampshire.

I think it will.

I may have to zoom out there and catch some of our good Democrats on the campaign trail. I'm not a groupie but I love to watch the campaign stops on C-Span.

If Biden is going to make his move, it will be in those barber shops and cafes in the Iowa countryside.

I like his chances to contend in Iowa now better than Gephardt's chances at this time in Iowa in 04. And Gephardt was leading.

[PatSeg]

23. This is how he first campaigned for the senate

He did a lot of one-on-one coffees before he even announced he was running. His odds at the time were really poor and he didn't have much cash to work with. He seems to be doing really well with these small gatherings and word of mouth can be powerful.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of voters have not made a definite decision yet and may have concerns about the frontrunners. Biden could be their alternative.

I think his chances are better in Iowa than Gephardt's as well. Gephardt just didn't impress me that much at the time and I didn't see him as the next president.

[saltpoint]

27. Your instincts are just right, which is not a surprise. Gephardt had the

resume'. blond. freckled. tall. plain-spoken. likable.

There wasn't a lot to complain about, but before midnight on the caucus evening, he was just buried alive behind Gov. Dean, John Edwards, and John Kerry. Dean had been a "Howard Who" only months prior. Kerry's campaign was dead in the water and written off. And that spring no one had really even heard of Edwards.

And all three of them whupped Gephardt.

Tonight I'm keeping with my prediction that Senator Clinton finishes no better than third in Iowa behind Edwards and Biden, and more likely fourth behind Joe, John, and Barack, and quite possibly fifth, throwing in a resurgent Gov. Richardson.

A 3rd, 4th, or 5th place finish for Senator Clinton in Iowa pretty much cooks her goose for New Hampshire. She should have skipped Iowa when she had a chance. Her own staff recommended it.

Which is not to say I won't vote for the woman if she's our nominee. But I have my enthusiasms for other candidates.

This Gore person. He's starting to make me feel a bit apprehensive. If he jumps in, the whole field just gets ka-Thwumped overnight.

[PatSeg]

33. And likable wasn't enough

for Gephardt. His jargon was rather old and tired and didn't light a spark with a clearly disillusioned party. When a person's first reaction about a candidate is "he/she seems like a nice person", I tend to worry about their ability to make a wise and informed choice. Damn, that's what people said about GW and look where that got us! (I'm not comparing Gephardt to Bush by any means)

I love Al Gore, but I don't want to see him enter this race. The fact that so many people are hoping that he will jump in and save the day only indicates to me that people aren't totally satisfied with the frontrunners they have to chose from.

[saltpoint]

36. On Gephardt -- yes. He didn't close the deal in Iowa. Of course he got

the vice presidential nomination that year. The New York POST covered the story.

( )

I hear you on Al Gore. I was a Bill Bradley delegate and can still find plenty to respect about Al Gore, but I think our field is good as it is. Gore is far improved as a citizen and candidate from 2000, and I'm sure his veep choice would NOT be Lieberman this time.

I even think he will get in the race.

But I'm happy enough with our field as it's handed to me. And I think there are 4-6 electable presidential candidates in our pack.

It's the Republicans who should be out scavenging for a candidate. They clearly don't have one yet.

[Steve_in_California]

26. Iowa and Joe's home state of Delaware are the same sort of turf.

Joe Biden knows retail politics; and he knows you don't win votes at huge rallies in places like Iowa or Delaware: you win votes a few at a time, just as you said.

[saltpoint]

28. Hi, Steve. You hit a key point in the Iowa campaign. Also it's damned fine

to encounter the name of Mr. Conrad in your signature field.

[Steve_in_California]

29. Many thanks, Old Crusoe.

Conrad is pure genius.

[saltpoint]

31. --and not a word of English until he was 19! Then, kapow -- a string of

masterworks. I'm partial to LORD JIM but love the others. HEART OF DARKNESS is still a very underrated tale.

I consider Conrad's mastery of our language from age 19 next to Bush's mangling of same after lifelong exposure!

[PatSeg]

34. Yep, and the MSM coverage comes afterwards not before

A total reversal of what people are expecting, but I think it is far more effective.

[Debi]

46. Welcome to DU Steve

From and Iowan (so now I kinda like you) :blush:

[JNelson6563]

42. A very accurate description of Biden.

I give it a 10 out of 10. Nice work.

Julie

[calteacherguy]

18. How would he impose this plan on the parties involved? nt

[Steve_in_California]

24. Please read my post below yours.

It explains how "Biden-Gelb" is to be implemented.

[Steve_in_California]

22. Get Behind Biden.

Some people believe you end a war like you end a sentence--with a period. The current Democratic front-runners are being torn between their former positions, i.e. cut off the funding, and what appears to be the newly adopted position of the party leadership, i.e. continue funding only with some sort of timetable for withdrawal. While people may continue to debate the relative merits of those positions, about one thing there can be no debate: unless there is a political solution in Iraq any withdrawal of our forces will only be temporary at best. So, let's dispense with the "feel-good" proposals and get down to brass tacks.

Leadership is not about sticking one's finger in the wind to find a direction. Public opinion polls must be read correctly. What people are really saying is, they want this all to just go away. And, let's be brutually honest, folks: what is going on with the Hillary and Obama and Edwards campaigns is nothing more than "pandering as usual." Not one of them would accept Joe Biden's challenge to answer the only truly relevant question about ending this war---if you withdraw every one of our troops, "what next?"

Silence . . . . Silence from Hillary; silence from Barack; silence from John. They can't answer the question because they have no real plan. All they have is the latest opinion polls.

Biden's plan is real and it has already proven a sterling success in Bosnia. George Bush's insistence on pressuring Iraq to create a central government which is supposed to be able to bring stability to three groups that hate one another was doomed to fail from the start. His goals conflict with the realities and also with the Iraqi Constitution, the backbone of which is a decentralized federalist system.

In Iraq, the vast majority of people regard the United States as an unwelcome occupying force. They call their militias the "resistance." And if it appears that their leaders are taking direction from Washington, those same leaders simply go "BOOM."

The Biden-Gelb plan was so well thought out that Joe Biden and Les Gelb foresaw all this and provided for a mechanism that would allow the leaders of Iraq to save face at home (to say nothing of their lives). Instead of a U.S.-imposed solution, Biden-Gelb provides that the United States convene a conference of the major world powers, the Iraqi's and their neighbors, where the precepts of federalism, already embodied in the Iraqi Constitution, can be approved and agreed to by all concerned. And, if violations occur, it will be the United Nations that will take the lead role in addressing them.

This brilliant plan cuts off any chance for continued aggression from Iran and Syria, who will not be in any position to take on the world, while also giving the Iraqi leaders a politically viable way out, without appearing to cave in to U.S. demands.

If you want to end this war and not see your children and grandchildren going to war in Iraq in the future, get behind Senator Biden and push his campaign to the front of the pack.

[mrigirl]

30. Steve-

Are there more guys in Ca like you??? That actually know and support Biden?? Here on the East coast it's all about Hillary and Obama. I can't watch them anymore, I'm already sick of them!!!
Biden in 2008!!!!

[PatSeg]

37. I'm from California!!!

My grown children support Joe Biden as well and they're not known to keep their opinions to themselves.

[mrigirl]

41. Didn't know that!

I thought you were an East Coaster for some reason. But East and West- we're alot alike!!!!

[PatSeg]

44. Ah, it was probably my Midwestern accent!

Actually, I'm originally from Chicago. We moved here a few years ago.

[jillan]

32. Well said Steve!

[PatSeg]

35. And to Joe Biden's favor,

world leaders would be more willing to listen to him than to Bush. He would bring his credibility and experience with him to the world stage. The world doesn't really hate us. They want to believe we'll do the right thing.

[ginchinchili]

38. Thanks for this post, tsegat01

Though there's a long way to go, it's clear that people are beginning to give Joe Biden the serious consideration he deserves. This is the candidate who could best unite the country and move us forward. His plan for Iraq is the most pragmatic, and pragmatism is what this country sorely needs right now. This is encouraging.

[PatSeg]

40. I tend to be an idealist by nature, but NOT when it comes

to politics. Then the pragmatic side of me dominates and someone on another thread chewed me up big time for expressing the pragmatic reasons I was supporting Joe Biden, rather than Kucinich.

I don't want a president who is like me. I don't have the ability and experience to lead America, but I can recognize someone who can.

[maximusveritas]

43. Biden's problem is that not as many people like him.

It has nothing to do with his race or gender, as he suggests.

It probably has more to do with statments like this:

And he criticizes Obama and former Sen. John Edwards for “playing the populism card, the idea that rich are bad, poor are good, the nobility of America lies in the poor. I think that’s a losing general election argument; I think it’s a losing argument, period.”

He argues, “The rich are as patriotic as the poor, if you ask of them. But what doesn’t work, and what I don’t want to be part of, is this class warfare kind of argument.”

Not to play the Lieberman card, but that kind of talk isn't helpful to the Democratic Party and it cancels out any points he might get for his Iraq plan.

[PatSeg]

45. A lot of people just don't know him

He gets very little media coverage except when he talks about foreign affairs or makes a mistake. Not everyone is on top of politics like the people here.

I think his argument makes sense. A politician can overplay that populist card and turn a lot of people off. Edwards and Biden both come from very humble origins, but Edwards is very wealthy. Biden isn't. He chose public service for 34 years.

[Think82]

47. it isn't helpful to be right?

I think it's a good point.

[Think82]

48. EVERYONE WATCH: SENATE SESSION FRIDAY

They discussed the Biden plan for iraq!

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&cPath=6_12&products_id=201086-1&tID=5&highlight=

EVERYONE WATCH THIS Biden begins speaking after Hutchinson and Brownback make their presentations at 1hr: 48min in the video (which is 5 hrs. long)